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Thread: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

  1. #16
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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Matthew 5:3: Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    Luke 6:20: And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

    Sound the same to me.
    If you've read my previous post with attention you have noticed that the Kingdom of God includes both heavens and earth. Therefore the Kingdom of Heaven lies within the Kingdom of God because it will be erected on earth out of the heavens. So the two quotes you've supplied meet that requirement.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Of course they are, but this is also denied by just about everybody, because it doesn't comply with general church teaching. I'll post it here again:
    There is a reason it is denied by just about everybody, and why it is general church teaching. This is because there is no actual difference in reality.

    The Kingdom of Heaven
    1. It has the Messiah as King.
    2. It is from the heavens, i.e. will be established out of the heavens by the arrival of its King from the heavens. It clasps the geographical area God promised to Abraham
    3. It is political, indirectly of origin, the ruling of a kingdom over other kingdoms and rests on justice and righteousness.
    4. It is Israeli in origin, Israel is the Central organ of world domination.
    5. It is the specific subject of the Hebrew Scriptures
    6. It is limited in duration and is still in the future; David and Solomonís days were foreshadowing it.
    7. It was close in the Person of the King, rejected (in the Gospels), relisted after the resurrection (in Acts), again rejected but will be established in the future.


    The Kingdom of God
    1. It has God as its Ruler.
    2. It includes the heavens and earth.
    3. It is ethic (moral) immediate, spiritual of origin, rests on the ruling of Gods Spirit in His creatures, thus on love.
    4. It embraces all created beings in the heavens and on earth (angels, principalities, powers, etc.). Abrahamís spiritual seed, thus those justified by faith.
    5. It is not exclusively the subject of the Hebrew Scriptures, but stays more hidden throughout the whole Scriptures.
    6. It started with creation, embraces all aions and dispensations and will exist always.
    7. It is resisted in its revelation, but God's complacence (good pleasure) moves on luckily. Godís objective: God all in all


    Aristarkos
    A nice list, but what you have really put is that the KoH is a part of sub-level of the KoG.
    Now the MK is but a part of the KoG in a certain period of time, and you could argue that the KoH is in heaven at this time and therefore is only on earth when Jesus returns to reign, and therefore the KoG being found in us is a greater thing.
    Yet what you are really saying is that every time the KoG is mentioned it could be speaking of the KoH because you differentiate it this way, according to your list.
    This means the definition is not found in scripture but in your own separation of the matter.

    Mat 21:31* Which of the two did the will of his father?Ē They said, ďThe first.Ē Jesus said to them, ďTruly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you.
    Is this speaking of the KoG as it is found on earth, thus meaning the KoH?

    Mar_9:1* And he said to them, ďTruly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.Ē
    This speaks of the KoH as well - in your defintion.

    Mar_15:43* Joseph of Arimathea, a respected member of the council, who was also himself looking for the kingdom of God, took courage and went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.
    And you say they were looking for the KoH, yet Mark states they were looking for the KoG.

    Your definition falls down when examined as it requires that any KoH reference is NOT about the KoG, and vice versa things which are specifically about the KoH shouldn't be called the KoG, yet we find they are!

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Folks seem to be saying that the kingdom arising from the rock not made by mans hands, is the Millennium. Is that what all dispensationalists are saying or only a few? I notice Clarence Larkin in one of his old diagrams seems to say that.

    So, next question please: Why does John and Jesus say, ďThe kingdom of God is at hand if in fact it was to be 2000 year away?

    What do you make of these verses...,

    Lk 17
    20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, ďThe kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21 nor will they say, ĎLook, here it is!í or, ĎThere it is!í For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.Ē

    Lk 16
    16 ďThe Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Well, I have to say concerning Luke 17:20 that its the first time Ive noticed how similar it is to Acts 1:6. So, the disciples weren't the first ones to ask when the kingdom of God was coming.

    It blows up Aristarkos' theory too, because the pharisees were looking for a visible geographical kingdom.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    How would you guys explain this?

    If King Neb and the kingdom of Babylon is the head of Gold then when did the kingdom start according to the verse below?

    Daniel 2:44
    44 ďIn the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    How would you guys explain this?

    If King Neb and the kingdom of Babylon is the head of Gold then when did the kingdom start according to the verse below?

    Daniel 2:44
    44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever
    When did God set up the Kingdom in the time of all those (4) kings?
    I think he set it up by sending the true King of kings into the whole world. His Kingdom would never be destroyed because of his victory on the cross. It would grow into a mountain as his message would reach all nations before the end of all things.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    How would you guys explain this?

    If King Neb and the kingdom of Babylon is the head of Gold then when did the kingdom start according to the verse below?

    Daniel 2:44
    44 ďIn the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever
    When did God set up the Kingdom in the time of all those (4) kings?
    I think he set it up by sending the true King of kings into the whole world. His Kingdom would never be destroyed because of his victory on the cross. It would grow into a mountain as his message would reach all nations before the end of all things.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    How would you guys explain this?

    If King Neb and the kingdom of Babylon is the head of Gold then when did the kingdom start according to the verse below?

    Daniel 2:44
    44 ďIn the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever
    When did God set up the Kingdom in the time of all those (4) kings?
    I think he set it up by sending the true King of kings into the whole world. His Kingdom would never be destroyed because of his victory on the cross. It would grow into a mountain as his message would reach all nations before the end of all things.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    How would you guys explain this?

    If King Neb and the kingdom of Babylon is the head of Gold then when did the kingdom start according to the verse below?

    Daniel 2:44
    44 ďIn the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever
    When did God set up the Kingdom in the time of all those (4) kings?
    I think he set it up by sending the true King of kings into the whole world. His Kingdom would never be destroyed because of his victory on the cross. It would grow into a mountain as his message would reach all nations before the end of all things.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  7. #22
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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Don't ask me to repeat myself lol.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    There is a reason it is denied by just about everybody, and why it is general church teaching. This is because there is no actual difference in reality.


    A nice list, but what you have really put is that the KoH is a part of sub-level of the KoG.
    Now the MK is but a part of the KoG in a certain period of time, and you could argue that the KoH is in heaven at this time and therefore is only on earth when Jesus returns to reign, and therefore the KoG being found in us is a greater thing.
    Yet what you are really saying is that every time the KoG is mentioned it could be speaking of the KoH because you differentiate it this way, according to your list.
    This means the definition is not found in scripture but in your own separation of the matter.

    Mat 21:31* Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you.
    Is this speaking of the KoG as it is found on earth, thus meaning the KoH?

    Mar_9:1* And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”
    This speaks of the KoH as well - in your defintion.

    Mar_15:43* Joseph of Arimathea, a respected member of the council, who was also himself looking for the kingdom of God, took courage and went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.
    And you say they were looking for the KoH, yet Mark states they were looking for the KoG.

    Your definition falls down when examined as it requires that any KoH reference is NOT about the KoG, and vice versa things which are specifically about the KoH shouldn't be called the KoG, yet we find they are!
    Which is only to the theology you are defending here, my definition doesn't fall down at all for those who see the difference and do not stare themselves blind on the similarities. Your quotes only confirm what I'm saying. If you would see the different groups God is preparing, you would know.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Which is only to the theology you are defending here, my definition doesn't fall down at all for those who see the difference and do not stare themselves blind on the similarities. Your quotes only confirm what I'm saying. If you would see the different groups God is preparing, you would know.

    Aristarkos
    I actually have little desire to defend any particular theology.
    I care more about what makes a difference in understanding and reality.

    Your definition as I highlighted falls down. The questions are whether there is anything said about the KoH or the KoG which CANNOT be said about the other, and if those are so stated in scripture. The other is whether anything you claimed is SPECIFICALLY about the one and NOT about the other yet is ACTUALLY stated as being about the other in scripture then makes your difference incorrect.

    You see the KoH could be a subset of the KoG for example or vice versa, or they could have an overlap.
    What you have suggested is that the KoH is a subset with some specific things. If it is a subset yet also ENTIRELY within the KoG then the KoH IS the KoG but with a reference to a particular thing.
    However your list suggests you don't have it as a subset but TWO separate but connected things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Which is only to the theology you are defending here, my definition doesn't fall down at all for those who see the difference and do not stare themselves blind on the similarities. Your quotes only confirm what I'm saying. If you would see the different groups God is preparing, you would know.

    Aristarkos
    I actually have little desire to defend any particular theology.
    I care more about what makes a difference in understanding and reality.

    Your definition as I highlighted falls down. The questions are whether there is anything said about the KoH or the KoG which CANNOT be said about the other, and if those are so stated in scripture. The other is whether anything you claimed is SPECIFICALLY about the one and NOT about the other yet is ACTUALLY stated as being about the other in scripture then makes your difference incorrect.

    You see the KoH could be a subset of the KoG for example or vice versa, or they could have an overlap.
    What you have suggested is that the KoH is a subset with some specific things. If it is a subset yet also ENTIRELY within the KoG then the KoH IS the KoG but with a reference to a particular thing.
    However your list suggests you don't have it as a subset but TWO separate but connected things.

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    How would you guys explain this?

    If King Neb and the kingdom of Babylon is the head of Gold then when did the kingdom start according to the verse below?

    Daniel 2:44
    44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever
    The time of those kings is referring SPECIFICALLY to the Kings of the Toe kings:
    Dan 2:42* And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.
    Dan 2:43* As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.*

    It is NOT referring to the time of Nebuchadnezzar.
    The Toe Kings has yet to happen.
    The Caliphate was the Feet Kingdom.

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The time of those kings is referring SPECIFICALLY to the Kings of the Toe kings:
    Dan 2:42* And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.
    Dan 2:43* As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.*

    It is NOT referring to the time of Nebuchadnezzar.
    The Toe Kings has yet to happen.
    The Caliphate was the Feet Kingdom.
    If so then how does the rock also destroy the gold, silver and bronze?

    Daniel 2:35
    35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

    Daniel 2:45
    45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.

    “The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

    How does Jesus kingdom destroy kingdoms which were around hundreds of years before He came?

    It must of been on the earth before the first advent

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    Re: What is the Dispensational Interpretation of Danielís Stone Kingdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    If so then how does the rock also destroy the gold, silver and bronze?

    Daniel 2:35
    35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

    Daniel 2:45
    45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.

    “The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

    How does Jesus kingdom destroy kingdoms which were around hundreds of years before He came?

    It must of been on the earth before the first advent
    Nope.
    The point is that he Rock does NOT strike the Head of Gold nor the Body and Arms of Silver, nor any other part of the Statute - ONLY the Feet are struck as that is the ONLY Kingdom around at the time.

    However when we understand what the Statue (image) represents, then we can understand how the destruction of the one is the destruction of them all.
    The first clue is found here:
    Dan 2:38* and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them all—you are the head of gold.

    Now notice how this fits with another statement of scripture:
    Gen 1:28* And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

    In this verse Daniel notes that not only is their the original dominion over the earth etc, but now is the additional rule of Man over Man. This is stated by God through Daniel.
    This statue then represents Man ruling over Man through time as seen in these kingdoms which have a direct impact over the Children of God (Adam was the Son of God and Israel who are the fulfillment of the promised Children of God).
    This dominion of Man is what will be broken by Jesus when He comes to reign. Therefore ALL forms of government of Man by Man will be destroyed by this Rock when He rules with a Rod of Iron smashing such governments down:
    Psa 2:8* Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession.*
    Psa 2:9* You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.”*

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