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Thread: HEBREWS 8 WHEN?

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    HEBREWS 8 WHEN?

    So when does the covenant found in Hebrews 8 come to pass?


    HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I WILL BE TO THEM A GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE TO ME A PEOPLE:

  2. #2
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    Re: HEBREWS 8 WHEN?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    So when does the covenant found in Hebrews 8 come to pass?


    HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I WILL BE TO THEM A GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE TO ME A PEOPLE:
    Hi, and welcome to the Forum.

    The answer is in the text. It is "the days" when the House of Israel (the ten northern Tribes who were deported by Assyria), and the House of Judah (the two southern Tribes who were deported by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon about 120 years later), are one nation again. As this only happens AFTER the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus, it is still future.

    As I pointed out in a recent thread, we should not mix the TIME when the Covenant comes into effect with the TIME when it was RATIFIED. All Covenant between God and fallen men must be ratified in blood. The New Covenant was RATIFIED by Christ's blood on Golgotha. The previous Covenant of LAW was RATIFIED by blood in Exodus 24:8. There was also a time delay for the Law. For instance, the Law regarding Israel's king were moot until Saul came some 500 years later. So also the New Covenant. It is RATIFIED by Christ's blood, but put in Force more than 2,000 years later.

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    Re: HEBREWS 8 WHEN?

    New Covenant
    When the disciples received the Holy Ghost in Acts 2, what was the reference to Joel about? And what about the part in the last verse (2:21) “that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved?”

    Acts 2:16-21: “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

    Has there been any era where that has happened? Joel chapter 1 speaks about the devastation of the earth and the Day of the Lord (Future events).

    Then Joel 2 ends with: 31: “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.” 32: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.”

    Many say we are already in God’s new covenant that was prophesied in the OT and in Acts/Hebrews.

    Heb. 8:7-13 “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

    Jer. 31:31-34 “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

    Do you see the direct link between Jeremiah and Hebrews? What about the parallels in Acts and Joel?

    Acts 2:16-18 “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”

    First a time frame in Joel: Joel 2:1 “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;”

    Next, It speaks of a restoration after the Day of the Lord. Then we are given a picture of the new covenant:

    Joel 2:28, 29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.”

    What can we conclude from this? What we have today is not the New Covenant God was talking about. Not yet. The way I read that is everyone that calls on the Lord will have salvation. Surely, that is not today. So, when is it?
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

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    Re: HEBREWS 8 WHEN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    New Covenant
    When the disciples received the Holy Ghost in Acts 2, what was the reference to Joel about? And what about the part in the last verse (2:21) “that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved?”

    Acts 2:16-21: “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

    Has there been any era where that has happened? Joel chapter 1 speaks about the devastation of the earth and the Day of the Lord (Future events).

    Then Joel 2 ends with: 31: “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.” 32: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.”

    Many say we are already in God’s new covenant that was prophesied in the OT and in Acts/Hebrews.

    Heb. 8:7-13 “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

    Jer. 31:31-34 “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

    Do you see the direct link between Jeremiah and Hebrews? What about the parallels in Acts and Joel?

    Acts 2:16-18 “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”

    First a time frame in Joel: Joel 2:1 “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;”

    Next, It speaks of a restoration after the Day of the Lord. Then we are given a picture of the new covenant:

    Joel 2:28, 29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.”

    What can we conclude from this? What we have today is not the New Covenant God was talking about. Not yet. The way I read that is everyone that calls on the Lord will have salvation. Surely, that is not today. So, when is it?
    With all due respect, the New Covenant *is* the salvation of Christ. When Jesus shed his blood on the cross, and died, he was offering his blood as an atonement for our sins. This *is* the New Covenant.

    I don't have a problem with Jeremiah 31, speaking of a future day when this NT salvation will ultimately come to apply to Israel *as a nation.* But legally, the NT came into effect at the cross. And the Holy Spirit confirmed this to us by anointing us not just with the eternal life we were promised, but also with the power to proclaim it to others.

    The Joel passage begins with an alarming historical judgment of locusts, which literally wiped out masses of people. Without food they would starve! And then God used this to predict that a much greater judgment is coming at the end of the age--the Day of the Lord. This is the day when God will decide who will be forgiven, and who will not.

    And so, Joel speaks of what precedes that Day. It is the message of repentance given to the world so that men may not have to endure judgment in the Day of the Lord. The visions, dreams, and prophecies of the Church are what prepare men for this final judgment. And we are empowered with the Holy Spirit to show forth this eternal life that we have, and the power in our message to grant life to others, if they repent of the sins of this age.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    New Covenant
    When the disciples received the Holy Ghost in Acts 2, what was the reference to Joel about? And what about the part in the last verse (2:21) “that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved?”

    Acts 2:16-21: “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

    Has there been any era where that has happened? Joel chapter 1 speaks about the devastation of the earth and the Day of the Lord (Future events).

    Then Joel 2 ends with: 31: “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.” 32: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.”

    Many say we are already in God’s new covenant that was prophesied in the OT and in Acts/Hebrews.

    Heb. 8:7-13 “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

    Jer. 31:31-34 “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

    Do you see the direct link between Jeremiah and Hebrews? What about the parallels in Acts and Joel?

    Acts 2:16-18 “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”

    First a time frame in Joel: Joel 2:1 “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;”

    Next, It speaks of a restoration after the Day of the Lord. Then we are given a picture of the new covenant:

    Joel 2:28, 29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.”

    What can we conclude from this? What we have today is not the New Covenant God was talking about. Not yet. The way I read that is everyone that calls on the Lord will have salvation. Surely, that is not today. So, when is it?
    With all due respect, the New Covenant *is* the salvation of Christ. When Jesus shed his blood on the cross, and died, he was offering his blood as an atonement for our sins. This *is* the New Covenant.

    I don't have a problem with Jeremiah 31, speaking of a future day when this NT salvation will ultimately come to apply to Israel *as a nation.* But legally, the NT came into effect at the cross. And the Holy Spirit confirmed this to us by anointing us not just with the eternal life we were promised, but also with the power to proclaim it to others.

    The Joel passage begins with an alarming historical judgment of locusts, which literally wiped out masses of people. Without food they would starve! And then God used this to predict that a much greater judgment is coming at the end of the age--the Day of the Lord. This is the day when God will decide who will be forgiven, and who will not.

    And so, Joel speaks of what precedes that Day. It is the message of repentance given to the world so that men may not have to endure judgment in the Day of the Lord. The visions, dreams, and prophecies of the Church are what prepare men for this final judgment. And we are empowered with the Holy Spirit to show forth this eternal life that we have, and the power in our message to grant life to others, if they repent of the sins of this age.

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