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Thread: Is there a firstfruits resurrection of the 144,000?

  1. #61

    Re: Is there a firstfruits resurrection of the 144,000?

    I believe there are distinct harvests and "Firstfruit" (not merely one) note also the 1Cor15:23's "[re: resurrection] but each IN HIS OWN ORDER" (denoting more than one singular one, and also a SEQUENCE to it). Here's something I posted in a different thread/convo (but relates somewhat to the topic of this thread):

    "FIRSTFRUIT" as it pertains to the "144,000" --

    Scripture indicates the following things:

    --Daniel (OT saint) will be "resurrected" at the END of a VERY SPECIFIC set of "days" (which have not yet taken place! Dan12:6-7,1,13 etc)

    --the "many" who came out of the graves after Jesus' resurrection, Scripture informs us specifically [that they] "went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." I believe this was a small picture (actually taking place) that mirrors what will take place at the time of His Second Coming to the earth FOR the commencement of the earthly MK (Matt24:29-31 paralleling Isaiah 27:12-13 as I've mentioned in past posts). ALL "earthly"

    --what Jesus told MM was that HE would "[actively] ascend" [and did so that very day], but He did not take those resurrected OT saints with Him, they went into the holy city (Scripture clearly says), and appeared unto many. Recall that He is TELLING MM of His own [active] ascension, quite early in the day (He "appeared FIRST unto MM" per Mark 16:9)...so we are seeing parallel-timing of events, but occurring in clearly distinctly-separate places (that is, WHILE He is [actively-ascended] in Heaven, THEY are on the earth--And I believe Scripture states "where" they went, for a reason!). For instance, I do not believe it was the "[bodily-]resurrected MANY" that is depicted in the Leviticus 23:10-12 passage [FF/Res Day], but the "A SHEAF, THE SHEAF" and the "AN HE LAMB WITHOUT BLEMISH"



    Somewhat relatedly,
    I've mentioned before the "WITH [G3326 - meta]" word (used in Matt25:10 regarding the "FIVE" virgins) that is distinct from the "WITH [G4862 - syn]" word denoting "UNION"/"IDENTIFICATION" (pertaining to the singular bride/wife... /"ONE BODY" of Christ).


    The "a great multitude... of all the nations" are who were [rather, will be] being preached unto (Matt24:14/26:13) DURING the future [7-yr/70th-Wk] trib, well after "the Church which IS HIS BODY" has been raptured. (The Rapture pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" [ONE BODY and "AS ONE"] at ONE POINT IN TIME. All other saints who have died before the MK commences are "resurrected" FOR it.)


    The 144,000 are "firstfruit" of a distinct "harvest," distinct from that of "the Church which is His body [ONE BODY]"

    _______

    So, in view of that, I believe the 144,000 are "firstfruit" of the WHEAT harvest (the TWO LOAVES; and "baken with leaven" [these are not "the Church which is His body"], per Lev23:17-18, where it similarly states they are "unto the Lord" [like Rev14:4 does (re: the 144,000)],

    ... and that the "a great multitude... of all the nations [/Gentiles]" & the WHEAT of Matt13 [still-living persons at end of trib] & the Sheep of the nations [/Gentiles] of Matt25 [still-living persons at end of trib]... are the rest of THAT harvest: WHEAT.


    "Gather[-ed] into My barn" refers to the earthly MK time period, as "wheat" is harvested by means of a "tribulum" [Daniel 12:12 "BLESSED is he that waiteth and cometh to the 1335 days!" are those who survive to the end of the trib, and enter the earthly MK in mortal bodies capable of reproducing/bearing children--Any believer/saint who died during the trib will be "resurrected" for that [the MK], per Rev20:4, and these will not be capable of reproducing/bearing children but will be like the angels (who don't reproduce)])


    And whereas "WHEAT" is harvested by means of a "tribulum," the earlier harvest is NOT, but instead is harvested by means of "tossing into the air" which separates that which [is not OF the harvest (being "chaff"?), for lack of a better way of putting it, at the moment]


    [and]

    Not all (saints of all times) are the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"... For example, "the guests [PLURAL]" are not the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"... "the 10 [or 5] Virgins/bridesmaids [PLURAL]" are not the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"... the "servants [PLURAL; of that particular future time period (FOLLOWING our Rapture)]" are not "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]... "the FRIEND of the Bridegroom" is not the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" (and JtB died before this point)... There is only ONE [SINGULAR] "Bride/Wife"... and 2Cor11:2 states specifically, "for I have espoused you [plural] to ONE HUSBAND, that I may present [understood 'you'; plural] as A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR] to Christ" (ONE, and "AS ONE"/UNIONED--see also Eph5:30-32; the "G4862 [UNION]" thing! This is not what is happening with the FIVE [nor even 10] VIRGINS [PLURAL; Matt25:10nasb, vv.1-13].)

    _______

    [and]

    "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" is referring to the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth),

    ...and that the Rev19:9 verse ONLY states that the "INVITING" (of the "GUESTS") has been accomplished [aorist] (on the earth, DURING the trib [now concluded in this context]), NOT the SUPPER ITSELF (which, ON THE EARTH, is the inauguration of the earthly MK, commencing upon His "RETURN" there) , and that the wedding FEAST/SUPPER is where the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR] and the Bridegroom are now heading down TO in the Rev19 timing (and where the Gospel accounts [of the "wedding FEAST/SUPPER"] pick up the NEXT scene in the SEQUENCE: His "RETURN" to the earth, FOR "the MEAL"/the "G347" of Matthew 8:11 (and parallel), and Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44, and others... (Matt22:8-14, for example)... None of those ppl will have been "raptured/caught up" (as in removed/a departure) from the earth, they are [still] present on the earth upon His "RETURN" there, at that point in the chronology (His Second Coming to the earth).

  2. #62

    Re: Is there a firstfruits resurrection of the 144,000?

    ^ [to add to the end] yet those mortals who will ENTER the MK time period are indeed "saints".

  3. #63

    Re: Is there a firstfruits resurrection of the 144,000?

    This passage is speaking of "the Church which is His body": "we shall judge angels" 1Cor6:3 [see also v.14, where the second Grk word (the verb referring to us [not Jesus]) is used only ONE other place, and that was (referring to something that was)... FOR a very specific PURPOSE / to a specific END/GOAL]

  4. #64
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    Re: Is there a firstfruits resurrection of the 144,000?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Rev 14

    1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
    2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
    3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
    4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

    A few things to consider....

    1. These 144,000 werer REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH.
    2. They follow the Lamb and are seen with the Lamb on Sion which then would be IN HEAVEN.
    3. They are the ones singing FROM HEAVEN.
    4. This firstfruit harvest in BEFORE Christ returns as 7 vials still need to be poured out upon the earth.

    Conclusion

    The 144,000 are resurrected BEFORE the first resurrection after Christ returns. They are the firstfruits.

    Other thoughts

    1. They follow the Lamb, thus the follow him out from heaven to avenge their blood as his army. The 144,000 are God's army not the church saints (army returns before first resurrection).
    2. The 144,000 are the martys seen in Rev 20:4 already given judgement. Period, they will not fornicate and accept mark and will be virgins.
    3. And the 144,000 alone are the Bride of Christ. Many others are called to the wedding (church).
    The first fruits resurrection occurred in Matthew 27.

    Yeshua resurrected and the graves were opened and many of the OT saints were resurrected. Matthew 27:52-53.

    Yeshua told Mary when she saw Him on the resurrection morning, not to cling to Him or hold Him, for He had not yet ascended to the Father.

    Leviticus 23 describes the procedure for the harvest. The high priest is to take the first fruits of the harvest and present it to YHWH. to do that, the high priest must remain ceremonially pure. He was not to be touched or handled in any way that would defile Him ceremonially.

    Yeshua is our High Priest. He was not to be touched at His resurrection because He had not yet ascended to the Father to present the First Fruits of the Harvest. Yeshua is the first fruits of those that live, but He is not one of the redeemed so He is not the first fruits of the harvest. He is the redeemer and High Priest.

    And while the NT text itself does not state what happened to these resurrected saints, many early church writers who either knew the Apostles or their disciples wrote that these resurrected saints were indeed taken to the Father by Yeshua. We can speculate all we want, but for Jurisprudence standards in the court of Law, those early writers qualify as legitimate source material on the manner.
    Israel.... the Believer's insurance policy!

  5. #65

    Re: Is there a firstfruits resurrection of the 144,000?

    I ran out of gas (I see) in my lengthy post above, to further elaborate on...

    James 1:18 saying "that we should be a kind of firstfruit of his creatures," and...

    some versions have 2 Thessalonians 2:13 translated as "hath chosen you firstfruit"... in this verse, the "has chosen" word is different from the usual "chose" words used, this one being "G138 - heilato / haireo" which Bible Hub states is "Probably akin to airo [G142 - ]" (and keeping in mind all of the passages which speak of the Church which is His body having been buried "with [G4862 - syn - denoting 'UNION' and/ or 'IDENTIFICATION']" Him, and having been raised "with [G4862]" Him...and seated us together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus [that is, with the phrase "seated us together" also having the "G4862" word within it])

  6. #66
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    Re: Is there a firstfruits resurrection of the 144,000?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    The first fruits resurrection occurred in Matthew 27.

    Yeshua resurrected and the graves were opened and many of the OT saints were resurrected. Matthew 27:52-53.
    Nope these saints were resurrected BEFORE Jesus was. They were resurrected at His death and partook of the SAME resurrection as Lazarus and Tabitha etc.

    Yeshua told Mary when she saw Him on the resurrection morning, not to cling to Him or hold Him, for He had not yet ascended to the Father.

    Leviticus 23 describes the procedure for the harvest. The high priest is to take the first fruits of the harvest and present it to YHWH. to do that, the high priest must remain ceremonially pure. He was not to be touched or handled in any way that would defile Him ceremonially.

    Yeshua is our High Priest. He was not to be touched at His resurrection because He had not yet ascended to the Father to present the First Fruits of the Harvest. Yeshua is the first fruits of those that live, but He is not one of the redeemed so He is not the first fruits of the harvest. He is the redeemer and High Priest.
    He is the second Adam, and so IS of the Redeemed, even though He is the Redeemer.
    He is the firstfruits of the Harvest, just as the High Priest waved the firstfruits of the harvest on the day He rose from the dead.

    And while the NT text itself does not state what happened to these resurrected saints, many early church writers who either knew the Apostles or their disciples wrote that these resurrected saints were indeed taken to the Father by Yeshua. We can speculate all we want, but for Jurisprudence standards in the court of Law, those early writers qualify as legitimate source material on the manner.
    Which Early Church Fathers suggested that they rose to Heaven?
    Not one of those saints rose to heaven as far as we know.

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