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Thread: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

  1. #16
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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I take the GT to be meaning the 42 month reign of the beast, as shown in Rev 13. If the first 6 vials of wrath have been pouring out on them during this 42 months, I see it making no sense at all that any of them could be saying peace and safety. That doesn't compute if they have been bombarded with vials of wrath during that time. I instead think it makes far better sense that the GT runs it's course first, then the vials of wrath begin to be poured out after that. This seems to agree with the following.
    It does actually make sense. In order for people to say "peace and safety" it requires that there is NO peace and safety. They have to have that peace and safety removed. Once that is done THEN the AC will come and claim to bring peace and safety and he will mobilise his army to bring that peace into effect.
    So PEOPLE will look at what the Beast has done and marvel at him and believe he will bring peace and safety into being.
    They will say the Christians who challenged us are gone. Now we have peace and safety, but it is illusory for it is peace as the world gives and not as Jesus brings.

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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Except proof has no effect. When I was mocked and told that Gamma Ray Bursts in the Universe are science fiction, I provided many links to astrophysicist white papers, NASA and observatories from Hawaii to India that observe at least 1 GRB per day, and all I got in return was more anger and denial.
    I provided scripture that proved the Lord's Day of fiery wrath will come from the sun; Isaiah 30:26a
    Where is your proof of a GRB coming from a distant galaxy, being the source and being capable of fulfilling all the prophesies about that Day?

  3. #18
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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I provided scripture that proved the Lord's Day of fiery wrath will come from the sun; Isaiah 30:26a
    Where is your proof of a GRB coming from a distant galaxy, being the source and being capable of fulfilling all the prophesies about that Day?
    I never made that claim. I certainly didn’t claim a non local GRB would have a destructive effect. Apparently you failed to read my post correctly. I simply responded to another poster who accurately stated he would be more wary of a GRB than a Solar flare. So what I did was contrasted something with real destructive power (if close enough) to your somewhat ignorant characterization of a solar flare. Apparently you failed to do your research, so your posts continued with a lack of knowledge. Then you stated GRB’s are “science fiction,” so I posted a number of links from accredited astrophysicists, NASA and other legitimate sources that proved your erroneous characterization.

    To which your response was denial and accusation.

    About Isaiah;

    The figurative speech of magnifying light to expound on the blessings of God is often employed by Isaiah (compare Isaiah 2:5; Isaiah 9:2; Isaiah 10:17; Isaiah 13:10; Isaiah 58:8, Isaiah 58:10; Isaiah 60:1, Isaiah 60:3, Isaiah 60:19-20). This passage tells is that in those future days the light would shine intensely, and without obscurity; that their light would be greatly augmented, and that they would have much clearer vision of the divine character of Messiah. It is language such as Isaiah commonly employs to describe those times; and there is a fullness and splendor about it which can suit no other epoch.

    John takes it a step further - the Light of God and of the Lamb eliminates the need for the light of the sun altogether.

    “By moon, sun, light, are to be understood the abundance of spiritual and temporal felicity with which God should bless them in the days of the Messiah, which should be sevenfold, i.e. vastly exceed all that they had ever before possessed.”

    Isaiah 30:26 is a metaphor for the increase of joy of the healing of God’s people if you bothered to read the last 1/2 of the verse and kept it IN CONTEXT. You really need to study up on Hebrew metaphors Keraz, instead of taking them literally.

  4. #19
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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Re; the Great Tribulation: It will happen over the last 3 1/2 years of this age. The Seven Trumpets and Seven Bowls will occur as Written. They will only affect the Godless peoples.

    Re; a Coronal Mass Ejection being the means whereby all the graphic prophesies about the Day of the Lord's wrath come to pass, there is no other way for it all to happen as a seemingly natural event. How it must be, so as unbelievers in God can carry on in their unbelief and then will worship the Anti-Christ.

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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Re; a Coronal Mass Ejection being the means whereby all the graphic prophesies about the Day of the Lord's wrath come to pass, there is no other way for it all to happen as a seemingly natural event. How it must be, so as unbelievers in God can carry on in their unbelief and then will worship the Anti-Christ.
    Once again, science does not support a CME having such an effect on earth. And Isaiah 30 has nothing to do with your theory. In fact Isaiah is saying just the opposite of what you are preaching

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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Except proof has no effect.
    I meant it ironically. He's quick to condemn people to a fiery inferno but very sensitive where his own feelings are concerned.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    I meant it ironically. He's quick to condemn people to a fiery inferno but very sensitive where his own feelings are concerned.
    It must be lonely and tough to the the only one on the planet who can properly interpret Scripture; but then also jigger up a deadly cocktail of bad science and Biblical Metaphor into the mother of all flame throwers.

  8. #23
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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The Great Tribulation is the tribulation of the Jewish People following the 70 AD destruction of their capital city and their worship at the temple. They were forced to leave or were otherwise dispersed, away from their land, and suffered oppression in foreign countries. The Jewish Diaspora is therefore the Great Tribulation Jesus spoke of. And it ends at the end of the age, when Jesus returns, and when the "times of the Gentiles" come to an end. I believe the Church Fathers saw it this way as well, since they did not distinguish how Luke 21 portrayed it from the way Matthew 24 or Mark 13 portrayed it. The AoD was a Roman desolation of Jerusalem, leading to a long era--the worst in history--of Jewish exile.

  9. #24
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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    And I have said the following before....such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be....does not make sense if meaning the past 2000 years combined. And if meaning only 70 AD, the GT then can't span 2000 years and still agree with...such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. I'm almost 61 and live in the USA. I can't recall a single time in all of those years where the following would have been true at any time...such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    One can't have the GT and not also have...such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


    Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    It can't get any plainer than this....great tribulation equals such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Plus, obviously there can't be more than one unparalleled time of trouble.

    And besides, the GT has to do with persecution of the church, and not the destruction of the unbelieving Jews in 70 AD. And the following for one proves it.

    Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    None of these which came out of great tribulation are unbelieving Jews who were slaughtered in 70 AD. That's ludicrous, thus debunking that the GT has anything to do with the fate of unbelieving Jews in 70 AD.

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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The Great Tribulation is the tribulation of the Jewish People following the 70 AD destruction of their capital city and their worship at the temple. They were forced to leave or were otherwise dispersed, away from their land, and suffered oppression in foreign countries. The Jewish Diaspora is therefore the Great Tribulation Jesus spoke of. And it ends at the end of the age, when Jesus returns, and when the "times of the Gentiles" come to an end. I believe the Church Fathers saw it this way as well, since they did not distinguish how Luke 21 portrayed it from the way Matthew 24 or Mark 13 portrayed it. The AoD was a Roman desolation of Jerusalem, leading to a long era--the worst in history--of Jewish exile.
    A good evidence to that is when Jesus said “Pray it doesn’t come on a Sabbath.”

    We all know what that means. Christians don’t observe Sabbath so that would be a moot point.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    It must be lonely and tough to the the only one on the planet who can properly interpret Scripture; but then also jigger up a deadly cocktail of bad science and Biblical Metaphor into the mother of all flame throwers.
    I can stand it; the ancient prophets had it much worse; they were killed for the prophesies they made.
    Verbal abuse doesn't hurt me, but it does give those who abuse their fellow Christians a very low reputation. And Fenris: my feelings don't count for anything; it's the rejection of what the prophets actually Wrote, that concerns me.

    But the really sad thing in all of this, is the beliefs held by the opposers of the prophesies, namely the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church and the general Redemption of the Jewish people, are not to be found in the Bible.
    Amazing; they reject the truth and embrace lies!

  12. #27
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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    A good evidence to that is when Jesus said “Pray it doesn’t come on a Sabbath.”

    We all know what that means. Christians don’t observe Sabbath so that would be a moot point.
    This is poorly reasoned. The LOCATION is Jerusalem, therefore what occurs on the Sabbath effects things in Jerusalem.
    What this highlights is that it will NOT be a long period of months as some claim, or as happened in 66 - 70 AD, but a very short period of time. This is in distinction to Luke 21 where there is NO pray it isn't the Sabbath, when they did have time to settle their affairs and leave.

    Also Messianic Jews may well be affected by the Sabbath, just as Jesus and the Disciples were.
    Last edited by ForHisglory; Dec 6th 2018 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Additional point

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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    A good evidence to that is when Jesus said “Pray it doesn’t come on a Sabbath.”

    We all know what that means. Christians don’t observe Sabbath so that would be a moot point.
    Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
    24*For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    And unbelieving Jews couldn't care less about false Christs, and lying great signs and wonders. Ask Fenris if you don't believe me. But Christians might care about these things though. And where might great signs and lying wonders be taking place these days? In churches, and in revivals, and on tv via some of these religious channels, would be some of my guesses.


    So how do we interpret this then? I agree that you make a good point, yet I feel I make a good point as well.

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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    This is poorly reasoned. The LOCATION is Jerusalem, therefore what occurs on the Sabbath effects things in Jerusalem.
    What this highlights is that it will NOT be a long period of months as some claim, or as happened in 66 - 70 AD, but a very short period of time. This is in distinction to Luke 21 where there is NO pray it isn't the Sabbath, when they did have time to settle their affairs and leave.
    If this is fulfilled in our day and time, which I agree that it is, and that if it is supposed to involve the literal city of Jerusalem, that means there also has to be a temple there, except there is no temple there.

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    Re: What the Great Tribulation Really Will Be

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    and the general Redemption of the Jewish people, are not to be found in the Bible.
    Amazing; they reject the truth and embrace lies!
    You need to give your interpretation of Ezekiel 39 then. The house of Israel meant there, the text indicates God has been hiding His face from them. But once the judgment against Gog and his multitude is fulfilled, God is no longer hiding His face from the house of Israel meant in that chapter. Unless you can undeniably prove that the judgment against Gog and his multitude have already been fulfilled, this indicates God is still presently hiding His face from them. It is then a simple matter of asking yourself, who would God be hiding His face from? Believers? I wouldn't think so. So who does that leave left then? And oddly enough, the house of Israel presently occupying that region in the ME, they fit who God might be presently hiding His face from.

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