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Thread: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

  1. #31
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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Not a cleansed temple, but a new temple. It is the Temple which is in the NJ - the throne room of God.
    Oh. the NJ doesn't have a temple.
    Revelation 21:22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
    He gives a reason for not seeing the temple, the reason was not due to a restricted viewing angle, but due to no need for one, God is the temple.

  2. #32
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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The Temple will NOT be cleansed and rededicated, for when Jesus returns is when the NJ comes out of heaven to earth.
    There is NO temple made by Man in the NJ, but ONLY the throne room of God, of which the earthly temple was but a shadow.


    No it doesn't confuse the issue. The Rapture happens very quickly. Notice that they are gathered to Jesus and meet Him in the clouds, so it is WITHIN the period of time of Him leaving heaven to come to the earth and BEFORE He gets to the earth.
    Therefore clearly NOT taking 75 days.
    You are in flat denial of 2 Thessalonians 2:4, where Paul plainly states the Anti-Christ will sit in the Temple, thereby desecrating it.
    The New Jerusalem does not come to earth until after the Millennium. Revelation 22:1-7

    The 75 days between the Return of Jesus and the rededication of the Temple, has nothing to do with the gathering of His faithful people to Him. As per Matthew 24:30-31. Those people will meet Him in the clouds, then go to be with Jesus as His priests and rulers during the Millennium. Rev 5:9-10


    Thanks Durbandude, the new Temple is well described by Ezekiel in chapters 40-46. It will be built BEFORE Jesus Returns. Zechariah 6:15

  3. #33
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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    You are in flat denial of 2 Thessalonians 2:4, where Paul plainly states the Anti-Christ will sit in the Temple, thereby desecrating it.
    The New Jerusalem does not come to earth until after the Millennium. Revelation 22:1-7
    Nope, I have NOT denied that the AC will sit in the Temple.
    I am simply highlighting that the temple the AC sits in is NOT the place where Jesus will sit when He reigns on earth.

    The 75 days between the Return of Jesus and the rededication of the Temple, has nothing to do with the gathering of His faithful people to Him. As per Matthew 24:30-31. Those people will meet Him in the clouds, then go to be with Jesus as His priests and rulers during the Millennium. Rev 5:9-10
    There is NO greater blessing than being with Jesus.
    The Blessing is stated to occur on the 1335th day, so therefore that would be the Day of Jesus' return.
    It also would NOT take 75 days to cleanse a temple even IF that was in view.

    Thanks Durbandude, the new Temple is well described by Ezekiel in chapters 40-46. It will be built BEFORE Jesus Returns. Zechariah 6:15
    The temple describe in Ezekiel is NOT built by man.
    Zech 6:15 happened a long time ago when the Second Temple was built.
    Zec 6:11* Take from them silver and gold, and make a crown, and set it on the head of Joshua, the son of Jehozadak, the high priest.
    Notice It is Joshua, the son of Jehozadak who is involved in this building.

    Ezr 3:2* Then arose Jeshua the son of Jozadak, with his fellow priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel with his kinsmen, and they built the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings on it, as it is written in the Law of Moses the man of God.

    Jeshua and Joshua is the SAME person.
    Jozadak and Jehozadak is the SAME person.

    The key is seen here:
    Ezr 5:1* Now the prophets, Haggai and Zechariah the son of Iddo, prophesied to the Jews who were in Judah and Jerusalem, in the name of the God of Israel who was over them.*
    Ezr 5:2* Then Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel and Jeshua the son of Jozadak arose and began to rebuild the house of God that is in Jerusalem, and the prophets of God were with them, supporting them.

    The fulfillment of Zechariah's prophecy was back then.

  4. #34
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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Oh. the NJ doesn't have a temple.
    Revelation 21:22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
    He gives a reason for not seeing the temple, the reason was not due to a restricted viewing angle, but due to no need for one, God is the temple.
    Sorry, but you are RIGHT and you are WRONG.
    The NJ does NOT have a temple made by Man.

    However Jesus entered a temple NOT MADE by Human hands.
    This temple is also known as the throne room of God:

    The Throne Room of God is where the River of Life flows from:
    Rev 22:1* Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

    In Ezekiel's vision this is the Temple.
    So DOES Revelation tell us that the Throne Room of God is the SAME as the Temple of God?
    Yes it does repeatedly:
    Rev 8:3* And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne,*
    Rev 8:4* and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.*

    Rev 11:19* Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

    Rev 15:5* After this I looked, and the sanctuary of the tent of witness in heaven was opened,*
    Rev 15:6* and out of the sanctuary came the seven angels with the seven plagues, clothed in pure, bright linen, with golden sashes around their chests.

    Hebrews tells the same thing.
    So there is no EARTHLY or Human temple, nothing between Man and God, instead His very throne is now in the NJ, the Temple in heaven is now on earth.

  5. #35
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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Sorry, but you are RIGHT and you are WRONG.
    The NJ does NOT have a temple made by Man.

    However Jesus entered a temple NOT MADE by Human hands.
    This temple is also known as the throne room of God:

    The Throne Room of God is where the River of Life flows from:
    Rev 22:1* Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

    In Ezekiel's vision this is the Temple.
    So DOES Revelation tell us that the Throne Room of God is the SAME as the Temple of God?
    Yes it does repeatedly:
    Rev 8:3* And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne,*
    Rev 8:4* and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.*

    Rev 11:19* Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

    Rev 15:5* After this I looked, and the sanctuary of the tent of witness in heaven was opened,*
    Rev 15:6* and out of the sanctuary came the seven angels with the seven plagues, clothed in pure, bright linen, with golden sashes around their chests.

    Hebrews tells the same thing.
    So there is no EARTHLY or Human temple, nothing between Man and God, instead His very throne is now in the NJ, the Temple in heaven is now on earth.
    Sorry. No matter who made the Ezekiel temple it is described as a physical building with precise measurements yet Revelation says that there is no need for a temple in the NJ because God is the temple.

    Your verses prove that there is a temple in heaven after the second coming, sure. Ezekiel proves that there is also a temple on earth after the second coming from which a river flows.

    Then Rev 21 proves that in future there will be no temple required because God is the temple. All this indicates that there will be a period of two temples (one in heaven, and one on earth) and then later on there will be a period of no temples (when the NJ comes to earth, no temple is needed)
    22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple

  6. #36
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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Sorry. No matter who made the Ezekiel temple it is described as a physical building with precise measurements yet Revelation says that there is no need for a temple in the NJ because God is the temple.
    When God's throne room comes to earth will it be PHYSICAL or not?
    The FACT a place is PHYSICAL is not a problem.

    Your verses prove that there is a temple in heaven after the second coming, sure. Ezekiel proves that there is also a temple on earth after the second coming from which a river flows.

    Then Rev 21 proves that in future there will be no temple required because God is the temple. All this indicates that there will be a period of two temples (one in heaven, and one on earth) and then later on there will be a period of no temples (when the NJ comes to earth, no temple is needed)
    22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple
    No, Rev 21 does NOT prove what you are claiming.
    What Rev 21 proves is that a CERTAIN temple is no longer around.
    The throne room of God IS the temple.
    If you could prove that the Throne Room of God is NOT the Temple of God, THEN you would have proof that there is NO Temple (of any form or description).
    IOW John is reporting about the SHADOW not being there because the REALITY is there.

    It is 100% certain that the Throne Room of God IS in the NJ in the NHNE.
    Further it is 100% certain that the Throne Room of God IS the Temple of God - as shown from Revelation and other books.
    THEREFORE it is also 100% CERTAIN that there IS a Temple in the NJ.
    What you (and most) need to understand is that John is speaking concerning a place you come to where you meet a priest who intercedes for you to God, yet in the NJ there is no longer this need. There is NO Temple built by Man in the NJ. God will be dwelling in the NJ and His Throne Room, where He sits and reigns from IS that SAME place, the Temple of God.

    Simply quoting a verse, without recognising that there are DIFFERENT usges of a word and POVs about a word is unhelpful.

    The same is true about "sea", which speaks about "nations" and also speaks about a place where dead souls are, and speaks of the crystal sea before the throne, and speaks of a body of water in one place. Rev 21 does NOT speak of a lack of bodies of water, or the removal of seas, but about the change of Kingdoms.

  7. #37
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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    When God's throne room comes to earth will it be PHYSICAL or not?
    The FACT a place is PHYSICAL is not a problem.


    No, Rev 21 does NOT prove what you are claiming.
    What Rev 21 proves is that a CERTAIN temple is no longer around.
    The throne room of God IS the temple.
    If you could prove that the Throne Room of God is NOT the Temple of God, THEN you would have proof that there is NO Temple (of any form or description).
    IOW John is reporting about the SHADOW not being there because the REALITY is there.

    It is 100% certain that the Throne Room of God IS in the NJ in the NHNE.
    Further it is 100% certain that the Throne Room of God IS the Temple of God - as shown from Revelation and other books.
    THEREFORE it is also 100% CERTAIN that there IS a Temple in the NJ.
    What you (and most) need to understand is that John is speaking concerning a place you come to where you meet a priest who intercedes for you to God, yet in the NJ there is no longer this need. There is NO Temple built by Man in the NJ. God will be dwelling in the NJ and His Throne Room, where He sits and reigns from IS that SAME place, the Temple of God.

    Simply quoting a verse, without recognising that there are DIFFERENT usges of a word and POVs about a word is unhelpful.

    The same is true about "sea", which speaks about "nations" and also speaks about a place where dead souls are, and speaks of the crystal sea before the throne, and speaks of a body of water in one place. Rev 21 does NOT speak of a lack of bodies of water, or the removal of seas, but about the change of Kingdoms.
    You say "The throne room of God IS the temple". You are stretching it to say that a ROOM is the temple. I fail to see anything in your proof verses of POST 34 that conclude that the throne room is the temple. In Rev 21 the verse says And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass. But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
    The city has no need for a temple because God is the temple.( no mention of a "throne room"). No matter how much you try to make it fit, neither the Ezekiel temple nor the Rev 11 temple can be in the NJ, which has no temple. The NJ must therefore come later than those other two temples.

    After the DOTL, I see a future world described in Ezekiel 40-48 complete with temple and a river of life and a time of peace for Jerusalem. Followed 1000 years later by a NJ with no temple, and also a river of life.

  8. #38
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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    You say "The throne room of God IS the temple". You are stretching it to say that a ROOM is the temple. I fail to see anything in your proof verses of POST 34 that conclude that the throne room is the temple. In Rev 21 the verse says And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass. But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
    The city has no need for a temple because God is the temple.( no mention of a "throne room"). No matter how much you try to make it fit, neither the Ezekiel temple nor the Rev 11 temple can be in the NJ, which has no temple. The NJ must therefore come later than those other two temples.

    After the DOTL, I see a future world described in Ezekiel 40-48 complete with temple and a river of life and a time of peace for Jerusalem. Followed 1000 years later by a NJ with no temple, and also a river of life.
    So now you are back-tracking and claiming the throne room of God is NOT the Temple of God.
    IF as I claim the Throne Room of God IS the Temple of God, then it is 100% certain that there is a Temple in the NJ in the NHNE.

    You see you are taking ONE possible interpretation of what John states without paying attention to the simple meaning John is being shown.

    Act 7:48* Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands, as the prophet says,*
    Act 7:49* “‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me, says the Lord, or what is the place of my rest?

    Where will God dwell in the NJ?
    He does NOT dwell in a house made by hands - that is a Human Temple.

    Heb 8:1* Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,*
    Heb 8:2* a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man.

    Where is the one who is seated at the right hand? There are IN the TRUE tent that the Lord set up. IOW the true Temple.

    Heb 9:11* But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)*
    Heb 9:12* he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

    Where did Jesus enter in?

    Heb 9:24* For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.

    Heb 10:12* But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,*

    Heb 10:19* Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,*
    Heb 10:20* by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh,*
    Heb 10:21* and since we have a great priest over the house of God,

    Now here we read something:
    Rev 7:15* “Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.*

    Where are they? They are BEFORE the throne of God, serving Him night and day IN His temple.

    So when does this occur? These are those who have come out of the GT. This is a picture AFTER Jesus has come and is of the NJ and NHNE.

    Rev 11:19* Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

    You see you need to simply answer the question - What is God's temple?
    The very simple answer is that God's Temple is His throne room.

    Rev 16:1* Then I heard a loud voice from the temple telling the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.”

    Rev 16:17* The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, “It is done!”*

    Notice that the loud voice comes out of the temple FROM the throne, which means the throne is IN the temple.

    What IS the Temple? It is the place to meet with God.
    Therefore when John writes that God and the Lamb are its temple, it is because we meet with God throughout the city. However His throne which was in heaven is now on earth. He no longer dwells in heaven but on earth.

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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I can do maths!
    Refer to my post #19, the fact is; 1335 days is 75 days more than 1260 days and exactly the same number of days between Atonement and Hanukkah.

    Jesus will fulfil the Fall Feasts, but Hanukkah too, will have a final fulfillment in the Millennium.
    Your argument doesn't add up. Hanukkah was not among the feasts ordained by God to be observed as a requirement of the law. I recall that not long ago, you haven't even heard of Hanukkah and didn't know what it was. I remember the OP when I rebutted your false interpretation of Dan 8:13-14 and explained that Antiochus 4 fulfilled it and after his death, the triumphant Maccabees cleansed the temple and thus commenced the yearly commemoration called "Hanukkah".

    I can dip up the thread if you deny it. Suddenly, you've become an expert and now building fables on Hanukkah that are unrelated to the Bible.

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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Your argument doesn't add up. Hanukkah was not among the feasts ordained by God to be observed as a requirement of the law. I recall that not long ago, you haven't even heard of Hanukkah and didn't know what it was. I remember the OP when I rebutted your false interpretation of Dan 8:13-14 and explained that Antiochus 4 fulfilled it and after his death, the triumphant Maccabees cleansed the temple and thus commenced the yearly commemoration called "Hanukkah".

    I can dip up the thread if you deny it. Suddenly, you've become an expert and now building fables on Hanukkah that are unrelated to the Bible.
    Your determination to reject anything that doesn't suit you, show a lack of ability to even consider alternative possibilities. This makes discussion impossible.
    Bye bye and have a nice end times.

  11. #41
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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    So now you are back-tracking and claiming the throne room of God is NOT the Temple of God.
    IF as I claim the Throne Room of God IS the Temple of God, then it is 100% certain that there is a Temple in the NJ in the NHNE.

    You see you are taking ONE possible interpretation of what John states without paying attention to the simple meaning John is being shown.

    Act 7:48* Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands, as the prophet says,*
    Act 7:49* “‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me, says the Lord, or what is the place of my rest?

    Where will God dwell in the NJ?
    He does NOT dwell in a house made by hands - that is a Human Temple.

    Heb 8:1* Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,*
    Heb 8:2* a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man.

    Where is the one who is seated at the right hand? There are IN the TRUE tent that the Lord set up. IOW the true Temple.

    Heb 9:11* But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)*
    Heb 9:12* he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

    Where did Jesus enter in?

    Heb 9:24* For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.

    Heb 10:12* But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,*

    Heb 10:19* Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,*
    Heb 10:20* by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh,*
    Heb 10:21* and since we have a great priest over the house of God,

    Now here we read something:
    Rev 7:15* “Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.*

    Where are they? They are BEFORE the throne of God, serving Him night and day IN His temple.

    So when does this occur? These are those who have come out of the GT. This is a picture AFTER Jesus has come and is of the NJ and NHNE.

    Rev 11:19* Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

    You see you need to simply answer the question - What is God's temple?
    The very simple answer is that God's Temple is His throne room.

    Rev 16:1* Then I heard a loud voice from the temple telling the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.”

    Rev 16:17* The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, “It is done!”*

    Notice that the loud voice comes out of the temple FROM the throne, which means the throne is IN the temple.

    What IS the Temple? It is the place to meet with God.
    Therefore when John writes that God and the Lamb are its temple, it is because we meet with God throughout the city. However His throne which was in heaven is now on earth. He no longer dwells in heaven but on earth.
    I can understand why you have your view and I do see possibilities there. I beg to differ though because there is just too much contrast in wording that at first says God's throne is within a temple, then later says there is no temple because God himself is the temple. You may not see that as mutually exclusive, I however do see the two situations as mutually exclusive because why would Revelation contradict it's own use of terminology?

    I therefore see the initial mentions of a throne within a heavenly temple occurring before and after the second coming, then only later do we have the NJ which does not have a temple. Have you any major flaw in my view?

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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I can understand why you have your view and I do see possibilities there. I beg to differ though because there is just too much contrast in wording that at first says God's throne is within a temple, then later says there is no temple because God himself is the temple. You may not see that as mutually exclusive, I however do see the two situations as mutually exclusive because why would Revelation contradict it's own use of terminology?

    I therefore see the initial mentions of a throne within a heavenly temple occurring before and after the second coming, then only later do we have the NJ which does not have a temple. Have you any major flaw in my view?
    The simple question is what IS the Temple in scripture?
    The simple answer is the Temple in Heaven IS the throne room of God.
    The Temple on Earth (made by human hands) is a SHADOW of the temple in Heaven and was the place to go to meet with God, through the intermediary of a priest.

    Now on the NJ the Temple (on earth) is no more - it is gone. There is no more intermediary between Man and God, for God is dwelling on earth. So the statement by John is 100% correct.
    The Temple in Heaven, (which is the Throne Room of God,) is on the earth and is the place where His throne is, and from whence the River of Life flows out. This is confirmed by John in Rev 22.
    This means that Ezekiel 47 matches Rev 22 without any discord.

    Revelation utilises words with more than one meaning and we need to discern which meaning is attributed.
    Revelation is not contradicting its OWN terminology, but rather having more than one meaning for a word.

    We see the same with the word "sea".

    The point is that we KNOW 100% for certain that the Throne Room of God IS on the earth out of which flows the River of Life.

    As for the NJ this comes down at the START of the MK.
    Where will we dwell DURING the MK?
    In the NJ, this is the place God has prepared for us.
    The NHNE STARTS at the start of the MK also.

  13. #43
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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The simple question is what IS the Temple in scripture?
    The simple answer is the Temple in Heaven IS the throne room of God.
    The Temple on Earth (made by human hands) is a SHADOW of the temple in Heaven and was the place to go to meet with God, through the intermediary of a priest.

    Now on the NJ the Temple (on earth) is no more - it is gone. There is no more intermediary between Man and God, for God is dwelling on earth. So the statement by John is 100% correct.
    The Temple in Heaven, (which is the Throne Room of God,) is on the earth and is the place where His throne is, and from whence the River of Life flows out. This is confirmed by John in Rev 22.
    This means that Ezekiel 47 matches Rev 22 without any discord.

    Revelation utilises words with more than one meaning and we need to discern which meaning is attributed.
    Revelation is not contradicting its OWN terminology, but rather having more than one meaning for a word.

    We see the same with the word "sea".

    The point is that we KNOW 100% for certain that the Throne Room of God IS on the earth out of which flows the River of Life.

    As for the NJ this comes down at the START of the MK.
    Where will we dwell DURING the MK?
    In the NJ, this is the place God has prepared for us.
    The NHNE STARTS at the start of the MK also.
    You keep saying the temple is the throne room, but I didn't find your scriptural proof in previous verses convincing, so why would i change my mind now, when you are just making emphatic statements? You did show verses that indicated that the throne room was in some kind of heavenly temple in the earlier part of Revelation before the NJ is even mentioned. I do see how you wish to extend that concept into the NJ without contradiction, I just feel that if the bible itself contradicts its own use of terminology, this is significant.

    I can't see any consensus on this issue going forward, but I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Incidentally I do agree that our primary dwelling during the millenium is the NJ, I just see a secondary dwelling here on earth known as the "camp of the saints". We do not permanently live here, that is for the millenial nations, but we do get involved in ruling and judging on earth, just as the angels are currently in heaven but involved on earth with protecting us and giving us messages.

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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    You keep saying the temple is the throne room, but I didn't find your scriptural proof in previous verses convincing, so why would i change my mind now, when you are just making emphatic statements? You did show verses that indicated that the throne room was in some kind of heavenly temple in the earlier part of Revelation before the NJ is even mentioned. I do see how you wish to extend that concept into the NJ without contradiction, I just feel that if the bible itself contradicts its own use of terminology, this is significant.
    What about them aren't convincing?
    I have quoted you verses which speak of the Temple in Heaven which is clearly the Throne Room of God, so why are you saying it isn't convincing?
    Are the words not clear enough for you?
    Heb 9:24* For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.

    So where has Jesus entered into? It states NOT the copy of the true things, but into the true things themselves, which are in heaven.
    Where are this true things?

    Heb 8:1* Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,*
    Heb 8:2* a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man.

    Where is Jesus ministering? The verses state in the holy places, in the TRUE tent that the Lord set up, not man. It also states that this place is AT THE RIGHT HAND of the Throne of the majesty (that is God).

    Just from these verses alone we KNOW 100% that the Temple in Heaven IS where the Throne of God is.
    Yet there are more:
    Isa 6:1* In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple.

    Where is His throne? It is in the Temple. This is NOT the earthly temple, but the heavenly one.

    Isa 6:2* Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.*
    Isa 6:3* And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!”*
    Isa 6:4* And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke.*
    Isa 6:5* And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”*
    Isa 6:6* Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar.

    Notice the altar, the seraphim the place is the House of God.

    Rev 8:3* And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne,*
    Rev 8:4* and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.*
    Rev 8:5* Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.

    Notice again the altar, this is again in the Throne Room of God.

    Rev 7:11* And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
    Rev 7:15* “Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.

    Here we are told again that the place they serve is BEFORE the Throne of God. We are also told they are day and night IN His Temple.
    How can they be BEFORE the Throne AND also be in His Temple all the time, IF these are TWO separate places?
    Further this is a picture of AFTER the GT, and AFTER the Rapture.

    Throughout scripture the Temple of God IS where His Throne is. Thus metaphorically we are His Temple and He is enthroned in our hearts.

    I personally CANNOT understand anyone who claims the Temple of God is NOT also the Throne Room of God. These are categorically without question the SAME place.
    The ONLY question to determine, is NOT whether the Temple of God is His Throne Room (the place of His Throne where He sits enthroned), but what John means by stating there is no temple seen in the NJ.
    This could have numerous meanings, such as God no longer needs to rule. However as we ARE told in both OT prophecy and Rev 20 and 22 that God rules and His throne is in the NJ so we need to understand another meaning.

    I can't see any consensus on this issue going forward, but I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Incidentally I do agree that our primary dwelling during the millenium is the NJ, I just see a secondary dwelling here on earth known as the "camp of the saints". We do not permanently live here, that is for the millenial nations, but we do get involved in ruling and judging on earth, just as the angels are currently in heaven but involved on earth with protecting us and giving us messages.
    When you say consensus, do you mean just between us? As long as you don;t recognise the SIMPLICITY of the Temple being the Palace (Throne Room of God), then I guess we won't find agreement.
    By the way King David noted he lived in a palace, but no such place was built for God, so he purposed to build one for God. This Solomon was to build and was the palace for God.

    The camp of the saints is NOT a place for us. It is a temporary place for those who flee Satan and those who Satan deceived. The camp of the saints is with Jerusalem:
    Rev 20:8* and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.*
    Rev 20:9* And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,*

    Notice Satan deceives the nations, they gather from the four corners, and those who do not follow Satan flee before him to the City of God, which is also known as the beloved city.
    The camp of the saints is a reference to the MK people who don't follow Satan. The very word camp, speaks of a temporary construction such as a refugee camp.
    God however protects all who come to Him for protection along with those who dwell in the beloved city - the NJ.

  15. #45
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    Re: Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    What about them aren't convincing?
    I have quoted you verses which speak of the Temple in Heaven which is clearly the Throne Room of God, so why are you saying it isn't convincing?
    Are the words not clear enough for you?
    Heb 9:24* For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.

    So where has Jesus entered into? It states NOT the copy of the true things, but into the true things themselves, which are in heaven.
    Where are this true things?

    Heb 8:1* Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,*
    Heb 8:2* a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man.

    Where is Jesus ministering? The verses state in the holy places, in the TRUE tent that the Lord set up, not man. It also states that this place is AT THE RIGHT HAND of the Throne of the majesty (that is God).

    Just from these verses alone we KNOW 100% that the Temple in Heaven IS where the Throne of God is.
    Yet there are more:
    Isa 6:1* In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple.

    Where is His throne? It is in the Temple. This is NOT the earthly temple, but the heavenly one.

    Isa 6:2* Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.*
    Isa 6:3* And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!”*
    Isa 6:4* And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke.*
    Isa 6:5* And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”*
    Isa 6:6* Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar.

    Notice the altar, the seraphim the place is the House of God.

    Rev 8:3* And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne,*
    Rev 8:4* and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.*
    Rev 8:5* Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.

    Notice again the altar, this is again in the Throne Room of God.

    Rev 7:11* And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
    Rev 7:15* “Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.

    Here we are told again that the place they serve is BEFORE the Throne of God. We are also told they are day and night IN His Temple.
    How can they be BEFORE the Throne AND also be in His Temple all the time, IF these are TWO separate places?
    Further this is a picture of AFTER the GT, and AFTER the Rapture.

    Throughout scripture the Temple of God IS where His Throne is. Thus metaphorically we are His Temple and He is enthroned in our hearts.

    I personally CANNOT understand anyone who claims the Temple of God is NOT also the Throne Room of God. These are categorically without question the SAME place.
    The ONLY question to determine, is NOT whether the Temple of God is His Throne Room (the place of His Throne where He sits enthroned), but what John means by stating there is no temple seen in the NJ.
    This could have numerous meanings, such as God no longer needs to rule. However as we ARE told in both OT prophecy and Rev 20 and 22 that God rules and His throne is in the NJ so we need to understand another meaning.


    When you say consensus, do you mean just between us? As long as you don;t recognise the SIMPLICITY of the Temple being the Palace (Throne Room of God), then I guess we won't find agreement.
    By the way King David noted he lived in a palace, but no such place was built for God, so he purposed to build one for God. This Solomon was to build and was the palace for God.

    The camp of the saints is NOT a place for us. It is a temporary place for those who flee Satan and those who Satan deceived. The camp of the saints is with Jerusalem:
    Rev 20:8* and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.*
    Rev 20:9* And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,*

    Notice Satan deceives the nations, they gather from the four corners, and those who do not follow Satan flee before him to the City of God, which is also known as the beloved city.
    The camp of the saints is a reference to the MK people who don't follow Satan. The very word camp, speaks of a temporary construction such as a refugee camp.
    God however protects all who come to Him for protection along with those who dwell in the beloved city - the NJ.
    I acknowledged already that the throne and throne room are described as being in a heavenly temple. Sure. Does that make the throne room a temple? No. You are missing one step in your deductive reasoning.

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