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Thread: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

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    Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    This was an ongoing discussion but was unfortunately deleted during the recent glitch, hence my quest to reignite the discourse. Jeremiah 31:31-35 had prophesied that a new covenant will replace the old and this was fulfilled by Jesus death on the cross (Heb 10:20). Further support can also be found in numerous passages in Hebrews.

    Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    There are, however, those who hold contrary views; these handfuls argue that the new covenant will come into effect when Jesus returns.

    What's your thought on the subject?

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    This was an ongoing discussion but was unfortunately deleted during the recent glitch, hence my quest to reignite the discourse. Jeremiah 31:31-35 had prophesied that a new covenant will replace the old and this was fulfilled by Jesus death on the cross (Heb 10:20). Further support can also be found in numerous passages in Hebrews.

    Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    There are, however, those who hold contrary views; these handfuls argue that the new covenant will come into effect when Jesus returns.

    What's your thought on the subject?
    *[[Heb 9:15]] KJV* And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    From this verse you have claimed that the "eternal inheritance " refers to salvation. If that were true, then you must explain how Christ only died for the "transgressions committed under the first testament" OR how the old testament applies to everyone, aka everyone was under the law of Moses. If you can't, then your understanding of "eternal inheritance " is not what you think.
    *[[Gal 3:29]] YLT* and if ye are of Christ then of Abraham ye are seed, and according to promise--heirs.

    Hopefully you can see that there is an inheritance waiting for those who are (currently) in Christ and that this inheritance is based on the promise made to Abraham.

    *[[Heb 11:8]] KJV* By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.*[

    9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the HEIRS (after the births of Isaac and Jacob) with him of the same promise:
    10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    Abraham was still viewed as an heir of the promise, even after Isaac and Jacob were born.

    *[[Act 7:5]] KJV* And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to HIS SEED after him, when as yet he had no child.

    Christ is the one who is the seed of Abraham to whom the promise was made and we are joint heirs with Christ. Because we, are to be joint HEIRS with Christ, he too, sits in the position of the heir of the promise made to Abraham. Unless you are prepared to show us that God's promise to Abraham was simply eternal life, exclusive of land, then you have another hurdle to jump. With that said, i give you this scripture:

    *[[Act 7:5]] KJV* And he gave him [Abraham] none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

    The promise is the promised kingdom of God, that was dedicated by the shedding of Christ's blood:

    *[[Mat 26:28]] KJV* For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
    29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

    *[[Mar 14:24]] KJV* And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
    25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

    Blessings
    The PuP

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    *[[Heb 9:15]] KJV* And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    From this verse you have claimed that the "eternal inheritance " refers to salvation. If that were true, then you must explain how Christ only died for the "transgressions committed under the first testament" OR how the old testament applies to everyone, aka everyone was under the law of Moses. If you can't, then your understanding of "eternal inheritance " is not what you think.
    *[[Gal 3:29]] YLT* and if ye are of Christ then of Abraham ye are seed, and according to promise--heirs.

    Hopefully you can see that there is an inheritance waiting for those who are (currently) in Christ and that this inheritance is based on the promise made to Abraham.

    *[[Heb 11:8]] KJV* By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.*[

    9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the HEIRS (after the births of Isaac and Jacob) with him of the same promise:
    10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    Abraham was still viewed as an heir of the promise, even after Isaac and Jacob were born.

    *[[Act 7:5]] KJV* And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to HIS SEED after him, when as yet he had no child.

    Christ is the one who is the seed of Abraham to whom the promise was made and we are joint heirs with Christ. Because we, are to be joint HEIRS with Christ, he too, sits in the position of the heir of the promise made to Abraham. Unless you are prepared to show us that God's promise to Abraham was simply eternal life, exclusive of land, then you have another hurdle to jump. With that said, i give you this scripture:

    *[[Act 7:5]] KJV* And he gave him [Abraham] none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

    The promise is the promised kingdom of God, that was dedicated by the shedding of Christ's blood:

    *[[Mat 26:28]] KJV* For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
    29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

    *[[Mar 14:24]] KJV* And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
    25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

    Blessings
    The PuP
    1. For a start, your statement in RED above is proof that you misunderstood what Heb 9:15 says. Jesus died to open the way for us for eternal life. Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    Transgressions refer to the inability of the unremitting animal sacrifice under the first covenant to atone for sin. The passage is telling us that by his death, Jesus substituted animals with his own flesh as the sacrifice. See verses 25-26.

    2. Yes, there is an inheritance awaiting the faitful when the Lord returns. But it is not the new covenant which is already operative, but the redemption of the promised *eternal life*.

    3. Again, your understanding of the Promise made to Abraham is sadly misguided. You seem to pin the new covenant with the land promise made to Abraham and Israel. But Jeremiah's prophecy ch 31:31-35 says nothing about land. Perhaps, you should read Jeremiah 31 again?

    4. Here is the relevant passage pertaining to the promise to Abraham that faithful Gentiles partake of.

    Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
    Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    This was an ongoing discussion but was unfortunately deleted during the recent glitch, hence my quest to reignite the discourse. Jeremiah 31:31-35 had prophesied that a new covenant will replace the old and this was fulfilled by Jesus death on the cross (Heb 10:20). Further support can also be found in numerous passages in Hebrews.

    Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    There are, however, those who hold contrary views; these handfuls argue that the new covenant will come into effect when Jesus returns.

    What's your thought on the subject?
    The answer to your question hangs on THREE things;
    1. In WHAT "DAY" will God make a New Covenant with Israel and Judah?
    2. When will the House of Israel and the House of Judah be in a position to receive the New Covenant?
    3. Is the Old Covenant of Law still in force?

    -------------------------
    1. The "DAY" in which the Covenant is made is the "DAY" when both Houses are UNITED. In Jeremiah 31 the northern Tribes, called the House of Israel, which were carried off by Assyria, and the southern Tribes, which were carried off by Babylon, are given the New Covenant. But verse 33 establishes them as ONE HOUSE of Israel in regard to the New Covenant. That is, the "DAY" is the day when Israel is resurrected and gathered from the diaspora back to their Land to be ONE NATION again. See also Ezekiel 37:11 and 39:25 where it is "the WHOLE House of Israel".
    2. The TWO Houses will only be able to receive the new Covenant when (i) the Temple is built - for it is an integral part of God's Law, and (ii) they are ALL back in their Land - for going down to Jerusalem thrice a year to feast is an integral part of God's Law
    3. The curses of the Law are recorded mostly in Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28. Israel is still under these curses today - a sure sign that the Old Covenant is still in force. Israel is largely still in dispersion and does not have a seed of David on its throne. It is dictated to by Gentile forces and Jerusalem is still trampled under Gentile feet. Israel are still breaking the Law today, so the New Covenant could not be in force yet

    It is more than apparent that the introduction of the New Covenant must wait at least until the Lord returns and sends His angels to gather all Israel from the "four winds" (Matt.24:31 - only Israel was scattered to the four winds, not the Church).

    ▶︎ That our Lord has already ratified the Covenant with His blood does not mean that it is in force. Moses ratified the Old Covenant at Sinai, but some Laws were for the king of Israel, which only came some 500 years later. In one of the Laws, Deuteronomy 18:18, Moses commanded that he was to be discarded when Jesus came and Israel was only "to hear" Jesus. That came 1,500 years later.

    ▶︎ That our Lord is Mediator of the New Covenant does not mean that it is in force. It only means that when it is negotiated, He will mediate the Contract. The Holy Spirit in us Christians is the guarantee that we will be resurrected (Eph.1:14). This does not mean that we have been resurrected. 1st Corinthians 15:45, in context of resurrection, says that our Lord Jesus is "become the life-giving Spirit". But we are yet to be resurrected.

    • The RATIFICATION of the new Covenant was completed on Golgotha. From then on Christ's blood, among other things, is called "the blood of the new Covenant" to declare hope to Israel in her chastisement.
    • The INSTITUTION of the New Covenant is when the TWO houses of Israel and Judah are united and in their Land
    • The PLAIN LANGUAGE of Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 says that this New Covenant is a Covenant ONLY with Israel
    • The PLAIN LANGUAGE of Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 says that this New Covenant is a Covenant OF LAW
    • The PLAIN LANGUAGE of Ephesians 3:5 and 9 says that the Church was not revealed to Jeremiah (which Hebrews quotes)
    • The CHURCH was never under the Old Covenant
    • The Church was never under LAW. If it sets itself under Law "Christ has become of none effect to them" (Gal.5:4)
    • The Church does not have Israel's FATHERS who came out of Egypt. It has God as its Father (Jn.1:12-13)
    • The PLAIN LANGUAGE of Hebrews 8:13 says that, "... the old (Covenant) ... which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away" IN THE PRESENT CONTINUOUS TENSE. This is some 37 years after Golgotha.

    There is not a SINGLE PROOF that the new Covenant has been instituted as we discuss.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    1. For a start, your statement in RED above is proof that you misunderstood what Heb 9:15 says. Jesus died to open the way for us for eternal life. Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    Transgressions refer to the inability of the unremitting animal sacrifice under the first covenant to atone for sin. The passage is telling us that by his death, Jesus substituted animals with his own flesh as the sacrifice. See verses 25-26.

    2. Yes, there is an inheritance awaiting the faitful when the Lord returns. But it is not the new covenant which is already operative, but the redemption of the promised *eternal life*.

    3. Again, your understanding of the Promise made to Abraham is sadly misguided. You seem to pin the new covenant with the land promise made to Abraham and Israel. But Jeremiah's prophecy ch 31:31-35 says nothing about land. Perhaps, you should read Jeremiah 31 again?

    4. Here is the relevant passage pertaining to the promise to Abraham that faithful Gentiles partake of.

    Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
    Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
    I haven't even attempted to explain HEB 9:15, and yet you insist that I don't understand it. Sin is defined here:

    *[[1Jn 3:4]] KJV* Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    To simplify even further, transgression is the breaking of God's laws. The first covenant was all about defining God's laws, i.e. defining transgressions.

    But you are wrong about the efficacy the blood of bulls and goats:

    *[[Heb 9:13]] KJV* For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

    What their blood could not do was purge the conscience from sin TO SERVE THE LIVING GOD:

    *[[Heb 9:14]] KJV* How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    Concerning question 3, what was the result (even before Christ came) of Israel breaking their covenant? They were evicted from the land. The punishment for braking the covenant are contained in the curses of the law. Likewise, the blessings for keeping the covenant was to remain upon the land. Here is a snippet of verses from Deut 30. I would suggest reading up on the blessings and curses of the Mosaic covenant.

    *[[Deu 30:1]] KJV* And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,...

    *[[Deu 30:18]] KJV* I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
    I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
    That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

    The new covenant is about them dwelling in the land forever and ever.

    *[[Jer 31:28]] KJV* And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD...

    *[[Jer 31:38]] KJV* Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
    And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
    And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

    Blessings
    The PuP

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    There is not a SINGLE PROOF that the new Covenant has been instituted as we discuss.
    Are you saying that Israel is in between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant? The Old Covenant has been made obsolete, but the New Covenant has not yet been instituted? Where does that leave the Church?
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Are you saying that Israel is in between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant? The Old Covenant has been made obsolete, but the New Covenant has not yet been instituted? Where does that leave the Church?
    Outside of the covenants of course, they were never made with the Gentiles. The Gentiles just appropriated them and this is repeated for so long, now everybody beliefs this is the truth. There is however not a single Scripture that says this. The only letter Paul talks about the new covenant is Hebrews, i.e. Jews.

    Just see what he says of ę covenant Ľ without new in his other letters:

    Rom. 11:27 ę For this is my covenant unto them (Israel see v. 26), when I shall take away their (Israel) sins Ľ. Israel is not done away with at all, God has until today never took their sins away.

    Gal. 3:17 ę And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect Ľ

    And then 12 times in Hebrews. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and he says it is for Israel, not for the Church of God, which BTW doesn't exist in this dispensation, now it is only grace. That's why God allows people to believe as they please. Some believe they are somewhere in the Revelation, some are not, others are under the New Covenant, others took the place of Israel, others believe Christ has after the Cross accepted all power (which is not true to Heb. 2:8 ę But now we see not yet all things put under him Ľ etc.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    I have heard a lot of conflicting views by others on this topic. This is an interesting topic though!
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Are you saying that Israel is in between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant? The Old Covenant has been made obsolete, but the New Covenant has not yet been instituted? Where does that leave the Church?
    In my posting #4 I wrote;
    In the second paragraph point #3:

    "The curses of the Law are recorded mostly in Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28. Israel is still under these curses today - a sure sign that the Old Covenant is still in force. Israel is largely still in dispersion and does not have a seed of David on its throne. It is dictated to by Gentile forces and Jerusalem is still trampled under Gentile feet. Israel are still breaking the Law today, so the New Covenant could not be in force yet"

    In the second to last paragraph, last point:

    The PLAIN LANGUAGE of Hebrews 8:13 says that, "... the old (Covenant) ... which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away" IN THE PRESENT CONTINUOUS TENSE. This is some 37 years after Golgotha.

    These should answer your first question. The Covenant of Sinai is still in force. Remember, a Covenant or Contract has two sides. (i) Rewards if the Contract is kept, and (ii) penalties if the Contract is broken. If we see before our eyes that the penalties of Sinai are still in full force, it is obvious that the Contract is still being upheld.

    The Church is altogether out of the picture. The Church was never under the Covenant of Sinai, was never under Law, was not revealed to Jeremiah, and is not included in the New Covenant. The only Covenants that the Church is part of is that to Noah in Genesis 9, for it is made with "all flesh" (v.17), and that of Abraham because we are IN Christ and He is Seed of Abraham (Gal.3:29).

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    I have heard a lot of conflicting views by others on this topic. This is an interesting topic though!
    Here is the cause of the conflict. By the time John wrote Revelation in about 95 AD, you can see that the Churches were already apostate. All manner of "leaven" had crept in. By 313 AD, when the Roman Emperor, Constantine, declared Christianity a State religion, the seeds sown in Pergamum, that of having the Nicolaitans in the Church bloomed. The Greek word "Nicolaitans" is made of two words: "Nico" - the defeater, or the "vanquisher", and "Laity" - the common man. In today's terms it would be "Clergy-Laity System". The Roman Catholic Church withdrew the Bible, and made it law that only those authorized by the Church could possess and study the Bible. Because the Roman Empire was intent of ruling the world, and the Holy Roman Empire, as it was called after Constantine, followed this doctrine of "Kingdom Now", the following had to be taught;
    • Israel was gone and would never be recovered
    • The Church replaced Israel as God's people
    • All prophecies directed at Israel were to be fulfilled by the Church
    • All promises and blessings directed at Israel belonged to the Church
    • All the Covenants now applied to the Church

    So it was a prevailing doctrine for about 1,000 years that the Church was under the New Covenant DESPITE the clear wording of Jeremiah 31:31. And when the Reformation took place, the main antagonists were so busy fighting about FAITH as the way to salvation, that other crucial doctrines where largely left untouched. It was only hundreds of years later that men said; "If the Roman Church was wrong about salvation by faith, let us start with a clean sheet and examine the Bible minutely again." And among many crucial doctrines that we embrace today, Israel's restoration is one of them. That means that ALL the prophecies and promises of the Old Testament Prophets are - AS THEY SAY - aimed at Israel. Ephesians 3:5 and 9, and other scriptures like Luke 10:24, Romans 16:25 and 2nd Timothy 1:9-11 plainly tell us that the Church was not revealed until our Lord revealed it in Matthew 16. So all the scriptures that predict that Israel receives a NEW and BETTER Covenant COULD NOT POSSIBLY APPLY TO THE CHURCH.

    That which is promised to Israel is Israel's, and the Church has nothing to do with it. The only single connection that the Church has to the New Covenant is that some Christians, like the 12 Apostles, will rule Israel after Israel's restoration (Matt.19:28, Lk.22:30), and Israel being under the New Covenant of Law, the Apostle will have to be an "Administrator" (lit. Gk.) of the Law (2nd Cor.3:6). That is, Peter, in the Millennium, when Israel is restored, will rule a Tribe. While he himself is not subject to the New Covenant, he will be ruling over Jews who are. So he must be an "administrator" of the New Covenant.

    The bottom line is:
    • The First Covenant of Law was made exclusively with Israel - those who came out of Egypt
    • The First Covenant of Law, because it was thoroughly broken, has led to Israel's present plight
    • The First Covenant of Law is in the process of waxing old and passing but is not yet abolished FOR ISRAEL
    • The First Covenant of Law is forbidden to the Church. The consequences are dire (Gal.5:4)
    • The New Covenant of Law is made EXCLUSIVELY with Israel after they are raised, gathered, restored and combined in their Land again
    • The New Covenant of Law has NOTHING to do with the Church

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    It seems that this fact is left out of the equation, the law of Faith:

    Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
    Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
    Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
    Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
    Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    It also seems the fact that Godís Word is Lord and is His covenant, that He keeps, or fulfills if you will. Should the Lord God give you His Word, then He agrees to do what it is He said. Being righteous He should be believed and trusted, which is His right, to be believed and trusted. So anytime God speaks about any action in relationship to whom or what He is speaking to, itís a covenant.

    In the case of Adam and Eve He had an agreement its ok to eat of all of these trees except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil or you die, that day mind you. So, who did they trust and believe when confronted with the serpents take on what the Lord God said? The woman trusted the serpent and not the Word of God through her husband, and as God said Adam listened to her, and not the Word of God.
    Therefore, the law of faith, which incidentally all creatures experience. If a rabbit makes the wrong move stops in the wrong place, he becomes groceries for some predator, due to what he trusted.

    So, the sons of man through the first man are condemned to death in separation from their Maker, because of what Adam trusted, hence placed his faith in. so by the same is man able to receive salvation and restoration to the Life first given A&E before they died of it that day. And to establish that, who was the man who found Grace in Godís sight ten generations after Adam, Noah wasnít it? And he is where grace is first mentioned in scripture. And who is the man of faith ten generations after Noah? Wasnít it Abraham?
    And both had received covenants. Take note the sons of Adam are born into sin, therefore since that is true then it is also true that the sons of Noah may find Grace in Godís sight though they are still born into sin. (note everyone now is a child of Noah) the sons of Abraham through the chosen Isaac and Jacob are under the covenant of faith. Faith is the law everything God bases His relationship with mankind with.

    So, all covenants are in effect, itís just that all covenants before Jesus are fulfilled in Jesus for our sakes, because we canít whether ye be Jew or Gentile, that we may receive the Peace of God in His Presence. Just as Paul says ďDo we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.Ē

    Israel was and still is in service to its Lord, God, even if itís in rebellion, and for that special service they get benefits. Simple. But salvation is to all that are faithful which is through Jesus Christ the everlasting covenant that note, is the fulfillment of every covenant God made with man.

    Guys like Abraham trusted the Lord his God for the fulfillment of promises and is saved via Jesus Christ for that trust in the Lord his God. Godís Word is always an everlasting covenant. For example, a man seeks to build a house he makes a contract (covenant) with a builder to build the house when the house is complete according to the contract and to the satisfaction of the man who sot to build it, then the builder is no longer obligated to build the house is he? But he still receives according to the contract for his service.


    and the coming of Christ was first mentioned :


    Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    and all things related to salvation and restoration of what was lost scripturally starts there. everything else fallowing is simply revelation of Word and fulfillment thereof.
    Let there be Light

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Just for information, if somebody answered me I cannot see it. Our site has posted a "quote wrap" over the whole thread. I cannot see a thing. Sorry guys.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Just for information, if somebody answered me I cannot see it. Our site has posted a "quote wrap" over the whole thread. I cannot see a thing. Sorry guys.
    Same here and I was redirected immediately to advanced editing.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    I haven't even attempted to explain HEB 9:15, and yet you insist that I don't understand it. Sin is defined here:

    *[[1Jn 3:4]] KJV* Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    To simplify even further, transgression is the breaking of God's laws. The first covenant was all about defining God's laws, i.e. defining transgressions.

    But you are wrong about the efficacy the blood of bulls and goats:

    *[[Heb 9:13]] KJV* For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

    What their blood could not do was purge the conscience from sin TO SERVE THE LIVING GOD:

    *[[Heb 9:14]] KJV* How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    Concerning question 3, what was the result (even before Christ came) of Israel breaking their covenant? They were evicted from the land. The punishment for braking the covenant are contained in the curses of the law. Likewise, the blessings for keeping the covenant was to remain upon the land. Here is a snippet of verses from Deut 30. I would suggest reading up on the blessings and curses of the Mosaic covenant.

    *[[Deu 30:1]] KJV* And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,...

    *[[Deu 30:18]] KJV* I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
    I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
    That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

    The new covenant is about them dwelling in the land forever and ever.

    *[[Jer 31:28]] KJV* And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD...

    *[[Jer 31:38]] KJV* Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
    And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
    And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

    Blessings
    The PuP
    The way to write makes it difficult to respond.
    If 'transgression' in your book denotes the breaking of God's law - that according to the Bible is SIN. And that is my position also.

    I'm not sure of what you're disagreeing about regarding the ineffectiveness of the sacrifice of animals for the atonement of sin? The scriptures you quoted show that because of its deficiency, the New Covenant in the blood of Christ had to replace it.

    It is a gross error to pin the new covenant to Israel being gathered to dwell in the land. Rather it is for the forgiveness of sin (Heb 10:14-17).

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Brother Walls: I responded to your post but there's a wrap over it. I've tried to remove it but couldn't...

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