Yea, I'm back at square one. But it's okay. Sometimes I need to start fresh....Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark
I live here!
Yea, I'm back at square one. But it's okay. Sometimes I need to start fresh....
Road less travelled
Let me simplify my point. The 1290 days of Daniel 12 seems to point to 1290 days until the resurrection. The 1260 day (42 months) rule of the beast has the SAME ENDPOINT, being the second coming and resurrection. Thus the start of the abomination occurs 30 days before the start of the beast's reign giving us a 30 day warning before the antichrist comes.
This future ability to predict exact timing does not contradict the fact that no-one knows except the Father. Only the Father knows when the 1290 day period will start because we are currently in an indefinite period. You say you don't have good answers to some of this, you don't need an answer, the 1290 day and 1260 day periods are clear. Same endpoint, the resurrection, different starting points.
I didn't say the 1260 days starts at the AoD.
However the AoD is placed there by the Beast / False Prophet and we are given timing by 2 Thess 2:4 which is when the AC sits in the Temple.
This isn't possible WHILE the 2W are witnessing. Nor is it possible for anyone else to do this.
Once they are dead though THEN it can happen.
Close, but not correct.Now that that is out of the way I can address the timing. The Jews are said to be Conquered and when this happens Jesus/man in linen tells us there will be 1260 days (time, times and half) until all these things end. This mean that the Beast Conquers Jerusalem/Jews at the Midway point of the 70th Week, and from the time he Conquers to become the Beast, there is 1260 days left until the Second Coming.
The Jews are in the wilderness for 1260 days but before that they have to flee, plus we have the time of the bodies lying dead.
I take what is stated and BOTH the 1290 days AND the 1335 days STARTS from the AoD and the removal of the daily sacrifice.Now is where it gets tricky......Why do you assume these other two numbers are associated with the starting of the 1260 ? Daniel asks a very pertinent question that people overlook I think.............................Jesus has already told Daniel that after the Joly People are Conquered there will be 1260 days until these WONDERS CEASE (Second Coming) Daniel asks this: Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
The same question is asked as the one in verse 6, when shall these end or WHAT SHALL BE THE END OF THESE THINGS !! The Jesus tells about two more things he is not repeating the 1260 event which is the Conquering of the Holy People, he tells us about an AoD event and an Event that is a BLESSING.
The Daily [sacrifice] and the Abomination of Desolation are just like the 1260 Event, a set number of days until the Second Coming. I take it the Daily and AoD happen at the exact same time. When this happens there is 1290 days until the Second Coming and thus 30 days until the Beast Conquers Jerusalem/Israel.
Likewise the 1335 BLESSING is, IMHO, the Two-Witness, they show up 1335 days before the Second Coming. The clues are further enhanced because Elijah must show up before the DOTL and they also die before the Beast dies. Thus they show up 75 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem, and 45 days before the AoD, this makes sense, how would Israel know to FLEE Judea if the had not read Matthew 24 ? The Jews (2/3 do) repent, then they flee, then the Beast Conquers Jerusalem.
Now the point that this has been fulfilled in history can be ignored for the moment, as we can note that the 1335 days MUST happen 45 days AFTER the 1290 days.
As the START date is the SAME then the 1335 days MUST point to the date of Jesus' return IF it is a FUTURE event.
However what then does the 1290 days point to?
Grand Master
It's much simpler to just assume if the Two-witnesses die before the Beast and they both have "1260 day offices" a per their appointed times, that they also must show up before the Beast comes to power. The Prophecy of the Beast is for a time, times and half is 1260 days. The Two-witnesses are given the exact same time frame (1260), but not the exact same timing, soas we can juxtapose the two time periods against each other. In other words, if they die 75 days before the Beast then they must show up 75 days before the Beast. So lets reverse engineer this, if they show up and 75 days before the Beast shows up then we know they must die 75 days before he dies.
You see, I think know what you are thinking as per the Second Woe, you see that Jesus takes over and there is a TIME PERIOD in between, but that is not what happens, the 7th Trump is blown and THEN Jesus takes over !! (REREAD IT) The 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe so Jesus takes over after the 3rd Woe and the 3rd Woe is all 7 Vials. Just like we are not given the DETAILS of the 2nd Woe in Rev. 11 (but are given the details in Rev. 9) we are also not given the DETAILS of the 3rd Woe in Rev. 11 (but we are given the details in Rev. 16). You see, the Two-witnesses MINISTRY is what Chapter 11 is all about, and we are to understand they pray forth all the Plagues and Woes, but God delivers the Plagues and Woes. So they die after the 2nd Woe but why ? Because their job is done, they offer a prayer for the last Woe and then they are needed no more, God delivers the Woe !! We are just given the RESULT, Jesus takes over Amen !! Thus we see the 3rd Woes RESULTS as Jesus taking over, but it happens in Rev. 16 at the 7th Vial which ends the 3rd Woe which is all 7 Vials.
So I am not 100 percent positive but it seems you think Jesus takes over in Rev. 11 and there is a Pause, but Rev. 11 ends at Rev. 16:19.
The only Gentile Christians will be those who repent after the Rapture as per my beliefs of course.
I am having to proof read before I post, as there seems to be no more EDITING !! LOL
Time, times and half a time is NOT 1260 days.
1260 days is an EXACT and SPECIFIC period of time.
Time, times and half a time is an INEXACT length of time and is shown as such.
I live here!
Yea, I know about the editing--you will now see how bad my writing really is. I proof read *and* edit!
Yes, I think you somewhat understand my view, right or wrong. I do see the 1260 days of the 2 Witnesses as the same as the 1260 days of the Reign of Antichrist. They both refer back to Dan 7, and the 3.5 years of Antichrist's Reign, in my opinion.
I don't really see any problem with having the Antichrist's Reign run simultaneously with the witnessing of the 2 Prophets? So, if the end of the Antichrist's reign is simultaneous with the end of the witness of the 2 Prophets, then we see that at the end of this period the "2nd Woe" take place, which seems to be a great earthquake in Jerusalem. It appears that many Jews repent at that time! Furthermore, it is 3.5 days *past the 1260 days* before the 2 Witnesses rise from the dead and are caught up into heaven.
And it is after this 2nd Woe takes place, at the end of the 1260 days, that a period of transition begins--a time that is undetermined in terms of length of time. It is just "coming quickly." In this way nobody can know the exact date of Christ's return. I theorize that since Antichrist is defeated at the day of Christ's return, he must be doing something in between the end of his 1260 day reign and the day Christ comes back? My theory is that after the 1260 days a change takes place in the reign of Antichrist, and the period of time begins in which the Battle of Armageddon develops and takes place.
Road less travelled
Good post, but I may disagree with you regarding timing. It seems we agree that the third woe/7th trumpet is the second coming but the witnesses coming alive ALSO seems to match with the second coming. (resurrection/earthquake). So I would place the resurrection of the two witnesses AT THE second coming, end of the 2nd woe, start of the third woe, which is the end of the beast's reign.
ABOMINATION--26.5days--WITNESSES START--3.5 days--BEAST STARTS--1256.5 days--witnesses die--3.5 days--SECOND COMING
(at the second coming the witnesses are resurrected, the church is resurrected, the beast is destroyed, there is the great earthquake)
Last edited by DurbanDude; Jan 16th 2019 at 06:49 AM.
Road less travelled
Do you see any match between the time, times and half a time of Daniel 7, and the 42 months of Rev 13?
Daniel 7:25 The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.
Rev 13:5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them.
Do you see any match between these two periods of Rev 12?
6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time
If not, what is your view on those periods?
No I don't see them being the SAME times of Dan 7 and Rev 13.
Rev 13 is SPECIFIED as 42 months.
Rev 12:6 is SPECIFIED as 1260 days.
Rev 12:14 has the OPPOSITE situation for the woman is in the wilderness and NOT being worn out by the beast, but being nourished by God, being taken care of, whilst Dan 7:25 speaks of being delivered into his hands.
You could argue that the saints in Dan 7:25 isn't the woman, but the Church, and that while the woman is protected is the time the Church is persecuted.
That would then bring the two ideas into harmony, though make Daniel be prophesying not about the Jews, but the church.
The simple meaning of time means a length of time of indeterminate duration. Times is then another length of time of indeterminate duration and then half a time would speak of a time which is shortened. It is worthy of a thread of its own, as the usually claim of substituting year for time is a nonsense for me as then God could easily have said a year etc ESPECIALLY as He was very specific about the other durations of time.
Out of the Box
The woman represents Jerusalem/Israel. So during the same 1260/42 months the woman is protected the saints (church) are persecuted. Harmony.
After this time then we see events in Rev 17 the beast aligned with the woman and Israel (the 12 total horns 2 horns are upon the beast himself) 1260-1335. Once again Harmony.
Road less travelled
Maybe you missed my point, I wasn't comparing Rev 12 to Daniel 7.
I am comparing Rev 12:6 to Rev 12:14
The language surrounding the timeframes is so similar in two separate verses, it could be argued that the timeframe of "time, times and half a time" is actually 1260 days:
6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time
It could be argued, and I personally used to see it that way as it is a very simple way to take it.
However it then begs the question WHY speak of time and not state an equivalent such as 42 months etc ESPECIALLY as 1260 days is an EXACT length of time.
Dan 12:7* And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.
Notice the time given here also.
Now for me this is NOT the same period as:
Dan 12:11* And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.*
Dan 12:12* Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.
Yet these are within the same prophecy of Dan 12.
It is one of the questions I have no revelation on.
Road less travelled
Okay , I see Rev 12:6 and Rev 12:14 as a reasonably strong argument that "time, times and half a time" is in fact "1260 days". A Jewish month is seen colloquially as 30 days long, and precisely as per the moon cycle of 29.5 days long. Colloquially the 42 month period could also be seen as the same 1260 days.
1290 days is obviously 30 days longer, same endpoint (resurrection) but an earlier starting point than the beast's reign. Thus the abomination gives us a 30 day warning of the beast.
I think you are missing the point.
First 1260 days is EXACT, but time, times and half a time is NOT EXACT. Further A Jewish month is sometimes 29 days and sometimes 30 days but spread over 12 months it is only between 353 and 355 days long, hence the need for an intercalary month.
This means 1260 days is NOT 42 months, nor is it 3 and a half years.
Secondly why is Rev 12:6 and Rev 12:14 given IF it is simply a repeat - seems quite redundant. It isn;t done elsewhere in Revelation, nor really anywhere else in prophecy.
Additionally Dan 12:7 is NOT speaking of the same period of time as Rev 12:6 and to have 1260 days just become 1290 and 1335 days means the precision is being lost.
The purpose of the period is NOT to show a precise number of days but rather a period of time, just as the word itself means.
Road less travelled
What is your understanding of Rev 12:6 and Rev 12:14, if you think it is not a repeat? I cannot say why there is a repeat there, but certainly looks like it. Maybe the repeat is there so that we can know that 1260 days equals time, times, and half a time. What is your interpretation of the two verses?
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