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Thread: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

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    Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Thoughts............I will reply. Thanks.

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Thoughts............I will reply. Thanks.
    No I believe that was the time Israel was protected from Rome until 70AD

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Thoughts............I will reply. Thanks.
    Which vision of Ezekiel? He had quite few. Thanks bro.

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Alright.......well either this thought is too far out there and or folks don't understand the possibility. Let's look into the two most common thoughts on his vision of the city/temple that I know of, perhaps there is more.

    The two interpretations I have heard is that the vision was something Israel may have obtained if they were faithful. Thus the vision never came to life evidenced by the continued sacrifices ect... However I think the vision is way too detailed for a reason and I don't think God wasted 8 chapters to described something which never was to happen. The other is that the city/temple occurs during the supposed 1000 year reign. These folks thus do believe this city/temple is built but what if there is not a 1000 year reign, when then is this city/temple upon the earth?

    This is where the thread attempts to answer the question. This city/temple in Ezekiel's vision is not a fairy tale nor some structure placed in a supposed time after Christ returns rather a possibility that it is the same as the woman in Rev 12 which does comes to earth from heaven no less BEFORE Christ returns. Is it possible that the woman in Rev 12 looks like Ezekiel's vision from chapters 40-48?

    Rev 12
    1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    Ez 40
    2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
    3 And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.

    Now I am going to throw out some other thoughts which support this theory.

    1. Do we not see a measuring of the "temple of God" on earth before Christ's returns AND for the period of 3.5 years. Note it says they are treading the HOLY CITY on earth and BEFORE Christ returns.... How is this possible unless this woman is the holy city which again is from heaven and thus is described in Ezekiel!!!!

    Rev 11
    1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    2. Do we not see a king whom will reign from a city likened unto this woman adorned in precious jewels, whom will divide the land about, whom will take it's daily sacrifices way, whom will say he is God in temple OF GOD, whom will sit on the north sides of this city (note temple located in the north part).

    Rev 17
    4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,

    Dan 11
    39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
    45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

    Do we see the event of Rev 12 below and the following troddenning by the gentiles??

    Dan 8
    10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
    11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
    12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
    13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, [B]to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    IS 14
    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


    So the woman in Rev 12 would be Ezekiel's city/temple vision. Both are shown to be located on earth at some point. It would show this point is after the events of Rev 12 and before Rev 13 for 3.5 years. At a later point this woman commits fornication with the beast which then culminates with Christ's return and the renewing of all things.

    How much more of a deception than a beast king siting in the actual holy city whom all the world then believes is Christ. It can't folks.

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Alright.......well either this thought is too far out there and or folks don't understand the possibility. Let's look into the two most common thoughts on his vision of the city/temple that I know of, perhaps there is more.

    The two interpretations I have heard is that the vision was something Israel may have obtained if they were faithful. Thus the vision never came to life evidenced by the continued sacrifices ect... However I think the vision is way too detailed for a reason and I don't think God wasted 8 chapters to described something which never was to happen. The other is that the city/temple occurs during the supposed 1000 year reign. These folks thus do believe this city/temple is built but what if there is not a 1000 year reign, when then is this city/temple upon the earth?

    This is where the thread attempts to answer the question. This city/temple in Ezekiel's vision is not a fairy tale nor some structure placed in a supposed time after Christ returns rather a possibility that it is the same as the woman in Rev 12 which does comes to earth from heaven no less BEFORE Christ returns. Is it possible that the woman in Rev 12 looks like Ezekiel's vision from chapters 40-48?

    Rev 12
    1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    Ez 40
    2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
    3 And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.

    Now I am going to throw out some other thoughts which support this theory.

    1. Do we not see a measuring of the "temple of God" on earth before Christ's returns AND for the period of 3.5 years. Note it says they are treading the HOLY CITY on earth and BEFORE Christ returns.... How is this possible unless this woman is the holy city which again is from heaven and thus is described in Ezekiel!!!!

    Rev 11
    1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    2. Do we not see a king whom will reign from a city likened unto this woman adorned in precious jewels, whom will divide the land about, whom will take it's daily sacrifices way, whom will say he is God in temple OF GOD, whom will sit on the north sides of this city (note temple located in the north part).

    Rev 17
    4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,

    Dan 11
    39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
    45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

    Do we see the event of Rev 12 below and the following troddenning by the gentiles??

    Dan 8
    10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
    11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
    12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
    13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, [B]to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    IS 14
    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


    So the woman in Rev 12 would be Ezekiel's city/temple vision. Both are shown to be located on earth at some point. It would show this point is after the events of Rev 12 and before Rev 13 for 3.5 years. At a later point this woman commits fornication with the beast which then culminates with Christ's return and the renewing of all things.

    How much more of a deception than a beast king siting in the actual holy city whom all the world then believes is Christ. It can't folks.
    Genesis gives us the description and tells us that the woman is Israel

    Genesis 37:9-11
    9 Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”

    10 When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?” 11 His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the matter in mind.

    This description is later seen in

    Revelation 12:1
    A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

    and we know that Joseph's father was Jacob who's name was also Israel

    A future temple would put walls between us and God thus it is not required as there is nothing now between us and God the temple is the church

    Revelation 21:1-3 & 9-10
    Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

    9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

    Notice that the Holy City does not some down to our earth as our earth is no more as there is a new earth

    Thus Ezekiel's temple is the New Jerusalem the Holy City the church

    I see the temple which was trodden on by the gentiles as the 3 1/2 year war leading up to 70AD

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Genesis gives us the description and tells us that the woman is Israel
    So the woman "Israel" comes down from heaven Rev 12? People? Would it not be a city?

    Notice that the Holy City does not some down to our earth as our earth is no more as there is a new earth
    That is in Rev 21, how about Rev 12?

    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    The wilderness is the current world in a future state.

    IS 14
    17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

    Rev 17
    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman
    18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


    Thus Ezekiel's temple is the New Jerusalem the Holy City the church
    Yes it is but it is also a city (call it a future old Jerusalem) which comes down before Christ returns in Rev 12.

    So the same city comes down in Rev 12 then aligns with the beast and then renewed and comes down again in Rev 21.

    I see the temple which was trodden on by the gentiles as the 3 1/2 year war leading up to 70AD
    Who then were the two witnesses during that time?

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Alright.......well either this thought is too far out there and or folks don't understand the possibility. Let's look into the two most common thoughts on his vision of the city/temple that I know of, perhaps there is more.

    The two interpretations I have heard is that the vision was something Israel may have obtained if they were faithful. Thus the vision never came to life evidenced by the continued sacrifices ect... However I think the vision is way too detailed for a reason and I don't think God wasted 8 chapters to described something which never was to happen. The other is that the city/temple occurs during the supposed 1000 year reign. These folks thus do believe this city/temple is built but what if there is not a 1000 year reign, when then is this city/temple upon the earth?

    This is where the thread attempts to answer the question. This city/temple in Ezekiel's vision is not a fairy tale nor some structure placed in a supposed time after Christ returns rather a possibility that it is the same as the woman in Rev 12 which does comes to earth from heaven no less BEFORE Christ returns. Is it possible that the woman in Rev 12 looks like Ezekiel's vision from chapters 40-48?

    Rev 12
    1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    Ez 40
    2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
    3 And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.

    Now I am going to throw out some other thoughts which support this theory.

    1. Do we not see a measuring of the "temple of God" on earth before Christ's returns AND for the period of 3.5 years. Note it says they are treading the HOLY CITY on earth and BEFORE Christ returns.... How is this possible unless this woman is the holy city which again is from heaven and thus is described in Ezekiel!!!!

    Rev 11
    1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    2. Do we not see a king whom will reign from a city likened unto this woman adorned in precious jewels, whom will divide the land about, whom will take it's daily sacrifices way, whom will say he is God in temple OF GOD, whom will sit on the north sides of this city (note temple located in the north part).

    Rev 17
    4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,

    Dan 11
    39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
    45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

    Do we see the event of Rev 12 below and the following troddenning by the gentiles??

    Dan 8
    10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
    11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
    12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
    13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, [B]to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    IS 14
    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


    So the woman in Rev 12 would be Ezekiel's city/temple vision. Both are shown to be located on earth at some point. It would show this point is after the events of Rev 12 and before Rev 13 for 3.5 years. At a later point this woman commits fornication with the beast which then culminates with Christ's return and the renewing of all things.

    How much more of a deception than a beast king siting in the actual holy city whom all the world then believes is Christ. It can't folks.
    OK: Thanks for the answer. It seems that the Woman in the Wilderness is not the problem. It is the TWO TEMPLES. We know that at the moment there is no Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. We also know from your scriptures above that there must be one for the Beast to sit in. We also know from Ezekiel Chapter 40 onward, that a Temple for Emmanuel to live in during the Millennium will be constructed in Jerusalem. And we know that theses two Temples are different. Reconciling this is, to me at least, very simple.
    1. There is a committee of Jews who have all the materials ready to build a new Temple in Jerusalem right now. Two things are holding it up. (i) The political environment, and (ii) it is impossible to establish, after all records have been destroyed, who are the Levites for the Temple service. If the Beast is as powerful and charismatic as scripture says he will be, it will be no problem for him to get political authorization to give the go-ahead. And if he, and present day Israel are less than truthful, they can install anybody as Levites. So a physical third Temple on Moriah in Jerusalem is almost a settled thing.

    The Temple of Ezekiel is another matter. Why is it so different in structure and size to the Temples of Solomon and Zerubbabel? The answer is again twofold;
    1. When Christ returns He will be utterly vindicated by His Father Jehovah. Thus, no-one on earth will have a more splendid House than Jesus. This is reflected in its measurements and materials.
    2. The other reason is that although our Lord Jesus will live in this Temple, the Temple MUST reflect the completed work of Jesus. Any part of the New Temple that denies what Jesus has done would be dishonest. So the Temple of Ezekiel must show, for instance, that the Veil between the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies is gone. This is already evident in the Book of Hebrews. The Altar of Incense now belongs to the Holy of Holies since the Veil or Curtain in front of it was torn away by God (torn from top to bottom). Thus, the Holy Place seems to be missing in Ezekiel. It is one big Holy of Holies.

    Thus, without going into detail, a new Temple like Solomon's will be built anon, but will be violated, polluted and defiled by the Beast for three and one half years. It will probably collapse from the earthquake in Jerusalem (Rev.11:13, 19). Then, once our Lord has set up His Millennial Throne He will commission a New Temple reflecting His majesty and reflecting the changes made by His finished work. This is the Temple of Ezekiel.

    Hope this helps a bit.

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Just a rough progression of how things happen from my POV

    - 7 seals, during which a 3rd Temple has arisen (at the 70 weeks marker from the 70 years of Jerusalem desolation marker, all the dates of which I list in the pdf's below) (after 70 weeks, 7 weeks, 62 weeks, then .5 weeks, the abomination statue is placed in the 3rd Temple, without stopping the sacrifices)

    - Trumpets 1-4 & 5 occurring at the same day, starting the 5 months of the 5th Trumpet locusts (at the Day of the Lord, Gog's locusts will cut off the meat & wine offering in the 3rd Temple - Joel 1:4-9) (people falsely perceive this as the end of the 'Gog war' when in fact, it is Gog taking over - Gog has defeated a false Gog; start 7 months of clean-up)

    - 6th Trumpet (Gog has taken over the 'sanctuary' after taking over the 'city' 5 months earlier) (Dan 9:26's 'people of the prince to come will corrupt the city & the sanctuary)

    At the 2nd woe, Gog cuts off prayers in the 'sanctuary' (distinct from stopping animal sacrifices: when we look at Rev 11, the 'outer court' is where animal sacrifices are performed at the bronze/ brazen altar & the inner court is where the 'incense offering'/ prayers are offered. The 'Gentiles' in question that are given control of the outer court, ie animal sacrifices at the brazen altar, are presumably 'Messiah ben Joseph & Messiah ben David' who function as imitation 2 witnesses, Zerubabbel & Joshua who are 'building the temple of the Lord' )

    2nd woe/ time of the 2 witnesses 1260 & 3.5 days (new Zerubabbel & new Joshua /= Yeshua/ 'Jesus'/ the 'branch' of Isaiah & Zechariah that will build the temple of the Lord (the 2 witnesses are building the temple of the Lord)

    - 7th Trumpet starts (here, so far, this is just a straight read through from Rev 6 through 12): at Rev 12, the woman gives 'birth to the messiah' in Psalm 2:7
    Psalm 2

    Why do the nations rage
    and the peoples plot in vain?
    2
    The kings of the earth set themselves,
    and the rulers take counsel together,
    against the Lord and against his Anointed, saying,
    3
    “Let us burst their bonds apart
    and cast away their cords from us.”
    4
    He who sits in the heavens laughs;
    the Lord holds them in derision.
    5
    Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
    and terrify them in his fury, saying,
    6
    “As for me, I have set my King
    on Zion, my holy hill.”
    7
    I will tell of the decree:
    The Lord said to me, “You are my Son;
    today I have begotten you.

    8
    Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
    and the ends of the earth your possession.
    9
    You shall break them with a rod of iron
    and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.”
    10
    Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
    be warned, O rulers of the earth.
    11
    Serve the Lord with fear,
    and rejoice with trembling.
    12
    Kiss the Son,
    lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
    for his wrath is quickly kindled.
    Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

    The 'beast from the sea & earth' (abyss) of Rev 13 arise here at the 7th Trumpet. The 'bad fish' of Matt 13 that are gathered comprise the beast (kingdom) from the sea; the 'bad wheat'/ ie 'tares' that are gathered are the beast (kingdom) from the earth.

    When we get to Rev 14, with Jesus on Mt Zion, this has started at the 77th anniversary of Jerusalem's desolations (Daniel 9:24) (May 14, 2025) (when the 'holy place' is 'anointed')

    At this juncture is Zechariah 14:2, where 1/2 of the city goes into the wilderness & 1/2 stays = Rev 14:8 8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication..

    Rev 14 is the harvest described in Deuteronomy 16:13
    “You shall keep the Feast of Booths seven days, when you have gathered in the produce from your threshing floor and your winepress.


    which is why Zechariah 14
    16Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths.

    17And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain;h there shall be the plague with which the Lord afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths. 19This shall be the punishment to Egypt and the punishment to all the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths.

    The 'harvest' (Matt 13 again) starts at the end of the 2nd woe, (May 14, 2025), then at Sukkot/ Feast of Tabernacles/ booths the wrath goes out/ 7 bowls of wrath.

    The woman is in the 'wilderness'/ people live in 'sukkahs' in the wilderness/ Sukkot would be a celebration of 'living in wilderness' in a sukkah at Sukkot/ Feast of Tabernacles/ Booths.

    1/2 of the 'city' (the woman) goes into exile, 1/2 stays in Jerusalem. The 1/2 that left will come with Jesus back to Jerusalem at the Sukkot following May 14, 2025 (Oct 8, 2025)



    hmm, I can't seem to upload any pdf attachments, have to find a workaround.

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness


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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    So the woman "Israel" comes down from heaven Rev 12? People? Would it not be a city?
    Revelation 12:1
    12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

    I'm not sure why you think that the woman is in heaven it is only a sign that John sees up in heaven as in a vision and the chapter doesn't mention her coming down to the earth. Remember that chapter 12 is very symbolic so it isn't an actual woman just like satan isn't an actual dragon.

    The woman is Israel but we also see her as Mary as Mary is from Israel and is the one who gives birth to Jesus in verse 5. We also see that the woman in verses 13-16 is shown as Jerusalem when satan through Rome tried to but unsuccessfully destroy her in the battle of Beth Heron in 66AD.

    We then see her as Israel again in verse 17 as the first Christians came from Israel

    The wilderness is the current world in a future state.
    I see the wilderness not as an actual place but more of a situation or state of mind or a time of protection.

    Yes it is but it is also a city (call it a future old Jerusalem) which comes down before Christ returns in Rev 12.
    Where do you see the return of Jesus in chapter 12? It records His ascension but not His return

    Who then were the two witnesses during that time?
    I see the two witnesses not as two literal people but the law and the prophets which all throughout the OT pointed to Jesus

    Luke 16:25-31
    27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

    29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

    30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

    31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

    See that above Abraham tells the rich man that all they need is the Law and the Prophets to realize who Jesus is without them they won't believe even though Jesus rose from the dead

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    OK: Thanks for the answer. It seems that the Woman in the Wilderness is not the problem. It is the TWO TEMPLES. We know that at the moment there is no Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. We also know from your scriptures above that there must be one for the Beast to sit in. We also know from Ezekiel Chapter 40 onward, that a Temple for Emmanuel to live in during the Millennium will be constructed in Jerusalem. And we know that theses two Temples are different. Reconciling this is, to me at least, very simple.
    1. There is a committee of Jews who have all the materials ready to build a new Temple in Jerusalem right now. Two things are holding it up. (i) The political environment, and (ii) it is impossible to establish, after all records have been destroyed, who are the Levites for the Temple service. If the Beast is as powerful and charismatic as scripture says he will be, it will be no problem for him to get political authorization to give the go-ahead. And if he, and present day Israel are less than truthful, they can install anybody as Levites. So a physical third Temple on Moriah in Jerusalem is almost a settled thing.

    The Temple of Ezekiel is another matter. Why is it so different in structure and size to the Temples of Solomon and Zerubbabel? The answer is again twofold;
    1. When Christ returns He will be utterly vindicated by His Father Jehovah. Thus, no-one on earth will have a more splendid House than Jesus. This is reflected in its measurements and materials.
    2. The other reason is that although our Lord Jesus will live in this Temple, the Temple MUST reflect the completed work of Jesus. Any part of the New Temple that denies what Jesus has done would be dishonest. So the Temple of Ezekiel must show, for instance, that the Veil between the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies is gone. This is already evident in the Book of Hebrews. The Altar of Incense now belongs to the Holy of Holies since the Veil or Curtain in front of it was torn away by God (torn from top to bottom). Thus, the Holy Place seems to be missing in Ezekiel. It is one big Holy of Holies.

    Thus, without going into detail, a new Temple like Solomon's will be built anon, but will be violated, polluted and defiled by the Beast for three and one half years. It will probably collapse from the earthquake in Jerusalem (Rev.11:13, 19). Then, once our Lord has set up His Millennial Throne He will commission a New Temple reflecting His majesty and reflecting the changes made by His finished work. This is the Temple of Ezekiel.

    Hope this helps a bit.
    Just to add a point. Ezekiel's temple isn't built by Man. It is already in existence in heaven and comes down with Jesus as part of the NJ.
    Notice how Ezekiel's temple fits the description of the temple in Revelation (apart from Rev 11:1 & 2, which is the man made temple).

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Revelation 12:1
    12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
    I'm not sure why you think that the woman is in heaven
    12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman

    it is only a sign that John sees up in heaven as in a vision and the chapter doesn't mention her coming down to the earth.
    It is a sign of something tangible. Dragon is Satan, woman = a city

    First the dragon is cast down to the earth wherein he cast out water after her, thus she is on earth.

    I see the wilderness not as an actual place but more of a situation or state of mind or a time of protection.
    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman

    So this woman is in not any actual place?

    IS 14
    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
    17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

    Scriptures even say this world becomes a wilderness.

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    It is the TWO TEMPLES. We know that at the moment there is no Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. We also know from your scriptures above that there must be one for the Beast to sit in. We also know from Ezekiel Chapter 40 onward, that a Temple for Emmanuel to live in during the Millennium will be constructed in Jerusalem. And we know that theses two Temples are different.
    If one sees no millennium then Ezekiel's temple becomes the one in which the beast sits. Even the scriptures say the beasts sits in the temple OF GOD. (though it may be a replication)

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


    [*]There is a committee of Jews who have all the materials ready to build a new Temple in Jerusalem right now. Two things are holding it up. (i) The political environment, and (ii) it is impossible to establish, after all records have been destroyed, who are the Levites for the Temple service. If the Beast is as powerful and charismatic as scripture says he will be, it will be no problem for him to get political authorization to give the go-ahead. And if he, and present day Israel are less than truthful, they can install anybody as Levites. So a physical third Temple on Moriah in Jerusalem is almost a settled thing.[/LIST]
    The Temple of Ezekiel is another matter. Why is it so different in structure and size to the Temples of Solomon and Zerubbabel? The answer is again twofold;
    1. When Christ returns He will be utterly vindicated by His Father Jehovah. Thus, no-one on earth will have a more splendid House than Jesus. This is reflected in its measurements and materials.
    2. The other reason is that although our Lord Jesus will live in this Temple, the Temple MUST reflect the completed work of Jesus. Any part of the New Temple that denies what Jesus has done would be dishonest. So the Temple of Ezekiel must show, for instance, that the Veil between the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies is gone. This is already evident in the Book of Hebrews. The Altar of Incense now belongs to the Holy of Holies since the Veil or Curtain in front of it was torn away by God (torn from top to bottom). Thus, the Holy Place seems to be missing in Ezekiel. It is one big Holy of Holies.

    Thus, without going into detail, a new Temple like Solomon's will be built anon, but will be violated, polluted and defiled by the Beast for three and one half years. It will probably collapse from the earthquake in Jerusalem (Rev.11:13, 19). Then, once our Lord has set up His Millennial Throne He will commission a New Temple reflecting His majesty and reflecting the changes made by His finished work. This is the Temple of Ezekiel.

    Hope this helps a bit.
    Perhaps your not understanding my thought. What I am saying is the city itself in heaven which does comes to earth in a NHNE also comes down before this event as described by the woman coming to earth in Rev 12. Now the city and the temple are two different buildings. I believe the city (woman) is made without hands with the temple being made by the followers of the beast ie the image of the beast. I think thus the reason for such detail for those to replicate it.


    So question, if there is no millennium then where do you put Ezekiel's vision?

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Just to add a point. Ezekiel's temple isn't built by Man. It is already in existence in heaven and comes down with Jesus as part of the NJ.
    Notice how Ezekiel's temple fits the description of the temple in Revelation (apart from Rev 11:1 & 2, which is the man made temple).
    Yes. This is one school of thought. I could not subscribe to it because of the following:
    There are actually THREE distinct Temples ON EARTH in the Bible.
    1. The First is the Tabernacle of the Wilderness which was replaced by a fixed abode by Solomon an later by Zerubbabel. This is God's physical abode on earth in the midst of Israel.
    2. The Second is the Body of Christ. This our Lord introduces in John Chapter 2. If we consider that God wanted man to eat of the Tree of Life, in which case the fruit of this divine Tree would be IN and ONE with he man who ate it, this abode is the one that God originally wanted. Added to this, our Lord Jesus, conceived by the Holy Spirit, did not possess the fallen nature of Adam and so He was a "Holy" House of God (Lk.1:35). Now New Jerusalem is not a Temple. Revelation 21:22 says; "And I saw NO temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." Without going into detail, New Jerusalem is a "sign" to show the consummation of Gods many-faceted plan. But one may object that Revelation 21:3 seems to contradict verse 22. It says; "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." But this difficulty is solved if we stay with the OVERALL vision of Christ in the Bible. Our Lord Jesus is BOTH the Tabernacle of God AND God. He is designated by Isaiah with the Title of "Emmanuel", which means "God with us" (Isa.7:14, 8:8; Matt.1:23). But He is also The Tabernacle of God (Jn.2:19-21). So New Jerusalem is a BUILDING but not a Temple. It HOUSES the Tabernacle of God.
    3. The Third distinct Temple is the Church. Of course, it is the sum of Christ's Body (1st Cor.12.12). But the Church is revealed as identical to Eve and Eve was a distinct person. In Ephesians 5:30-32 it is, "For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones." The context is the wife, and the "flesh and bones" alludes to Eve (Gen.2.23). The verse 32 continues with, "This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church." The word "and" is a conjunction. It joins two different things. So the Temple of God is also the Church.

    These THREE Temples all fulfill a unique purpose, and although God dwells in all THREE, He dwells in them with different goals.
    1. The physical Temple of Israel is so that God, Who is a Spirit, can dwell WITH, or AMONG profane men without injuring His holiness. Since Israel were profane lawbreakers right up to 70 AD, God dwelt in a Holy Place BEHIND a THICK CURTAIN. It was there that He met with Israel's representative - the High Priest once a year. In the Millennium, Emmanuel will live WITH and AMONG Israel. But they refused Christ and so they do not enjoy the cleansing that the Church does. So our Lord Jesus will need a physical House to live AMONG Israel but still be separate from them.
    2. Christ is God's perfect plan and consummation. He has a Man who is holy. A Man who is unsullied by Adam's corruption. And a Man who is so permeated and saturated with God that Colossians 2:9 says, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." And the purpose of this organic union between God and Man is that Jesus Christ, the Man, could be "... the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, ... ." (Heb.1:3). Whereas the Church member - the Christian, is given a "measure of every part" (Eph.4:16), John 3:34 say of Christ, "For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him." Our Lord Jesus, the Abode and Habitation of God displays God in ALL His glory.
    3. The Church is only one step below this. The Church, with its many members, all with differing gifts, differing standards of faith and differing functions, but still in organic union with God, displays God's MANY FACETS individually.

    • Thus, Ezekiel's Temple is a physical HOUSE for the physical presence of Christ in a physical Land so that the physical nations can go up once a year and worship Him as God.
    • The Church, although made of BODIES (1st Cor.6:15), is, "... as living stones, are being built up a SPIRITUAL HOUSE, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1st Pet.2:5)
    • New Jerusalem is (i) a City, (ii) a Woman - a Bride, (iii) from heaven, (iv) but on earth, (v) a Cube - the shape of the Holy of Holies, (vi) but made of men, (vii) God and the Lamb - Emmanuel - as the Temple of it, (viii) huge - ca. 2,200 kilometers wide, long and high, (ix) measured with the measure of an angle - men in resurrection, and (x) one City but contains THREE distinct entities - God, The Church as Walls, and Israel as Gates. And finally, the New Jerusalem only comes down to earth at the END of the Millennium. The Temple of Ezekiel is built at the BEGINNING of the Millennium.

    I guess there are a few things you don't quite see the same way as I do:

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    Re: Is Ezekiel's vision the woman in Rev 12 being nourished in the wilderness

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Just to add a point. Ezekiel's temple isn't built by Man.
    Could it be rebuilt? We have the blueprint. Thus I believe this is what occurs.

    I may have not stated the thread correctly. Ezekiel's vision is of a city and a temple.

    My point is that the city is the woman in rev 12 coming to earth. A city made without hands. The temple to be built which represents the image to the beast whom the followers build per specifications Ezekiel's vision .

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