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Thread: why God makes agreement

  1. #1
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    why God makes agreement

    why did God make this agreement with man?

    Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
    Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
    Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    did the man agree, and if he did, by what did he agree?
    Let there be Light

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    why did God make this agreement with man?

    Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
    Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
    Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    did the man agree, and if he did, by what did he agree?
    I think that it was not an agreement. It was a "Command". It was God's right, as God, Maker and Owner of man to demand what He wanted. Moreover, the goodness of God is displayed in this command. He really warned Man of a danger. Look at the world, and humankind today. What we see around us is fruit of that Tree. Oh that we would believe God and obey Him.

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I think that it was not an agreement. It was a "Command". It was God's right, as God, Maker and Owner of man to demand what He wanted. Moreover, the goodness of God is displayed in this command. He really warned Man of a danger. Look at the world, and humankind today. What we see around us is fruit of that Tree. Oh that we would believe God and obey Him.
    nope you are way incorrect:

    Exo 34:28* And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


    don't you get that those who disobey disagree? did A&E agree to the command or better said covenant which is an agreement. its not what you think, its what the bible says it is.
    Let there be Light

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    nope you are way incorrect:

    Exo 34:28* And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


    don't you get that those who disobey disagree? did A&E agree to the command or better said covenant which is an agreement.
    Why did you ask a question about a verse in Genesis and then try to "prove" it by citing a verse in Exodus that has nothing to do with the verse in Genesis?
    • The Genesis passage is a command, pure and simple. No covenant, no agreement, no "the party of the first part and the party of the second part".
    • The Exodus passage IS about a covenant.
      • Exodus 20 = Moses comes down from the mountain and orally recites the 10 commandments.
      • The people agree and in chapter 24 70 men go up the mountain, see God, and have a covenant meal sealing the deal.
      • Exodus 34 = Moses goes BACK up the mountain to get the stone tablets.



    Adam and Eve had no covenant.

    Moses and the Israelites did.
    ".....it's your nickel"

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    nope you are way incorrect:

    Exo 34:28* And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


    don't you get that those who disobey disagree? did A&E agree to the command or better said covenant which is an agreement. its not what you think, its what the bible says it is.
    I do not know what the Ten Commandments have to do with the COMMAND not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. But the Bible says that God "COMMANDED" Adam and Eve.

    There is no verses that says Adam and Eve "agreed". There is no verses that God made an "agreement" with them. As you have wisely said, let us stick ONLY to what the Bible says.

    Israel agreed to keep the commandments and then promptly broke them (Exodus 19:8, 24:3).

    So yes. Let us stick to what the Bible says.

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I do not know what the Ten Commandments have to do with the COMMAND not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. But the Bible says that God "COMMANDED" Adam and Eve.

    There is no verses that says Adam and Eve "agreed". There is no verses that God made an "agreement" with them. As you have wisely said, let us stick ONLY to what the Bible says.

    Israel agreed to keep the commandments and then promptly broke them (Exodus 19:8, 24:3).

    So yes. Let us stick to what the Bible says.
    the bible says that commandment in reference to God is a covenant demonstrated in Exodus 34:28. scripturally God's commandments are covenants. its common knowledge that the commandment given to Adam is a covenant. didn't you know that?

    His Word isn't a request, its a command, and Jesus is the Word of God made flesh that is the everlasting covenant, isn't He?
    Let there be Light

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    Why did you ask a question about a verse in Genesis and then try to "prove" it by citing a verse in Exodus that has nothing to do with the verse in Genesis?
    • The Genesis passage is a command, pure and simple. No covenant, no agreement, no "the party of the first part and the party of the second part".
    • The Exodus passage IS about a covenant.
      • Exodus 20 = Moses comes down from the mountain and orally recites the 10 commandments.
      • The people agree and in chapter 24 70 men go up the mountain, see God, and have a covenant meal sealing the deal.
      • Exodus 34 = Moses goes BACK up the mountain to get the stone tablets.



    Adam and Eve had no covenant.

    Moses and the Israelites did.

    FYI
    in reference to God His command is a covenant demonstrated in Exodus 34:28. scripturally God's commandments are covenants. its common knowledge that the commandment given to Adam is a covenant. God's Word isn't a request, its a command, and Jesus is the Word of God made flesh that is the everlasting covenant.


    but you should reread Exodus Moses went the first time and received the stone tablets w/commandments and then threw them after he return to the people the second time Moses cut out the tablet as instructed by God and toke them up the mountain and the tablets were written on as said in 34:28 which we know as the ten commandments said in scripture that are also a covenant.
    Let there be Light

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    I have read and re-read Exodus. I've taught it verse by verse more than once. I'm not a genius and I do make mistakes, as I was in error about one thing. [going from faulted memory]. It was God who gave the 10 commandments orally first to the people, not Moses as I said. Moses did recite them, but he was second [and third] before the tablets.

    The point is, there was a definite covenant made between God and his people. It involves much transaction - the party of the first part agrees this and then the party of the second part agrees that. Then this action is taken and that action is taken.

    Just look at the details here establishing a covenant!

    Exodus 19, 20, and 24 [There's a LOT of going up and down the mountain for Moses - several times]

    • God lays out the covenant for Moses to tell the people: "Obey me and keep the covenant and you will be my special people". The people agree.
    • God tells Moses to tell the people to get ready because he is going to speak to them personally from the mountain with more specific details of the covenant. The people obey.
    • God gives the 10 commandments to the people orally. It terrifies them and they ask Moses to be the go-between.
    • God tells Moses to bring himself and 71 other men up the mountain. Before Moses does that, he goes back down the mountain, orally recites everything God has said so far. The people agree in one accord to obey and Moses writes down everything God has said so far.
    • Then they make an altar, sacrifice animals, and Moses sprinkles the altar with blood.
    • Moses reads the Book of the Covenant he copied down one more time and the people agree and he sprinkles the people with blood.
    • He tells the people that this blood of the blood of God's covenant.
    • Then God takes the 72 men who partially up the mountain, saw God, God did not strike them dead the Bible says, and they ate a covenant meal confirming it all.
    • Lastly, God calls Moses up to give them the stone tablets. Aaron and Hur are left in charge of the people


    That's what a covenant entails.
    ".....it's your nickel"

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    nope you are way incorrect:

    Exo 34:28* And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
    The Hebrew text says "ten statements" not "ten commandments".

    More importantly, God made a covenant with the Hebrews at Sinai. A covenant requires two parties, who are agreeing to the terms. In contrast, God didn't make or expect any agreement in the garden. He gave an order. That's it.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    scripturally God's commandments are covenants.
    No. God made a covenant with a specific people. The terms of the covenant was upholding God's commandments.


    its common knowledge that the commandment given to Adam is a covenant.
    "Common knowledge" by who? It was a single command, not a covenant.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    That's what a covenant entails.
    Interesting side point that I only learned recently. In the ancient world in the middle east, covenants took the form of identifying the party or parties, the reason for the covenant, and finally the terms. The ten "commandments" (as I said, "ten statements" in Hebrew) actually follow this form. First, the party: "I am the Lord your God". Second, the reason for the contract: "Who brought you forth from the land of Egypt, from a house of bondage". And then, finally, the terms: "Therefore, you shall have no other gods before Me, etc"
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    the bible says that commandment in reference to God is a covenant demonstrated in Exodus 34:28. scripturally God's commandments are covenants. its common knowledge that the commandment given to Adam is a covenant. didn't you know that?

    His Word isn't a request, its a command, and Jesus is the Word of God made flesh that is the everlasting covenant, isn't He?
    OK. Let's clear up any confusion the easy way. For these four statements above by you, can you post two verses for each statement that say this. God requires two witnesses to establish anything, so please give two verses that state ...
    1. the bible says that commandment in reference to God is a covenant
    2. scripturally God's commandments are covenants
    3. its common knowledge that the commandment given to Adam is a covenant
    4. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh that is the everlasting covenant

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    OK. Let's clear up any confusion the easy way. For these four statements above by you, can you post two verses for each statement that say this. God requires two witnesses to establish anything, so please give two verses that state ...
    1. the bible says that commandment in reference to God is a covenant
    2. scripturally God's commandments are covenants
    3. its common knowledge that the commandment given to Adam is a covenant
    4. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh that is the everlasting covenant
    na you look it up your self if you're not that familiar with scripture, or you don't think what I stated is true. the subject is about why God seeks or requires covenant with man.



    but for those who do care one can start here:

    Heb 13:20* Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,*

    which reffers to:
    Joh 1:1* In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    Joh 1:3* All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.*
    Joh 1:4* In him was life; and the life was the light of men.*
    Joh 1:5* And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.*
    Joh 1:6* There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.*
    Joh 1:7* The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.*
    Joh 1:8* He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.*
    Joh 1:9* That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.*
    Joh 1:10* He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.*
    Joh 1:11* He came unto his own, and his own received him not.*
    Joh 1:12* But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:*
    Joh 1:13* Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.*
    Joh 1:14* And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.*


    plus there is
    Deu_4:13* And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

    Gal 3:17* And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.*

    Heb_9:4* Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
    Let there be Light

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    plus there is
    Deu_4:13* And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
    I don't know why you keep bringing this up. Yes, that was a covenant. It even has the word "covenant" in the text. The word "covenant" doesn't appear in the creation saga however, so one has no reason to conclude that there was any covenant.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    I don't know why you keep bringing this up. Yes, that was a covenant. It even has the word "covenant" in the text. The word "covenant" doesn't appear in the creation saga however, so one has no reason to conclude that there was any covenant.
    read the postings: you know follow the conversation, if you're going to comment on it. some here argue that what the bible says isn't what it means.

    when God gives His Word, in His case speaks it, because He is God, its a covenant that He will keep and see it to its fulfillment. commandment or not. hence God's Word is good and He's good for it.
    Let there be Light

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