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Thread: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

  1. #16
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    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Quite simply because she hits all of the buttons talking points of young Socialists and gives the press - both pro and con - plenty to talk about.
    This. The press is very, very liberal. They've been biased for years. Also, because of how government programs have damaged this nation, many of the younger crowd have never seen a true market based economy. As a result, they are more socialist than ever before. Also, masculinity and religion is under attack like never before. Combine those 4 things, and you have a chance for a young, photogenic, female socialist politician to make the liberal press swoon.

    My hope and prayer is that revival breaks out in this country and that the younger crowd has the opportunity to actually exprience capitalism as it is meant to be. Those two things would do more to move this country to the right than anything else. President Reagan was a great teacher/communicator. But the country is so far to the left now, there's simply no way that he could carry 49 of 50 states today. It is amazing how far left we have gone in a generation. So much so that many think that what was common/moderate a generation ago, is extreme today and what was extreme back then, is considered common or moderate today. When it comes to morality, we are reprobate as a nation and embracing things that even 10 years ago were considered taboo. The enemy (by that I mean the devil and his hoard) is much better at moving the "middle" leftward than we are at holding our ground. Part of it, I am sure, is a backlash against hard core religion rather than pure and undefiled religion. But in the end, most of us, in our natural state, hate God's morality.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  2. #17
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    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    There's several ways to answer that question. Do you mean does he govern as a moderate? Not at all [...] I would argue that President Trump has been more conservative a president than any this country has had since President Reagan, the last great president we had.
    So, how would you define far right?
    여러분은 주님 안에서 항상 기뻐하십시오. 내가 다시 말합니다. 기뻐하십시오.
    모든 사람을 너그럽게 대하십시오. 주님께서 오실 날이 가까웠습니다. Philippians 4


  3. #18

    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    Wondering aloud here, When was capitalism as it is meant to be? Anyone can answer that or not.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  4. #19
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    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    So, how would you define far right?
    .

    That’s a subjective definition. JFK’s definitions would certainly be different than Cortez’s.

    However JFK’s definition of far left would be Cortez’s mainstream policies.

    Something to think about

  5. #20
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    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    That’s a subjective definition.
    That's why I'm asking what his definition is, so we aren't just talking past one another.
    여러분은 주님 안에서 항상 기뻐하십시오. 내가 다시 말합니다. 기뻐하십시오.
    모든 사람을 너그럽게 대하십시오. 주님께서 오실 날이 가까웠습니다. Philippians 4


  6. #21
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    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    In all sincerity, I think defining the middle must come first. If there isn't a clear consensus of where/what the "Middle" actually is how is it possible to determine what is right or left of it?

    As an added bonus it might be beneficial to determine if the middle is fixed or if it has fluctuated over time and what factors caused the change.

    Or...people could just throw talking points at each other and have a same old same old thread.
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
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    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
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  7. #22

    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    In all sincerity, I think defining the middle must come first. If there isn't a clear consensus of where/what the "Middle" actually is how is it possible to determine what is right or left of it?

    As an added bonus it might be beneficial to determine if the middle is fixed or if it has fluctuated over time and what factors caused the change.

    Or...people could just throw talking points at each other and have a same old same old thread.
    This is interesting! I don't really know where I would start answering that question personally, What are your thoughts on the middle?
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  8. #23
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    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    I'll throw this out just as a starter -

    It's clearly fluctuated and shifted as we've moved away from capitalism and towards the aberration we have now. Keep in mind that American capitalism's principle was individual freedoms and ownership and the ability to do what you wished with it as long as you weren't violating others rights or forcibly subjugating others.

    Because American capitalism was also about the rights of individuals and the governments primary duty was to protect those rights and our security.

    We long ago ceased to be a capitalist society and have become a corporate society which is a completely different thing altogether - and our politics on both sides have followed suit as foreign corporations and their lobbyists have gained an obscene amount of influence in D.C.
    Day by day
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  9. #24

    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    I'll throw this out just as a starter -

    It's clearly fluctuated and shifted as we've moved away from capitalism and towards the aberration we have now. Keep in mind that American capitalism's principle was individual freedoms and ownership and the ability to do what you wished with it as long as you weren't violating others rights or forcibly subjugating others.

    Because American capitalism was also about the rights of individuals and the governments primary duty was to protect those rights and our security.

    We long ago ceased to be a capitalist society and have become a corporate society which is a completely different thing altogether - and our politics on both sides have followed suit as foreign corporations and their lobbyists have gained an obscene amount of influence in D.C.
    Do you believe that there is some period in american history where american style capitalism was closest to the ideal, and when would that have been? Do you believe that the cause of this shift away from the ideal was primarily foreign influence?
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  10. #25
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    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    With all due respect, I'm not getting into the 100 questions thing with you. I gave my opinion based upon my understanding based on my study of the history of our country including the speeches, letters, books and interviews of past American leaders ( starting with the founders of course ) and also the laws, regulations etc etc.

    However - No. It's never been "Ideal." No governmental system or society has been or ever will be. It wasn't meant or expected to be ideal but part of the "Pursuit of happiness" and flexible depending on the times and economy.
    Day by day
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  11. #26
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    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    Grrr...since I can't edit I'll have to double post.

    Our founding fathers and a couple generations after would have been willing to take up arms to prevent the massive corporate and foreign influence upon our government and society we see today.

    I'll let you make your own deductions and would like to see an actual response to my posts - not just more questions.
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
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  12. #27

    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    With all due respect, I'm not getting into the 100 questions thing with you. I gave my opinion based upon my understanding based on my study of the history of our country including the speeches, letters, books and interviews of past American leaders ( starting with the founders of course ) and also the laws, regulations etc etc.

    However - No. It's never been "Ideal." No governmental system or society has been or ever will be. It wasn't meant or expected to be ideal but part of the "Pursuit of happiness" and flexible depending on the times and economy.
    I specifically asked when it was closest to ideal because I didn't believe you were suggesting it was ever actually ideal, but based on Mark and then your comments I suspected that you might believe that there was a high water mark of sorts at least. I feel like if I could see what period you believed we were doing as well as we ever have I could begin to understand what your baseline was. I believe that understanding what you think we should be getting back to in more specificity is a way to approach if not understanding, if not consensus. I don't know how to get more specific without questions,but okay I will not ask you 98 more questions.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  13. #28

    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Grrr...since I can't edit I'll have to double post.

    Our founding fathers and a couple generations after would have been willing to take up arms to prevent the massive corporate and foreign influence upon our government and society we see today.

    I'll let you make your own deductions and would like to see an actual response to my posts - not just more questions.
    I don't see why I would just deduce stuff about your positions when you could just clarify yourself, but okay a couple is 2 so 3 generations, if a generation is about 25 years, so 75 years,if we start at 1776, that puts us at 1851, if we just round that up to 100 years we get the period when you believe that american capitalism was as close to its ideal as it has ever been was the period between 1776 & 1876. What do I have to say about that time period? I think that it was a very different world than the one that we live in, but i'd have to agree that the level of foreign money and influence was much lower both in real terms and in relative terms. I would also say that I do not believe that we could simply re-calibrate our laws to and hearts and minds to get us back to anything that resembles that because the rest of the world will continue to evolve.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  14. #29
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    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    So, how would you define far right?
    Well, I would rather define what I consider the middle. Some folks get labeled as "far right" that I would consider far left because of what they have in common with the left.

    Anyway, to start, I would say that in the US, the constitution should define the middle. Any move off of that, should be considered "right" or "left". And to move the constitution, should require an amendment rather than some judges saying that it means something other than what it says.

    Second, I would say that the middle should start with scripture as well and what God intended for government to be. In that case, we can see that God gave government the sword. But to the church, he wanted them to be merciful. So the government is to bring God's wrath upon evil/wickedness but the church is to show mercy to those who would do evil/wicked. When those two roles are mixed up, we get some bad results. When the church takes up the sword, they too often move into self righteous indignation and use the word to draw blood. When the government takes up mercy, they do not bring with it the power of God for change. IOW, would the prodigal son have repented if the government had met his need?

    Here's the middle for me politically (the 10th amendment):

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    The federal government is involved in many things that the constitution does not delegate to it. That is unfortunate. Many of our political problems today stem from that gross error. The courts have allowed it, partly because FDR threatened way back when to pack the court with judges till they changed the constitution by fiat (something that was never intended to happen by the founders). It has continually gotten worse since then. However, if we went back to federalism, as was intended by many of our founders, then California could do as they wanted and Alabama could do as they wanted. However, part of the problem we would have with that now, is the misuse of the 14th amendment. But that's another discussion.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  15. #30
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    Re: Why has Ocasio-Cortez become the most famous congress person?

    Edit to add: Since I can't modify my post above....

    JFK would be considered a conservative in today's world. His tax policies were copied by Ronald Reagan. To me, left and right, are far more ambigious because political folks (including voters) abuse the word. For instance, republicans get labeled extremist and racist by the left as a default. Yet, identity politics is by its very nature, extremist, racist, and sexist. But when the left (who seem to me to be extremely extreme) label their self identified "enemies" as extremist, well, it moves the needle in the middle for some folks. Then, left and right is applied to those in the past to shame or compare with current folks as a way to devalue, or demean, or to disable the arguments from the other side.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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