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Thread: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

  1. #46
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    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    I don't view it as such. The elect are chosen of all races and peoples. Paul spoke of the elect of Israel but that's not to say the elect can only be Jewish. You aren't helping me because you are confused about who I believe the elect to be....you are just running on a false conclusion you made.
    Your ego seems to get the better of you because I said "to help you" otherwise, I see no reason for you to call me confused and running on a false conclusion despite agreeing with me that "the elect are chosen of all races and peoples". Since we are in agreement on this, then what's my supposed false conclusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Mourning is not the same as converting. The unsaved will mourn like this because they worshiped a false God and accepted his mark which means they go to the lake of fire.

    Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
    Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
    Zec 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
    Zec 12:13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
    Zec 12:14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

    This doesn't show any conversions here just mourning.

    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Same thing happens to all people on the Earth when Christ returns but this is not a worldwide conversion to Christianity. The unsaved mourn because they are sad and scared, ashamed of what they have done.

    Luk 6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
    Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

    They all are about to experience the vials of God's wrath which Revelation describes. Many will die.
    Revelation also says they refuse to repent.

    Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

    The only time I see where repentance might be possible is during the Millennium when Satan no longer can deceive those that refused Christ. But at the second coming Satan still has the power to deceive and that deception is so strong people refuse to repent even through the painful vials of God's wrath. So, the time for Jews or any non-Christian to repent and finally recognize the Messiah would be the Millennium.
    Indeed, the wicked will mourn in regret of their unbelief. However, the context of the text under discussion plainly indicate that the Jews will mourn when they finally realise their error (i.e. their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah) and subsequently come to faith.

    Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Read the text again, slowly, with emphasis on the emboldened words and consider the following:

    a. As an act of special dispensation, God will pour out the spirit of grace and supplication on them. It makes zero sense to believe that God will pour out grace and supplication on those who will not repent.

    b. The reference to the House of David denotes united Israel as ONE family since the division into two kingdoms (Judah and Israel) came after Solomon's reign.

    c. The spirit of grace and supplication they receive will remove the blindness of their heart, thus allowing them to see and understand what has been staring them in the face since the 1st advent of Jesus. No wonder their heart is cut to piece and they lament as one who's lost his firstborn.

  2. #47
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    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Nope. God chooses who the elect are, that's what the term means.

    G1589
    ἐκλογή
    eklogē
    Thayer Definition:
    1) the act of picking out, choosing
    1a) of the act of God’s free will by which before the foundation of the world he decreed his blessings to certain persons
    1b) the decree made from choice by which he determined to bless certain persons through Christ by grace alone
    2) a thing or person chosen
    2a) of persons: God’s elect
    Part of Speech: noun feminine
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G1586
    Citing in TDNT: 4:176, 505
    Yes, God chooses the elect. But my argument is they are not all saved right now, TODAY! Some are still in unbelief but will come to faith later.

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    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Your ego seems to get the better of you because I said "to help you" otherwise, I see no reason for you to call me confused and running on a false conclusion despite agreeing with me that "the elect are chosen of all races and peoples". Since we are in agreement on this, then what's my supposed false conclusion?

    It's all in the conversation history.

    Indeed, the wicked will mourn in regret of their unbelief. However, the context of the text under discussion plainly indicate that the Jews will mourn when they finally realise their error (i.e. their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah) and subsequently come to faith.
    Nothing is written about this "and subsequently come to faith." That is a doctrine of man.

    Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Read the text again, slowly, with emphasis on the emboldened words and consider the following:

    a. As an act of special dispensation, God will pour out the spirit of grace and supplication on them. It makes zero sense to believe that God will pour out grace and supplication on those who will not repent.
    You are assuming a repentance but there is none there. Read it with this in mind:

    Jer_3:21 A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the LORD their God.


    Also in Zech the same exact day this is written:

    Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
    Zec 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
    Zec 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
    Zec 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
    Zec 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
    Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
    Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
    Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
    Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

    Only a third survives and I believe that is a reference to the Christian remnant not new converts.





    c. The spirit of grace and supplication they receive will remove the blindness of their heart, thus allowing them to see and understand what has been staring them in the face since the 1st advent of Jesus. No wonder their heart is cut to piece and they lament as one who's lost his firstborn.
    More like they are so upset because they now realize how they abandoned the true God and now is the time to pay for it.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Yes, God chooses the elect. But my argument is they are not all saved right now, TODAY! Some are still in unbelief but will come to faith later.
    Before the tribulation but I see nothing about any conversions on the day of the Return.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Nothing is written about this "and subsequently come to faith." That is a doctrine of man.

    You are assuming a repentance but there is none there. Read it with this in mind:

    Jer_3:21 A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the LORD their God.


    Also in Zech the same exact day this is written:

    Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
    Zec 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
    Zec 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
    Zec 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
    Zec 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
    Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
    Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
    Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
    Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

    Only a third survives and I believe that is a reference to the Christian remnant not new converts.

    More like they are so upset because they now realize how they abandoned the true God and now is the time to pay for it.
    Sigh...

    You just ignore scripture, and go on to build sand castles instead. You don't believe the two witnesses will turn the heart of many Jews to Christ, please tell me what the below means?

    Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

    6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


  6. #51
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    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Before the tribulation but I see nothing about any conversions on the day of the Return.
    Who said the conversion will be on the specific day of the Lord's return? The Day of the Lord is not a 24hr day. The 2W would have done their job 3.5 before the coming of the Messiah. IOSW, the mass conversion will occur 3.5years before Christ returns. The Jews would have converted before they take succour in the desert as I don't believe that God will protect a Christ-rejecting Jew.

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    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Sigh...

    You just ignore scripture, and go on to build sand castles instead. You don't believe the two witnesses will turn the heart of many Jews to Christ, please tell me what the below means?

    Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

    6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

    Let's tone down the whole "you just ignore scripture" when you ask simplistic questions like above ok?

    Here's your answer:

    Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
    Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
    Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
    Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Who said the conversion will be on the specific day of the Lord's return? The Day of the Lord is not a 24hr day. The 2W would have done their job 3.5 before the coming of the Messiah. IOSW, the mass conversion will occur 3.5years before Christ returns. The Jews would have converted before they take succour in the desert as I don't believe that God will protect a Christ-rejecting Jew.
    Still, not a word about any of this in scripture. It's purely imaginary.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The context excludes them and only includes the remnant. Paul does write of hoping to save "some of them" and also says removed branches can be re-attached to the Israel tree if individual branches accept Christ but there is no mention of a mass conversion of the last human generation of the 12 tribes.
    That makes little sense. How would those of Israel who are of the faith of Abraham, trusting in Messiah, the ones who are grafted back into their own tree? Why would they need to be grafted in if they were never broken off?

    But to the the portion of your statement that I highlighted... there is mention of those of physical Israel realizing their error and rejection of Messiah and corporately turn back to Yeshua and call out for His return.

    Speaking to the leadership, Yeshua states....

    Matthew 23:39 (NKJV) for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!

    Which I believe is a reference to Hosea....

    Hosea 5:15 - 6:2 (NKJV Strong's,) I will return again to My place
    Till they acknowledge their offense.
    Then they will seek My face;
    In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”

    (For Him to return to His place, He had to have left it. This is clearly the Messiah)

    1 Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us;
    He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
    2 After two days He will revive us;
    On the third day He will raise us up,
    That we may live in His sight.

    And is it referencing the Jewish people of the latter days? When one combined Hosea 6:2 with...

    Psalms 90:4 (NKJV) For a thousand years in Your sight
    Are like yesterday when it is past,
    And like a watch in the night.

    2 Peter 3:8 (NKJV) But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    Israel.... the Believer's insurance policy!

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    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by -loNe View Post
    ...you got caught in Canaan's Hoax that "this country isreal is from God" love .

    there *is* no difference .
    but their created 'difference' between that country [they founded in 47 ,
    according to Ezekiel : "aha! says Esau , finally those ancient mountains (palestine) is ours !

    prophecy uses the term 'israel' absolutely not referring to "this present country , Esau created"

    = hoax of the past 70 years
    - with the goal to delude christians
    It just has to be responded to.....

    Ezekiel 4, poor ol' Zeke is told to lie on one side and then the other for a specific number of days which would represent the years of punishment that Israel and Judah deserve. 430 years.

    70 of those years ticked off in the Babylonian Exile. When granted the opportunity to return, most of those exiled refused. Only a remnant returned with Ezra and Nehemiah.

    The Lord says that when the Hebrew people are NOT living in the land, His name if profaned among the nations....

    Ezekiel 36:20 (NKJV) When they came to the nations, wherever they went, they profaned My holy name—when they said of them, ‘These are the people of the Lord, and yet they have gone out of His land.’

    So, the majority of the Hebrew people profaned the Lord's name by not returning to the Land from Babylon. 360 years of punishment remained. The Lord, in Leviticus 26, says that if after they have been chastised the Hebrew people remain in disobedience, He will multiply their punishment by 7 times.


    So, 360 years multiplied by 7 is 2520 years. That is 907200 days by the 360 day Lunar calendar used by the Hebrews. That comes out to 2483.78 years by the 365.25 day solar calendar we use.

    The decree by Cyrus to return to the Land was given in early fall of 537 BC. That would be -536.3 for math purposes.

    -536.3 plus 2483.78 years is 1947.48. Since there is no "zero" year between BC and AD, we add one to the number. That gives us 1948.48 which is May 1948, when modern Israel became a nation.

    From the time of the Babylonian captivity until May of 1948, Israel had not been a unified nation under their own central government control. They had been under foreign control for all that time with the lone exception of the Hasmonean period between Greece and Roman control which they were not under central government but ruled by various sectarian interests like the Saducees, Pharisees, etc. Only in 1948 did then once again become a unified country under their own government.

    Israel as a nation sitting where it is today being ruled over by its own central government from Jerusalem is probably the greatest fulfillment of prophesy of our age. To dismiss it is monumental myopia. And to dismiss it is dangerously close to calling YHVH a liar.

    Be careful when tossing around delusion accusations.
    Israel.... the Believer's insurance policy!

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    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by GenJesus View Post
    I think I know of a doctrine, about being "Spiritual Israel". That's in Rom 11; I think.
    I claim Jesus and Yahweh God. I claim John 3:16. My biggest problem about the NT; is about such teachings as being "Spiritual Israel".
    Am I; "Spiritual Israel"? I don't know specifically. I don't think; I'm S. I.

    Yes; I do need to read Romans; yet if I don't know how to apply; "Spiritual Israel"; then that doesn't apply to ME.
    Am I correct? "Spiritual Israel", doesn't apply to me; If I don't know how to apply?
    If I were to say; I am "Spiritual Israel"; then an Adventist would insist at me; that an Ellen "Sabbath" church; applies to me as well.
    Look at Gen.35:11
    "God also said to him (Israel), "I am God Almighty; Be fruitful and multiply; A nation and a company of nations shall come from you, And kings shall come forth from you."

    In Hebrew this is a Goy and a "kehal (congregation or church) hagoyim (of Gentiles or nations)

    So then Israel was always 2 different entities. That was God's intent all along. The physical nation and also the spiritual congregation or church.

  12. #57

    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by GenJesus View Post
    I think I know of a doctrine, about being "Spiritual Israel". That's in Rom 11; I think.
    I claim Jesus and Yahweh God. I claim John 3:16. My biggest problem about the NT; is about such teachings as being "Spiritual Israel".
    Am I; "Spiritual Israel"? I don't know specifically. I don't think; I'm S. I.

    Yes; I do need to read Romans; yet if I don't know how to apply; "Spiritual Israel"; then that doesn't apply to ME.
    Am I correct? "Spiritual Israel", doesn't apply to me; If I don't know how to apply?
    If I were to say; I am "Spiritual Israel"; then an Adventist would insist at me; that an Ellen "Sabbath" church; applies to me as well.
    There are many scriptures that speak of the true Israel of God. I see no real separation tween folk who are joined by Him in the vine. We are all truly one

  13. #58

    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Yes, God chooses the elect. But my argument is they are not all saved right now, TODAY! Some are still in unbelief but will come to faith later.
    Yes, I agree with you

  14. #59

    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    I have deeply studied this subject in the Bible - concerning spiritual Israel ( gentiles ) who are adopted and grafted - and the natural seed, root, and vine of Israel. I see that the forum has arrived to the Biblical time frame concerning the Battle Of Armageddon - the Armada of saints who are lead by Yahoshua The Anointing descending from heaven.

    And i am still learning today - i really enjoyed reading through your forum and I wanted to respond and explain how that I have noticed that there are many, many verses where God directly is saying that He personally will make His dwelling place and inhabitation and HIS THRONE = in Jerusalem.

    Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. 28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
    Psa 9:11 Sing praises to the LORD, which dwelleth in Zion: declare among the people his doings.
    Psalm 76:2 His tabernacle is in Salem; ( Jerusalem ) His dwelling place also is in Zion.
    Joel 3:17 Then you will know that I am the LORD your God, Dwelling in Zion.
    Joel 3:21 For the LORD dwells in Zion.
    Zechariah 8:3 "Thus says the LORD, 'I will return to Zion and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem Then Jerusalem will be called the City of Truth, and the mountain of the LORD of hosts will be called the Holy Mountain.'
    Psalm 132:13 For the LORD has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His habitation. :14 "This is My resting place forever; Here I will dwell, for I have desired it.
    Psalm 135:21 Blessed be the LORD from Zion, Who dwells in Jerusalem. Praise the LORD.

    IN this regard, is this God's resting place. ? – through His Son - Yahoshua. The Father manifested in flesh. -= Saying - This is My resting place forever. - and Yahoshua is also the very fruit of the body of David - that is to sit on the throne in Jerusalem. ?

    THE THRONE BELONGS TO YAHOSHUA - BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF DAVID. ?

    Does the Bible explain that through Yahoshua – God himself will inhabit Jerusalem and will sit upon the throne..
    AND THAT - THE THRONE OF JERUSALEM IS THE THRONE OF THE FATHER FOREVER. ?
    1Ch 29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king.
    Zec 3:8 Hear now, O Yahoshua high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
    Zec 6:12 Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: :13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne....
    Jer 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
    Eze 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever,
    Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: ......and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. :7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
    Isa 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
    Isa 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. 23 And I will fasten him as a NAIL in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.
    Lam 5:19 Thou, O LORD, remainest for ever; thy throne from generation to generation.
    Mic 4:6 In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; :7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.

    I believe that it could be saying that Yahoshua will sit on the throne of David - in Jerusalem. And that Yahoshua returns a third time to earth to fight for His earthly kingdom in Jerusalem where Yahoshua will sit on the throne of His Father David.
    Is this a third coming - The battle of Armageddon. The Armada of saints. When Christ return back to Israel to defend His chosen people.

    You may not agree or, see things this way - but nevertheless, I believe that this is what i am seeing of what will transpire, according to the BIble. Perhaps You could give some advice andkindly help me to understand and clarify if I am mistaken here ? . in all humility, reverance and respect - Thank You.

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    Re: Being "Spiritual Israel"?

    To understand the bible, the first thing you must get straight is to whom it is addressed. Just like a letter to your uncle, you can read it and learn from it, but when it commands something you are not bound by that command because it was not addressed to you. Portions of the bible are addressed to Jews, gentiles, or the church of God. The entire law of Moses was addressed to the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, the people we now call Jews. The other tribes of the Israelites were not bound by the law, neither were gentiles, and neither are Christians.

    There are seven bookos in the new testament, called "church epistles". They are addressed to Christians. You really should read them so you know what you are supposed to believe.

    It is not reliable to let people tell you what the bible says. Many people will make up stuff because they don't know what it says, and many will make up stuff because they wish it would not say what it says. You just have to read it for yourself. Read a chapter of Proverbs every day. Proverbs has 31 chapters so you can keep your place by just looking at a calendar. There is no religion or nothing in Proverbs and you don't have to believe anything. Just read to find wisdom. When you are comfortable with that, then read the bible from Romans to 2 Thessalonians over and over until you start to remember what it says. That is the part that applies to Christians.

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