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Thread: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

  1. #331

    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Methinks the New Covenant was ratified by the shed blood of Christ. He died, was dead for three days and three nights, and was then quickened by the Spirit.

    Relative to the New Covenant: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: from Heb 8:10

    What laws are these? How do each of you measure up?

    Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, Mark 1:14 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50

    The New Covenant in my blood. ?Death?

    I would like to address a couple things I think maybe relevant.

    God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; Heb 1:1,2 NKJV
    Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He (Son from 1:2?)Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, Heb 2:14

    Was it the little baby, who was born of the virgin, Mary, that God appointed, "heir." of all things? Could this flesh and blood baby inherit the kingdom of God he came preaching about about thirty years after being born?

    When did Son inherit the kingdom of God?

    Methinks the New Covenant was ratified by the shed blood of Christ. He died, was dead for three days and three nights, and was then quickened by the Spirit.

    Relative to the New Covenant: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: from Heb 8:10

    What laws are these? How do each of you measure up?

    Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, Mark 1:14 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50

    The New Covenant in my blood. ?Death?

    I would like to address a couple things I think maybe relevant.

    God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; Heb 1:1,2 NKJV
    Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He (Son from 1:2?)Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, Heb 2:14

    Was it the little baby, who was born of the virgin, Mary, that God appointed, "heir." of all things? Could this flesh and blood baby inherit the kingdom of God he came preaching about about thirty years after being born?

    When did Son inherit the kingdom of God?

  2. #332
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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Correct which also means Jesus lived in the OT times...the last years of the OT.
    Thank you! I've wanted to receive confirmation from many on this forum. You may be the 1st one to actually state it. I appreciate it very much!

    I know that everybody here knows it. But many just don't seem to be able to say it. You may disagree with me, but some things Jesus said during his earthly ministry was pure OT, and does not apply in the NT. For example, the OT tithe does not apply in the NT. But I've raised that issue elsewhere.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Thank you! I've wanted to receive confirmation from many on this forum. You may be the 1st one to actually state it. I appreciate it very much!
    I've been debating it in this very thread. Iot's a simple thing but seems impossible for some to accept.

    I know that everybody here knows it. But many just don't seem to be able to say it. You may disagree with me, but some things Jesus said during his earthly ministry was pure OT, and does not apply in the NT. For example, the OT tithe does not apply in the NT. But I've raised that issue elsewhere.
    I very much agree some things He said applied only under the OT...what I argued about what was needed for eternal life under the OT according to Christ is a perfect example.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  4. #334
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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Here is a cross reference to John 6:45 from eSword:

    The line they referenced in "And they" is here: "And they shall be all taught of God."
    Can you explain what you're getting at here?

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    Cool Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Can you explain what you're getting at here?
    I was asked why I chose those scriptures. It was suggested it was random. I just showed them the OT cross references to John 6:45 and the phrase "And they shall be all taught of God."
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I would say nothing could be more absurd in view of Christian theology, which states that we are in the NT era *now.* If Christ applied to us at the Cross, then he still applies to us today. The New Covenant is in reality the application of Christ to us as righteousness and atonement, and that will last forever. It can *never* be suspended.
    Thank you.

    I hope Brother Walls and Deade will take note.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    It's the general consensus. Not that that means anything really. Would it be strange for prophets other than Jeremiah to speak of God indwelling man?
    It is not so much a mystery that Jeremiah did not mention the Gentiles in his prophecy of the New Covenant for the simple reason that God reveals his plans on a need-to-know-basis. It is the same reason the OT scriptures didn't scream out loud that Gentiles will also worship Israel's Monotheistic God.

    But in due season, Paul in Ephesians 2 expounded how through the death of Christ, Gentiles who hitherto were aliens and strangers, separated from the "covenants of promise" have now been made nigh v-12. Paul further explained that with his blood, Jesus broke down the middle wall of partition between the Jew and Gentile, thus making us ONE (spiritually speaking) v-14. There is further corroboration in Gal 3:27-28.

    Of course, this is a hard saying for those who continue to argue that the new covenant is the exclusive remit of Israel. As ludicrous as it sounds, some even claim that the new covenant will come into place when Israel inherits the land promised to them.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    It's the general consensus. Not that that means anything really. Would it be strange for prophets other than Jeremiah to speak of God indwelling man?
    Of course not. Matter of fact, I think other prophets did also.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Thanks brother! I would go further to say that the time is well past when it may be said that Israel is God's "chosen people." From the beginning God planned to *begin with Israel,* because His original intention was to reach *the whole world.*

    The Gentile Church is *not* a parenthesis in God's plan with Israel. That is a part of Dispensationalism that is a sick animal.

    I'm not downplaying the importance of Israel's fulfillment as a future Christian nation. I'm just saying that God isn't playing favorites. God loves all nations equally. If God began with Israel, then Israel will be the last nation to become Christian--at least in the present age.

    Why don't we just accept that today "chosen nations" are those nations who embrace Christ for their people? Whether or not we like this explanation I find it imperative that we elevate the whole Church where it belongs. And that's alongside God's Son.
    Righto! Unfortunately, many still hold on to the false doctrine that God is partial in his love for the faithful.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    I was asked why I chose those scriptures. It was suggested it was random. I just showed them the OT cross references to John 6:45 and the phrase "And they shall be all taught of God."
    Oh, so you went to quote Trivalee post 323 not me.

    EDIT:Oh, so you meant to quote Trivalee post 323 not me.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Weird. Since we can't edit I made another post with

    "EDIT:Oh, so you meant to quote Trivalee post 323 not me."

    and it edited the previous post.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    Methinks the New Covenant was ratified by the shed blood of Christ. He died, was dead for three days and three nights, and was then quickened by the Spirit.

    Relative to the New Covenant: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: from Heb 8:10

    What laws are these? How do each of you measure up?

    Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, Mark 1:14 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50

    The New Covenant in my blood. ?Death?

    I would like to address a couple things I think maybe relevant.

    God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; Heb 1:1,2 NKJV
    Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He (Son from 1:2?)Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, Heb 2:14

    Was it the little baby, who was born of the virgin, Mary, that God appointed, "heir." of all things? Could this flesh and blood baby inherit the kingdom of God he came preaching about about thirty years after being born?

    When did Son inherit the kingdom of God?

    Methinks the New Covenant was ratified by the shed blood of Christ. He died, was dead for three days and three nights, and was then quickened by the Spirit.

    Relative to the New Covenant: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: from Heb 8:10

    What laws are these? How do each of you measure up?

    Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, Mark 1:14 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50

    The New Covenant in my blood. ?Death?

    I would like to address a couple things I think maybe relevant.

    God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; Heb 1:1,2 NKJV
    Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He (Son from 1:2?)Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, Heb 2:14

    Was it the little baby, who was born of the virgin, Mary, that God appointed, "heir." of all things? Could this flesh and blood baby inherit the kingdom of God he came preaching about about thirty years after being born?

    When did Son inherit the kingdom of God?
    How did God write his "laws" in the hearts and minds of believers?

    When Israel failed to uphold their own part of the old covenant, God through Jeremiah 31:31-34 said he will introduce a New Covenant. But unlike the former, this one will be different! Instead of engravement on stone, it will be written in the hearts and mind of God's people.

    To understand how this was fulfilled, Paul said in Rom 13:8-10

    8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For: Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not bear false witness; do not lust; and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. 10 Love works no ill to its neighbour, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    Jesus said he came to fulfil the Law and he became our eternal High Priest before God, thus replacing the services of the Levitical priests. The Spirit of Christ in our hearts cries Abba, Father (Rom 8:15). This indwelling Spirit in the heart of the faithful (the spirit of discernment 1 Cor 2:14; Job 32:8) continues to reveal the knowledge of God to believers. Speaking of the NC, Jeremiah also said: "and they shall no more teach every man his neighbour or his brother".

    How is this fulfilled? The scriptures say that those in Christ do not judge by sight, but by the spirit. IOW, our indwelling Spirit reveals the true believer from the charlatan.

    Since God cannot lie, the New Covenant was as prophecied ratified between Jesus and Israel and Judah [the disciples] on the Day of Pentecost when God sent the Holy Ghost. But in accordance with Israel's blindness as well as those Gentile believers who claim the new covenant is still in the future, they fail to realise that God has already remembered "the House of Israel and Judah" as prophesied by Jeremiah.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Weird. Since we can't edit I made another post with

    "EDIT:Oh, so you meant to quote Trivalee post 323 not me."

    and it edited the previous post.
    You are not the only one struggling with this problem.

  14. #344
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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fNWTZZwgbs

    Just thought this would be a good resource, many people in this debate want to ignore the necessity of the OT when understanding the book of Hebrews, mainly because this understanding makes there positions illogical.




    Note whats stated about the people's knowledge of the OT, and consider the knowledge of the people who are claiming to teach doctrine out of this book, do they have a thorough knowledge of the OT? Is there doctrine in line with the OT? Are we now in the promised land or the (New Creation). Decide for yourselves.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ferLIsvlmI


    Also, another great video here we see can see the contrast between the positions presented in this thread, Trivalee(and the covenant now crowd) believe Jesus gathering people is the New Covenant. The covenant later people, see Jesus gathering people now who in the future will live in this New Creation (which is ruled under the New Covenant).

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fNW...5Y_XQ&index=89




    Just thought this would be a good resource, many people in this debate want to ignore the necessity of the OT when understanding the book of Hebrews, mainly because this understanding makes there positions illogical.


    Note whats stated about the people's knowledge of the OT, and consider the knowledge of the people who are claiming to teach doctrine out of this book, do they have a thorough knowledge of the OT? Is there doctrine in line with the OT? Are we now in the promised land or the (New Creation). Decide for yourselves.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ferLIsvlmI

    Also, another great video here we see can see the contrast between the positions presented in this thread, Trivalee(and the covenant now crowd) believe Jesus gathering people is the New Covenant. The covenant later people, see Jesus gathering people now who in the future will live in this New Creation (which is ruled under the New Covenant).
    The first link is not working but the second provided sufficient support for my argument that not only is the new covenant operative now, it is also for the Jew and Gentile who believe. If you say the video posits that the new covenant is exclusive to Israel, then you must be referring to another video - but definitely not the one in the link you provided.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fNW...5Y_XQ&index=89




    Just thought this would be a good resource, many people in this debate want to ignore the necessity of the OT when understanding the book of Hebrews, mainly because this understanding makes there positions illogical.


    Note whats stated about the people's knowledge of the OT, and consider the knowledge of the people who are claiming to teach doctrine out of this book, do they have a thorough knowledge of the OT? Is there doctrine in line with the OT? Are we now in the promised land or the (New Creation). Decide for yourselves.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ferLIsvlmI

    Also, another great video here we see can see the contrast between the positions presented in this thread, Trivalee(and the covenant now crowd) believe Jesus gathering people is the New Covenant. The covenant later people, see Jesus gathering people now who in the future will live in this New Creation (which is ruled under the New Covenant).
    The first link is not working but the second provided sufficient support for my argument that not only is the new covenant operative now, it is also for the Jew and Gentile who believe. If you say the video posits that the new covenant is exclusive to Israel, then you must be referring to another video - but definitely not the one in the link you provided.

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