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Thread: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

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    What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    I would like to understand the following vision from the viewpoint of the Dispensational system of prophecy. What is the stone kingdom, and when did it arrive? Does it begin at John the Baptistís announcement (Matt. 3:1-2) and reach its ultimate expression at Christís second coming? Or, has it been deferred until the Millennial reign?

    ďYou saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.Ē

    ďThis was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation Ö in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever.Ē

    (Daniel 2:31ó36, 44)
    Thanks,

    Cyber
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    I would like to understand the following vision from the viewpoint of the Dispensational system of prophecy. What is the stone kingdom, and when did it arrive? Does it begin at John the Baptist’s announcement (Matt. 3:1-2) and reach its ultimate expression at Christ’s second coming? Or, has it been deferred until the Millennial reign?

    “You saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.”

    “This was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation … in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever.”

    (Daniel 2:31—36, 44)
    Thanks,

    Cyber
    First, the phrase ę stone kingdom Ľ doesn't occur in Scripture and for a good reason. The Stone is Christ in His second coming. Proof for this are texts like Gen. 49:24 ę But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty One of Jacob; (from thence is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel) Ľ. In Zecheriah 3:9 for example the engraved stone sees to Christ's suffering and dying. Mat. 21:44 says ę And whosoever shall fall on this stone (Christ) shall be broken Ľ, Isa. 8:14 says ę And he (Christ) shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem Ľ

    The Stone will grind everything and fill the whole earth. The grinding point to a process, not an sudden act, gradually the Kingdom of Heaven will spread over the earth — after the second coming of course. Also from this text it is clear that this is about the Kingdom of Heaven ę the God of heaven will set up a kingdom Ľ, so it is erected from the heavens, and for Daniel's people, hence Israel ę nor shall the kingdom be left to another people Ľ.

    What most people miss is that the whole image of Daniel will be there at the end of the aion, not the feet are just hid, ę a stone ... struck the image on its feet Ľ. So all five empires will be there in some form.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    I would like to understand the following vision from the viewpoint of the Dispensational system of prophecy. What is the stone kingdom, and when did it arrive? Does it begin at John the Baptistís announcement (Matt. 3:1-2) and reach its ultimate expression at Christís second coming? Or, has it been deferred until the Millennial reign?

    ďYou saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.Ē

    ďThis was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation Ö in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever.Ē

    (Daniel 2:31ó36, 44)
    Thanks,

    Cyber
    Dispensationally, the Kingdom of the "little stone" is Millennial. If the Head was Nebuchadnezzar, and Gold the form of government he administered (Autocracy - v.38), and the next Government was Cyrus and the Persians, which was administered as an Aristocracy, and was thus "inferior", and so on, the effigy showed GENTILE Government. The last Kingdom, what ever, and who ever it may be (let us not box a shadow for this thread), is the last kingdom under Gentile rule. As we know, this change of Government has not occurred yet.

    In Revelation Chapter 11, we have the change of Government. It occurs after the third "woe". The THREE woes are battles.
    1. In Chapter 9 "shapes" came out of the pit and were arrayed in "battle". The "Battle" was cruel as the shapes did not immediately kill, but tormented men five months with scorpion-like bites
    2. In Chapter 11 a second "battle" takes place in verse 7 - the Beast against the Two Witnesses, and the battle decided, an earthquke slays thousands of men. So it says in verse 14 that the second "Woe" is past.
    3. In Chapter 11 verse 14 it goes on to say that the third "Woe" "comes without delay" (lit. Gk.)
    4. In light if the fact that the first two "Woes" are battles, and the third "woe" follows "without delay" after the 1260 days, the third "Woe" must be Armageddon. The next verse, in the context of battle, says; "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever" (Rev.11:15)

    Armageddon is the place and time when our Lord Jesus - "little stone" cut out of a mountain 'without hands'" - destroys not only the feet of iron and clay, but the whole effigy. It is not only the last kingdom of the Gentiles that Christ defeats, but the whole effigy signifying that the TYPE of rule is destroyed - Gentile rule.

    This is still future to us as we discuss.

    Thus

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos
    ... The Stone is Christ in His second coming ...
    OK, gotcha. More questions about this later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos
    ... the God of heaven will set up a kingdom Ľ, so it is erected from the heavens, and for Daniel's people, hence Israel ę nor shall the kingdom be left to another people Ľ.

    What most people miss is that the whole image of Daniel will be there at the end of the aion, not the feed are just hid, ę a stone ... struck the image on its feet Ľ. So all five empires will be there in some form.
    So, are you saying that the 'gold' kingdom, the 'silver' kingdom, the 'bronze' kingdom, the 'iron' kingdom, will ALL be present at Christs second coming?
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls
    Dispensationally, the Kingdom of the "little stone" is Millennial.

    OK, so the Kingdom of the "little stone" is the Millenium dispensation. More questions about this later.


    Quote Originally Posted by Walls
    It is not only the last kingdom of the Gentiles that Christ defeats, but the whole effigy signifying that the TYPE of rule is destroyed - Gentile rule.
    Fair enough. This answers my last question to Aristarkos as well. But Im going to have more questions.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Daniel 2:38
    38 in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.

    If King Neb and the kingdom of Babylon is the head of Gold then the kingdom started in his time as the verse states below in Daniels time

    Daniel 2:44
    44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever

    Daniel 2:34-35
    34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them.
    35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

    How else could the rock crush them with one single blow?

    If it started with Jesus' earthly ministry how could it crush kingdoms hundreds before He came?

    Daniel 2:38
    38 in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.

    If King Neb and the kingdom of Babylon is the head of Gold then the kingdom started in his time as the verse states below in Daniels time

    Daniel 2:44
    44 ďIn the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever

    Daniel 2:34-35
    34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them.
    35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

    How else could the rock crush them with one single blow?

    If it started with Jesus' earthly ministry how could it crush kingdoms hundreds before He came?

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Folks seem to be saying that the kingdom arising from the rock not made by mans hands, is the Millennium. Is that what all dispensationalists are saying or only a few? I notice Clarence Larkin in one of his old diagrams seems to say that.

    So, next question please: Why does John and Jesus say, “The kingdom of God is at hand,” if in fact it was to be 2000 year away?
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    OK, gotcha. More questions about this later.

    So, are you saying that the 'gold' kingdom, the 'silver' kingdom, the 'bronze' kingdom, the 'iron' kingdom, will ALL be present at Christs second coming?
    That is what Scripture says, ę a stone ... struck the image on its feet Ľ, for the stone to hit the image, the whole image must be there otherwise it can't hit the image on its feet, it couldn't hit the image at all only hit ę feet Ľ.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Folks seem to be saying that the kingdom arising from the rock not made by mans hands, is the Millennium. Is that what all dispensationalists are saying or only a few? I notice Clarence Larkin in one of his old diagrams seems to say that.

    So, next question please: Why does John and Jesus say, ďThe kingdom of God is at hand if in fact it was to be 2000 year away?
    You know that looking back, at that time the Kingdom was to be erected, that's why it was at hand, all that needed to be done was for Israel to repent and accept their Messiah. Mat. 3:2 ę And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand Ľ. John 9:38 ę And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him Ľ. The King was already there, Mat. 2:2 ę Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? Ľ. This Kingdom was already promised in the O.T. by Jehovah (He who came later in the flesh as Christ) Exo. 19:6 ę And ye (Israel) shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation ... Ľ, but Israel preferred a king like the other countries around them 1 Sam. 8:7 ę And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them Ľ.

    The Kingdom of Heaven was offered twice, once in the Gospels, once in the Acts. Both times it was rejected and hence the dispensation of the Grace (Eph. 3:2) and the dispensation of the Mystery (Eph. 3:9 Greek text) started. That's why everything that was there in the Acts, isn't now. A lot of prophecy is still waiting for its fulfillment.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Sooo, when we pray the Lord's prayer, "Thy kingdom come," are we asking God for the Millennial dispensation to come, based in Jerusalem?
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Sooo, when we pray the Lord's prayer, "Thy kingdom come," are we asking God for the Millennial dispensation to come, based in Jerusalem?
    Only if one doesn't understand the difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven. This is obvious from Mat. 6:10 ę Thy kingdom come. Thy desire (Greek thelema) be done in earth, as it is in heaven Ľ. So your quote isn't about the Kingdom of Heaven as you're presuming.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Folks seem to be saying that the kingdom arising from the rock not made by mans hands, is the Millennium. Is that what all dispensationalists are saying or only a few? I notice Clarence Larkin in one of his old diagrams seems to say that.

    So, next question please: Why does John and Jesus say, ďThe kingdom of God is at hand if in fact it was to be 2000 year away?
    Daniel predicts a coming Kingdom that will crush and replace Gentile rule on earth. About 600 years later, first John Baptist, then our Lord Jesus announced that this Kingdom was "at hand". "At Hand" means that it is in reaching distance. The offer was on the table TO ISRAEL. By Matthew Chapter 11 Israel had rejected the offer. The Man Who was offering the Kingdom to them required that Israel admit their failure under Law, and their failure in general as men. The call was "repent", and "repent" means you admit that you are going the wrong way and must turn about 180į. This is too much for most men. In Israel's mind they had the Law and were keeping it, and the problems was the Roman Empire. They looked not for a King Who would deal with their Law-breaking, hardness of heart and blindness. The looked for the Son of David - a conquering warrior.

    The offer of the Kingdom having been refused, the King withdraws first the offer (Matt.21:43) and then Himself. He returns to heaven. With Him goes the Kingdom. Israel is left to her devices UNTIL the Lord returns. Peter, addressing "ye men of Israel" in Acts 3:12, goes on to say in verses 19-21;

    19 "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
    20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
    21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."


    So Israel are no longer eligible for the Kingdom. That is reserved for men who (i) accept the King, (ii) undergo a New and Heavenly birth, and (iii) are trained in righteousness. To raise up this new people worthy of the Kingdom needs TIME. Men like Peter, Paul, John and you and I, need years of rigorous training so that we will be co-kings with Christ that do not bring disgrace to this heavenly Kingdom. So the Kingdom is "shelved" for this period of (i) raising up a new people worthy of it, and (ii) training them to be worthy of it. The King is not given His throne immediately. During this time of building a New People worthy of the Kingdom, the King must sit in His Father's throne and wait. But, after the period stipulated by the Father, the Father will crown His Son and give Him His Own Throne. This is the scene of Revelation Chapter 4. This all summarized in Luke 19:11-12.

    11 "And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
    12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return."


    So the rule of thumb is; "where the King and His Throne are, there is the Kingdom."

    Our Lord Jesus was on earth in Israel and had His kingdom with Him. "But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you" (Luke 11:20). But the King is refused, rejected, conspired against and murdered. He withdraws to heaven - and His Kingdom goes with Him. 2,000 years must pass while a New People is raised up and trained. The Father then declares that the "time of the Gentiles are over". They have ruled the earth and the earth is a shambles. The Government must change. And so the New King - Jesus, is given the crown, given His throne, and given the order to change the Government on earth.

    On the way from heaven to earth, in the clouds, the King first orders His angels to gather the New People to judge them. The question is; "Has the training been accepted and diligently entered into?" Have the prospective co-kings denied themselves, taken their crosses daily, disciplined themselves to shun wealth, shun fame, shun high position and shun unrighteousness. Are they lovers of the King. Are they zealous for a change of Government? This is decided at the Judgement Seat of Christ in the air. And then those found worthy to be companions of Jesus the new King, will break forth from the clouds to join King Jesus in the process of changing the Government of this earth. It starts with a bloodbath at Armageddon and ends with the nations, the Gentiles, subdued under a rule of the rod of iron. Then will the Kingdom be in place.

    A Kingdom is a sphere where a certain king is present and rules. Our Lord Jesus was on earth and He rules the weather, the demons, sickness and death. But He is rejected and subsequently departs - the kingdom with Him. He remains in His Father's throne until the Father has set the conditions for a "takeover". Then He crowns His Son and issues Him a throne of His own. This newly crowned King at once sets out to apply this Kingdom to the earth. When it is settled on earth - "the Kingdom has come" and "God's will will be done on earth as it is in Heaven." The first 1,000 years of this Kingdom is on earth under present conditions. At the end of this 1,000 years, this Kingdom is tested. Satan is released and may go out to deceive again. Men, tired of the rule of the rod of iron, join Satan, and a huge army is raised up to conquer the seat of power - Jerusalem. But the Kingdom is "an everlasting Kingdom". It is tested but comes through gloriously. Magog and Gog are defeated in a brutal and sovereign way. Then, this tested and tried Kingdom rules on forever. God, to set aside any evidence of the wounds of the earth due to Satan's rebellion, RENEWS the earth to a pristine condition (literal Greek). And on this Renewed Earth, the heavenly kingdom of God RULES ON.

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Only if one doesn't understand the difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven. This is obvious from Mat. 6:10 ę Thy kingdom come. Thy desire (Greek thelema) be done in earth, as it is in heaven Ľ. So your quote isn't about the Kingdom of Heaven as you're presuming.

    Aristarkos
    Are the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Heaven 2 different things? Im sure Matthew and Luke (and Mark) swap the terms around to mean the same thing.
    "Your name and renown
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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Are the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Heaven 2 different things? Im sure Matthew and Luke (and Mark) swap the terms around to mean the same thing.
    Of course they are, but this is also denied by just about everybody, because it doesn't comply with general church teaching. I'll post it here again:

    The Kingdom of Heaven
    1. It has the Messiah as King.
    2. It is from the heavens, i.e. will be established out of the heavens by the arrival of its King from the heavens. It clasps the geographical area God promised to Abraham
    3. It is political, indirectly of origin, the ruling of a kingdom over other kingdoms and rests on justice and righteousness.
    4. It is Israeli in origin, Israel is the Central organ of world domination.
    5. It is the specific subject of the Hebrew Scriptures
    6. It is limited in duration and is still in the future; David and Solomon’s days were foreshadowing it.
    7. It was close in the Person of the King, rejected (in the Gospels), relisted after the resurrection (in Acts), again rejected but will be established in the future.


    The Kingdom of God
    1. It has God as its Ruler.
    2. It includes the heavens and earth.
    3. It is ethic (moral) immediate, spiritual of origin, rests on the ruling of Gods Spirit in His creatures, thus on love.
    4. It embraces all created beings in the heavens and on earth (angels, principalities, powers, etc.). Abraham’s spiritual seed, thus those justified by faith.
    5. It is not exclusively the subject of the Hebrew Scriptures, but stays more hidden throughout the whole Scriptures.
    6. It started with creation, embraces all aions and dispensations and will exist always.
    7. It is resisted in its revelation, but God's complacence (good pleasure) moves on luckily. God’s objective: God all in all


    Aristarkos

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Matthew 5:3: Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    Luke 6:20: And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

    Sound the same to me.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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