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Thread: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same time

  1. #16
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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    The major problem I have with that is, we're not supposed to be able to calculate the day of the 2nd Coming! How do you deal with that? For what it's worth, Antiochus 4 fits the 1290 day time period as well, although the 1335 days is a little more difficult.
    Well that should tell you the Rapture is the Day and Hour we are not supposed to be able to calculate, not the Second Coming. We know when the Beast Conquers Jerusalem he has exactly 1260 days to rule, that will be it for him. That lets us know the Rapture;s timing isn't known but the Second Coming's timing is known.

  2. #17
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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    The major problem I have with that is, we're not supposed to be able to calculate the day of the 2nd Coming! How do you deal with that? For what it's worth, Antiochus 4 fits the 1290 day time period as well, although the 1335 days is a little more difficult.
    As a post trib, I believe we are in an indefinite period as we await the gospel preached to all nations. The entire creation awaits the spread of the gospel, the mandate of the church. Only the Father can determine that it is finished. Only the Father knows that day. Jesus is clear, no-one else knows the day of the second coming/resurrection/rapture (post-trib view is they are the same day).

    Then suddenly as per Rev 12, we overcome by our testimony and Satan is suddenly removed from heaven, comes crashing down for 1260 days of wrath. On the same day the restrainer is suddenly removed and the beast starts his 42 months of rule (2 Thess 2/Rev 13).

    I have not concluded concerning the 1335 days, but Revelation Man is certainly correct about the "30 day warning" of the 1290 days. So in a way the Father in his foreknowledge gives us a 30 day heads-up before the antichrist starts his reign. That event is the abomination, I feel it is the opening ceremony and starting of the sacrifices in a rebuilt temple. For Christians it is an abomination that we support an outdated system not applicable to this age, as if encouraging Jews to have alternative sacrifices to Jesus. To the world, the wholesale slaughter of animals in this modern world will be an abomination. Everyone will look upon the events there in abhorrence, except for some naive Christians and Orthodox Jews who think animal sacrifices have some value in this age of salvation through the act of the crucifixion.

    30 days later the antichrist comes to power and stops the sacrifices, hero to the world. So I agree that only the Father knows, we are in an indefinite age of gospel to the Gentiles, but soon the Jewish timeframe will reboot.

  3. #18
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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I think its pretty clear....

    The 1335 happens 1335 days before the Second Coming. (In my opinion its the Two-witnesses, they die BEFORE the Beast dies so have to show up before he does. A BLESSING)

    The 1290 happens 1290 days before the Second Coming. (I think Jesus gives the Jews a clue, they need to Flee BEFORE the Beast takes over/conquers them. He will kill them.)

    The 1260 happens 1260 days before the Second Coming. (The Beast Conquers Jerusalem/Israel and Beasts over the Mediterranean Sea Region.)
    The problem with such a claim is that we are TOLD when the count of the 1290 days AND the START of the 1335 days is.
    BOTH start from the time of the AoD:
    Dan 12:11* And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.*
    Dan 12:12* Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.

    So to claim that the START time is different is contrary to scripture in which it is given.

    As to the 1260 days, we have two of these.
    One lot is in connection with the Woman, the other is in connection with the 2W.
    Some therefore erroneously say that because BOTH are for 1260 days that this makes them speak of the SAME time.
    However the 2W are BEFORE the Woman flees.
    So the second lot of 1260 days is shortly after the AoD occurs and ends when the 42 months of the Beast ends.

  4. #19
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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    As a post trib, I believe we are in an indefinite period as we await the gospel preached to all nations. The entire creation awaits the spread of the gospel, the mandate of the church. Only the Father can determine that it is finished. Only the Father knows that day. Jesus is clear, no-one else knows the day of the second coming/resurrection/rapture (post-trib view is they are the same day).

    Then suddenly as per Rev 12, we overcome by our testimony and Satan is suddenly removed from heaven, comes crashing down for 1260 days of wrath. On the same day the restrainer is suddenly removed and the beast starts his 42 months of rule (2 Thess 2/Rev 13).

    I have not concluded concerning the 1335 days, but Revelation Man is certainly correct about the "30 day warning" of the 1290 days. So in a way the Father in his foreknowledge gives us a 30 day heads-up before the antichrist starts his reign. That event is the abomination, I feel it is the opening ceremony and starting of the sacrifices in a rebuilt temple. For Christians it is an abomination that we support an outdated system not applicable to this age, as if encouraging Jews to have alternative sacrifices to Jesus. To the world, the wholesale slaughter of animals in this modern world will be an abomination. Everyone will look upon the events there in abhorrence, except for some naive Christians and Orthodox Jews who think animal sacrifices have some value in this age of salvation through the act of the crucifixion.

    30 days later the antichrist comes to power and stops the sacrifices, hero to the world. So I agree that only the Father knows, we are in an indefinite age of gospel to the Gentiles, but soon the Jewish timeframe will reboot.
    It sounds as if you are a proponent of the "two periods of 3.5 years" theory? Are you saying there is an initial period of 1290 days, with a "waiting period" of 30 days before the Antichrist appears? If so, I can't see that anywhere in the account.

    As for a rebuilt temple, I can't say I know. Paul does say Antichrist will take his seat in God's temple. If it does get rebuilt, then I suppose Antichrist will take his seat there. Or, it won't be rebuilt and there is some other explanation for his "sitting in God's temple."

    I really don't have good answers for some of this. But I appreciate your thoughts on it.

  5. #20
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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Well that should tell you the Rapture is the Day and Hour we are not supposed to be able to calculate, not the Second Coming. We know when the Beast Conquers Jerusalem he has exactly 1260 days to rule, that will be it for him. That lets us know the Rapture;s timing isn't known but the Second Coming's timing is known.
    Yes, I should've known that was your position. It just never made sense to me, because the passage in question, having to do with "not knowing" the timing of his Coming, specifically refers to the 2nd Coming, and not to an preceding event. But I suppose you're using some kind of circular argument to prove to the contrary? I really don't see a premature "Rapture" event mentioned anywhere! It makes more sense to me to see the Rapture as synonymous with the 2nd Coming, and that the 1260 days of Antichrist's rule as extending past the existence of his empire, before he is actually defeated. In Rev 11, this appears to be an undetermined period of time, thus making the 2nd Coming beyond predictability.

    Rev 11.14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.

  6. #21
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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The problem with such a claim is that we are TOLD when the count of the 1290 days AND the START of the 1335 days is.
    BOTH start from the time of the AoD:
    Dan 12:11* And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.*
    Dan 12:12* Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.

    So to claim that the START time is different is contrary to scripture in which it is given.

    As to the 1260 days, we have two of these.
    One lot is in connection with the Woman, the other is in connection with the 2W.
    Some therefore erroneously say that because BOTH are for 1260 days that this makes them speak of the SAME time.
    However the 2W are BEFORE the Woman flees.
    So the second lot of 1260 days is shortly after the AoD occurs and ends when the 42 months of the Beast ends.
    The AoD is the Abomination of Desolation and it happens 1290 days before the Second Coming, not at the 1260 as most always assumed, when the Beast Conquers Israel. If the Beast is allowed to go forth Conquering by Jesus (First Seal) why would he allow the Jews to leave Israel/Jerusalem ? He wouldn't, therefore the AoD Jesus warns of happens before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem. The AoD is placed in the Temple by the False Prophet/High Priest who is like unto Jason the High Priest during Antiochus Epiphanes' time, who tried to Hellenize the Jews. Rev. 13 confirms this, the False Prophet places an IMAGE of the Beast and demands that all worship him as God.

    Now that that is out of the way I can address the timing. The Jews are said to be Conquered and when this happens Jesus/man in linen tells us there will be 1260 days (time, times and half) until all these things end. This mean that the Beast Conquers Jerusalem/Jews at the Midway point of the 70th Week, and from the time he Conquers to become the Beast, there is 1260 days left until the Second Coming.

    Now is where it gets tricky......Why do you assume these other two numbers are associated with the starting of the 1260 ? Daniel asks a very pertinent question that people overlook I think.............................Jesus has already told Daniel that after the Joly People are Conquered there will be 1260 days until these WONDERS CEASE (Second Coming) Daniel asks this: Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

    9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

    The same question is asked as the one in verse 6, when shall these end or WHAT SHALL BE THE END OF THESE THINGS !! The Jesus tells about two more things he is not repeating the 1260 event which is the Conquering of the Holy People, he tells us about an AoD event and an Event that is a BLESSING.

    The Daily [sacrifice] and the Abomination of Desolation are just like the 1260 Event, a set number of days until the Second Coming. I take it the Daily and AoD happen at the exact same time. When this happens there is 1290 days until the Second Coming and thus 30 days until the Beast Conquers Jerusalem/Israel.

    Likewise the 1335 BLESSING is, IMHO, the Two-Witness, they show up 1335 days before the Second Coming. The clues are further enhanced because Elijah must show up before the DOTL and they also die before the Beast dies. Thus they show up 75 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem, and 45 days before the AoD, this makes sense, how would Israel know to FLEE Judea if the had not read Matthew 24 ? The Jews (2/3 do) repent, then they flee, then the Beast Conquers Jerusalem.

    As per explaining it in simple terms, I did that above.

  7. #22
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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, I should've known that was your position. It just never made sense to me, because the passage in question, having to do with "not knowing" the timing of his Coming, specifically refers to the 2nd Coming, and not to an preceding event. But I suppose you're using some kind of circular argument to prove to the contrary? I really don't see a premature "Rapture" event mentioned anywhere! It makes more sense to me to see the Rapture as synonymous with the 2nd Coming, and that the 1260 days of Antichrist's rule as extending past the existence of his empire, before he is actually defeated. In Rev 11, this appears to be an undetermined period of time, thus making the 2nd Coming beyond predictability.

    Rev 11.14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.
    Well it should be just the opposite, it shouldn't make any sense why we wouldn't know whe the Second Coming is, its 1260 days after the Beast Conquers Jerusalem. There is a COUNTDOWN 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and the 7 Vials, when we get to the 5th Vial, we know the Kings will be gathered to Armageddon, that will e visible in real time and then Jesus will show up on Mt Zion. The only reason it is even said that the Bridegroom doesn't know he day nor the hour is because the Father, whose house the Bridal Chambers is in, always decides when to send the Groom to get the Bride, and they spend 7 days (7 Years) in the Bridal Chambers in the Fathers (Heaven) house.

    John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    We go to be with Jesus in Heaven, just like Rev. 19 points out, we return with Jesus from our Heavenly abode.

    The 3rd Woe is the 7th Trumpet, read Rev. 8 last verse, it says the last three woes will come from the last three trumpets when they sound.

    Thus the 3rd Woe is all 7 Vials combined. Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation about the Two-witnesses, it's not a real time event per se as per being a part of the Chronological Order of the Book of Revelation.

  8. #23
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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Well it should be just the opposite, it shouldn't make any sense why we wouldn't know whe the Second Coming is, its 1260 days after the Beast Conquers Jerusalem. There is a COUNTDOWN 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and the 7 Vials, when we get to the 5th Vial, we know the Kings will be gathered to Armageddon, that will e visible in real time and then Jesus will show up on Mt Zion. The only reason it is even said that the Bridegroom doesn't know he day nor the hour is because the Father, whose house the Bridal Chambers is in, always decides when to send the Groom to get the Bride, and they spend 7 days (7 Years) in the Bridal Chambers in the Fathers (Heaven) house.

    John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    We go to be with Jesus in Heaven, just like Rev. 19 points out, we return with Jesus from our Heavenly abode.

    The 3rd Woe is the 7th Trumpet, read Rev. 8 last verse, it says the last three woes will come from the last three trumpets when they sound.

    Thus the 3rd Woe is all 7 Vials combined. Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation about the Two-witnesses, it's not a real time event per se as per being a part of the Chronological Order of the Book of Revelation.
    The prophecy of the 2 Witnesses represents a 3.5 year period of time, which relates back to Dan 7, where the rule of Antichrist is identified as a 3.5 year period of time. This period ends with the 2nd woe, which seems to be a severe earthquake in Jerusalem at the end of this period.

    But I'm saying that *after* the 2nd woe, which is at the end of the 1260 days, a period takes place that is undetermined. It is "coming soon," without any specification as to *how long.*

    The world will thus not know the exact day, and will not even acknowledge that it is soon, for the simple reason that they don't believe the Antichrist is "the Antichrist," and being on the side of the Antichrist will view Christians as insubordinate and seditious. We will be viewed as "bigots" and "narrow." (Of course, if you are Pretrib, you will be gone.)

    So the reason the world is not ready is simply because they do not accept God's standard of righteousness, and never prepare for the Kingdom of God. Christians in all ages prepare for the Kingdom by adopting Christ's righteousness. It doesn't matter *when* the Kingdom comes, because they are *always* ready!

    So in the end times, during the time of Antichrist's rule, the world will still not recognize the sign of Antichrist, nor even acknowledge signs of God's disfavor and judgment. Instead they will go on in their sins, and condemn Christians as being "unsocial."

    Christians, on the other hand, will recognize the signs, but still will not know the *exact day* of Christ's coming. We may not know specifically what day the 1260 days begin, but even on the 1260th day, we will not know how long *after the 2nd woe* that it will be before Christ comes back to destroy Antichrist.

  9. #24

    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation about the Two-witnesses, it's not a real time event per se as per being a part of the Chronological Order of the Book of Revelation.
    Haven't read thru entire thread, but agree with this statement ^ .

    IOW, there are not 1260 days (of 2W testimony) BETWEEN the 6th and 7th Trumpets (let's see if this posts... I couldn't earlier today, but seem to be blocked).

  10. #25

    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    *BETWEEN 5th and 6th Trumpets...*

  11. #26

    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Only get the "WARNING" message SOMETIMES. Hmm...

  12. #27

    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    … cannot EDIT, nor make any other movement (without such messages popping up). ugh.

  13. #28
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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    We've all had problems w/ the site, DW. Old Man said they're working on it. What I don't like is the loss of all emails going back a couple months!

  14. #29

    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Yes, I realize the entire site is experiencing problems. I'm just saying sometimes I'm blocked/prevented from POSTING, PM'ing, or EDITING (at all), and wanted to let some here know this (somehow)

  15. #30

    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    … glad I save all my postings elsewhere. lol

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