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Thread: states or kings?

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    states or kings?

    In Dan 7 and in the book of Revelation we read of endtime "kings." In our time we've noticed, since the Magna Carta, limitations placed upon kings, ultimately resulting in democratic revolutions and democratic states.

    However, the French Revolution led back to a kind of king--the dictator, who supposedly better served the masses. Instead of the king ruling alongside the nobility, he became more allied with the people as a political base. The Communist Revolution led to a single-party State, led by a kind of dictatorial party. Hitler became a kind of "king" with his Fascist overthrow of German government.

    Today, we see a new kind of elitist movement, seemingly heading back to a "king" once again in the form of socialism. Again, it is a new push for a strong central government which acts on behalf of the people, as opposed to more democratic forms of government. It is, once again, a push by the central government, including both the executive and the nobility, to act on behalf of the people, rather than being controlled by democratic principles.

    Here, in the U.S., we see a combination of the Democratic Party, the Left-Wing Media, and the Entertainment industry, as well as wealthy capitalists benefiting from this coalition, using propaganda to manipulate the people into giving them their rights and democratic control. I think this is already largely true in Europe.

    My question is: Do you think this return to stronger central government, in the US and Europe, is a return to "kings" in the sense of one party systems and dictators? Do you think this is what Bible Prophecy had in mind when it referred to "10 kings" ruling alongside Antichrist?

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    Re: states or kings?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Do you think this is what Bible Prophecy had in mind when it referred to "10 kings" ruling alongside Antichrist?[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
    No. The 10 kings refers to the 10 northern tribes of Israel. Biblically speaking.

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    Re: states or kings?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    No. The 10 kings refers to the 10 northern tribes of Israel. Biblically speaking.
    Whatever you believe about the "10 kings," you have to admit that free enterprise is suffering in the West! There is something about the rise of kings in ancient Israel that God didn't like. People tend to defer their moral judgment to leaders who give them cover to practice corrupt social mores.

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    Re: states or kings?

    This trend is very much visible in the rise of the monarchy of Saul. Samuel pleaded with the people not to go that way, but they refused to listen to him. He gave an amazing political statement in Samuel describing how ‘kingdoms’ inevitably abuse. But the alternative was not democracy; it was a system of 12 independent states loosely federated and lead by Judges. I think it would have been a good system if the people had followed the wisdom of their judges.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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    Re: states or kings?

    1 Samuel 8:11-20
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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    Re: states or kings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    This trend is very much visible in the rise of the monarchy of Saul. Samuel pleaded with the people not to go that way, but they refused to listen to him. He gave an amazing political statement in Samuel describing how ‘kingdoms’ inevitably abuse. But the alternative was not democracy; it was a system of 12 independent states loosely federated and lead by Judges. I think it would have been a good system if the people had followed the wisdom of their judges.
    Good point. I suggest, however, the democracy in the West today is more comparable to rule by judges than rule by kings. We are heading in the direction of rule by kings. Here in the U.S. even the judges are being deprived of their supposed neutrality, and are selected based on their "politics." We are heading ever more towards a one-party system.

    Fortunately, that hasn't happened yet. I've long said that a 2 party system is only one step away from a 1 party system!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    This trend is very much visible in the rise of the monarchy of Saul. Samuel pleaded with the people not to go that way, but they refused to listen to him. He gave an amazing political statement in Samuel describing how ‘kingdoms’ inevitably abuse. But the alternative was not democracy; it was a system of 12 independent states loosely federated and lead by Judges. I think it would have been a good system if the people had followed the wisdom of their judges.
    Good point. I suggest, however, the democracy in the West today is more comparable to rule by judges than rule by kings. We are heading in the direction of rule by kings. Here in the U.S. even the judges are being deprived of their supposed neutrality, and are selected based on their "politics." We are heading ever more towards a one-party system.

    Fortunately, that hasn't happened yet. I've long said that a 2 party system is only one step away from a 1 party system!

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    Re: states or kings?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    In Dan 7 and in the book of Revelation we read of endtime "kings." In our time we've noticed, since the Magna Carta, limitations placed upon kings, ultimately resulting in democratic revolutions and democratic states.

    However, the French Revolution led back to a kind of king--the dictator, who supposedly better served the masses. Instead of the king ruling alongside the nobility, he became more allied with the people as a political base. The Communist Revolution led to a single-party State, led by a kind of dictatorial party. Hitler became a kind of "king" with his Fascist overthrow of German government.

    Today, we see a new kind of elitist movement, seemingly heading back to a "king" once again in the form of socialism. Again, it is a new push for a strong central government which acts on behalf of the people, as opposed to more democratic forms of government. It is, once again, a push by the central government, including both the executive and the nobility, to act on behalf of the people, rather than being controlled by democratic principles.

    Here, in the U.S., we see a combination of the Democratic Party, the Left-Wing Media, and the Entertainment industry, as well as wealthy capitalists benefiting from this coalition, using propaganda to manipulate the people into giving them their rights and democratic control. I think this is already largely true in Europe.

    My question is: Do you think this return to stronger central government, in the US and Europe, is a return to "kings" in the sense of one party systems and dictators? Do you think this is what Bible Prophecy had in mind when it referred to "10 kings" ruling alongside Antichrist?
    They are called 10 horns and thus Kings by Daniel, but Horns are really just powers. The Little Horn will be a European President IMHO, but it is the same as a King for all intent purposes. Daniel could not foresee the futuristic variations that power would be bestowed upon peoples. Most Kings were passed from father to son, now days its more about political factions.

    The DEEP STATE basically runs the USA, the President moves in and has to worry about the deep state more than his opposition. From what I hear they sabotage the policies of Conservatives so bad that if 85 percent of them were laid-off they would get more done. So the Deep State is a bunch of Socialist/Marxists who SERVE THE BEAST in essence.

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    Re: states or kings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    This trend is very much visible in the rise of the monarchy of Saul. Samuel pleaded with the people not to go that way, but they refused to listen to him. He gave an amazing political statement in Samuel describing how ‘kingdoms’ inevitably abuse. But the alternative was not democracy; it was a system of 12 independent states loosely federated and lead by Judges. I think it would have been a good system if the people had followed the wisdom of their judges.
    Good point. I suggest, however, the democracy in the West today is more comparable to rule by judges than rule by kings. We are heading in the direction of rule by kings. Here in the U.S. even the judges are being deprived of their supposed neutrality, and are selected based on their "politics." We are heading ever more towards a one-party system.

    Fortunately, that hasn't happened yet. I've long said that a 2 party system is only one step away from a 1 party system!

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