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Thread: the wound of the beast

  1. #271

    Re: the wound of the beast

    I donít worry about end times. Remember when Peter was in the boat and Jesus told him to come to him? He got out the boat and onto the water, started to walk and then winds picked up and lighting started and he took his eyes and attention off Christ because of it , he fell in the water. So I feel We should not worry about end times just focus on Christ So that we may be strengthened when it does happen and have the faith to know our lord and savior is with us. He will deliver us.

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Israel since the cross were those who accepted Jesus and those who did not. Those who did not were removed from Israel, and gentile believers were added to Israel.

    As you correct say, no replacing was done. Only removing and adding was done.

    What changed was who is qualified to be called Israel. Once it was just being related to the sons of Jacob but that changed to who had faith in the Messiah. So there is a true, faithful Israel and a false non-faithful Israel. These can be re-attached and be Israel again only if they accept Christ.
    How very true I fully agree

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by GodTruthTrust View Post
    I don’t worry about end times. Remember when Peter was in the boat and Jesus told him to come to him? He got out the boat and onto the water, started to walk and then winds picked up and lighting started and he took his eyes and attention off Christ because of it , he fell in the water. So I feel We should not worry about end times just focus on Christ So that we may be strengthened when it does happen and have the faith to know our lord and savior is with us. He will deliver us.
    Yes you are right we should not worry but people just have different views of what the end times are

    Quote Originally Posted by GodTruthTrust View Post
    I donít worry about end times. Remember when Peter was in the boat and Jesus told him to come to him? He got out the boat and onto the water, started to walk and then winds picked up and lighting started and he took his eyes and attention off Christ because of it , he fell in the water. So I feel We should not worry about end times just focus on Christ So that we may be strengthened when it does happen and have the faith to know our lord and savior is with us. He will deliver us.
    Yes you are right we should not worry but people just have different views of what the end times are

  4. #274
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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by GodTruthTrust View Post
    I don’t worry about end times. Remember when Peter was in the boat and Jesus told him to come to him? He got out the boat and onto the water, started to walk and then winds picked up and lighting started and he took his eyes and attention off Christ because of it , he fell in the water. So I feel We should not worry about end times just focus on Christ So that we may be strengthened when it does happen and have the faith to know our lord and savior is with us. He will deliver us.
    We aren't to worry, however God tells us things in order that we may be equipped to do His good works.
    Understanding what God has revealed to us is therefore an important part of our walk with Him.

    Quote Originally Posted by GodTruthTrust View Post
    I donít worry about end times. Remember when Peter was in the boat and Jesus told him to come to him? He got out the boat and onto the water, started to walk and then winds picked up and lighting started and he took his eyes and attention off Christ because of it , he fell in the water. So I feel We should not worry about end times just focus on Christ So that we may be strengthened when it does happen and have the faith to know our lord and savior is with us. He will deliver us.
    We aren't to worry, however God tells us things in order that we may be equipped to do His good works.
    Understanding what God has revealed to us is therefore an important part of our walk with Him.

  5. #275
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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Heís not replaceing with the church heís saying that there is one line of the faithful before and after the cross

    Israel didnít replace anyone either they just carried the line for a while remember what Paul said their is no Jew or gentile
    That is exactly what anyone does that doesn't understand that the Church and Israel are two different entities. Jews can be a part of the Church like Paul/Peter were, but the vast majority of the Jews will be blinded until the Church is Raptured, then they will see again as in the scales will be taken off of their eyes. That is why Israel are blinded IN PART and not in full. Israel was called by God and that calling is WITHOUT REPENTANCE (you can read all of this in Romans ch. 11).

    Paul is not speaking on nationality when he says there is no Jew nor Greek, have you ever really studied that in depth sir ? I have, and it means no such thing as pertaining to there are no Greeks or Jews per se. It is referring to the Spiritual sense, we all must come to Christ via the Blood of Jesus, be we Jew or Gentile, BUT.....That has ZERO to do with when God has decided to deal with the two entities !! God will not give Israel their sight back until after the Rapture. Thus the Church goes to heaven to marry the Lamb and Israel stays on the earth as THE WHEAT and abide until the end with the WICKED TARES !!

    No one comes to God but by FAITH ALONE be they Jew or Gentile. Abraham came to God by Faith because him believing God was his Righteousness, likewise we are made righteous by our Faith in Jesus Christ. So Jew and Gentile are the same, but Israel and the Gentiles have a different timeline via God's own purpose.

    So the Church is nt Israel and Israel s not the Church...........That is Replacement Theology, and a main reason some people can't see the obvious.

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    How is that a parallel when it does not match?

    was, and is not; and shall ascend

    does not match

    which is, and which was, and which is to come
    In rev 17 the beast is described in three stages and is in the last stage upon the earth (yet is). Thus he "was" (in heaven) "is not" (wounded cast down to hell) "yet is" (healed).

    Now in Rev 1 we see again three stages mentioned in relation to Christ. Though the first two not worded exact as it appears the first two are switched with the last the same upon the earth (descending not ascending of course). Christ was wounded and then healed, right?

    What this is indicating is the beast is counterfeiting Christ. Not to mention his 42 month reign, his reigning from a city likened after the city of God, and to his scarlet vesture he is wearing.

    I could also include the 7 heads, 12 horns and 4 beasts in the counterfeit kingdom all numbers in God's as well. And there is more.....

    So too then theses three stages also coincide with Christ. It is too close of a connection not to be overlooked.

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Christ was wounded and then healed, right?
    No he was killed and was dead for three days then he resurrected into a glorified body.

    One of the beast kingdoms mountains were wounded and healed...no death and no resurrection there. As I said, no connection when one looks at each in detail.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    That is exactly what anyone does that doesn't understand that the Church and Israel are two different entities. Jews can be a part of the Church like Paul/Peter were, but the vast majority of the Jews will be blinded until the Church is Raptured, then they will see again as in the scales will be taken off of their eyes. That is why Israel are blinded IN PART and not in full. Israel was called by God and that calling is WITHOUT REPENTANCE (you can read all of this in Romans ch. 11).

    Paul is not speaking on nationality when he says there is no Jew nor Greek, have you ever really studied that in depth sir ? I have, and it means no such thing as pertaining to there are no Greeks or Jews per se. It is referring to the Spiritual sense, we all must come to Christ via the Blood of Jesus, be we Jew or Gentile, BUT.....That has ZERO to do with when God has decided to deal with the two entities !! God will not give Israel their sight back until after the Rapture. Thus the Church goes to heaven to marry the Lamb and Israel stays on the earth as THE WHEAT and abide until the end with the WICKED TARES !!

    No one comes to God but by FAITH ALONE be they Jew or Gentile. Abraham came to God by Faith because him believing God was his Righteousness, likewise we are made righteous by our Faith in Jesus Christ. So Jew and Gentile are the same, but Israel and the Gentiles have a different timeline via God's own purpose.

    So the Church is nt Israel and Israel s not the Church...........That is Replacement Theology, and a main reason some people can't see the obvious.
    Yes I have studied that and of course the "no Jew or Gentile is spiritual as in true Israel which is the line of the faithful before and after the cross from Adam until today

    When it says that Israel is blinded it isn't saying that God is stopping them from turning to Him it is saying that God is not drawing them to Him just like when God hardened Pharaohs heart God didn't make him sin God held back from him. Gods will is for all men to repent and turn to Him all of the time.

    The proof of that is Christian Jews today because as Jesus said in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus "the Jews have the law and the prophets" and "they won't believe even if someone rises from the dead". The law and the prophets is all that they need as some will realize that Jesus is the Messiah but some won't. Jesus was also predicting His death and resurrection and most still didn't believe.

    How else could we explain converting Jews today?

  9. #279
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    Re: the wound of the beast

    This issue is far simpler than it is made out to be. The beast of Rev 13 is the same beast of Daniel 7. The beast from the sea is the 4th kingdom:

    *[[Dan 7:23]] KJV* Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

    This kingdom is federation of 10 nations, metaphorically illustrated by 10 horns in both Daniel 7 and Rev 13. Where the mistake is made is not seeing that the little horn rises AMONG the 10 horns and is not the one who rises after him:

    *[[Dan 7:8]] KJV* I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up AMONG them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    Two other important points from this verse are:
    1. Three of the ten horns are plucked up, leaving 7.
    2. This (little) horn speaks great words AND he dies.

    *[[Dan 7:11]] KJV* I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

    The 7 remaining horns are the 7 heads found in Rev 13 ruling over this 10 nation confederate kingdom (the beast!). So when Rev 13 says that one of his (7) heads dies and then his deadly/ deathly wound odds healed, it is not the beast, but one of its 7 heads. This is no less than one of the 7 rulers that dies and Daniel makes it clear that it is the little horn that dies because he is the one speaking the great words.

    *[[Dan 7:20]] KJV* And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

    But let us not lose sight of the fact that the beast odds the kingdom, and not a man, least wise, not a single man, but there are 2 men who rule this kingdom.
    To be continued
    Blessings
    The PuP

    This issue is far simpler than it is made out to be. The beast of Rev 13 is the same beast of Daniel 7. The beast from the sea is the 4th kingdom:

    *[[Dan 7:23]] KJV* Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

    This kingdom is federation of 10 nations, metaphorically illustrated by 10 horns in both Daniel 7 and Rev 13. Where the mistake is made is not seeing that the little horn rises AMONG the 10 horns and is not the one who rises after him:

    *[[Dan 7:8]] KJV* I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up AMONG them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    Two other important points from this verse are:
    1. Three of the ten horns are plucked up, leaving 7.
    2. This (little) horn speaks great words AND he dies.

    *[[Dan 7:11]] KJV* I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

    The 7 remaining horns are the 7 heads found in Rev 13 ruling over this 10 nation confederate kingdom (the beast!). So when Rev 13 says that one of his (7) heads dies and then his deadly/ deathly wound odds healed, it is not the beast, but one of its 7 heads. This is no less than one of the 7 rulers that dies and Daniel makes it clear that it is the little horn that dies because he is the one speaking the great words.

    *[[Dan 7:20]] KJV* And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

    But let us not lose sight of the fact that the beast odds the kingdom, and not a man, least wise, not a single man, but there are 2 men who rule this kingdom.
    To be continued
    Blessings
    The PuP

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No he was killed and was dead for three days then he resurrected into a glorified body.
    IS 53:5
    But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed

    Thus "wounded" can mean "death". If we took your logic then per this verse Christ did not die.

    One of the beast kingdoms mountains were wounded and healed...no death and no resurrection there. As I said, no connection when one looks at each in detail.

    Scripture says it was a deadly wound.

    And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

    So you are saying the wound was "almost" deadly a wound so severe it could have caused death.......if that were the case it would have just said "wound".

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    IS 53:5
    But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed

    Thus "wounded" can mean "death". If we took your logic then per this verse Christ did not die.
    I'm saying he wasn't just wounded and that's all. He died. Nothing I say results in Christ not dying. Just because the verse doesn't mention dying doesn't equal "logic" that Jesus didn't die.


    Scripture says it was a deadly wound.
    It's a wound that would have led to death if not healed. It is not a wound that resulted in a death.


    And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

    So you are saying the wound was "almost" deadly a wound so severe it could have caused death.......if that were the case it would have just said "wound".
    It was a very serious wound that's why wound alone is not enough.

    Barnes:

    Revelation 13:3

    And I saw one of his heads, as it were wounded to death - The phrase “wounded to death” means properly that it received a mortal wound, that is, the wound would have been mortal if it had not been healed. A blow was struck that would be naturally fatal, but there was something that prevented the fatal result.

    A wound that caused death cannot be "healed". That takes a resurrection not a healing. To heal means to recover so the healing occurred before death happened. Example, someone shot in the head but is still alive. It's a deadly wound if not treated in a hospital. After surgery and medication the Doctor says he will recover and heal. That's what we are seeing in Revelation.


    Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

    See? The beast did not die from the wound and had a resurrection. It was wounded and was able to live, the wound healing up and death avoided.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    This issue is far simpler than it is made out to be. The beast of Rev 13 is the same beast of Daniel 7. The beast from the sea is the 4th kingdom:

    *[[Dan 7:23]] KJV* Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

    This kingdom is federation of 10 nations, metaphorically illustrated by 10 horns in both Daniel 7 and Rev 13. Where the mistake is made is not seeing that the little horn rises AMONG the 10 horns and is not the one who rises after him:

    *[[Dan 7:8]] KJV* I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up AMONG them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    Two other important points from this verse are:
    1. Three of the ten horns are plucked up, leaving 7.
    2. This (little) horn speaks great words AND he dies.

    *[[Dan 7:11]] KJV* I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

    The 7 remaining horns are the 7 heads found in Rev 13 ruling over this 10 nation confederate kingdom (the beast!). So when Rev 13 says that one of his (7) heads dies and then his deadly/ deathly wound odds healed, it is not the beast, but one of its 7 heads. This is no less than one of the 7 rulers that dies and Daniel makes it clear that it is the little horn that dies because he is the one speaking the great words.

    *[[Dan 7:20]] KJV* And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

    But let us not lose sight of the fact that the beast is the kingdom, and not a man, least wise, not a single man, but there are 2 men who rule this kingdom.
    To be continued
    Blessings
    The PuP
    The mistake that is made is to think that the 3 horns spoken here:

    *[[Dan 7:8]] KJV* I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.


    Is to equate that with the 3 kings here:

    *[[Dan 7:24]] KJV* And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.*[[Dan 7:24]] KJV* And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

    The little horn rises AMONG the 10 horns where 3 horns fall "before" him,

    *[[Dan 7:20]] KJV* And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and BEFORE whom three fell; even of that HORN that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

    But the difference is the one who is said to be another who rises AFTER the 10 horns and is said to subdue 3 KINGS, and not horns. This is referring to the first 3 kings (from the earth). Without the details that John provides us in Rev 13, the 3 horns and 3 kings blur into meaning the same thing. But John shows us that the beast from the sees is the same as the little horn that dies and his body given to the burning flame, that rules the beast (kingdom) as one of the 7 heads among 10 kingdoms that has the deadly wound and recovers. The one that arises after the 10 kings is the beast from the earth, THE FOURTH KING and the 4th KINGDOM. What is not grasped is that the lamb with 2 horns in Rev 13 (the beast from the earth) is the same as the Ram with 2 horns when he rises AFTER the demise of the little horn, reigning in his stead. The territory that the little horn reigns over is described as that of the lion, bear, and leopard. I.e., the combined territories of Babylon, MedoPersia, and Greece, which essentially is that of the Roman Empire. This is also equivalent to the "divided" part of the 4th kingdom of Daniel 2. But the wounded head is that of the little horn.

    Blessings
    The PuP

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Heís not replaceing with the church heís saying that there is one line of the faithful before and after the cross

    Israel didnít replace anyone either they just carried the line for a while remember what Paul said their is no Jew or gentile

    Yes Marty.

    One people from Adam till the end.

    Different names, different places, different times.

    One People.
    ďAĒ cannot be ďAĒ & not ďAĒ at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    But the difference is the one who is said to be another who rises AFTER the 10 horns and is said to subdue 3 KINGS, and not horns.
    Kings and horns are the same things. Daniel writes three times about these same 3 kings/horns that fall.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    In rev 17 the beast is described in three stages and is in the last stage upon the earth (yet is). Thus he "was" (in heaven) "is not" (wounded cast down to hell) "yet is" (healed).

    Now in Rev 1 we see again three stages mentioned in relation to Christ. Though the first two not worded exact as it appears the first two are switched with the last the same upon the earth (descending not ascending of course). Christ was wounded and then healed, right?

    What this is indicating is the beast is counterfeiting Christ. Not to mention his 42 month reign, his reigning from a city likened after the city of God, and to his scarlet vesture he is wearing.

    I could also include the 7 heads, 12 horns and 4 beasts in the counterfeit kingdom all numbers in God's as well. And there is more.....

    So too then theses three stages also coincide with Christ. It is too close of a connection not to be overlooked.
    Rev. 7 is about Apollyon, that is why the Rev. 17 Beast is Scarlet not Red like the Dragon, and why he has NO CROWNS. He was placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan. Thus he was OF THE SEVEN !! Thus he is an 8th. He's not a physical Beast as in the 7 Kingdoms, but a principality in high places, he was over all the Kingdoms that Beasted over the Mediterranean Sea Region. (Pssttt, he was the Prince of Persia who withstood Micheal for 21 days.)

    Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    So the DESTROYER (Apollyon) was put in place in the region and given the job of destroying Israel, but God was/is not of course not going to let that happen. Thus when Rome suffered the Mortal Wound Apollyon was placed in the Bottomless Pit, and that is why an Angel frees him from the pit in Rev. 9:1-12, he is released at the 1st Woe. Thus he was [Over the Mediterranean Sea Region] IS NOT (He is currently in the Bottomless Pit placed there by God during the Church Age) and he YET IS (his work in the region is not yet over, he will be freed once again, then he will Kill the Two- Witnesses).

    You are going about it all wrong brother, FIND THE ENTITY First, then build out from there on your eschatology.

    Rev. 12 Red Dragon = Satan. (7 Crowns on the HEADS means he is over ALL NATIONS on Earth)

    Rev. 13 Beast from the Sea = the Anti-Christ/Man of Sin/Little Horn. (10 Crowns on the HORNS means he is over the 10 Kings in Europe.)

    Rev. 17 = Apollyon. ( NO CROWNS means he is under Satan and not a Physical Kingdom or King on Earth)

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    In rev 17 the beast is described in three stages and is in the last stage upon the earth (yet is). Thus he "was" (in heaven) "is not" (wounded cast down to hell) "yet is" (healed).

    Now in Rev 1 we see again three stages mentioned in relation to Christ. Though the first two not worded exact as it appears the first two are switched with the last the same upon the earth (descending not ascending of course). Christ was wounded and then healed, right?

    What this is indicating is the beast is counterfeiting Christ. Not to mention his 42 month reign, his reigning from a city likened after the city of God, and to his scarlet vesture he is wearing.

    I could also include the 7 heads, 12 horns and 4 beasts in the counterfeit kingdom all numbers in God's as well. And there is more.....

    So too then theses three stages also coincide with Christ. It is too close of a connection not to be overlooked.
    Rev. 7 is about Apollyon, that is why the Rev. 17 Beast is Scarlet not Red like the Dragon, and why he has NO CROWNS. He was placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan. Thus he was OF THE SEVEN !! Thus he is an 8th. He's not a physical Beast as in the 7 Kingdoms, but a principality in high places, he was over all the Kingdoms that Beasted over the Mediterranean Sea Region. (Pssttt, he was the Prince of Persia who withstood Micheal for 21 days.)

    Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    So the DESTROYER (Apollyon) was put in place in the region and given the job of destroying Israel, but God was/is not of course not going to let that happen. Thus when Rome suffered the Mortal Wound Apollyon was placed in the Bottomless Pit, and that is why an Angel frees him from the pit in Rev. 9:1-12, he is released at the 1st Woe. Thus he was [Over the Mediterranean Sea Region] IS NOT (He is currently in the Bottomless Pit placed there by God during the Church Age) and he YET IS (his work in the region is not yet over, he will be freed once again, then he will Kill the Two- Witnesses).

    You are going about it all wrong brother, FIND THE ENTITY First, then build out from there on your eschatology.

    Rev. 12 Red Dragon = Satan. (7 Crowns on the HEADS means he is over ALL NATIONS on Earth)

    Rev. 13 Beast from the Sea = the Anti-Christ/Man of Sin/Little Horn. (10 Crowns on the HORNS means he is over the 10 Kings in Europe.)

    Rev. 17 = Apollyon. ( NO CROWNS means he is under Satan and not a Physical Kingdom or King on Earth)

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