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Thread: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same time

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    2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same time

    Rev 11
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    Rev 11
    3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    Rev 12
    14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    Rev13
    5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.


    And then would not these times also parallel the times in Danial 12? With all these thing above occurring at the same time within the 1260/1290 days below??

    Dan 12
    7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

    Dan 12
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    I agree. The 42 months, 1260 days, a time, times and half a time and/or half a Week, all speak of the same time. The 1290 days though is still open. I have not yet heard an explanation using scripture. Personal opinions are 20 to the dozen.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    If so then why are they described differently?

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    If so then why are they described differently?
    Without going into every mention of it, I dare say that Bible uses different things to describe the same thing because it is so constructed as to explain itself. When it uses 42 months in Revelation 11:2 and 13:5, it is also saying that this is a time of Judgement for in the rest of the Bible, almost every case of 42 is a case of Judgement. It just takes good old study to get to the bottom of the matter. You will probably find 1260 is a composite number showing something else like 144,000 does in New Jerusalem. "A time, times and half a time" will definitely connect the Tribulation to the second half of Daniel's 70th SEVEN. And so on ...

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Rev 11
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    Rev 11
    3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    Rev 12
    14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    Rev13
    5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.


    And then would not these times also parallel the times in Danial 12? With all these thing above occurring at the same time within the 1260/1290 days below??

    Dan 12
    7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

    Dan 12
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
    In what way are any of these the same?

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I agree. The 42 months, 1260 days, a time, times and half a time and/or half a Week, all speak of the same time. The 1290 days though is still open. I have not yet heard an explanation using scripture. Personal opinions are 20 to the dozen.
    The 1290 days from scripture tie into the 1335 days and are both tied into Dan 11:31
    The 42 months are NOT 1260 days. Close but not the same. So you could say that 1260 days occur during the 42 months. Except which 1260 days, as Rev 11 speaks of one lot and Rev 12 another.
    Time, times and half a time are not 42 months or 1260 days.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    In what way are any of these the same?
    If so then why are they described differently?

    [/QUOTE]
    Let's examine the placing of these time lengths. Will start with the time, times, and a half.

    Dan 12
    7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

    Ok, so notice that in Daniel is then made sense of the time, times, and a half. He is then told 1290 days and 1335 days. I take it as the same time frame with the time, times, and a half = 1260 whereby the holy people scattered 1290 then AOD and then 1335 day of the Lord.

    I agree. The 42 months, 1260 days, a time, times and half a time and/or half a Week, all speak of the same time. The 1290 days though is still open. I have not yet heard an explanation using scripture. Personal opinions are 20 to the dozen.
    Thus it appears it takes 30 days from the 1260 and 1290 to scatter the POWER of the holy people

    Now let's look at Rev 12 account of this time frame.

    Rev 12
    14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    What is important to note that Daniel states after the times, time, and a half there is ONLY 75 days left. Thus there cannot be another separate 42 months thereafter shown in Rev 13. Therefore Rev 13 is NOT chronological and the 42 months in Rev 13 is the same time frame as the time, times, and a half.


    Now let's look at the 42 months and 1260 days in Rev 11.

    Rev 11
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    This would be the same time frame as the 42 months in Rev 13. Also supported by the bolded above.

    Rev11
    3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    I think most would concluded the time of the gentiles and the two witnesses are at the same time. Include the time of the beast's 42 months as noted above.

    What is important to note is that after these 42 months/1260 days this ends with the second woe and the third woe (Christ) come quickly. Thus again Rev 11, 12, 13 are not chronological but speak of the same time.


    So when investigating these times they must all occur together.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Let's examine the placing of these time lengths. Will start with the time, times, and a half.

    Dan 12
    7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

    Ok, so notice that in Daniel is then made sense of the time, times, and a half. He is then told 1290 days and 1335 days. I take it as the same time frame with the time, times, and a half = 1260 whereby the holy people scattered 1290 then AOD and then 1335 day of the Lord.[/QUOTE]
    Why do you take it as the SAME time frame?
    Daniel is told THREE different lengths of time.
    One length of time is 1290 days, another is 1335 days and the other is a time, times and half a time.

    We could as easily connect the first "time" as speaking of the present time of the Persians.
    The "times" could then be connected with the Belly Kingdom, or the Great Horn kingdom of Alexander.
    The "half a time" could then be speaking about the first half of the four kingdoms being completed, and that of Seleucids.

    So the "time, times and half a time" is a long view of things, the other is from a certain event.

    We can see the same in Revelation.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Why do you take it as the SAME time frame?
    Daniel is told THREE different lengths of time.
    One length of time is 1290 days, another is 1335 days and the other is a time, times and half a time.

    We could as easily connect the first "time" as speaking of the present time of the Persians.
    The "times" could then be connected with the Belly Kingdom, or the Great Horn kingdom of Alexander.
    The "half a time" could then be speaking about the first half of the four kingdoms being completed, and that of Seleucids.
    I guess you could say it relates to anything you want......HOWEVER let's see what scriptures say.

    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    So above would be the 1290th day. Do you not see that there is still time remaining and it is not to hard to connect that the time until Christ returns would be the 1335th day!!!!

    Dan 12 (Matt 24:15)
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    Dan 12 (Matt 24:16-30)
    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


    Not too hard to connect these dots using scripture not trying squeeze historical events to match.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    The 'Abomination of Desolation' is plainly spoken by the prophet Daniel 9:27, to happen at the half way point of the last seven years before Jesus Returns.

    I agree that all the time periods given in Daniel and Revelation; the 1260, 1290, 1335 days, the 42 months and the 3 1/2 years all pertain to the second half of the 70th 'week'. The first half is not mentioned, as that will be a period of peace.
    The extra days of 1290 and 1335, both fit as final fulfillments of ancient events. 1 Corinthians 10:11

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The 1290 days from scripture tie into the 1335 days and are both tied into Dan 11:31
    The 42 months are NOT 1260 days. Close but not the same. So you could say that 1260 days occur during the 42 months. Except which 1260 days, as Rev 11 speaks of one lot and Rev 12 another.
    Time, times and half a time are not 42 months or 1260 days.
    Since you gave only an objection, and no correcting exposition, it is then your opinion. I amend my statement then to 21 to the dozen.

    Have you noticed that most posters here can only object, mostly without reasons given. In your posting #8 you proved nothing. You assumed a lot. Why not give a point for point logical build-up on what these various period are, what they mean, and when they take place. We'll study and parse your words according to the Lord's wish. "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge" (1st Corinthians 14:29).

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Since you gave only an objection, and no correcting exposition, it is then your opinion. I amend my statement then to 21 to the dozen.

    Have you noticed that most posters here can only object, mostly without reasons given. In your posting #8 you proved nothing. You assumed a lot. Why not give a point for point logical build-up on what these various period are, what they mean, and when they take place. We'll study and parse your words according to the Lord's wish. "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge" (1st Corinthians 14:29).
    Actually I did give a correcting exposition. Whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you.
    I do object and allow others to object IF valid reasons for the objection are made, even if they don't have a valid alternative.

    However I have highlighted a few FACTS which you seem unable to deal with.
    1) the 1290 and 1335 days are BOTH tied into the SAME event in Dan 12 and that is tied into Dan 11:31.
    2) 42 months are NOT 1260 days. They are depending on when you count etc around 1275 days assuming the Roman Calendar, but another length if Jewish.
    3) Time, times and half a time are NOT 42 months or 1260 days. If the angel wanted to say 1260 days as the period of time, then he would have said that length of time.
    In post #8 I gave a clear usage of the word "time", "times","half a time" with periods of time which would occur before these events.

    So your challenge is baseless for I did NOT only give an objection (which in itself is valid) but also gave an exposition.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I guess you could say it relates to anything you want......HOWEVER let's see what scriptures say.

    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    So above would be the 1290th day. Do you not see that there is still time remaining and it is not to hard to connect that the time until Christ returns would be the 1335th day!!!!

    Dan 12 (Matt 24:15)
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    Dan 12 (Matt 24:16-30)
    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

    Not too hard to connect these dots using scripture not trying squeeze historical events to match.
    I didn't squeeze any historical events. I simply highlighted ones that match.
    Further I took what was stated in Dan 12 which is connected with Dan 11:31 - the SAME AoD.

    Matt 24 is NOT about the AoD in Dan 11/12 but about the AoD in Dan 9:27 which is a different event.
    Further it is IMPOSSIBLE for the AoD to STARt on Day 1290 when the 1290 day is FROM the AoD.
    Yet most who hold your view would say that Jesus returns after 1260 days.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Matt 24 is NOT about the AoD in Dan 11/12 but about the AoD in Dan 9:27 which is a different event.
    Dan 9
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    The "he" is Christ, the covenant is Abrahamic, the "many" is Israel, and the one week is Tabernacles. The "he" must be consistent thru the verse thus does then the beast make it desolate do to his own abominations?

    Yes the abominations which make it desolate is the AOD in which GOD (the "he" in the verse) WILL MAKE IT DESOLATE. The AC does not make it desolate rather his abomination cause GOD to make it desolate. See the difference?

    Further it is IMPOSSIBLE for the AoD to STARt on Day 1290 when the 1290 day is FROM the AoD
    The biggest confusion you can't overcome is that the "one week" is 7 days not seven years thus you will never see it and continue to think 1260 is in the middle of years.

    So unless you are willing to attempt to understand this prophesy as days not years, it is all a mute point. I hope you and most will one day see it.

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    Re: 2W, time of Gentiles, reign of beast, woman protect from serpent occur at same ti

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Actually I did give a correcting exposition. Whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you.
    I do object and allow others to object IF valid reasons for the objection are made, even if they don't have a valid alternative.

    However I have highlighted a few FACTS which you seem unable to deal with.
    1) the 1290 and 1335 days are BOTH tied into the SAME event in Dan 12 and that is tied into Dan 11:31.
    2) 42 months are NOT 1260 days. They are depending on when you count etc around 1275 days assuming the Roman Calendar, but another length if Jewish.
    3) Time, times and half a time are NOT 42 months or 1260 days. If the angel wanted to say 1260 days as the period of time, then he would have said that length of time.
    In post #8 I gave a clear usage of the word "time", "times","half a time" with periods of time which would occur before these events.

    So your challenge is baseless for I did NOT only give an objection (which in itself is valid) but also gave an exposition.
    You objected to the thesis that the 1260 days, 42 months and a time, times and half a time were not the same event. You used an "assumption" that the Roman Calendar is used. But you did not give an exposition on what they were. However, I accept your statement;

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I do object and allow others to object IF valid reasons for the objection are made, even if they don't have a valid alternative.
    Consider this:
    1. Does not the Bible use the Hebrew Calendar with its full moon cycle - 28 days of moonlight and the 2 days of darkness when the moon is "new"? This equals 30 days, and 42 months of 30 days gives 1260 days.
    2. If 12 months make the year, the a "time" would be 12 months + "times" would be 24 months + "half a time" would be 6 months. 12+24+6 = 42 months.

    Then, is it not obvious that in Revelation 12:6-14, the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days, and this SAME WOMAN in verse 14, were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. SAME WOMAN - SAME EVENT - SAME TIME

    What shall we say?

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