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Thread: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

  1. #31
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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Sorry but this is IRRELEVANT to what is stated.
    Further WHY does Daniel pray when he did? Did he take a time at random? No he prayed when the daily sacrifice was to be made.
    If you can't see why its relevant I probably can't explain it, but I can give it a go. The POINT IS........it doesn't have to be a Meat Sacrifice, God saw Daniels heart and thus his TRIBUTE or OBLATION was accepted, and Gabriel showing up proves that doesn't it ? So why do you ASSUME the DAILY that Gabriel told Daniel about during the END TIMES was a SACRIFICE of an animal ? As a matter of fact, us knowing Jesus is our Sacrifice at that point in time why wouldn't we ASSUME that Gabriel knows that (we do I assume) and thus Gabriel knows an animal sacrifice at that time would be profaning Jesus and an Abomination also. So if that were the case, the Abomination of Desolation only replaces another ABOMINATION ? And in that case you couldn't profane that which was already profaned !! Once Israel repents, they will serve Jesus, thus the DAILY will be taken away, it will not change, it will just be a TWICE DAILY OBLATION unto Jesus Christ, in the temple of God, which angers the High Priest.

    You rely on the KJV and yet then start going on about the Greek.
    Yet it states when the breaking of power is at an end so this will end.
    However in Dan 12:11 it is NOT referring to Daniel's time of praying but what was stated in Dan 11:31
    Dan 11:31* And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. (KJV)
    Notice it is the SAME "daily".

    The 1290 days AND the 1335 days START from when the "daily" is stopped.
    Also NO mention of 1260 days, that is you bringing things in from another passage.
    Well since I don't read Greek I have to rely on some English version. SMILE.....Of course I don't fully trust any translation, all of them have their quirks.

    You are confusing Antiochus Epiphanes in Daniel 11:31 with the End Time AoD which Jesus said would come. Daniel 8 is also about the End Times, not AE4.

    As per the same words being used in Daniel 11:31 as Daniel 12:11 that doesn't matter. One actually meant a Meat Sacrifice because that was the norm a the time, by the time the End Times gets here the Jews will have repented, and tus why would it be a Meat Sacrifice ? Thus Gabriel only gives him the word DAILY on purpose, so as not to confuse Daniel by telling him in some places daily sacrifice and other places THE DAILY. It means the same thing, one was before Jesus and one was AFTER Jesus. They needed a Meat Sacrifice BEFORE Jesus and don't need a Meat Sacrifice after Jesus because JESUS IS THEIR SACRIFICE !! Thus the facts are the facts, its the Worshiping of Jesus in the Temple that is taken away from the Repentant Jews.

    A time, times and half [time] is 1260 days. This is basic knowledge that has been around for eons and eons sister. The DAILY & the AoD start at the same time, 30 days before the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem. The 1335 thus comes before the 1290.

    You have clearly stated WHY putting this into the future is not possible. However it is NOT possible to put the timings BEFORE the daily is taken away, so you have shown it is NOT future but past.
    I said no such thing to my knowledge. It is in the END TIMES.......Which is future. The Daily is take away 30 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem at the MIDWAY POINT.

    ======1 Year======2 years======3 years ===3.5 years ===4 years ======5 years ======6 years ======7 years
    Rapture........................................... ........1335...1290..1260......................... .................................................. .........Second Coming
    ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]2W.......AoD..Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem......................................... .......Jesus Returns to end these troubles/wonders.

    How will he put the image in the Holy Place if he has no access to it and has not conquered it? The picture of an AoD is with force such a thing is done.
    He's the Jewish High Priest !! Remember Antiochus Epiphanes sister ? He was a TYPE or FORERUNNER to the coming Anti-Christ, well he had a guy named "Jason" whose real name was Yeshua, he paid (Bribed) Antiochus to be named the High Priest, thus Antiochus had Jason's brother, a Pious High Priest named Onias III killed, and placed Jason in the same position, he tried to Hellenize the Jews thus his name is know as Jason !! I think that not only was AE4 a forerunner of the Anti-Christ, but Jason was a forerunner to the False Prophet also. This False Prophet COMES out of the land, thus we know he is Jewish, just like Jason was.

    So I think the High Priest will have access to the Temple. He of course will despise the fact the 1/3 of the Jews (MANY to him) worship Jesus and I think he thus throws in with the Beast like Jason did AE4, but only right before he sees it as an inevitable defeat that he's facing, thus he places this image of the European President in the Temple of God. In other words, he already hates the Messianic (Christian) Jews, so he has no problem doing this, he's like Jason, he thinks the Jews ought to do away with practices of old, and be more progressive and act more like the civilized world. The False Prophet will be a Jewish High Priest. The AoD is just an abomination, if it was FORCE how could the Jews Flee Judea ? It's not about FORCE..........When Jerusalem gets Conquered, that will be by force, after that happens Jews will not be allowed to flee IMHO.

    And? Dan 11:29 is speaking of the appointed time of the end. It is about A4E.
    Dan 11:33 - 35 is about the Jews at the time of A4E.
    Dan 11:36 - 45 gives more details about A4E and Dan 12:1 goes back to the Jews and how they should live with eternity in view.
    Finally there is an end and a blessing.
    Not so sister, it's speaking about an APPOINTED TIME, right after AE4 went back to his Homeland............I pasted a little of my exegesis below.

    Daniel 11:28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

    Antiochus Epiphanes returned north it seems because of a rumor that he had died. That rumor seemingly caused a war to breakout in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes plundered the temple of God, killed many people, then journeyed north to Antioch. (his homeland)

    29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the later. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

    Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and he seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed them but allowed the Hellenistic (THINK JASON) Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in some of his mannerisms. As per Egypt and the or the "King of the South" in this instance, it will not be as THE FORMER (before he left for Antioch, because they got the Romans to nip AE4 in the bud so to speak) or as THE LATER (Meaning of course the Coming Anti-Christ, see verse 36.)

    31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

    Antiochus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan altar unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination of Desolation that Jesus and was speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there during AE4's time.


    32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. 33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

    This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. Thus there were many Jews that forsook their God and many also who refused to do so and paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

    34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

    I think this is referring to the Maccabean Revolt and/or right around that time. It seems we need to look at this prophecy here in segments. A historical segment that has already been fulfilled (Dan. 11:1-35) and an eschatological segment where the prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. Of course when Daniel received this prophetic uttering none of it had basically come to pass, now all of it has come to pass except for Dan. 11:36-45 and Dan. 12:1-12. So, it seems after verse 35 we can say that we fast forward so to speak into eschatology.

    We get the historical lessons via the prophecy of all the Grecian Kingdoms and the Syrian Wars which are detailed unto the nth degree, then Rome became the Fourth Beast and Greece seems to have faded into the background so to speak until the last King/Little Horn arrives, which comes from their lineage. We know this via Daniel chapter 8. We are told of this end time king starting in verse 36 and running unto the end of Daniel chapter 12. Notice in verse 34 and 35 above, it speaks of the time of the end as a yet to be appointed time and states that basically from Antiochus Epiphanes on, there will continue to be persecution and troubles and many who fall will be helped but others will heed the lies of the wicked one or his (flatteries). Some who understand will fall OR BE TRIED and PURGED !! Think of Paul, Peter and the Saints of the Church Age....to make them WHITE (pure), even to the END OF TIME !! Very, very exciting stuff !!

    36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

    The king here has to be the end time Anti-Christ/Beast of Daniel 7:11. He is of course not called the king of the north or south here for a specific reason, the Sixth Syrian War ended the Syrian Wars. Rome came between Greece and Egypt putting a halt to Antiochus Epiphanes plans for good. Rome of course eventually conquered both Egypt and Greece thus becoming the Fourth Beast of the region over Israel.

    I of course disagree about verses 34 and 35, I think that is about ALL THE SAINTS made White until the END TIMES....And while some of them can be those that died in the Maccabean Revolt, most were the Saints who became "WHITE" from Jesus time until the Anti-Christ shows up, in other words its a 2000 year stretch, or longer, stretching back in the BC days. Thus we get the full picture.

    Why can't it?
    15 Kislev 168 BC to 25 Kislev 165 BC is 1150 days or 2300 mornings and evenings.
    Which
    If the Temples is defiled for only 1150 days according to Daniel chapter 8, how can that fit Antiochus who defiled the Temples for 3 years and 10 days ? Which is only 1090 days, not 1150 days. It doesn't fit.

  2. #32
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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    There are many who get a "tug" and claim it is the Holy Spirit.
    The proof is NOT the "tug" but in the outcome of that "tug".
    The Preacher this Sunday had a "tug" to preach and thought that the Holy Spirit had told him that a certain person would be there and so they should preach instead of the scheduled Preacher.
    The Preacher who had the "tug" was allowed to preach, but the certain person they expected to be there (and who normally is) was NOT there.
    So that Preacher had misunderstood the Holy Spirit in some way. Others were blessed by the preaching, but though they were sure the Holy Spirit had given them that "tug", they recognised that they had got something wrong.
    On this forum there are many who get a "tug" from the Holy Spirit, or a revelation from God.
    Yet we are called to TEST those spirits, not by testing the "tug" which is individual to each person, but by testing what they claim and teach.
    Does scripture confirm what they say or are they changing the meaning of words or contexts?
    I have had numerous "tugs" yet I know that God is NOT telling me that the "tug" is what is important. It is the TRUTH which is important and the "tug" is for me to be aware and open to what He is saying.

    Also note that the Spirit NEVER testifies to Himself. Rather He bears witness to the Father and the Son and who we are in Him and how we are to act and to know them more, even as the Son pointed us to the Father.
    Jesus didn't tell the Disciples, rely on the "tug". He OPENED scripture to them so they could understand what was ALREADY stated
    So IF your "tug" leads to a conclusion which is CONTRARY to scripture then YOU should know that you have misunderstood what the "tug" is about - at least on that occasion.
    To be honest, this is nonsensical stuff here sister, at least to me. You are making the same mistake the other guy above made. If this argument stands then Satan always wins because he's always sowing doubt and confusion via lies. It's on YOU and OTHERS to be able to hear the holy spirit's voice I can't make you hear it. I didn't even read it all and I never do that, but that felt like a point that was just a waste of time reading, we can't just say...........WELL Satan wins because he sows confusion.

    All I can say is learn to hear the spirit, Satan will never win like that via me because I also hear the LIARS VOICE !! I just choose to ignore him, and thus he goes away.

    Resist the devil and he will flee from you. I see a lot of people with wrongheaded ideas, I don't question their faith, but I understand when its not of God. I understand some Christians fall for lies, they are weak, they are naive. When I testify I hear from the Holy Spirit you can choose to believe it or not, that is on you, you make the judgment, and of course if you are entrenched in positions that don't jibe with the truths I have been given I MUST BE WRONG, or maybe just maybe I am right. You see, it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks does it, when we get to heaven, the Spirit will tell me good and faithful job my son. That is because I hear His voice, you nor anyone else doubting really has any effect on my relationship with God. When the Holy Spirit tells me something, two billion people would never get me to budge off of that conviction, and why should it ? I serve God, not men. If you don't understand the actions via men and Holy Spirit no one can teach it to you that's for sue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Dan 36-45 was fulfilled by Herod the Great. I have written extensively on it.
    A4E is the little horn of Dan 8 and the 1150 days were fulfilled when he stopped the daily sacrifice in the temple. After his death, the Jews rededicated the temple.
    Wrong on both accounts....

  3. #33
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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Nope they speak of the SAME timescale as stated here:
    Dan 12:1* And at that time shall Michael stand up,


    So are the 1290 and 1335 days. It is all about from the time the sacrifices were stopped. This period is conencted therefore to Dan 11:29 & 31.


    This is the period from 168 BC when A4E came and took Jerusalem by force and enslaved people and set up the Abomination and forced people to change their worship.
    This lasted through until the victory over A4E's forces and the death of A4E when that policy was no longer enforced.


    That will happen in the future. This statement is about what happens DEPENDING upon how you ive DURING the time of trouble.
    This is the SAME message we have in Revelation as to how we live DURING the GT.
    I'm really fascinated by the way you cherry pick scripture. For example, it served your purpose to use "and at that time" (Dan 12:1) to claim that Daniel 12 was fulfilled under Antiochus 4. And then assert that verses 2-3 are in the future? Incredulous I'd say!

    For me, nothing in Dan 12 has been fulfilled yet.

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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Try as some might the word SACRIFICE is not in the Hebrew text. It says the DAILY is taken away, you are taking it on yourself as did the English translators to say it's an actual animal sacrifice. What if Gabriel told Daniel THE DAILY is taken away and it's the Worshiping or tribute to Jesus "THE REAL SACRIFICE" that is taken away, thus Gabriel never tells Daniel Sacrifice, he calls it simply THE DAILY !! Which is what he Hebrew Text actually says.

    It has to be 30 days prior to the 1260 event. It's called the 1290 for a reason. Why is the 1260 in the Middle of the week but the 1290 is at the end ? ITS NOT !! The 1290 is 30 days before or 30 days after the 1260, and it can not be 30 days after for sure. The whole point of emphasis of this chapter seems to be lost, its the scattering of the holy people and how long the troubles or wonder's last, and they last 1260 days until Jesus returns to end these wonders/troubles.Of course it's hard to understand, God wanted it that way until in the end times He decided to reveal a secret truth, so why are we surprised no one understands it.....

    The 1290 is the middle of the week, not the exact center, but the verse says midst. Nothing being spoken of happens after Christ's return, his RETURN is what ENDS these wonders in all three instances.
    You aren't going to change the Scripture meaning preying on one word. The idea of the 'daily' is about the daily sacrifices per the old covenant. And God has already given us an ensample of the future Antichrist ending the daily sacrifice and placing the AOD inside a temple in Jerusalem like Dan.11:31 shows. It was done historically by Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. Ending the daily sacrifice is exactly... what he did, and then went inside the temple and sacrificed swine on the altar, and setup an idol on it to Zeus. He's the blueprint for the future Antichrist in Jerusalem, as Jesus forewarned about 200 years later of another coming to place the "abomination of desolation" per the Book of Daniel.

    If the daily sacrifice AND placing of the AOD in the temple is at any OTHER time than the middle of Daniel's "one week" of Dan.9:27, then that other... time is a falsehood and is against the Scriptures of God's written Word. Simple as that. What you have proposed goes directly... against what Dan.9:27 declares about the middle of the one week.

    [----- 1260 days ------][--end of sacrifices and setup of AOD][---- latter 1260 days----][ Jesus' coming][--- 1290 days--][--1335 days--]

  5. #35
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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    If you can't see why its relevant I probably can't explain it, but I can give it a go. The POINT IS........it doesn't have to be a Meat Sacrifice, God saw Daniels heart and thus his TRIBUTE or OBLATION was accepted, and Gabriel showing up proves that doesn't it ? So why do you ASSUME the DAILY that Gabriel told Daniel about during the END TIMES was a SACRIFICE of an animal ? As a matter of fact, us knowing Jesus is our Sacrifice at that point in time why wouldn't we ASSUME that Gabriel knows that (we do I assume) and thus Gabriel knows an animal sacrifice at that time would be profaning Jesus and an Abomination also. So if that were the case, the Abomination of Desolation only replaces another ABOMINATION ? And in that case you couldn't profane that which was already profaned !! Once Israel repents, they will serve Jesus, thus the DAILY will be taken away, it will not change, it will just be a TWICE DAILY OBLATION unto Jesus Christ, in the temple of God, which angers the High Priest.
    It isn't about Daniel though but about what Daniel's PEOPLE do.
    God isn't stopping Daniel but stopping something that is done daily.
    This word is used throughout scripture for the daily sacrifice.

    Further YOU are the one who is claiming it is about some FUTURE time. Yet Dan 11:31 was NOT future but in the past.
    Therefore the wording in Dan 12:11 has the SAME meaning as that in Dan 11:31.
    Now IF you could show that Dan 11:31 is NOT the daily sacrifice... but you can't so what you say is then irrelevant.

    Well since I don't read Greek I have to rely on some English version. SMILE.....Of course I don't fully trust any translation, all of them have their quirks.
    I don't read Ancient Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic fluently ( I don;t think anyone does). However I do have access to the internet and to BibleHub which DOES have the Interlinear and shows meanings.

    You are confusing Antiochus Epiphanes in Daniel 11:31 with the End Time AoD which Jesus said would come. Daniel 8 is also about the End Times, not AE4.
    Nope Dan 11:31 is AT THE SAME TIME as Dan 12:1 as the words (in English) clearly state.
    So I have no confusion, just reading what is stated as meaning what it says.
    Confusion comes when you try to lift things out of CONTEXT as you have a misunderstanding over something or can't find enough facts to verify something.

    As per the same words being used in Daniel 11:31 as Daniel 12:11 that doesn't matter. One actually meant a Meat Sacrifice because that was the norm a the time, by the time the End Times gets here the Jews will have repented, and tus why would it be a Meat Sacrifice ? Thus Gabriel only gives him the word DAILY on purpose, so as not to confuse Daniel by telling him in some places daily sacrifice and other places THE DAILY. It means the same thing, one was before Jesus and one was AFTER Jesus. They needed a Meat Sacrifice BEFORE Jesus and don't need a Meat Sacrifice after Jesus because JESUS IS THEIR SACRIFICE !! Thus the facts are the facts, its the Worshiping of Jesus in the Temple that is taken away from the Repentant Jews.
    Sorry, but incorrect claims. It is a sacrifice and it is something done in the temple and it is something that is STOPPED. You CANNOT stop someone praying, but you CAN stop them making sacrifices on the altar.
    Daniel is NOT confused. He would be if Gabriel says "daily" and means meat sacrifice and then in the SAME vision says "daily" and doesn't mean a meat sacrifice.

    A time, times and half [time] is 1260 days. This is basic knowledge that has been around for eons and eons sister. The DAILY & the AoD start at the same time, 30 days before the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem. The 1335 thus comes before the 1290.
    It is a claim that has been around for a while.
    However it is an incorrect claim. If it were 1260 days then the angel would have said that. When we CHANGE God's words to something other without justification then we are sure to err.
    The angel had no problem specifying 1290 days and 1335 days because that is EXACTLY what is meant.
    I prefer to use the terminology God uses rather than make up my own. Which means what is a time and what is times and what is half a time. Time is NOT a year. It could be a season or it could be a period of time (which is what it literally means).

    I said no such thing to my knowledge. It is in the END TIMES.......Which is future. The Daily is take away 30 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem at the MIDWAY POINT.
    Nope you said that IF they start at the SAME time then it can't be the future.
    The FACT is that the scripture STATES the 1290 days and the 1335 days START AT THE SAME TIME, and BOTH start with the AoD. Now IF you ALSO say the 1260 days is the START of the AoD then this means YOU have THREE periods of time ALL starting at the AoD.
    This means it CANNOT be future.
    And I agree with you that it cannot based upon that simple point.
    You are disagreeing with yourself though as you argue that the 1290 and 1335 days starts BEFORE the AoD which is CONTRARY to the words of the angel:
    Dan 12:11* And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.*
    Dan 12:12* Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.

    This is pretty plain and simple language.

    ======1 Year======2 years======3 years ===3.5 years ===4 years ======5 years ======6 years ======7 years
    Rapture........................................... ........1335...1290..1260......................... .................................................. .........Second Coming
    ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]2W.......AoD..Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem......................................... .......Jesus Returns to end these troubles/wonders.
    No wonder you are confused you hold to pre-trib.
    Never mind. I am not sure you can be helped.
    However the above is CLEARLY wrong as the 1290 starts from the AoD and either the 1335 days starts from it as well or it starts AFTER the 1290 days. I think the first makes more sense according to scripture...

    He's the Jewish High Priest !! Remember Antiochus Epiphanes sister ? He was a TYPE or FORERUNNER to the coming Anti-Christ, well he had a guy named "Jason" whose real name was Yeshua, he paid (Bribed) Antiochus to be named the High Priest, thus Antiochus had Jason's brother, a Pious High Priest named Onias III killed, and placed Jason in the same position, he tried to Hellenize the Jews thus his name is know as Jason !! I think that not only was AE4 a forerunner of the Anti-Christ, but Jason was a forerunner to the False Prophet also. This False Prophet COMES out of the land, thus we know he is Jewish, just like Jason was.
    And? This may be correct, but it doesn't make what was about 168 - 164 BC somehow be about the future. It is a foreshadowing, but NOT an actual future event.

    So I think the High Priest will have access to the Temple. He of course will despise the fact the 1/3 of the Jews (MANY to him) worship Jesus and I think he thus throws in with the Beast like Jason did AE4, but only right before he sees it as an inevitable defeat that he's facing, thus he places this image of the European President in the Temple of God. In other words, he already hates the Messianic (Christian) Jews, so he has no problem doing this, he's like Jason, he thinks the Jews ought to do away with practices of old, and be more progressive and act more like the civilized world. The False Prophet will be a Jewish High Priest. The AoD is just an abomination, if it was FORCE how could the Jews Flee Judea ? It's not about FORCE..........When Jerusalem gets Conquered, that will be by force, after that happens Jews will not be allowed to flee IMHO.
    OK I won't bother discussing this speculation.

    Not so sister, it's speaking about an APPOINTED TIME, right after AE4 went back to his Homeland............I pasted a little of my exegesis below.
    Daniel 11:28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
    Antiochus Epiphanes returned north it seems because of a rumor that he had died. That rumor seemingly caused a war to breakout in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes plundered the temple of God, killed many people, then journeyed north to Antioch. (his homeland)
    29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the later. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
    Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and he seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed them but allowed the Hellenistic (THINK JASON) Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in some of his mannerisms. As per Egypt and the or the "King of the South" in this instance, it will not be as THE FORMER (before he left for Antioch, because they got the Romans to nip AE4 in the bud so to speak) or as THE LATER (Meaning of course the Coming Anti-Christ, see verse 36.)
    31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
    Antiochus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan altar unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination of Desolation that Jesus and was speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there during AE4's time.
    The APPOINTED time you note is about Antiochus. It states that he moves against the holy covenant in verse 28. Then He RETURNS to Egypt and defiles the temple etc. which is part of that TIME. SO why you then, having noted this TRUTH that verse 29 and verse 31 are about A4E abandon your own explanation?

    32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. 33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

    This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. Thus there were many Jews that forsook their God and many also who refused to do so and paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

    34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

    I think this is referring to the Maccabean Revolt and/or right around that time. It seems we need to look at this prophecy here in segments. A historical segment that has already been fulfilled (Dan. 11:1-35) and an eschatological segment where the prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. Of course when Daniel received this prophetic uttering none of it had basically come to pass, now all of it has come to pass except for Dan. 11:36-45 and Dan. 12:1-12. So, it seems after verse 35 we can say that we fast forward so to speak into eschatology.
    You get it right up to verse 34. Verse 35 though is also part of this.
    Verse 36 - 45 was also all fulfilled with A4E.
    Dan 12:1 speaks of the APPOINTED time which is aligned completely with verse 29. Dan 12:7 speaks of the SAME thing as 11:31.
    It is bizarre to separate them out.

    We get the historical lessons via the prophecy of all the Grecian Kingdoms and the Syrian Wars which are detailed unto the nth degree, then Rome became the Fourth Beast and Greece seems to have faded into the background so to speak until the last King/Little Horn arrives, which comes from their lineage. We know this via Daniel chapter 8. We are told of this end time king starting in verse 36 and running unto the end of Daniel chapter 12. Notice in verse 34 and 35 above, it speaks of the time of the end as a yet to be appointed time and states that basically from Antiochus Epiphanes on, there will continue to be persecution and troubles and many who fall will be helped but others will heed the lies of the wicked one or his (flatteries). Some who understand will fall OR BE TRIED and PURGED !! Think of Paul, Peter and the Saints of the Church Age....to make them WHITE (pure), even to the END OF TIME !! Very, very exciting stuff !!
    Rome isn't in Daniel 8.
    It is really strange when people don't accept God's messenger:
    Dan 8:21* And the goat is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king.*
    Dan 8:22* As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose, four kingdoms shall arise from his nation, but not with his power.*
    Dan 8:23* And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise.*

    This isn't rocket science, no one needs a degree in linguistics and ancient languages.
    The angel says in verse 21 that the goat is the king of Greece - thus Alexander (OK a little bit of history helps).
    Then in verse 22 we are told that the kingdom of Alexander is split into 4 kingdoms, whihc is what happens in history also.
    In verse 23 we are told that at the END of those 4 kingdoms there will be a king who arises.
    CONTEXTUALLY and historically this is A4E.

    36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

    The king here has to be the end time Anti-Christ/Beast of Daniel 7:11. He is of course not called the king of the north or south here for a specific reason, the Sixth Syrian War ended the Syrian Wars. Rome came between Greece and Egypt putting a halt to Antiochus Epiphanes plans for good. Rome of course eventually conquered both Egypt and Greece thus becoming the Fourth Beast of the region over Israel.
    Why is it about an End-Time king?
    It isn't, it continues on being about A4E. The king refers to the previously mentioned king which was A4E.

    I of course disagree about verses 34 and 35, I think that is about ALL THE SAINTS made White until the END TIMES....And while some of them can be those that died in the Maccabean Revolt, most were the Saints who became "WHITE" from Jesus time until the Anti-Christ shows up, in other words its a 2000 year stretch, or longer, stretching back in the BC days. Thus we get the full picture.
    Have no idea why you would think that EXCEPT you are forcing it to be about something OTHER than what is stated, which is about Daniel's people.

    Which
    If the Temples is defiled for only 1150 days according to Daniel chapter 8, how can that fit Antiochus who defiled the Temples for 3 years and 10 days ? Which is only 1090 days, not 1150 days. It doesn't fit.
    I explained on another post.
    Dan 8 doesn't say 1150 days nor 2300 days. It says 2300 evenings mornings, which are your "dailys".
    Now from that we deduce 1150 days.
    However it is NOT 1090 days.

    According to Herodotus, at the time (440 BC) they had 360 day years but then added an intercalary month every couple of years.
    So 3 years is 360 x 3 = 1080, but with two intercalary months becomes 1140 and add your 10 days and becomes 1150 days.

    However if we work with the Jewish system then we find most years are either 354 or 355 days long but they also have intercalary months of either 29 or 30 days.
    The problem gets more complicated as Josephus uses the Greek method of counting while Maccabees seems to use the Jewish months.
    355 + 354 + 355 + 29 + 30 +10 = 1133 days if the Jewish method is used.
    However there was a period before the AoD is setup when sacrifices are not happening and so this difference could be the missing sacrifices required.

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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I'm really fascinated by the way you cherry pick scripture. For example, it served your purpose to use "and at that time" (Dan 12:1) to claim that Daniel 12 was fulfilled under Antiochus 4. And then assert that verses 2-3 are in the future? Incredulous I'd say!

    For me, nothing in Dan 12 has been fulfilled yet.
    Nothing cherry picked.
    Verse 1 states AT THAT TIME, which means in reference to what has ALREADY been stated - a TIME noted, which is clearly Dan 11:29.
    However verse 2 does NOT say AT THAT TIME in reference to the resurrection, ONLY to the deliverance.
    So no cherry picking, simply going with what is ACTUALLY stated.
    All of Dan 11 and 12 is fulfilled except the future resurrection.

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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by DavePeace View Post
    You aren't going to change the Scripture meaning preying on one word. The idea of the 'daily' is about the daily sacrifices per the old covenant. And God has already given us an ensample of the future Antichrist ending the daily sacrifice and placing the AOD inside a temple in Jerusalem like Dan.11:31 shows. It was done historically by Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. Ending the daily sacrifice is exactly... what he did, and then went inside the temple and sacrificed swine on the altar, and setup an idol on it to Zeus. He's the blueprint for the future Antichrist in Jerusalem, as Jesus forewarned about 200 years later of another coming to place the "abomination of desolation" per the Book of Daniel.

    If the daily sacrifice AND placing of the AOD in the temple is at any OTHER time than the middle of Daniel's "one week" of Dan.9:27, then that other... time is a falsehood and is against the Scriptures of God's written Word. Simple as that. What you have proposed goes directly... against what Dan.9:27 declares about the middle of the one week.

    [----- 1260 days ------][--end of sacrifices and setup of AOD][---- latter 1260 days----][ Jesus' coming][--- 1290 days--][--1335 days--]
    Daniel 12:11 is not during the time God requires a Meat Sacrifice is it ? Jesus has already died by that time because we know it a future event. FACTS ARE FACTS, just like with Daniel in Daniel 9:21 it doesn't have to refer to a Meat Sacrifice, why would you ASSUME it does when the Holy Scriptures say Israel REPENT BEFORE the Day of the Lord.

    Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

    Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

    Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

    Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

    I wonder if anyone really gets this ? Malachi stated that Elijah the Prophet would be sent back BEFORE the Day of the Lord (God's Wrath) starts to turn Israel back unto God. Well Zechariah 12, 13 and 14 gives us a progressive walk through of that repentance, then shows Israel being CONQUERED and then shows the Jews being SAVED.

    In Zechariah 12:10-11 we see the Jews MOURN and REPENT for rejecting Jesus............Then Zechariah 13:1 says IN THAT DAY [that they repent] there will be a FOUNTAIN OPENED [Jesus' blood] for SINS and for UNCLEANNESS !! Then in Zechariah 13:8-9 we see that 2/3 will be cut off and die but 1/3 will be brought through the fire, and will be refined and call on God's name and God will hear them and call them his people !! (In Rev. 18:4 God says COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE)

    Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

    {{{{The ABOVE is the Anti-Christ Conquering Jerusalem/Israel in the Middle of the Week at the 1260 EVENT, thus becoming THE BEAST fr 1260 days...........THE BELOW is Jesus returning to Mt Zion, splitting it open, with the Bride in tow, defeating the Beast and his Minions. }}}}

    3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    All of this shows that Israel REPENTS Before the Day of the Lord (Middle of the Week/1260). Thus why would anyone think a REPENTANT NATION would profane the Temple of God with an animal sacrifIce ? I believe they REPENT and that the False Prophet thus stops the Jews from worshiping Jesus TWICE DAILY if that is their tradition as per an Oblation being mandated twice a day.

    I agree the AoD will be similar, but I don't think it's a sacrifice either, its an IMAGE of the Beast that is placed in the holy of holies. So we do have a TYPE in Antiochus Epiphanes and a TYPE in the High Priest Jason (False Prophet). I do not think there is an Animal Sacrifice that is taken away, I think it's the right to worship Jesus in the Temple that is taken away from a REPENTANT Israel, as Malachi and Zechariah 12, 13 and 14 proves. Both Antiochus and the Anti-Christ profane the Temple of God no doubt, but they don't have to profane it in the SAME MANNER, after all, Antiochus was worshiping Zeus (which proves by the way He was not the Dan. 11:36-45 King of the North, because he worships NO GOD) but this Anti-Christ/Beast will call himself the ONLY GOD !! Thus his IMAGE standing in the Temple is the AoD.

    The Dan. 9:27 SCRIPTURE says MIDST.........MIDST.........He CAUSES the AoD to come to pass !! Well of course he does, you don't think this False Prophet would do this without the go ahead from the Anti-Christ do you ? The MIDST can be the 1290, its still in the midst of the week. It's coming brother, I see you have good knowledge of the bible.

    God Bless.

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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    To be honest, this is nonsensical stuff here sister, at least to me. You are making the same mistake the other guy above made. If this argument stands then Satan always wins because he's always sowing doubt and confusion via lies. It's on YOU and OTHERS to be able to hear the holy spirit's voice I can't make you hear it. I didn't even read it all and I never do that, but that felt like a point that was just a waste of time reading, we can't just say...........WELL Satan wins because he sows confusion.
    No your argument is nonsensical. Satan wins when we do NOT test the spirit.
    Of course he likes to sow doubt and confusion. The answer is NOT to go La La La and say "I have a tug". The answer is to return to God's Word.
    I can hear God's voice. Sometimes it is clear and sometimes less so.
    If you don;t bother to read what someone puts then you are allowing Satan to win.

    All I can say is learn to hear the spirit, Satan will never win like that via me because I also hear the LIARS VOICE !! I just choose to ignore him, and thus he goes away.
    And this is why you make claims which are contrary to scripture thus YOU do Satan's work - as per your above claim.

    Resist the devil and he will flee from you. I see a lot of people with wrongheaded ideas, I don't question their faith, but I understand when its not of God. I understand some Christians fall for lies, they are weak, they are naive. When I testify I hear from the Holy Spirit you can choose to believe it or not, that is on you, you make the judgment, and of course if you are entrenched in positions that don't jibe with the truths I have been given I MUST BE WRONG, or maybe just maybe I am right. You see, it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks does it, when we get to heaven, the Spirit will tell me good and faithful job my son. That is because I hear His voice, you nor anyone else doubting really has any effect on my relationship with God. When the Holy Spirit tells me something, two billion people would never get me to budge off of that conviction, and why should it ? I serve God, not men. If you don't understand the actions via men and Holy Spirit no one can teach it to you that's for sue.
    Well as you have fallen for a lie then this makes you weak and naive.
    I am not interested in whether you heard something from the Holy Spirit IF what you say is CONTRARY to God's Word then I KNOW 100% that you are NOT hearing His Holy Spirit.
    I am not entrenched in anything beyond knowing the TRUTH of His Word.
    The Holy Spirit will NOT tell you "well done good and faithful servant" IF you have not dealt with His Word correctly:
    Jas 3:1* Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.*
    Jas 3:2* For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

    You are presenting what you say as IF it is the Word of God. So you have the responsibility for it to MATCH what that word says.
    I have shown you it doesn't, which means you are going to be judged with greater strictness.
    I am not claiming Holy Spirit inspiration for what I am putting, however you should note that all of us are called to speak as if we are speaking His words.
    We also all have His Spirit in us.

    Wrong on both accounts....
    Correct on BOTH counts, but you have had a "tug".

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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Nothing cherry picked.
    Verse 1 states AT THAT TIME, which means in reference to what has ALREADY been stated - a TIME noted, which is clearly Dan 11:29.
    However verse 2 does NOT say AT THAT TIME in reference to the resurrection, ONLY to the deliverance.
    So no cherry picking, simply going with what is ACTUALLY stated.
    All of Dan 11 and 12 is fulfilled except the future resurrection.
    If you really understand the nuance and language of scripture, then you'll realize that "and at that time" can easily refer to a time in the future. Not that you'll ever consider this since it upends your case.

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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    It isn't about Daniel though but about what Daniel's PEOPLE do.
    God isn't stopping Daniel but stopping something that is done daily.
    This word is used throughout scripture for the daily sacrifice.

    Further YOU are the one who is claiming it is about some FUTURE time. Yet Dan 11:31 was NOT future but in the past.
    Therefore the wording in Dan 12:11 has the SAME meaning as that in Dan 11:31.
    Now IF you could show that Dan 11:31 is NOT the daily sacrifice... but you can't so what you say is then irrelevant.
    The Daily [sacrifice] refers to a continual cleansing of God's people daily, where they can come into the presence of God. This is not the yearly atonement that also is to cleanse God's Holy people. These were just two of many practices designed to keep Israel clean, because we all sin daily, even if by omission, by being of the flesh we sin daily.

    The understanding of these visions is to come at the end of time; therefore, any interpretation before the time of the end according to the prophecy must be incomplete and/or erroneous. Twice within the prophecy of chapter 8, Daniel is told that the taking away of the "daily" by the little horn happens at the end.

    "So he came near where I stood, and when he came I was afraid and fell on my face; but he said to me, 'Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the time of the end.' ... And he said, 'Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be.'" (Dan 8:17, 19).

    Let us look into these chapters { Daniel 7-8, 10-12, Revelation 12-13 and 17 } to see what the little horn's activities are to see if this can shed light on the daily. Dan. 7:25 states that the little horn changes "times and law." The term "change times and law" seems difficult to understand, but because of the connection of speaking "pompous words against the Most High" and "persecute the saints of the Most High," this changing of times and law must have to do with the changing of God's times and laws. Let us examine Daniel 7:25 carefully. If we use some other translations to help us, the meaning of this text becomes clear.

    King James Version: "He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, shall persecute the saints of the Most High, and shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand for a time and times and half a time."

    Revised English Version: "He will hurl defiance at the Most High and wear out the holy ones of the Most High. He will have it in mind to alter the festival seasons and religious laws, and the Holy ones will be delivered into his power for a time, and times, and half a time."

    New Revised Standard Version: "He shall speak words against the Most High, shall wear out the holy ones of the Most High, and shall attempt to change the sacred seasons and the law; and they shall be given into his power for a time, two times, and half a time."

    New International Version: "He will speak against the Most High and oppress His saints and try to change the set times and laws."

    New Living Translation: "He will defy the Most High and wear down the holy people of the Most High. He will try to change their sacred festivals and laws, and they will be placed under his control for a time, times, and half a time."

    These verses say that there will be an attempt to make a change in something related to time: "times," "festival seasons," "sacred seasons," "set times," "sacred festivals," "time of sacred feasts and Holy Days" or "feast days., etc. etc. etc.

    Clearly, the activity of the little horn is to change God's holy appointments with His people. These appointed meeting times are a part of the covenant that the Lord made with His people. These sacred times are listed in Numbers 28:1 through 29:40. Numbers 28:1 begins with the command from God to Moses telling him to command the children of Israel to be careful to offer their offerings at their appointed time. The Lord was very specific about the time of His appointments. The chapter begins with the daily appointment (morning and evening), then the weekly appointment (Sabbath), then the monthly appointment (New Moon), then the seven annual appointments, (two during the Feast of Unleavened Bread in the spring of the year, one at Pentecost, and four in the fall of the year: the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement and two during the Feast of Tabernacles.) Each of the seven annual Sabbaths typified a different phase of the plan of salvation.

    The sacred times, including the daily (morning and evening) were a continual reminder through the year that the LORD was their: Daily Sacrifice (morning and evening) Creator (Sabbath), Tree of Life (New Moon), Redeemer and Justifier (Passover), Sanctification (Unleavened Bread), Resurrection (Firstfruits), Latter Rain (Pentecost), Sentinel (Trumpets), Judge and Advocate (Day of Atonement) Light, Water, Shelter, Provider and Saviour from this world (Tabernacles or Feast of Harvest). His promise to them was: if they would honor Him, then He would honor them with His presence.

    In Daniel 7:25 it is prophesied that the little horn power would change these divine appointments of God with His people. Why would he do this? The little horn would change these times and laws for the sole purpose of breaking the connection of God with His people. The fact that the little horn changes them leads one to conclude that there must be something to change to, a new set of times or sacred times or feasts. The little horn power, by setting up a new set of sacred times would, in reality, create a new religious calendar contrary to the calendar and express will of God. This is why, in the prophecy, it states that the little horn intends, thinks, tries, attempts, and has it in mind to alter times and law, for you can only think to change something that you cannot change. This is also why the prophecy says that the little horn speaks pompous words against the Most High. The little horn is working against the will of God by changing these times and laws.

    Within Christendom, there are ongoing debates into the idea of whether the Biblical sacred times terminated at the cross of Christ or not. The discoveries indicate that they did not cease at the cross per se, but continued to be kept well after the cross by the early Christian church. Furthermore, there is no scriptural evidence of their cessation at the cross; in fact, there are scriptures that indicate these sacred times continued to be observed. Here are some examples:

    "Therefore let us keep the feast (Unleavened Bread ..." (1 Cor. 5:8)

    "I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost" (1 Cor. 16:8)

    "And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread ..."(Acts 20:6)

    "Now when much time was spent, and when sailing was now dangerous, because the fast (Day of Atonement) was already past ..." (Acts 27:9)

    My point on this, which I seemed to not have delivered very well yesterday is that the "daily sacrifice" changed at the cross. At one time the Jews needed to offer burnt offerings daily to come into the presence of God daily, of course Daniel offered a "Daily Oblation" instead which means a tribute unto God, and God accepted it. At the cross Jesus became our continual sacrifice and no doubt, Peter, Paul and all the Jewish disciples seems to have still kept the appointed times, meaning at least twice daily they came before God and offered the DAILY (Jesus) SACRIFICE to keep them cleansed daily where they could enter in to God's presence. Thus even though the Jews bring back the "appointment times", it doesn't mean they have to offer twice daily burnt offerings per se. If Israel repents, and 1/3 do, then they can just worship Jesus and claim his "sacrifice" twice daily.

    The Taking Away of the Daily Sacrifice
    In Daniel 8 and 11 the word sacrifice follows daily - "the daily sacrifice." The word "sacrifice" is not in the original Hebrew text, and is therefore italicized. The translators of the King James Version added it about 2000 years later. The only way the translators could make sense of these texts was to add the word sacrifice to daily, thus connecting it to the evening and morning sacrificial offerings. The term evening and morning is mentioned twice in Daniel 8; therefore the translators concluded that the word sacrifice must belong to the word daily. However, the word daily can stand alone even with reference to the evening and morning. The evening and morning worship time can be kept without sacrificing a lamb. Daniel seems to indicate that he kept these daily appointments while in exile, as we will examine later. Paul, in the New Testament, states: Present yourself as a living sacrifice. (Rom 12:1)The death of Jesus brought an end to animal sacrifices, for the true Lamb (that they pointed to) had died for us, but - and this is a big question - did it bring an end to God's appointments with His people?

    I say No........the Jews have a covenant with God !! The only thing that has changed is that they now have a permanent sacrifice that allows them into the presence of God continually, but they still have to come before God twice daily like Daniel did. Thus when the Daily [Sacrifice] is taken away, it only means that the repentant Jews will not be allowed to worship Jesus in the Temple of God. There will be an "Image of the Beast" placed in the Temple and thus new guidelines to worship by. Notice, from the time the Daily is taken away AND the AoD is set up, there will be 1290 days [till these wonders end/Second Coming].

    I had a little more time today, I have been on this about two hours now. I hope you can see that I am only saying that the "Daily" that is taken away doesn't have to be burnt offerings per se. Since we are now in the grace period, post Jesus Christs death, we have no need for burnt offerings. nor do the Jews who repent during the Tribulation period.

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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Daily [sacrifice] refers to a continual cleansing of God's people daily, where they can come into the presence of God. This is not the yearly atonement that also is to cleanse God's Holy people. These were just two of many practices designed to keep Israel clean, because we all sin daily, even if by omission, by being of the flesh we sin daily.
    So now are you acknowledging a daily sacrifice?
    The AC is UNABLE to stop Jesus cleansing us.

    The understanding of these visions is to come at the end of time; therefore, any interpretation before the time of the end according to the prophecy must be incomplete and/or erroneous. Twice within the prophecy of chapter 8, Daniel is told that the taking away of the "daily" by the little horn happens at the end.
    Fully agree, the question is "Does anywhere in Dan 8 state WHEN that END occurs?"
    The answer is YES it does. Anyone who ignores CONTEXT of WHAT END is in view then ignores the very words given by God through the angel.
    Dan 8:23* And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise.

    Notice what it says? It says the END of their kingdom. This is the END which is meant in Daniel 8.

    My point on this, which I seemed to not have delivered very well yesterday is that the "daily sacrifice" changed at the cross. At one time the Jews needed to offer burnt offerings daily to come into the presence of God daily, of course Daniel offered a "Daily Oblation" instead which means a tribute unto God, and God accepted it. At the cross Jesus became our continual sacrifice and no doubt, Peter, Paul and all the Jewish disciples seems to have still kept the appointed times, meaning at least twice daily they came before God and offered the DAILY (Jesus) SACRIFICE to keep them cleansed daily where they could enter in to God's presence. Thus even though the Jews bring back the "appointment times", it doesn't mean they have to offer twice daily burnt offerings per se. If Israel repents, and 1/3 do, then they can just worship Jesus and claim his "sacrifice" twice daily.
    Sorry but the prophecy states that these daily's will be stopped. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the AC to stop YOUR claimed meaning of daily EVER. His sacrifice was once for ever.
    The simple FACT though is that Dan 8 is stated to be DURING the period of the FOUR kingdoms which followed AFTER the kingdom of the King of Greece.
    When we ACCEPT God's Word as TRUTH and accept that the angel told this TRUTH, and then start believing what we are told we discover that this happened in the time of A4E.

    The Taking Away of the Daily Sacrifice
    In Daniel 8 and 11 the word sacrifice follows daily - "the daily sacrifice." The word "sacrifice" is not in the original Hebrew text, and is therefore italicized. The translators of the King James Version added it about 2000 years later. The only way the translators could make sense of these texts was to add the word sacrifice to daily, thus connecting it to the evening and morning sacrificial offerings. The term evening and morning is mentioned twice in Daniel 8; therefore the translators concluded that the word sacrifice must belong to the word daily. However, the word daily can stand alone even with reference to the evening and morning. The evening and morning worship time can be kept without sacrificing a lamb. Daniel seems to indicate that he kept these daily appointments while in exile, as we will examine later. Paul, in the New Testament, states: Present yourself as a living sacrifice. (Rom 12:1)The death of Jesus brought an end to animal sacrifices, for the true Lamb (that they pointed to) had died for us, but - and this is a big question - did it bring an end to God's appointments with His people?
    All the translators did was clarify for people who don't understand Hebrew idiom.
    Translators can make mistakes.
    However throughout the OT the word "daily" is used for the "daily sacrifice".

    I say No........the Jews have a covenant with God !! The only thing that has changed is that they now have a permanent sacrifice that allows them into the presence of God continually, but they still have to come before God twice daily like Daniel did. Thus when the Daily [Sacrifice] is taken away, it only means that the repentant Jews will not be allowed to worship Jesus in the Temple of God. There will be an "Image of the Beast" placed in the Temple and thus new guidelines to worship by. Notice, from the time the Daily is taken away AND the AoD is set up, there will be 1290 days [till these wonders end/Second Coming].
    Wowsers, so now repentant Jews can only worship Jesus in the temple.

    I had a little more time today, I have been on this about two hours now. I hope you can see that I am only saying that the "Daily" that is taken away doesn't have to be burnt offerings per se. Since we are now in the grace period, post Jesus Christs death, we have no need for burnt offerings. nor do the Jews who repent during the Tribulation period.
    The simple solution is that given by the angel in Daniel 8.
    It happened a long time ago when daily sacrifices were required.

  12. #42
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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    If you really understand the nuance and language of scripture, then you'll realize that "and at that time" can easily refer to a time in the future. Not that you'll ever consider this since it upends your case.
    Actually I have a VERY good grasp of nuance and language of scripture.
    AT THAT TIME in Dan 12 is indeed speaking of a time in the future.
    Where you err is to then make it mean anything you want.
    AT THAT TIME simply means AT THE TIME something else occurs, THEN this will ALSO occur.
    This is what the usage of the language means.
    IOW there is one event which we are told about. We are now being told about another event in Dan 12:1 and this event mentioned in Dan 12:1 occurs AT THE SAME TIME as the other event mentioned.
    So all we need to do is understand what other event is mentioned.
    What TIME are we told about, a time when deliverance is needed, a time of tribulation.

    Now some then search ANY scripture for such a time, and then go, look there will be a time of tribulation just before Jesus returns, so let's make it be about that time.
    However that is not EXEGESIS but EISEGESIS.
    We have a CONTEXT and it is the verses in Dan 11.
    So is ANY part of Dan 11 future to us?

    BOTH of us agree that none of the events of Dan 11 are future. Therefore this means Dan 12 is speaking of a time in the past which was also spoken about in Dan 11.
    This leads us to the time of tribulation in the past:

    Dan 11:32* He shall seduce with flattery those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God shall stand firm and take action.*
    Dan 11:33* And the wise among the people shall make many understand, though for some days they shall stumble by sword and flame, by captivity and plunder.*
    Dan 11:34* When they stumble, they shall receive a little help. And many shall join themselves to them with flattery,*
    Dan 11:35* and some of the wise shall stumble, so that they may be refined, purified, and made white, until the time of the end, for it still awaits the appointed time.*

    All of this fits with Dan 12:1
    Further we read:
    Dan 11:29* “At the time appointed he shall return and come into the south, but it shall not be this time as it was before.*
    Dan 11:30* For ships of Kittim shall come against him, and he shall be afraid and withdraw, and shall turn back and be enraged and take action against the holy covenant. He shall turn back and pay attention to those who forsake the holy covenant.*
    Dan 11:31* Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate.*

    Notice the CONTEXT - it is about an AoD.

    What does Dan 12 further tell us?:
    Dan 12:11* And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.*
    Dan 12:12* Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.

    So we have multiple verses confirming the TIMING of Dan 12:1 none of which speaks of a future AoD.
    This is ALL in the past.

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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    So now are you acknowledging a daily sacrifice?
    The AC is UNABLE to stop Jesus cleansing us.
    They take it away in the Temple of God. It's like a Roman Rite so to speak, it's a public event. Of course they can't stop them in private, but they are trying to change the "CULTURE" like Jason tried to Hellenize the Jews over 2000 years ago. Jesus has died, why would there need to be a "burnt offering" in the future to a people who have by that time repented ? The DAILY is just the Jews fulfilling their custom, bit instead of offering a burnt offering, which would be an Abomination in itself, they will honor/tribute Jesus their SACRIFICE !! The key here is understanding when Israel repents. Its about the Temple of God being defiled remember, NO US/THE Jews as individuals.

    Fully agree, the question is "Does anywhere in Dan 8 state WHEN that END occurs?"
    The answer is YES it does. Anyone who ignores CONTEXT of WHAT END is in view then ignores the very words given by God through the angel.
    Dan 8:23* And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise.

    Notice what it says? It says the END of their kingdom. This is the END which is meant in Daniel 8.
    The Four Generals took over a massive Kingdom, but like Persia and Babylon they lived on as Dan. 7:12 states. Verse 11 states that the last Beast (Little Horn) is cast into hell, then in verse 12 we are told that the other Beasts, when they lost their Dominion, carried on for a time and season meaning what ?

    Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

    It means the rest of the Beasts lost Dominion but continued on as Kingdoms in diminished capacities. Babylon was Conquered by Alexander the Great who chose to live there, in essence they were his quasi capital for a time. Persia is Iran today, Rome became the state of Italy eventually and of course the Grecia Kingdoms eventually were overtaken by Rome and Grecia retreated to her original homeland, where she resides as a nation (Kingdom) to this day !! It's just a fact, Greece is still Greece. So in the LATTER END OF THEIR KINGDOM means the end times, when Jesus returns because God's INDIGNATION (anger at sins) has come full. So when the TRANSGRESSORS have reached their limit is referring to God's Wrath overflowing.

    When Egypt was promised the Canaan Land God told them they had to wait until the Canaanites SINS HAD COME FULL for God to give them the Canaanites land. Thus they sojourned in Egypt for 400 years, then when they were brought out of Egypt and given the lan those tribes were pure evil, they were sacrificing the kids to demons, marrying theirs kids, aunts, uncles, fathers and mothers and even commiting beastiality. So God will send Jesus back when the TRANSGRESSORS or Sinners sins have come full.

    He has a stern face (Anti-Christ), he understands DARK SENTENCES (Riddles and Conundrums) tells us he has dark powers. Greece is still around !! Daniel 7:12 tells us these BEASTS lose dominion but LIVE ON sister.

    Think of this, in Dan. 11:36-45 we are told this man will worship NO GOD but yet Antiochus worshiped Zeus and sacrificed a pig on the Altar of God. It's not him sister. The little Horn of the End Times arises with the end time 10 Toes. He will be an Assyrian, (read Isaiah 10), thus of Turkish descent, born in Greece who comes to power in his E.U. Nation ! If we read further in Daniel 8 we see that he fits many other traits of the Anti-Christ.

    24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power(Exactly what Rev. 13 says): and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people (Antiochus barley made a dent, the Beast/Little Horn will kill 2/3 of the Jews).

    25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart Beast does this), and by peace shall destroy many Antiochus never never tricked people with FAKE PEACE: he shall also stand up against the Prince(Jesus) of princes; but he shall be broken without hand (By the Holy Spirit just like in Dan. ch. 2 where the Rock destroys the Statue.

    Sorry but the prophecy states that these daily's will be stopped. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the AC to stop YOUR claimed meaning of daily EVER. His sacrifice was once for ever.
    The simple FACT though is that Dan 8 is stated to be DURING the period of the FOUR kingdoms which followed AFTER the kingdom of the King of Greece.
    When we ACCEPT God's Word as TRUTH and accept that the angel told this TRUTH, and then start believing what we are told we discover that this happened in the time of A4E.
    The Daily in the TEMPLE is stopped and the Beasts IMAGE (AoD) is placed there. Of course God's presence leaves the Temple. Its not about individuals, its about PROFANING THE Temple of God.

    There are 5 Kingdoms there, the Four Beasts and he Little Horn and 10 Kings which arise 2000 years later. The Anti Christ is future, as is Daniel 8.

    All the translators did was clarify for people who don't understand Hebrew idiom.
    Translators can make mistakes.
    However throughout the OT the word "daily" is used for the "daily sacrifice".
    You aren't getting it........if it was a SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME...........Then Jesus came..........When Israel repent why would they not use that which the SHADOW (Burnt offering) was pointing towards ? Jesus is their sacrifice !! After they acknowledge it why SACRIFICE ANIMALS ?

    Wowsers, so now repentant Jews can only worship Jesus in the temple.
    NO...........But the temple is what is PROFANED by the False Prophet/Beast/Image. The Jews are to FLEE Judea when they see this sign/event.

    The simple solution is that given by the angel in Daniel 8.
    It happened a long time ago when daily sacrifices were required.
    Sister, as a man of God who has done this a very long time, all I can tell you is Dan. 7 and Dan. 8 are speaking bout the same Little Horn.

    God Bless.

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    Re: Explaining the 1335, 1290 and 1260 of Daniel chapter 12

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    They take it away in the Temple of God. It's like a Roman Rite so to speak, it's a public event.
    I don't think it is worth debating this anymore.
    You are now claiming that to receive cleansing is a public event to be held in a temple yet you also argue it is Jesus' cleansing. So are you now saying there is a daily church service which is what the AC stops and that this becomes an AoD.
    How far will you stretch your speculation, instead of accepting His Word?

    It means the rest of the Beasts lost Dominion but continued on as Kingdoms in diminished capacities. Babylon was Conquered by Alexander the Great who chose to live there, in essence they were his quasi capital for a time. Persia is Iran today, Rome became the state of Italy eventually and of course the Grecia Kingdoms eventually were overtaken by Rome and Grecia retreated to her original homeland, where she resides as a nation (Kingdom) to this day !! It's just a fact, Greece is still Greece. So in the LATTER END OF THEIR KINGDOM means the end times, when Jesus returns because God's INDIGNATION (anger at sins) has come full. So when the TRANSGRESSORS have reached their limit is referring to God's Wrath overflowing.
    Bizarre!
    When a KING DOM loses its KING and no longer has DOMinion, what is left?
    NO KINGDOM for certain. The peoples live on, the nation potentially, but the KINGDOM itself is GONE.
    The latter end of the kingdom speaks of BEFORE it loses its King and BEFORE it loses Dominion.
    Dan 7 is NOT the SAME vision as Dan 8.

    Sister, as a man of God who has done this a very long time, all I can tell you is Dan. 7 and Dan. 8 are speaking bout the same Little Horn.
    God Bless.
    As someone who studies His Word, I can tell you very simply that Dan 7 little horn is on the FOURTH beast, but Dan 8 little horn is NOT, it is on the Leopard Beast - the Beast with four horns, NOT the beast with 10 horns.
    Pay a little bit of attention to what you are told by the angel and you will gain knowledge and understanding.

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