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Thread: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same time

  1. #46
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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    What is your understanding of Rev 12:6 and Rev 12:14, if you think it is not a repeat? I cannot say why there is a repeat there, but certainly looks like it. Maybe the repeat is there so that we can know that 1260 days equals time, times, and half a time. What is your interpretation of the two verses?
    This is what I am working out at the moment.
    Rev 12:1-6 is stated as a SIGN and is NOT literal EXCEPT the 1260 days (it seems)

    Rev 12:7-17 seems to be literal and is tied into the GT so found in an historical moment in time, yet verse 14 is the part that doesn't fit into that time frame as it speaks of this unquantifiable length of time.

    Also note that verse 4 has Satan cast down at the time the Man Child is to be born (along with his angels) yet verse 10 has it shortly before Jesus returns.
    So which is correct - are they at odds.
    The whole passage is odd and needs further reflection.

    I note it has also diverged from the previous point ...

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Good post, but I may disagree with you regarding timing. It seems we agree that the third woe/7th trumpet is the second coming but the witnesses coming alive ALSO seems to match with the second coming. (resurrection/earthquake). So I would place the resurrection of the two witnesses AT THE second coming, end of the 2nd woe, start of the third woe, which is the end of the beast's reign.

    ABOMINATION--26.5days--WITNESSES START--3.5 days--BEAST STARTS--1256.5 days--witnesses die--3.5 days--SECOND COMING

    (at the second coming the witnesses are resurrected, the church is resurrected, the beast is destroyed, there is the great earthquake)
    I know why you think like this, and until we grasp what Rev. 11 actually is it can be confusing. The 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe but the 3rd Woe is ALL SEVEN VIALS also, and we must remember when Jesus returns, at the 7th Vial. So at the end of the 3rd Woe is the Second Coming. That is why we must put Rev. 11 into its proper perspective as per to what it is.

    Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation, it's all about the Two-witnesses ministry, it's not a part of the Chronological Order of the BoR. That is why when we see the 2nd Woe we are not given any details, we are given the details in Rev. 9, so in essence the Two-witnesses die at the end of Rev. 9, in truth. Likewise the 3rd Woe starts at the 7th Trumpet, just after they die, but in Rev. 11 we are only given the RESULTS of the 7th Trumpet, Jesus CONQUERS and REIGNS, we are not given the minute details, those are given step by step in Rev. ch. 16 until the 7th Vial brings this to pass in full by Jesus Conquering Babylon (the World) in Rev. 16:19.

    If what you were saying is true then the 7 Vials would have to come to pass in 3.5 days, you see that problem now ? The NATIONS OF THE WHOLE WORLD have to be gathered unto Armageddon brother, that will take weeks in and of itself. I see the timeframe between the 2nd Woe ending and the 3rd Woe ending as 75 days. I thus also see thecoming of the Two-witnesses as showing up 75 days before the Beast (DOTL) at the 1335, which is 75 days before the DOTL stats at the 1260.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I know why you think like this, and until we grasp what Rev. 11 actually is it can be confusing. The 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe but the 3rd Woe is ALL SEVEN VIALS also, and we must remember when Jesus returns, at the 7th Vial. So at the end of the 3rd Woe is the Second Coming. That is why we must put Rev. 11 into its proper perspective as per to what it is.

    Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation, it's all about the Two-witnesses ministry, it's not a part of the Chronological Order of the BoR. That is why when we see the 2nd Woe we are not given any details, we are given the details in Rev. 9, so in essence the Two-witnesses die at the end of Rev. 9, in truth. Likewise the 3rd Woe starts at the 7th Trumpet, just after they die, but in Rev. 11 we are only given the RESULTS of the 7th Trumpet, Jesus CONQUERS and REIGNS, we are not given the minute details, those are given step by step in Rev. ch. 16 until the 7th Vial brings this to pass in full by Jesus Conquering Babylon (the World) in Rev. 16:19.

    If what you were saying is true then the 7 Vials would have to come to pass in 3.5 days, you see that problem now ? The NATIONS OF THE WHOLE WORLD have to be gathered unto Armageddon brother, that will take weeks in and of itself. I see the timeframe between the 2nd Woe ending and the 3rd Woe ending as 75 days. I thus also see thecoming of the Two-witnesses as showing up 75 days before the Beast (DOTL) at the 1335, which is 75 days before the DOTL stats at the 1260.
    Why do you feel it is necessary to compress the 7 vials into the third woe/7th trumpet? I see the possibility of a much larger overlap between the trumpets and vials. I agree with most of your other points.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Why do you feel it is necessary to compress the 7 vials into the third woe/7th trumpet? I see the possibility of a much larger overlap between the trumpets and vials. I agree with most of your other points.
    I actually see the 7 vials ALL occur AFTER the 7th trumpet. They are part of the 3rd woe, though the KEY aspect of the 3rd woe is Satan being cast to earth as Rev 12 declares.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I actually see the 7 vials ALL occur AFTER the 7th trumpet. They are part of the 3rd woe, though the KEY aspect of the 3rd woe is Satan being cast to earth as Rev 12 declares.
    You are stating it as such, but I don't see your biblical evidence for placing the vials there. In fact in Rev 9 at the last trumpet before second coming, the army of 200 million is mentioned associated with the "great river Euphrates. Yet also in Rev 16, the last bowl before the second coming, the gathering of armies is associated with the "great river Euphrates".

    Rev 16:12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East.

    Rev 9: Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15 And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand.


    We cannot be 100% sure, but my logic says there wont be two major wars coming from the Euphrates during the Great Tribulation. The bowls are compressed towards the end of the trumpets, but I don't believe they are as compressed as you claim. Are those who follow the beast going to have a 5 month scorpion sting (5th trumpet) AND painful sores ?(1st bowl). A scorpion sting can be a painful festering sore as described by the 1st bowl. It's possible these stings turn into festering sores over the 5 month period. Thus the 7 bowls could easily be compressed into the LAST THREE TRUMPETS. Do you have evidence for your view?

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    You are stating it as such, but I don't see your biblical evidence for placing the vials there. In fact in Rev 9 at the last trumpet before second coming, the army of 200 million is mentioned associated with the "great river Euphrates. Yet also in Rev 16, the last bowl before the second coming, the gathering of armies is associated with the "great river Euphrates".

    Rev 16:12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East.

    Rev 9: Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15 And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand.


    We cannot be 100% sure, but my logic says there wont be two major wars coming from the Euphrates during the Great Tribulation. The bowls are compressed towards the end of the trumpets, but I don't believe they are as compressed as you claim. Are those who follow the beast going to have a 5 month scorpion sting (5th trumpet) AND painful sores ?(1st bowl). A scorpion sting can be a painful festering sore as described by the 1st bowl. It's possible these stings turn into festering sores over the 5 month period. Thus the 7 bowls could easily be compressed into the LAST THREE TRUMPETS. Do you have evidence for your view?
    The third woe would be the return of Christ himself.......ie comes quickly thus the 7 vials would be poured out at the end of the 2nd woe after the 1260 wherein the beast comes up from the beast and kills the 2W. So between the 1260 and the 1335.

    So I think we are in agreement.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I actually see the 7 vials ALL occur AFTER the 7th trumpet. They are part of the 3rd woe, though the KEY aspect of the 3rd woe is Satan being cast to earth as Rev 12 declares.
    But Christ returns at the 7th trumpet ie quickly

    So can Christ return and then the 7 vials are poured out? Or can the 7 trumpet sound and then the 7 vials are poured out while Christ waits to return until completed? I don't think so....however there would be a possibility that "and thy wrath is come" includes the 7 vials.

    14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
    18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
    Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
    Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
    Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
    And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
    He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

    Thus if not the 7th trumpet then they would be poured out at end of 2nd woe (6th trumpet). note though that after the 7th trumpet sounds there is not a long period of time remaining either way.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Why do you feel it is necessary to compress the 7 vials into the third woe/7th trumpet? I see the possibility of a much larger overlap between the trumpets and vials. I agree with most of your other points.
    Good question, if I give the details whilst explaining the above it gets to drawn out and confusing so I can tell if someone kinda gets it when they ask this question. The Trumpets are Judgments on 1/3's (Thirds) in every instance except the grasses which is all the grasses, then we get the last Three Trumpets in Rev. 8 in which we are told these are the Three Woes !!

    Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. 13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    So the last three Trumpets are the Three Woes !! The 5th Trumpet is Apollyon and his Demon hordes being released from the pit. The 6th Trumpet is an Angelic Army bringing plagues that kill 1.5 billion IMHO, and not a human Chinese army on horses. Then the 7th Trumpet sounds and the Vials come forth, just like when the 7th Seal is opened all Seven Trumpets are readied. We are told at the 7th Trumpet in Rev. 11 Jesus takes over, well that only happen after the 7th Vial. The 7 Vials are the 3rd Woe just like the 7th Seal brings forth all Seven Trumpets.

    The reason I get 75 days is because the Two-witnesses Ministry = 1260 days and the Beast rules for 1260 days. The Beast starts ruling in the Middle of the Week or at the 1260, or what Daniel is told is 1260 days until the Wonders end (Second Coming). So he rules for 1260 days, but dies at the 7th Vial, so if the Two-witnesses die at he 2nd Woe that means their 1260 day ministry ends at that time, thus they have to have started their Ministry BEFORE the Beast starts his rule at the 1260 (which is the Day of the Lord). This is why I see the BLESSING or the 1335 as the Two-witnesses showing up 1335 days before the Second Coming. They turn 1/3 of the Jews back to God/Jesus thus when the 1290 Abomination is placed by the False Prophet they know to Flee Judea. (It's kind of hard to follow as per the 1260, 1290 and 1335, but it fits like a glove and that is how I understand the Holy Spirit's workings, when you see something and it fits let's say 10 things that must happen, that gets me excited, I understand only God's plan always fits every scripture because God is perfect in all of His ways, Amen. )

    I actually see the 7 vials ALL occur AFTER the 7th trumpet. They are part of the 3rd woe, though the KEY aspect of the 3rd woe is Satan being cast to earth as Rev 12 declares.
    The 7 Vials are at the END............Satan is cast out closer to the Middle of the week. Revelation id not in Chronological Order. Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 all start when the First Seal is opened (Rev. ch. 6) and Rev. 11 starts 75 days before the First Seal is opened.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Good question, if I give the details whilst explaining the above it gets to drawn out and confusing so I can tell if someone kinda gets it when they ask this question. The Trumpets are Judgments on 1/3's (Thirds) in every instance except the grasses which is all the grasses, then we get the last Three Trumpets in Rev. 8 in which we are told these are the Three Woes !!

    Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. 13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    So the last three Trumpets are the Three Woes !! The 5th Trumpet is Apollyon and his Demon hordes being released from the pit. The 6th Trumpet is an Angelic Army bringing plagues that kill 1.5 billion IMHO, and not a human Chinese army on horses.
    We may disagree on whether it is a human army or not, but up until here I agree. Yes the 3 woes are clearly associated with the last 3 trumpets.

    Then the 7th Trumpet sounds and the Vials come forth, just like when the 7th Seal is opened all Seven Trumpets are readied. We are told at the 7th Trumpet in Rev. 11 Jesus takes over, well that only happen after the 7th Vial. The 7 Vials are the 3rd Woe just like the 7th Seal brings forth all Seven Trumpets.
    Revelation is full of separate visions starting with the words "AND THEN I SAW". People get confused with the chapter break of 7th seal which really belongs in Rev 6 with the vision of the seals. The vision about the trumpets is a new vision completely unassociated with the 7 seals. Thus you are making a rule that the last one of the previous 7 ushers in the next 7 when no such rule exists. The 3 visions are unconnected except being a list of 7 consecutive events. I understand your point, but do not agree, I believe the 6th trumpet matches the 6th bowl, armies are coming from the Euphrates River just before the second coming.



    The reason I get 75 days is because the Two-witnesses Ministry = 1260 days and the Beast rules for 1260 days. The Beast starts ruling in the Middle of the Week or at the 1260, or what Daniel is told is 1260 days until the Wonders end (Second Coming). So he rules for 1260 days, but dies at the 7th Vial, so if the Two-witnesses die at he 2nd Woe that means their 1260 day ministry ends at that time, thus they have to have started their Ministry BEFORE the Beast starts his rule at the 1260 (which is the Day of the Lord). This is why I see the BLESSING or the 1335 as the Two-witnesses showing up 1335 days before the Second Coming. They turn 1/3 of the Jews back to God/Jesus thus when the 1290 Abomination is placed by the False Prophet they know to Flee Judea. (It's kind of hard to follow as per the 1260, 1290 and 1335, but it fits like a glove and that is how I understand the Holy Spirit's workings, when you see something and it fits let's say 10 things that must happen, that gets me excited, I understand only God's plan always fits every scripture because God is perfect in all of His ways, Amen. )
    Yes you need time for your seven bowls to occur , and so need the two witnesses to be resurrected a while earlier than the second coming.
    I see the two witnesses resurrection (the end of the second woe) being IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED by the second coming:


    And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on. 13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe has passed; the third woe cometh quickly, speedily (without delay). The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
    “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,


    Greek: tachy: meaning quickly, speedily (without delay)

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    We may disagree on whether it is a human army or not, but up until here I agree. Yes the 3 woes are clearly associated with the last 3 trumpets.
    The 1st Woe is a Demonic horde. The Second Woe can have nothing to do with the Kings of the East, this throws a lot of people off track for no reason, it is and can only be an Angel Army. For starters there will never be 200 Million Horses on earth, and even if one sees that as a Metaphor, there will no be an Army of 200 Million. The mistake is not diagnosing the details here, I used to say the same thing brother until I decided I had to drop all Men's Traditions and look at things afresh. The #1 reason I come to this conclusion is the word PLAGUES !! The 1st Woe maimed and harmed via the Demons, the 2nd Woe KILLED via PLAGUES !! Plagues are of God !!

    Rev. 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

    These are PLAGUES of God not men brother. Notice who is loosed, FOUR ANGELS who are Bound to an appointed time (meaning they are not bound in the river, but to an APPOINTED TIME at an APPOINTED REGION/PLACE. God would not bind Angels up in a river, and they are not Demons, these are Angels bound to an appointed time from my studies this is factual.) That is what the NEXT VERSE MEANS !!

    Rev. 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

    The 200 Million have on the EXACT COLOR of Breastplates as the Jewish High Priests wore !! It is an Angelic Army brother briging Plagues upon Mankind or JUDGMENT !! Thus they wear the Judgment Breastplates of the High Priests !! Who is now Jesus Christ !!

    In Revelation 9 a horde of Demons is loosed from the bottomless pit when the Fifth Angel sounds the Fifth trumpet, and is given the key to the bottomless pit. (Rev 9:1) Their "Breastplates were of Iron" but the Army of the 200 Million (two hundred thousand thousand, has Breastplates of what ? {breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, } The Breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue and sulfur yellow of the 200 Million Horsemen equate to the breastplate worn by the High Priest of Israel. Exodus 28:15 You shall make the breastplate of judgment. Artistically woven according to the workmanship of the ephod you shall make it: of gold, blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and fine wove, linen, you shall make it.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with the Kings of the East who come from the Euphrates River Region. But because people have grown accustomed to thinking that way many try to conflate or converge the two passages as one, and others try to insist this has to be China. But that is just not the case, here is what we get with the 6th Vial. We get ALL THE BEASTS and the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD.........The Kings of the East represent Babylon and Persia !! The Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings which are not mentioned nor do they need to be mentioned, (he is THE BEAST) represent the other Two Beasts, Greece and Rome AND the Little Horn. Then we are told the Kings from the rest of the whole world also gather to battle against God at Armageddon. And when God defeats them He calls them BABYLON !! Thus Babylon = the Whole World.

    Revelation is full of separate visions starting with the words "AND THEN I SAW". People get confused with the chapter break of 7th seal which really belongs in Rev 6 with the vision of the seals. The vision about the trumpets is a new vision completely unassociated with the 7 seals. Thus you are making a rule that the last one of the previous 7 ushers in the next 7 when no such rule exists. The 3 visions are unconnected except being a list of 7 consecutive events. I understand your point, but do not agree, I believe the 6th trumpet matches the 6th bowl, armies are coming from the Euphrates River just before the second coming.
    Step back and think here now, does the 7th Seal actually begin in Rev. ch. 6 ? Or does it fit perfectly where it is ? I think there is a reason the 7th Seal is in chapter 8, after the 144,000 and the Multitude are seen, even though there are no Chapters, this is in its proper order. You see if the 7th Seal is all 7 Trumpets combined as I say it is, and the 144,000 is just a Metaphoric number meaning ALL ISRAEL or the 1/3 of the Jews who REPENTED and thus Fled Judea for Petra, then chapter 7 makes perfect sense !!

    Image my understanding for a moment, that the 144,000 is only the Jews Fleeing Judea and see if Rev. ch. 7 fits.

    Rev. 7:1 And after these things (Meaning AFTER the 6th Seal and BEFORE the 7th Seal) I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, (The TRUMPET JUDGMENTS HURT WHAT ? The Seas, Trees and the EARTH !! Of Course )

    3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads (Until they are SAFE in Petra).

    So there is a reason the 7th Seal is opened AFTER the 144,000 are shown in Rev. ch. 7 and not in Rev. ch. 6, the 7th Seal is ALL 7 Trumpets, thus when God says to HOLD BACK THE WINDS of the earth that will hurt the Trees, Seas and the Earth until the 144,000 (Jews who are fleeing Judea for Petra) are SEALED that means hold back on the Trumpet Judgments until the Jews make it to Petra !! The WOMAN Flees the Dragon where God PROTECTS her for 1260 days in the Wilderness !! Rev. 18 Come out of her my people that ye receive not of her PLAGUES (Trumpet Judgments). Then God gives us a rundown on who all is SEALED, its 12,000 x 12 and we know the number 12 = FULLNESS so this means ALL ISRAEL, not every Jew, but Israel as a Nation is saved, her seed is preserved just as God promised Abraham.

    Then in chapter 8 the 7th Seal is OPENED because the 7th Seal = ALL 7 TRUMPET JUDGMENTS !! All of God's Wrath comes from the Seven Seals.

    Yes you need time for your seven bowls to occur , and so need the two witnesses to be resurrected a while earlier than the second coming.
    I see the two witnesses resurrection (the end of the second woe) being IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED by the second coming:


    And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on. 13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe has passed; the third woe cometh quickly, speedily (without delay). The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
    “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,

    Greek: tachy: meaning quickly, speedily (without delay)
    It can come QUICKLY/SPEEDILY, but that doesn't mean the Vials come in a few days, it just means after the 2nd Woe the 3td Woe is followed quickly. The Seals, Trumpets and Vials are all Separate Judgments.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    You are stating it as such, but I don't see your biblical evidence for placing the vials there. In fact in Rev 9 at the last trumpet before second coming, the army of 200 million is mentioned associated with the "great river Euphrates. Yet also in Rev 16, the last bowl before the second coming, the gathering of armies is associated with the "great river Euphrates".

    Rev 16:12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East.

    Rev 9: Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15 And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand.


    We cannot be 100% sure, but my logic says there wont be two major wars coming from the Euphrates during the Great Tribulation. The bowls are compressed towards the end of the trumpets, but I don't believe they are as compressed as you claim. Are those who follow the beast going to have a 5 month scorpion sting (5th trumpet) AND painful sores ?(1st bowl). A scorpion sting can be a painful festering sore as described by the 1st bowl. It's possible these stings turn into festering sores over the 5 month period. Thus the 7 bowls could easily be compressed into the LAST THREE TRUMPETS. Do you have evidence for your view?
    Rev 9 is the 6th Trumpet and has 200 million mounted troops.

    Rev 16 does NOT have 200 million troops for it has ALL the armies of the beast.

    I see no reason not to see two battles/wars involving the Middle East, one for the START of the beast's reign and the other for the END of his reign. This after all is where the beast is based.

    The evidence is that the vials are NOT part of the trumpets. It CANNOT be BOTH 1/3 and at the same time 100% for various things.
    Further the Second coming is NOT AT the 7th trumpet.
    That is known as a false friend.
    The 7th Trumpet is when Satan is kicked out of heaven.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Rev 9 is the 6th Trumpet and has 200 million mounted troops.

    Rev 16 does NOT have 200 million troops for it has ALL the armies of the beast.

    why not start another thread on this topic......

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    why not start another thread on this topic......
    Brother, lok at the thread header....you have the Two-witnesses, the time of the Gentiles, the reign of the Beast (42 months), the Woman being protected from the Serpent ans them as about the TIMELINE.....Come on !! That covers everything from the midway point on and even the Two-witnesses who show up before the DOTL.

    FHS was speaking about when the Beasts reign started and ended.

    I mean that broad of a topic is going to include a lot of subject matter. I think we are all broaching the topic of the TIMELINE.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Rev 9 is the 6th Trumpet and has 200 million mounted troops.

    Rev 16 does NOT have 200 million troops for it has ALL the armies of the beast.

    I see no reason not to see two battles/wars involving the Middle East, one for the START of the beast's reign and the other for the END of his reign. This after all is where the beast is based.

    The evidence is that the vials are NOT part of the trumpets. It CANNOT be BOTH 1/3 and at the same time 100% for various things.
    Further the Second coming is NOT AT the 7th trumpet.
    That is known as a false friend.
    The 7th Trumpet is when Satan is kicked out of heaven.
    Rev 16 mentions the kings of the east, AND the gathering of the kings of the whole world. Those from the Euphrates side are part of all the armies of the world.
    12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

    The 7th trumpet is when “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The 1st Woe is a Demonic horde. The Second Woe can have nothing to do with the Kings of the East, this throws a lot of people off track for no reason, it is and can only be an Angel Army. For starters there will never be 200 Million Horses on earth, and even if one sees that as a Metaphor, there will no be an Army of 200 Million. The mistake is not diagnosing the details here, I used to say the same thing brother until I decided I had to drop all Men's Traditions and look at things afresh. The #1 reason I come to this conclusion is the word PLAGUES !! The 1st Woe maimed and harmed via the Demons, the 2nd Woe KILLED via PLAGUES !! Plagues are of God !!

    Rev. 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

    These are PLAGUES of God not men brother. Notice who is loosed, FOUR ANGELS who are Bound to an appointed time (meaning they are not bound in the river, but to an APPOINTED TIME at an APPOINTED REGION/PLACE. God would not bind Angels up in a river, and they are not Demons, these are Angels bound to an appointed time from my studies this is factual.) That is what the NEXT VERSE MEANS !!

    Rev. 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

    The 200 Million have on the EXACT COLOR of Breastplates as the Jewish High Priests wore !! It is an Angelic Army brother briging Plagues upon Mankind or JUDGMENT !! Thus they wear the Judgment Breastplates of the High Priests !! Who is now Jesus Christ !!

    In Revelation 9 a horde of Demons is loosed from the bottomless pit when the Fifth Angel sounds the Fifth trumpet, and is given the key to the bottomless pit. (Rev 9:1) Their "Breastplates were of Iron" but the Army of the 200 Million (two hundred thousand thousand, has Breastplates of what ? {breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, } The Breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue and sulfur yellow of the 200 Million Horsemen equate to the breastplate worn by the High Priest of Israel. Exodus 28:15 You shall make the breastplate of judgment. Artistically woven according to the workmanship of the ephod you shall make it: of gold, blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and fine wove, linen, you shall make it.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with the Kings of the East who come from the Euphrates River Region. But because people have grown accustomed to thinking that way many try to conflate or converge the two passages as one, and others try to insist this has to be China. But that is just not the case, here is what we get with the 6th Vial. We get ALL THE BEASTS and the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD.........The Kings of the East represent Babylon and Persia !! The Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings which are not mentioned nor do they need to be mentioned, (he is THE BEAST) represent the other Two Beasts, Greece and Rome AND the Little Horn. Then we are told the Kings from the rest of the whole world also gather to battle against God at Armageddon. And when God defeats them He calls them BABYLON !! Thus Babylon = the Whole World.



    Step back and think here now, does the 7th Seal actually begin in Rev. ch. 6 ? Or does it fit perfectly where it is ? I think there is a reason the 7th Seal is in chapter 8, after the 144,000 and the Multitude are seen, even though there are no Chapters, this is in its proper order. You see if the 7th Seal is all 7 Trumpets combined as I say it is, and the 144,000 is just a Metaphoric number meaning ALL ISRAEL or the 1/3 of the Jews who REPENTED and thus Fled Judea for Petra, then chapter 7 makes perfect sense !!

    Image my understanding for a moment, that the 144,000 is only the Jews Fleeing Judea and see if Rev. ch. 7 fits.

    Rev. 7:1 And after these things (Meaning AFTER the 6th Seal and BEFORE the 7th Seal) I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, (The TRUMPET JUDGMENTS HURT WHAT ? The Seas, Trees and the EARTH !! Of Course )

    3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads (Until they are SAFE in Petra).

    So there is a reason the 7th Seal is opened AFTER the 144,000 are shown in Rev. ch. 7 and not in Rev. ch. 6, the 7th Seal is ALL 7 Trumpets, thus when God says to HOLD BACK THE WINDS of the earth that will hurt the Trees, Seas and the Earth until the 144,000 (Jews who are fleeing Judea for Petra) are SEALED that means hold back on the Trumpet Judgments until the Jews make it to Petra !! The WOMAN Flees the Dragon where God PROTECTS her for 1260 days in the Wilderness !! Rev. 18 Come out of her my people that ye receive not of her PLAGUES (Trumpet Judgments). Then God gives us a rundown on who all is SEALED, its 12,000 x 12 and we know the number 12 = FULLNESS so this means ALL ISRAEL, not every Jew, but Israel as a Nation is saved, her seed is preserved just as God promised Abraham.

    Then in chapter 8 the 7th Seal is OPENED because the 7th Seal = ALL 7 TRUMPET JUDGMENTS !! All of God's Wrath comes from the Seven Seals.



    It can come QUICKLY/SPEEDILY, but that doesn't mean the Vials come in a few days, it just means after the 2nd Woe the 3td Woe is followed quickly. The Seals, Trumpets and Vials are all Separate Judgments.
    I should have said the 7th seal belongs in chapter 7, sorry that is what I actually meant. I obviously do not support just moving verses around here and there, but sometimes the later chapter breaks were put in illogical places. Chapter 8 should start with the trumpets, because it is clearly a new vision, many visions of Revelation start with the phrase "And I saw". Those who decided on the chapter breaks were not always logical.

    When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. Last sentence of the seals vision
    And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. First sentence of the trumpets vision

    It is an interesting association that you make between the high priests and the army of Rev 9. This is something to ponder on. But even so, is it that strange that an army of judgment is clothed with the breastplate of judgment?

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