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Thread: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

  1. #676

    Cool Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    I'm confused what you're saying here, what exactly am I accounting for here?
    I pointed out in Isaiah 65:17 with the introduction of the NHNE. Isa. 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Then in verse 20, they talk about the sinner and child dying a hundred years old. That seems to run aground your thinking about the time frame of the NHNE.
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    I pointed out in Isaiah 65:17 with the introduction of the NHNE. Isa. 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Then in verse 20, they talk about the sinner and child dying a hundred years old. That seems to run aground your thinking about the time frame of the NHNE.
    Yet in Rev 21, everyone alive are immortal and sinners are in the LOF so no one is mortal and dying at any age let alone 100...I'm sure it's just a figure of speech not literally a baby dying at 100 and that's good, but it's bad for a sinner to die at 100.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    I pointed out in Isaiah 65:17 with the introduction of the NHNE. Isa. 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Then in verse 20, they talk about the sinner and child dying a hundred years old. That seems to run aground your thinking about the time frame of the NHNE.
    Yet in Rev 21, everyone alive are immortal and sinners are in the LOF so no one is mortal and dying at any age let alone 100...I'm sure it's just a figure of speech not literally a baby dying at 100 and that's good, but it's bad for a sinner to die at 100.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    I pointed out in Isaiah 65:17 with the introduction of the NHNE. Isa. 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Then in verse 20, they talk about the sinner and child dying a hundred years old. That seems to run aground your thinking about the time frame of the NHNE.
    What does it do for "shall be no more death"?

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    I pointed out in Isaiah 65:17 with the introduction of the NHNE. Isa. 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Then in verse 20, they talk about the sinner and child dying a hundred years old. That seems to run aground your thinking about the time frame of the NHNE.
    I didn't quote my opinions on the passages, what I said was exactly what was stated, I gave the references. If you believe there is a contradiction, thats understandable if you want me to share how I personally rationalize it I will. However I don't think you should leave out verses 18-19 which point out that this Passage is speaking specifically of Jerusalem.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Have all the nations of the earth been blessed?
    Has the gospel of the kingdom been preached in all of the world, the nations?

    Verse list:
    Gen 17:7-8 KJV And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

    The Blessing of Abraham is found in these two passages:

    Gal 3:14-18 KJV That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

    And the Blessing is directly tied to when the time comes to INHERIT the land:

    Gen 28:4 KJV And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; THAT THOU MAYEST INHERIT the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.
    Mat 24:14 KJV And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    Just like as we spiritually enter the (spirotual)KOH/KOG, the time to inherit the physical kingdom of God remains to be a future event:

    Verse list:
    1Co 15:50-53 KJV Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

    Verse list:
    Luk 22:18-20 KJV For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

    We abide in the kingdom of heaven that Jesus left until us, and await for Jesus to bring the kingdom of God at his appearing.

    Luk 22:29-30 KJV And I appoint unto you a kingdom (OF HEAVEN!), as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    *[[2Ti 4:1]] KJV* I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and HIS KINGDOM;

    Blessings
    The PuP

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    Has the gospel of the kingdom been preached in all of the world, the nations?
    Depends on how you define nations.

    If the NC wasn't in effect no one would be experiencing a lick of it, but we do, so.....
    I can't be anymore forgiven that I am right now, and that is because of the blood of the covenant shed for the forgiveness of my sins. It's a no-brainer. Waiting for every aspect to come to pass is just silly.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    We ENTER the here & now spiritual kingdom of heaven/ kingdom of God. But only the physical kingdom of God can be inherited:

    Verse list:
    Mat 25:31 KJV When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    Mat 25:34 KJV Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    1Co 6:9-10 KJV Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    1Co 15:50 KJV Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    Gal 5:21 KJV Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Eph 5:5 KJV For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

    Blessings
    The PuP

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    We ENTER the here & now spiritual kingdom of heaven/ kingdom of God. But only the physical kingdom of God can be inherited:
    What does this have to do with whether or not the NC is in effect?

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    What does this have to do with whether or not the NC is in effect?
    We agree on the KoG & the Koh but I still say no, the NC is not currently active.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Depends on how you define nations.

    If the NC wasn't in effect no one would be experiencing a lick of it, but we do, so.....
    I can't be anymore forgiven that I am right now, and that is because of the blood of the covenant shed for the forgiveness of my sins. It's a no-brainer. Waiting for every aspect to come to pass is just silly.
    Isa 66 and 2 Thess 1 are parallel passages referring to the coming of the Lord in fire and vengeance:

    Verse list:
    Isa 66:15-16 KJV For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
    2Th 1:7-10 KJV And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

    It's because of what follows in Isa 66 that we know that these two passages can only be referring to the appearing of Christ at the time of the rapture when he comes to set up his kingdom. But Isa 66:19-20 goes on to tell us of those AT THAT TIME, who have not heard of his fame or seen his glory. I.e., the gospel of kingdom will NOT have been preached in all of the nations at the time of the rapture. The end will not come until kingdom gospel has went everywhere.

    Isa 66:19-20 KJV And I will set a sign among them, and I will send THOSE THAT ESCAPE of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, THAT HAVE NOT HEARD my fame, neither have SEEN MY GLORY; and they shall DECLARE my glory AMONG the GENTILES. And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

    Blessings
    The PuP

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    What does this have to do with whether or not the NC is in effect?
    Just like the recipients of the covenant made with Abraham were in the phase of multiplication, and were in effect, The proviso that involves inheritance, was (and is still future) to his descendents (his heirs), so too are the provisions of the new covenant in effect, apart from the inheritance that it provides.

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    The PuP

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    Just like the recipients of the covenant made with Abraham were in the phase of multiplication, and were in effect, The proviso that involves inheritance, was (and is still future) to his descendents (his heirs), so too are the provisions of the new covenant in effect, apart from the inheritance that it provides.

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    The PuP
    Why didn't you just lead with that? The NC is in effect.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Why didn't you just lead with that? The NC is in effect.
    I am not sure if you are truly agreeing with me or not. Do you agree with that following statement:
    We enter into the new covenant now, but the provisions of the inheritance are future.

    Here is my point. When Matthew speaks of the kingdom of heaven, he speaks only of entering. When others speak of INHERITING the kingdom (OF GOD), it refers only to the kingdom of God. Matthew never speaks of inheriting the KOH. I think that we agree that the KOH is spiritual and the KOG is the physical kingdom that requires a spiritual entrance. The KOG has both a spiritual aspect and a physical aspect, and in essence the KOH is that spiritual aspect. And until Jesus returns, we live in the kingdom that Jesus appointed unto his apostles and followers... The kingdom of heaven.

    *[[Luk 22:29]] KJV* And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

    The difficulty comes when the other gospel writers (other than Matthew) uses the KOG only in the spiritual sense. Entering the KOH is the same as entering the KOG. But inheriting is not the same as entering, unless ones entering occurs simultaneously with inheriting. This may happen with the children of Israel because of when they will enter the KOG... when Jesus returns. But until then, entering will precede inheriting. Here is the rub. Jesus is the mediator for those who inherit the provisions of the new covenant:

    *[[Heb 9:15]] KJV* And FOR THIS CAUSE he is the MEDIATOR of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, THEY which are called MIGHT RECEIVE THE promise of eternal INHERITANCE.

    Did you see it there? Jesus is the mediator OF THE INHERITANCE, and not the entrance. There is no question that Jesus is the door, the way, the ENTRANCE into the new covenant. There is nothing that Jesus has to do for us to ENTER into the synonymous KOH, aka the new covenant. But when it comes time for the KOG to come at his appearing, it will be his job to determine which of those who have entered into the KOH, which ones shall INHERIT the KOG, which IS the inheritance of the NC. We enter the NC/KOH when we believe on him, but Jesus knows which of the entrants of the KOH has genuine faith, that is worthy of INHERITING the KOG!

    Blessings
    The PuP

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Why didn't you just lead with that? The NC is in effect.
    I am not sure if you are truly agreeing with me or not. Do you agree with that following statement:
    We enter into the new covenant now, but the provisions of the inheritance are future.

    Here is my point. When Matthew speaks of the kingdom of heaven, he speaks only of entering. When others speak of INHERITING the kingdom (OF GOD), it refers only to the kingdom of God. Matthew never speaks of inheriting the KOH. I think that we agree that the KOH is spiritual and the KOG is the physical kingdom that requires a spiritual entrance. The KOG has both a spiritual aspect and a physical aspect, and in essence the KOH is that spiritual aspect. And until Jesus returns, we live in the kingdom that Jesus appointed unto his apostles and followers... The kingdom of heaven.

    *[[Luk 22:29]] KJV* And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

    The difficulty comes when the other gospel writers (other than Matthew) uses the KOG only in the spiritual sense. Entering the KOH is the same as entering the KOG. But inheriting is not the same as entering, unless ones entering occurs simultaneously with inheriting. This may happen with the children of Israel because of when they will enter the KOG... when Jesus returns. But until then, entering will precede inheriting. Here is the rub. Jesus is the mediator for those who inherit the provisions of the new covenant:

    *[[Heb 9:15]] KJV* And FOR THIS CAUSE he is the MEDIATOR of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, THEY which are called MIGHT RECEIVE THE promise of eternal INHERITANCE.

    Did you see it there? Jesus is the mediator OF THE INHERITANCE, and not the entrance. There is no question that Jesus is the door, the way, the ENTRANCE into the new covenant. There is nothing that Jesus has to do for us to ENTER into the synonymous KOH, aka the new covenant. But when it comes time for the KOG to come at his appearing, it will be his job to determine which of those who have entered into the KOH, which ones shall INHERIT the KOG, which IS the inheritance of the NC. We enter the NC/KOH when we believe on him, but Jesus knows which of the entrants of the KOH has genuine faith, that is worthy of INHERITING the KOG!

    Blessings
    The PuP

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    I've addressed such a point in past posts (perhaps you do not recall, that's okay). Here ^ , we're talking about the point in time of Jesus "RETURN" to the earth (FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom) [just making sure we're on the same page thus far]. I'm saying that ALL who will ENTER that time period are "the righteous" ["saved" persons] mortals (those who have "endure[d] unto the end" of the trib) as well as "resurrected [to stand again on the earth] saints" (also "the Church which is His body" RETURNS "WITH" Him, for that) so ALL "saints" of all times will be present FOR the promised and prophesied earthly MK age.
    Your expressed view is obviously based on Pretrib perspective which I don't agree with. Contrary to the belief that the mortals who enter the MK age will be only the saved, I believed that some will be unsaved. However, it's imperative that I clarify that the wicked mortals will not enter into the holy city that comes down from above where Jesus reigns with his saints.

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    [note: I'm not saying I'm certain "the Church which is His body" will reside solely "on the earth" throughout the MK age, but that's outside of the point I am making here; we will RETURN "WITH" Him, because HE will be "returning" at that point in time--we are addressing [in this post] the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth. The subsequent MK time period involves ALL saints of all times--some of them will be "still-living mortals" and note this is who I am addressing in this post, and to answer your specific question ^, here]

    So for the "still-living mortals" ["the righteous"/"saints"] who ENTER the MK age, I believe (and have stated in the past) that Jesus' words in John 11:25-26 apply here: "[after having said 'I AM the RESURRECTION AND the LIFE' and in verse 25 speak of those 'though he were dead yet SHALL he LIVE,' goes on to say] AND whosoever LIVETH and believeth in Me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?"

    So He's addressing both those who DIE... AND those who "LIVE" [are still alive] that (BECAUSE HE is also "THE LIFE") "SHALL NEVER DIE" (so... "but the righteous into life eternal"--the Sheep of the nations [mortals, because they are both, Sheep AND the goats, "BEFORE Him," this is NOT "UP IN Heaven" ['goats' of the nations are never present THERE], and these are "still-living/mortals" standing before Him at the Sheep and goat separation/judgment, when He returns to the earth, at His Second-Coming-to-the-earth point in the chronology--only the Sheep/the righteous/saints will ENTER the earthly MK but, these alone [of all the other saints also present for it], only THESE will be capable of bearing children/reproducing because they are "still mortals," yet because of what Jesus had said ["[I AM the RESURRECTION] AND THE LIFE"], they "SHALL NEVER DIE" (JESUS HIMSELF WILL BE PRESENT AND RULING/REIGNING!!! [no matter where the actual location of Him will reside, doesn't matter for this post/point]; again, the children born to them are not "born automatically righteous," so they are distinct, in that, any of them may be susceptible to "death" [it will be much more rare in the MK age] but only the rebellious will die [who will later be "the dead" at the GWTj [among those, "the dead [/unsaved/unrighteous]" of all times])
    I have a different understanding of John 11:25-26 to yours.

    25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

    Here Jesus said that for those who believe, even though they will suffer physical death, yet they shall live - as in resurrecting to immortality/eternal life.

    26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? This means that those who believe shall not die the second death which is the ultimate (Rev 21:8)

    For me, the goat and sheep judgment in Matt 25 is another depiction of the separation of the just from the wicked in the Rapture. Post-trib doesn't support your interpretation.

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    Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    In this post of mine, I was only addressing the idea being presented regarding the identity of "Israel" (i.e. showing that "the twelve tribes of Israel" will be present in the MK age). I'm not addressing who all will sit on thrones and where and what for (for that, I see two distinct groups, if you will, in the Rev20:4 verse, separated by the "[colon] and I saw..." [these "reign with [G3326 - meta - accompanying] Him" (distinct from our "WITH [G4862 - syn - denoting "UNION" and/or "IDENTIFICATION WITH"] Him"); and I've mentioned the 12 and that they will sit on 12 thrones judgING the 12 tribes of Israel [during the earthly MK age]; and I've mentioned [I think in this thread (?)] that "we [that is, the Church which is His body] shall JUDGE ANGELS," and recall what I've said about the parallels [time-wise] of Isaiah 24:21-22[23] with [and note: 'punish the host of the high ones that are on high, AND the kings of the earth upon the earth'] with that of Rev19:19-21/16:14-16/20:5a 's timing; etc...). Add to this what I've pointed out also about the "RETURN" verses in Lk19:12,15,17,19 about "have thou authority over 10 cities" (this is at His "RETURN" and these are still-living persons at that point in the chronology, given this "responsibility" also).
    I agree with this. The 12 disciples, (not the Apostles...there's a difference ) will judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

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