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Thread: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

  1. #46

    Re: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Don’t be sorry for me bro. I’m going to be on the new earth doing a bit of trout fishing. Can’t wait.
    Yea it will be awesome, even better than the Twizel canals , or are you in the NI?

  2. #47
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    Re: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Now that you've elaborated on what you meant by Trumpet Call for Christians, I agree since no unbeliever will hear it. However, we seem polarised on Matt 24:31. While you posit they are for Jews, my position is that it also refers to the Rapture of the Church. I can understand why you believe it's a call to Israel given that Jesus spoke to his disciples.

    But if you accept that the Olivet Discourse transcends the Jews as it is a cumulative account of worldwide events leading to his Glorious Return, then you'd think twice before making the claim that the trump call is exclusively to gather Israel. You will agree that Matt 24 is not in chronology as we see the events of the Rapture expounded from verses 37-41.
    The Trumpet of Matthew 24:31 must be for the Jews. They are the only ones scattered to the "four winds" and the only ones gathered from the four winds (Jeremiah 49:36, Ezekiel 37:9 and Zechariah 2:6). Christians were never scattered. Added to this, the whole context of Chapter 24:1-30 is Jewish.

  3. #48

    Re: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The Trumpet of Matthew 24:31 must be for the Jews. They are the only ones scattered to the "four winds" and the only ones gathered from the four winds (Jeremiah 49:36, Ezekiel 37:9 and Zechariah 2:6). Christians were never scattered. Added to this, the whole context of Chapter 24:1-30 is Jewish.
    If I can add Joel 2 to this, there is trumpet call before the day of the Lord, ties in with the two trumpets of num 10

    Blow the trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm in my Holy mountain
    For the day of the Lord is coming For it is at hand
    Blow the trumpet in Zion. 15 Gather the people. 16
    For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the Lord has said, Among the remnant whom the Lord calls. verse 32

    The whole chapter needs quoted for context but the point is a trumpet before the 7 yrs to gather and warn Israel, what could be a better warning sign than the church being raptured?

  4. #49
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    Re: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Don’t be sorry for me bro. I’m going to be on the new earth doing a bit of trout fishing. Can’t wait.
    Then you are going to have invite some others to join you. Remember the last time in scripture the resurrected Christ was with us and one of his disciples went fishing?


    Jn 21
    4 But when the day was now breaking, Jesus stood on the beach; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus. 5 So Jesus *said to them, “Children, you do not have any fish, do you?” They answered Him, “No.”

    6 And He said to them, “Cast the net on the right-hand side of the boat and you will find a catch.” So they cast, and then they were not able to haul it in because of the great number of fish. 7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved *said to Peter, “It is the Lord.” So when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put his outer garment on (for he was stripped for work), and threw himself into the sea. 8 But the other disciples came in the little boat, for they were not far from the land, but about one hundred yards away, dragging the net full of fish.
    9 So when they got out on the land, they *saw a charcoal fire already laid and fish placed on it, and bread. 10 Jesus *said to them, “Bring some of the fish which you have now caught.”


    You will not find any bad fish in the net on the NHNE.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder
    Then you are going to have invite some others to join you ...
    You will not find any bad fish in the net on the NHNE.
    When you get your mansion in the new Jerusalem I’ll come and stay on Sundays. When I get my cottage on the side of the river, you can visit me on the week days.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

  6. #51
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    Re: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    When you get your mansion in the new Jerusalem I’ll come and stay on Sundays. When I get my cottage on the side of the river, you can visit me on the week days.
    Well I do like some fesh and cheps


    Ive got plenty of spuds and those New earth continental cucumbers that I will pickle for the tartare sauce. Ive got the sides covered.

    I much prefer a cottage outside the city
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    If I can add Joel 2 to this, there is trumpet call before the day of the Lord, ties in with the two trumpets of num 10

    Blow the trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm in my Holy mountain
    For the day of the Lord is coming For it is at hand
    Blow the trumpet in Zion. 15 Gather the people. 16
    For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the Lord has said, Among the remnant whom the Lord calls. verse 32

    The whole chapter needs quoted for context but the point is a trumpet before the 7 yrs to gather and warn Israel, what could be a better warning sign than the church being raptured?
    I understand Joel 2 to be the warning of the approaching Assyrians. But it does show how many different trumpets have sounded for Israel alone.

  8. #53
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    Re: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

    I see Joel chapter two the same as the fifth trumpet in revelation chapter 9 the 5 month time span of the locus the Roman army attacking Jerusalem in 70AD. The lifespan of a locus is 5 months the same time that the siege lasted.

    See the resemblance?

    Joel 2:4
    4They have the appearance of horses;

    Revelation 9:7-8
    7The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. 8
    they gallop along like cavalry.

    Joel 2:25
    “I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten—
    the great locust and the young locust,
    the other locusts and the locust swarm[b]
    my great army that I sent among you.

    Revelation 9:3
    3 And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.

    Peter did say that his days were the days of Joel chapter two

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    Re: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The Trumpet of Matthew 24:31 must be for the Jews. They are the only ones scattered to the "four winds" and the only ones gathered from the four winds (Jeremiah 49:36, Ezekiel 37:9 and Zechariah 2:6). Christians were never scattered. Added to this, the whole context of Chapter 24:1-30 is Jewish.
    Incorrect - the Christians were most certainly scattered and when they scattered they took the gospel to the nations as they hadn't before.

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    Re: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    If I can start here, this pretty much seems to be your main point, I know it appears a contradiction to you yet it causes no problem for me, Its just like the differences in the gospel, if I said in one account there is only one angel outside the tomb and in another there is two angels outside the empty tomb, you will note the difference and harmonise it, for as you say scripture does not contradict.
    But what I could not do is say ONLY 1 angel is outside the tomb and harmonise with there being 2.
    This is the difference, you CANNOT harmonise a TOTAL which is 1/3rd with another total which is ALL.

    As you keep repeating 1/3 cannot mean a whole to me, it really has about the same effect as if you were trying to tell me one angel does not mean two so they were at different times or at different tombs, yet and this is why I love studying the gospels for scripture does this continually it has apparent contradictions (differences) to attract our attention to cause deeper study and find out things that are written for our learning.
    I agree we do need to study deeper. However the trumpets and the vials are different effects, with only the theme - earth, sea rivers being the same.

    And I still consider the possibility that your right, its just this point doesnt have any bearing on it for me.
    I get why you say that, but I hope that you understand why I see a difference between the two.
    When God says it will be 1260 days for something it does not mean 1290 days for that same thing. Instead there is something else with those extra 30 days etc.
    When God says that 1/3 will die, and then elsewhere says all will die, then it means that there is something MORE which has happened to make the difference.

    What I mean is from the sounding 6th trumpet you have the time frame for it being 1260 days, so if you see it as only effecting those that don't have the seal of God, and the first vial only effects those with the mark of the beast, therefore I can deduce you must have the 6th trumpet at least 3 and a half years before to finish before the first bowl judgment, So I can also guess that you see the GT as a lot less than 3 1/2 years otherwise for example you would have to have the 6th trumpet beginning at the start of the 7 year period, to make the bowls have 1260 days of wrath, sorry I have a bad memory I for some reason thought you were of the view the GT was 1260 days now im thinking you have less?
    No, from the 6th trumpet to the 7th is more than 1260 days.
    The time of the 2W is only 1260 days, but the actual period is longer than that.
    The GT is from the 7th trumpet which is for 42 months.
    The 6th trumpet is finished BEFORE the 1st vial, which is AFTER the 7th trumpet.
    The 6th trumpet is shortly before the final 7 years. It runs fro the first half of that week. It ends with the deaths of the 2W and the AC being revealed.
    It is then the 7th trumpet and the start of the GT which lasts for 42 months.
    So the 7 vials are over that period of roughly 3.5 years.

    This is what I really want to know, how is this so?
    OK - for starters the 5th trumpet we are told lasts 5 months, the 6th trumpet lasts more than 1260 days and the 7th trumpet lasts 42 months.
    Add those 3 trumpets periods together and you have MORE than 7 years.
    This is excluding the first four trumpets and excluding seals and vials.
    So even if you have all the seals and the vials as the same period of time as the trumpets you don't have a long enough period.
    This is why pre-trib then has to make the events of the 6th trumpet - the 2W - and that of the 7th -the beasts rule - overlap to remove some of the time.
    In fact it requires playing around with timings to try to fit things in.
    However if you are NOT restricted for everything to be in 7 years, but simply have the GT last 42 months of the beast's rule and a previous 3.5 years before that when he comes on the scene to make the agreement with many, then you can take the chronology as stated in Revelation as one trumpet after the other, whic is the straight forward way to read it.

  11. #56
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    Re: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Incorrect - the Christians were most certainly scattered and when they scattered they took the gospel to the nations as they hadn't before.
    I'll let my posting stand. The verses I gave show Israel "scattered to the four winds" and recovered from there. Except for the persecution in Jerusalem that scattered the Church, the a FEW of the Church that have gone the nations with the gospel did it VOLUNTARILY in obedience. That is not "scattering" as Israel are because of the curses of a broken Law.
    Leviticus 26:33; "And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste."
    See also Deuteronomy 4:27, 28:64, 30:3, 32:26.

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    Re: The 7th trumpet, rapture please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I'll let my posting stand. The verses I gave show Israel "scattered to the four winds" and recovered from there. Except for the persecution in Jerusalem that scattered the Church, the a FEW of the Church that have gone the nations with the gospel did it VOLUNTARILY in obedience. That is not "scattering" as Israel are because of the curses of a broken Law.
    Leviticus 26:33; "And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste."
    See also Deuteronomy 4:27, 28:64, 30:3, 32:26.
    I agree that the Christian scattering in the early church by itself is not sufficient.
    However why were they scattered? Due to persecution.
    What are we told two verses prior:
    Mat 24:29* “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

    We have great tribulation on the Church, and so the Church will be scattered fleeing persecution even as they were at the start of the Church, so too at the end.
    In contrast the Jews will NOT be scattered, they will either be taken or they will be in the wilderness being nourished by God.

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