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Thread: why God makes agreement

  1. #16
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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    read the postings: you know follow the conversation, if you're going to comment on it. some here argue that what the bible says isn't what it means.
    Yah, I've been following it. Thanks.

    when God gives His Word, in His case speaks it, because He is God, its a covenant
    Uhh no it's not. A "covenant" is an agreement between two parties. Sinai was a "covenant" because the two parties (God and the Israelites) agreed. Adam and Eve in Eden wasn't a "covenant" because God gave an order and that was it.

    This is basic reading comprehension and shouldn't even be elevated to a topic of bible discussion in the first place.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  2. #17
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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    na you look it up your self if you're not that familiar with scripture, or you don't think what I stated is true. the subject is about why God seeks or requires covenant with man.



    but for those who do care one can start here:

    Heb 13:20* Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,*

    which reffers to:
    Joh 1:1* In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    Joh 1:3* All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.*
    Joh 1:4* In him was life; and the life was the light of men.*
    Joh 1:5* And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.*
    Joh 1:6* There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.*
    Joh 1:7* The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.*
    Joh 1:8* He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.*
    Joh 1:9* That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.*
    Joh 1:10* He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.*
    Joh 1:11* He came unto his own, and his own received him not.*
    Joh 1:12* But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:*
    Joh 1:13* Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.*
    Joh 1:14* And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.*


    plus there is
    Deu_4:13* And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

    Gal 3:17* And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.*

    Heb_9:4* Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
    I thought that you wouldn't post the verses. There are none. The whole idea is from your mind. This Forum is for discussion the Bible. You should have relished the idea of posting scripture. Instead you post a verse from Hebrews and connect to John Chapter 1 with no explanation.

  3. #18

    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    why did God make this agreement with man?

    Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
    Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
    Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    did the man agree, and if he did, by what did he agree?
    If the man did not agree then its not a covenant as per your definition.

    While your unsubstantiated argument that this was an agreement/covenant has been way discredited, would you please get to the 'why' part.

    I'll bite. Why did God make this 'agreement' with Man?

    Further, I don't understand what you mean "by what did he agree?"

  4. #19
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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by GratefulGreg View Post
    If the man did not agree then its not a covenant as per your definition.

    While your unsubstantiated argument that this was an agreement/covenant has been way discredited, would you please get to the 'why' part.

    I'll bite. Why did God make this 'agreement' with Man?

    Further, I don't understand what you mean "by what did he agree?"
    opinions are not a discredit just opinions the opinions have no proof of their opinions just a miss guided consensus. the truth's proof isn't a vote of opinions. remember the Truth and its chosen are a very small minority.



    anyway:

    when God made Adam, Adam was not in the garden nor did God have any covenant that is recorded with Adam.

    Gen 2:7* And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.*
    Gen 2:8* And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.*...........
    Gen 2:15* And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.*

    then there was a covenant between the man and the Lord God


    note that Adam didn't speak up and say something to the effect no I will not stay in this garden at that risk. if Adam didn't stay in the garden he wouldn't have eaten of the tree nor would there be a covenant agreed to.


    a lame example would be if you enter some country other than your own you by default would be agreeing to their laws which would include any law that would result in the punishment of death.

    even in the day of Moses the Lord God required the people via their leaders to agree to His covenant with them.

    Adam could have not agreed but once he did he was held to the agreement.


    and therein is what most call "morals" lie. if one is faithful to the agreement them one is faithful to whom one is in agreement with. hence God is always requiring the faithful. and the truth is, one can't be faithful to some one without a agreement.
    Let there be Light

  5. #20
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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    read the postings: you know follow the conversation, if you're going to comment on it. some here argue that what the bible says isn't what it means.

    when God gives His Word, in His case speaks it, because He is God, its a covenant that He will keep and see it to its fulfillment. commandment or not. hence God's Word is good and He's good for it.
    God commanded there be light, and there was light. Did the light "obey God?" Did God "covenant" with the light to see if the light would agree to exist? No, and neither did Man "agree" to exist as man, and to function as man. I believe God's word to man does involve agreements. However, part of God's word was simply to create Man and set the conditions for his existence. And some of God's word is to effect a relationship. The relationship does not seem to have achieved "covenant stage" until after the Fall, because the purpose of covenants seems to be to determine who will agree with God and who will not, when men will agree with God and when they will not.

    I think it's safer to simply recognize "covenants" when they are stated as such, instead of assuming they exist every time God makes a conditional statement with respect to Man. Less confusion that way?

  6. #21
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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    God commanded there be light, and there was light. Did the light "obey God?" Did God "covenant" with the light to see if the light would agree to exist? No, and neither did Man "agree" to exist as man, and to function as man. I believe God's word to man does involve agreements. However, part of God's word was simply to create Man and set the conditions for his existence. And some of God's word is to effect a relationship. The relationship does not seem to have achieved "covenant stage" until after the Fall, because the purpose of covenants seems to be to determine who will agree with God and who will not, when men will agree with God and when they will not.

    I think it's safer to simply recognize "covenants" when they are stated as such, instead of assuming they exist every time God makes a conditional statement with respect to Man. Less confusion that way?
    well to be technical God said "let there be light" and after He did there was still darkness because He divided one from the other. so you tell me did something obey and did something not obey? seeing that in the physical darkness cannot resist the presence of light.

    but this OP is about why God requires agreement with man so the statements made on my part would be about that subject wouldn't it? most who seek to pervert scripture and its meaning, take what is said out of context. why are you doing the same here with the subject at hand?
    Let there be Light

  7. #22
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    Re: why God makes agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    well to be technical God said "let there be light" and after He did there was still darkness because He divided one from the other. so you tell me did something obey and did something not obey? seeing that in the physical darkness cannot resist the presence of light.

    but this OP is about why God requires agreement with man so the statements made on my part would be about that subject wouldn't it? most who seek to pervert scripture and its meaning, take what is said out of context. why are you doing the same here with the subject at hand?
    I was just agreeing with those who said that divine commandments do not constitute covenants with Man. Creating Man is not a covenant, although covenants followed. Commanding Man to do certain things was not always conditional on Man's obedience.

    But I understand what you're trying to say, that God made Man to exist in relationship with Himself. And thus, we call these things today "covenants," because they involve human choice to obey or not obey.

    I make an issue because it gets confusing unless we're actually dealing with things that God calls "covenants." That's my main point. We should talk about "covenants" when they are referred to as such in the Scriptures.

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