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Thread: Marriage and the church

  1. #1
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    Marriage and the church

    I had a friend who did not believe in the institute of marriage. With other words he did not believe that to be married you had to be married in a church in front of a minister or pastor or even a judge. He believed you only had to be married in front of God, you do not have to have witnesses. According to him if you have promised to God that you take this woman to be your wife, then you were married and do not need anything else.

    I have found that a marriage according to God is when a man leaves his parents and cleave to his wife, then they are married.

    Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.


    Now we also know that God had given the authority to the church to bind and loose anything on earth and it shall be in heaven also.

    Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    Now the question is if the church only acknowledge a marriage if it is done by a minister in front of witnesses, then if you do not do this, you are not married because it is bound on earth to be married by a minister in front of witnesses. Any other marriage is not recognized and the consequence would be that you are living in sin if you have a sexual relationship. You will be seen as a fornicator.

    Do you agree with this and if not, why not?

  2. #2
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    Re: Marriage and the church

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    I had a friend who did not believe in the institute of marriage. With other words he did not believe that to be married you had to be married in a church in front of a minister or pastor or even a judge. He believed you only had to be married in front of God, you do not have to have witnesses. According to him if you have promised to God that you take this woman to be your wife, then you were married and do not need anything else.

    I have found that a marriage according to God is when a man leaves his parents and cleave to his wife, then they are married.

    Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.


    Now we also know that God had given the authority to the church to bind and loose anything on earth and it shall be in heaven also.

    Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    Now the question is if the church only acknowledge a marriage if it is done by a minister in front of witnesses, then if you do not do this, you are not married because it is bound on earth to be married by a minister in front of witnesses. Any other marriage is not recognized and the consequence would be that you are living in sin if you have a sexual relationship. You will be seen as a fornicator.

    Do you agree with this and if not, why not?
    I think that getting married in church or registry office is just for legal reasons.
    So the law of the land can deal with divorce and assets.
    And things like pensions and monies.

    It's also a way of the church making money.

    I think they are classed as married and still under the same law in the bible if they so wish.
    But if one should perish suddenly then the spouse would have no legal right to property or pensions etc.

    We should obey the law of the land as long as it does not go against God's law.

  3. #3
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    Re: Marriage and the church

    I agree with Marlin.

    In my country, the US, married couples are required to have a license, just like a fishing or hunting license. The government should have never stuck its nose in the marriage business in the first place. But because they did and because the Bible says to obey authority [unless that authority is asking you to sin], then I feel married couples should have that license.

    But that's as far as it goes for me.

    I'm a church pianist and have played the piano for countless church weddings and they are all so filled with unnecessary things that we have MADE necessary and brain-washed ourselves into being required by God.

    Here in the South, the church doesn't make money off of weddings - a pastor may or may not and musicians may or may not. But, here in the South, we have turned church weddings into almost a religious requirement.

    Jesus Christ pointedly drew a line in the sand between being married and being shacked up when he spoke with the woman at the well about her being married 5 times and her just living with her current man.

    So there is a difference. What that difference is, I believe, is FAR more simpler than what church weddings entail. Personally, for me, just pay for that piece of paper required by law and get it signed and you are married.
    ".....it's your nickel"

  4. #4
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    Re: Marriage and the church

    Well since there was no church minister at Cana where Jesus turned water into wine, I’ll say “no” to the OP’s question.

  5. #5
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    Re: Marriage and the church

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    I had a friend who did not believe in the institute of marriage. With other words he did not believe that to be married you had to be married in a church in front of a minister or pastor or even a judge. He believed you only had to be married in front of God, you do not have to have witnesses. According to him if you have promised to God that you take this woman to be your wife, then you were married and do not need anything else.

    I have found that a marriage according to God is when a man leaves his parents and cleave to his wife, then they are married.

    Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.


    Now we also know that God had given the authority to the church to bind and loose anything on earth and it shall be in heaven also.

    Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    Now the question is if the church only acknowledge a marriage if it is done by a minister in front of witnesses, then if you do not do this, you are not married because it is bound on earth to be married by a minister in front of witnesses. Any other marriage is not recognized and the consequence would be that you are living in sin if you have a sexual relationship. You will be seen as a fornicator.

    Do you agree with this and if not, why not?
    You are correct. Marriage is a union of the flesh and does not need anything else except that the couple stay together. Let us examine the verse. I will post that of Matthew 19:5-6 by our Lord Jesus Himself:

    5 "And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
    6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."


    The conditions of marriage before God are;
    1. The man must leave his previous union. He is the product of a very close union. His father became one flesh with his mother. His father's seed impregnated his mother's seed. His mother bore him bodily for 9 months. His mother breast fed him. His father and mother educated him in their household for about 20 years. It is a deep and intimate union. It must be "LEFT".
    2. The Hebrew and Greek for "Cleave" has the connotation of GLUE. They are never to be separated. If a man is one flesh with a woman but does not "Cleave" to her, that is fornication.
    3. The union of man and woman becomes deeper than that of the father's household. They become ONE FLESH. Despite the previous union of the father's household being so close, the man was never ONE FLESH with his parents. Thus, that of a man and wife is closer.
    4. When the conditions are met, God JOINS them. The union is ratified in Heaven by none other than the Almighty. To break this union is to deeply disobey the Almighty.

    Added to these, the following is noteworthy.
    • The authority of the Church is the "Keys of the KINGDOM" - not life in this age. It only carries authority in deciding if a man or woman is to be excommunicated or not. Their decision (the Church - not the Elders) is binding in the coming Millennial Kingdom. It has nothing to do with marriage and the other issues of life. A Christian man should only consider the leading of the Holy Spirit when choosing his bride. The Church dares not usurp Christ's position as Head.
    • Israel was given Covenants. But the "Disciples" of Jesus should not make vows or promises. Any vow to a man or woman or to God is rebellion against the direct command of Jesus - Head of the Christians. Matthew 5:33-37 ends with, "... let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
    • Your friend might say that he does not believe in the "institute of marriage". Well done. It is not an "Institution". But married he is in God's eyes, and thus all the universe. And further, he partakes of a TYPE of the Union of the universe - Christ and the Church. Is there a closer union of the creature than this?

  6. #6
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    Re: Marriage and the church

    The Bible identifies Pontus Pilate’s wife as his wife. If the Bible acknowledges an unbeliever’s marriage, then obviously the authority that recognizes marriage lies outside of the church.

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    Re: Marriage and the church

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    The Bible identifies Pontus Pilate’s wife as his wife. If the Bible acknowledges an unbeliever’s marriage, then obviously the authority that recognizes marriage lies outside of the church.
    Perfect example! .

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    Re: Marriage and the church

    From what I understand about oaths in the OT, they are only valid if a witness is present. So at the absolute minimum I think you need someone else to preside over the marriage - a pastor, judge, parent, guardian, etc. depending on the culture - any third party authority who can confirm the oath took place. Simply you cannot proclaim yourself married.
    여러분은 주님 안에서 항상 기뻐하십시오. 내가 다시 말합니다. 기뻐하십시오.
    모든 사람을 너그럽게 대하십시오. 주님께서 오실 날이 가까웠습니다. Philippians 4


  9. #9
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    Re: Marriage and the church

    It is the fruit of our perfidy, and that of Satan, that we always want to usurp that which is God's. To do this, we develop "TRADITIONS". That is, man-made rituals, ways and means. The Lord Jesus is scathing about men's traditions. In Mark 7:13 it is; "Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye."
    • Vows, Justice of the Peace, Ceremonies, Magistrates, Lawyers and Nuptial Contracts are the traditions of men. And these REPLACE what God has set forth.
    • Many do not break the union with their father's house. They put their father and mother's requests before that of their wives
    • Many make vows, although these are forbidden
    • Many sign Books and Contracts, but marriage is "becoming one flesh and cleaving to one another"
    • The divorce rate among Christians in the West is about 45% - only 5% less than the heathen. Men break what God joined
    • The only thing that is Biblical is a Wedding Feast - to rejoice at the Love-union. And Wine is recommended to be merry (which will trash the "traditions" of the Christian-made laws against alcohol)

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    Re: Marriage and the church

    I still believe what I've said previously. If God honored vows in the OT, and He did, this indicates He recognizes a simple promise. If a man and woman promise commitment to one another before God, He acknowledges it. There are then added responsibilities that go along with the vow of commitment. It is living together, serving one another, and living by the rules of holy living.

    It is a different question as to whether a couple should get legally married in the eyes of the law. If it is a religious state, legal marriage sets the marriage apart as a specifically Christian marriage. If it is another kind of religious state, or a secular state, the marriage achieves recognition by the state for legal purposes, just as any contract would that is recognized by the state.

    In my state, the U.S., the idea of marriage is not strictly religious, and courts may find that a contract has been undertaken by a couple, whether by legal marriage or not. To not get legally married, however, may indicate to the state and to the public, that a religious commitment has not been made, which involves a perpetual commitment. For example, to not get legally married by the state might be construed to be a *non-perpetual commitment,* indicating that this is *not* a religious commitment.

    In this case it might be best for Christians to get married legally so that the State and the public recognize that this is a Christian marriage with a contract being undertaken in that way. But for me, it all comes down to a contract being made before God, which is a vow. And the Bible recognizes vows.

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    Re: Marriage and the church

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I still believe what I've said previously. If God honored vows in the OT, and He did, this indicates He recognizes a simple promise. If a man and woman promise commitment to one another before God, He acknowledges it. There are then added responsibilities that go along with the vow of commitment. It is living together, serving one another, and living by the rules of holy living.

    It is a different question as to whether a couple should get legally married in the eyes of the law. If it is a religious state, legal marriage sets the marriage apart as a specifically Christian marriage. If it is another kind of religious state, or a secular state, the marriage achieves recognition by the state for legal purposes, just as any contract would that is recognized by the state.

    In my state, the U.S., the idea of marriage is not strictly religious, and courts may find that a contract has been undertaken by a couple, whether by legal marriage or not. To not get legally married, however, may indicate to the state and to the public, that a religious commitment has not been made, which involves a perpetual commitment. For example, to not get legally married by the state might be construed to be a *non-perpetual commitment,* indicating that this is *not* a religious commitment.

    In this case it might be best for Christians to get married legally so that the State and the public recognize that this is a Christian marriage with a contract being undertaken in that way. But for me, it all comes down to a contract being made before God, which is a vow. And the Bible recognizes vows.
    The weakness of your theory is immediately exposed if we insert it into marriage. Try this reversal and see if it makes sense according to scripture;
    • God says that although He commanded His Son Jesus to BAN vows among His disciples, He demands one for marriage.
    • God said that to be married you must take a vow. Unless a vow is taken - no marriage in God's eyes
    • God says that marriage is a "promise of commitment"
    • God says that the State decides who is married or not - no State contract - no marriage
    • God says that if the marriage is not legally accepted by the State, it is no marriage
    • God says the State, vows, contracts and commitments JOIN the pair - not Him
    • God says the State is higher than Him. If you have all the approvals, vows, contracts and s commitment, but do NOT COPULATE, it is STILL MARRIAGE
    • God says that He made a mistake with Isaac and Rebekah. He said that Rebekah became Isaac's wife. But they had no State, made no contract recognized by the State, made no vows, had no ceremony and promised no commitment.

    May the reader judge.

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