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Thread: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

  1. #1

    Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
    **Romans‬ *10:17‬ *KJV


    For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
    **Hebrews‬ *4:12‬ *KJV


    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God......In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.....That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.


    ....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.


    For the law was given by Moses, << >>but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
    **John‬ *1:1, 4-5, 9, 12, 14, 17‬ *KJV‬‬


    "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
    **John‬ *14:6‬ *KJV


    "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


    John 3:3 ,5-6.


    But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.”
    **John‬ *4:23-26‬ *KJV‬‬


    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not.....
    **John‬ *6:63-64‬ *KJV


    For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
    **John‬ *5:21-22, 24‬ *KJV‬‬


    And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
    John‬ *8: 23KJV‬‬


    He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God:


    for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
    **John‬ *3:31-36‬ *KJV‬‬


    “Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:....: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
    **John‬ *18:36-37‬ *KJV‬‬


    I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. ...Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things...


    Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. ...If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.....


    He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.....Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. ....


    Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.”
    **John‬ *8:26, 28, 31-32, 36, 47, 51-52‬ *KJV‬‬


    "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
    **John‬ *12:48-50‬ *KJV‬‬




    “Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. John 7:16-17


    Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.”
    **John‬ *7:28-29‬ *KJV


    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.....

    ...Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

    And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
    **Matthew‬ *7:21, 24-27‬ *KJV


    And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
    **Matthew‬ *24:14‬ *KJV‬‬


    "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
    **Matthew‬ *24:35‬ *KJV


    just before the crucifixion


    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.....

    For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me....

    ....I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

    Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.”
    **John‬ *17:3-4, 8, 14, 17‬ *KJV‬‬


    after the resurrection


    “And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
    **Matthew‬ *28:18-20‬ *KJV‬‬




    If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words,......from such withdraw thyself.”
    **1 Timothy‬ *6:3-4KJV‬‬




    I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
    **2 Timothy‬ *4:1-4‬ *KJV‬‬


    doctrine is so important, because it shapes the minds thinking, can lead to God, or can lead away from God. One needs only look to the damage of the first false doctrine " you will not surely die"The true north by which one can always discern truth and fallacy regarding Gods Word......is to check the doctrine according to Jesus Christ, and those who carried the same gospel to the world, that will never change. Whatever you do in the lord, never look away or lose trust in the words of our Lord and savior in them you will find comfort, assurance, hope, reproof, correction, rebuke when needed, guidance, salvation and eternal life ...and when you keep them and abide , they become part of the thinking within cleansing the heart and mind which leads us to sin, leading us in righteousness.


    I say this because many differing ideas will use different reasons why the gospel isn't meant for you. His words, are life to his people the only life eternal is according to his word.....The issue that causes sin is this.


    “And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
    **Mark‬ *7:20-23‬ *KJV


    The answer is to have faith in the power of Gods living word because we take it by faith knowing he is able through the word to change the things within our hearts and minds by this


    For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
    **Hebrews‬ *4:12‬ *KJV


    The only salvation which God will ever offer is by the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not the law of Moses, not any new " revolutionary grace gospel" not in any other doctrine but that which is given ordained of God from the very beginning, the one who came from heaven to speak eternal life into the mortals abiding in the shadow of death. Life to the dead.


    follow Jesus the true north of Gods compass. God bless you

  2. #2

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    Understanding the epistles language and references

    Spirit and truth......

    the gospel....

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not.....
    **John‬ *6:63-64‬ *KJV

    I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

    Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
    **John‬ *17:14, 17‬ *KJV‬‬

    the epistles all make reference to the things Jesus spoke in the gospel....

    Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.....But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. James 1:18-22.

    There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. . For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

    ....For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

    Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
    **Romans‬ *8:1-2, 5-6, 12-13‬ *KJV‬‬

    “Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

    Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
    **1 Peter‬ *1:20-23, 25‬ *KJV‬‬


    Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.”
    **John‬ *15:3-4‬ *KJV‬‬

    Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”
    **Ephesians‬ *5:26-27‬ *KJV

    For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

    ....This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
    **Galatians‬ *5:6-7, 13, 16

    if one looks first to the words of our lord and savior.....then many things the epistles are saying, have understanding. Rather than leaving all the wondering and questions....how do we follow the spirit? What does it mean by truth?.....it begins and ends with your savior in whom you believe. Yes he most assuredly suffered so greatly for us, he poured out his blood for,our forgiveness......this is the very reason we owe him our submission and acceptance of his word. He earned our faith, trust and hope that is alive and well in him.

    look through Jesus at the rest and the light shines he is our home. Remember his doctrine is not written on stone, as we receive it in faith, it becomes thoughts in the minds like any information or knowledge does that we take in believing. As we hold fast it is able to change the heart where sin has its root, removing those things. The power is actually in believing Jesus.

    Struggling with lust and its fruit....a believer needs the gospel teachings concerning lust....it's the call to repentance, but understand the word of God is the power, we believe God is able to save us through Jesus, so we believe the word. like Abraham he didn't just say " okay lord I believe you"....he really did believe what God told him, even though it didn't seem possible for a man 100 years old, and a woman of 99 years to conceive and bare a son. But when he believed What God said, it was accounted to him as righteousness.

    we believe he is able to redeem our hearts and minds, because if we are clean there, our actions will be clean.

    Abraham believed we understand this because when God told him something to do, and that he would be blessed ....Abraham went and did what he said, he was operating in faith. First he had to hear, accept and believe what God said ,faith cometh through the word of God

  3. #3

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    Please explain what the “revolutionary grace gospel” is . . .

  4. #4

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    John 16:12 "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. But WHEN..." (when, what?)

    And then there's what the Spirit supplied through Paul's pen, here: https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/1-25.htm

  5. #5

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”

    **Romans‬ *6:12, 14-18, 22‬ *KJV‬‬

    "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. "

    "For the law was given by Moses, << >>but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” John 1:17


    pauls words....

    "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”


    “Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
    **John‬ *7:16-17,

    “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    They answered him, We....Abraham's seed...were never in bondage ...how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

    And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
    **John‬ *8:31-36‬ *KJV‬‬


    Paul's words....

    “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.”
    **1 Timothy‬ *6:3-5‬ *KJV‬‬

    Johns words....

    "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
    **2 John‬ *1:9-10‬ *KJV‬‬

    Jesus words.....

    He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”

    **John‬ *14:21, 23-24‬ *KJV

  6. #6

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    Any doctrine that tells someone that the words of Jesus Christ in the gospel, doesn't app,y to them because it's not grace. Read the popular book " grace revolution" or any of the books teaching the same.

    to say " we're saved by grace" is true, to interpret the entire bible as " anything Jesus teaches us to actually do, isnt grace, it's the law of Moses." The teachings like " if anything makes you feel guilty when you do it Is t from God, because there's nothing to do.......any teaching that refuses to accept the teachings of Jesus as the essential foundation of salvation, this including the sacrifice in the four gospels. All of it is the gospel.

    sort of like the Old Testament prophets thinking as long as they sacrificed for sin, it didn't matter whether they actually accept and heed Gods word for what it is.


    God bless

  7. #7

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    John 16:12 "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. But WHEN..." (when, what?)

    And then there's what the Spirit supplied through Paul's pen, here: https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/1-25.htm
    do you suppose the Holy Ghost will stray from the words Jesus taught in the gospel?

    “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
    **John‬ *14:23-26‬ *KJV‬‬

    Paul and all the apostles, taught the same things, they took the gospel to the world just like Jesus commanded them to do. Paul, expounds on the gospel, but nothing he teaches will stray from the gospel, same with Peter, John, James.....They were speaking of the same spirit the one above that says " he will teach you and bring all things whatsoever I have said to you into remembrance.

    Paul doesn't teach anything less than the word of God, it's just that I think people don't understand a lot of what he says, because he goes on and on about things explaining deep points from the gospel. It's why his letters are the only ones were warned about, they are hard to grasp, and also easily distorted to the destruction of the hearers.


    “Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;

    even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
    [/SIZE]
    **2 Peter‬ *3:14-16‬ *KJV‬‬


    it's the very reason one needs to go to Jesus first, Paul makes very long points , it's easy to distort one can quote a few verses, and what happens is " grace means nothing else applies" yet Paul teaches consistently about both grace, and repentance he only uses differing words, because he was a well educated Roman, Jew. As where the other apostles were mostly uneducated fishermen, on the other end of Rome.

    Paul was a Roman citizen by birth, a Pharisee according to the law, and much more educated were Roman citizens , while Jews were oppressed and controlled.

    there's only one gospel, and Paul is no ones lord. He is a servant of Jesus Christ, and a steward of the revelation given him, the same as the other apostles, walked with Jesus and heard him teach, Paul received the gospel by revelation, but it's no different, it only appears so because of how he writes

  8. #8

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    “And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

    And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.”
    **Acts‬ *20:20-21, 25‬ *KJV‬‬

    Paul's testimony before Agrippa, concerning the things he taught


    "Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.”
    **Acts‬ *26:19-20‬ *KJV


    yet of one goes to his epistles....you can easily just quote this, and then begin teaching a doctrine that makes the works meet for repentance that are throughout his epistles in other places....void because it's plucked from its context and the rest is eliminated.

    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
    **Ephesians‬ *2:8-9‬ *KJV‬‬


    if one just grabs that, you can begin shading things as if " any works" you are doing, are not what God says to do.....then you can go throughout his epistles selecting only things that seem to support this false doctrine....sadly a lot of,folks believe what they hear, without looking into it themselves, and see the context, through prayer and study.

    We're in the many teachers and doctrines age, it's why Christians have so many vast,y contrary understandings of what it is to be Christian, according to Christ......

  9. #9

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    Any doctrine that tells someone that the words of Jesus Christ in the gospel, doesn't app,y to them because it's not grace.
    I say that many of the words of Jesus Christ do not apply to the Gentiles because Scripture says that He was a minister to the Jews. Only on a couple of occasions did Jesus interact with non-Jewish people.

    Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . . that means that his words were God's Words, says:

    "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers" (Romans 15:8).

    Paul was the minister to the Gentiles . . .

    "That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost" (Romans 15:16).

    Jesus came to the Jews, His own people, to present to them the kingdom of Messiah. They rejected Him. But through their blindness, the Gentiles were blessed to receive salvation - but only on God's terms. And our instructions are found in the epistles of Paul where he reveals to the church the mysteries of God.

  10. #10

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by BaptistBibleBeliever View Post
    I say that many of the words of Jesus Christ do not apply to the Gentiles because Scripture says that He was a minister to the Jews. Only on a couple of occasions did Jesus interact with non-Jewish people.

    Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . . that means that his words were God's Words, says:

    "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers" (Romans 15:8).

    Paul was the minister to the Gentiles . . .

    "That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost" (Romans 15:16).

    Jesus came to the Jews, His own people, to present to them the kingdom of Messiah. They rejected Him. But through their blindness, the Gentiles were blessed to receive salvation - but only on God's terms. And our instructions are found in the epistles of Paul where he reveals to the church the mysteries of God.

    yes, many teach many things, many reasons why his words aren't meant for Christians......your missing the great commission, Paul's doctrine is no different from any other apostles doctrine, all of them are speaking the gospel to the world. When someone is teaching people what you are saying there, which you have most likely learned from Paul Ellis, or Joseph prince, it serves to take someone's faith away from the salvation sent to all men, spoken forth by Jesus Christ, and sent forth to all nations of the earth. Look at the commission.

    “And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
    **Matthew‬ *28:18-20‬ *KJV‬‬

    “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
    **Mark‬ *16:15-16‬ *KJV‬‬


    to teach that the gospel changed somehow from Jew to gentile, is false, and is taught subtly for the purpose of taking me s hearts away from the lords word. Everything he taught before his death from when he began preaching, is the gospel including his death and resurrection which he taught beforehand.

    after his resurrection, he then said plainly go teach the world the same things , whatsoever I taught you, teach them to observe the same teachings.....

    do you realize Luke was a consistant companion in Paul's ministry? You know the author of the book of acts, and the gospel of Luke a gentile physician? Look at the first paragraph in his gospel. Paul doesn't remove anything Jesus said, it's why what he writes is found in the gospel. and why he makes this statement

    “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.”
    **1 Timothy‬ *6:3-5‬ *KJV‬‬


    Paul teaches directly from Jesus words in the gospel, he is expounding understanding, and reassuring people. Lastly the epistles are not what founded a single church, they are letters sent back to the churches some which Paul established with barnabus and Luke, others which Peter founded like the Roman church. Notice Paul had never been to Rome after his conversion, he wrote his letter to them knowing he would be delivered to Rome because of his imprisonement in Jerusalem.

    the epistles do not found the church, the gospel does. The epistles are written to encourage, reprimand, teach, exhort, correct, remind, comfort .....the churches established firmly in the gospel of the kingdom of God. Your right many of the Jews rejected the gospel when Jesus came forth, the same gospel they rejected, was then sent to all men....it's been written from Moses forward, really from Abraham forward that through Israel, the gospel would be preached to all people.

    The idea that Jesus words are changed, removed, not for Christians, is really the only way to get off track, it's why people have so many reasons .....why they don't apply to the believer. Consider the o.p. And the fact that Paul makes no distinction between Jew and gentile. Paul is most assuredly, not above any apostle, he is certainly no ones lord and King, he certainly does not teach anything other than the gospel of the kingdom of God.

  11. #11

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    yes, many teach many things, many reasons why his words aren't meant for Christians......your missing the great commission, Paul's doctrine is no different from any other apostles doctrine, all of them are speaking the gospel to the world. When someone is teaching people what you are saying there, which you have most likely learned from Paul Ellis, or Joseph prince, it serves to take someone's faith away from the salvation sent to all men, spoken forth by Jesus Christ, and sent forth to all nations of the earth. Look at the commission.

    “And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
    **Matthew‬ *28:18-20‬ *KJV‬‬

    “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
    **Mark‬ *16:15-16‬ *KJV‬‬


    to teach that the gospel changed somehow from Jew to gentile, is false, and is taught subtly for the purpose of taking me s hearts away from the lords word. Everything he taught before his death from when he began preaching, is the gospel including his death and resurrection which he taught beforehand.

    after his resurrection, he then said plainly go teach the world the same things , whatsoever I taught you, teach them to observe the same teachings.....

    do you realize Luke was a consistant companion in Paul's ministry? You know the author of the book of acts, and the gospel of Luke a gentile physician? Look at the first paragraph in his gospel. Paul doesn't remove anything Jesus said, it's why what he writes is found in the gospel. and why he makes this statement

    “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.”
    **1 Timothy‬ *6:3-5‬ *KJV‬‬


    Paul teaches directly from Jesus words in the gospel, he is expounding understanding, and reassuring people. Lastly the epistles are not what founded a single church, they are letters sent back to the churches some which Paul established with barnabus and Luke, others which Peter founded like the Roman church. Notice Paul had never been to Rome after his conversion, he wrote his letter to them knowing he would be delivered to Rome because of his imprisonement in Jerusalem.

    the epistles do not found the church, the gospel does. The epistles are written to encourage, reprimand, teach, exhort, correct, remind, comfort .....the churches established firmly in the gospel of the kingdom of God. Your right many of the Jews rejected the gospel when Jesus came forth, the same gospel they rejected, was then sent to all men....it's been written from Moses forward, really from Abraham forward that through Israel, the gospel would be preached to all people.

    The idea that Jesus words are changed, removed, not for Christians, is really the only way to get off track, it's why people have so many reasons .....why they don't apply to the believer. Consider the o.p. And the fact that Paul makes no distinction between Jew and gentile. Paul is most assuredly, not above any apostle, he is certainly no ones lord and King, he certainly does not teach anything other than the gospel of the kingdom of God.
    You need to quit telling me that I am learning my doctrine from men I have never even heard of. It is wrong and it is offensive.

    Please tell me how this verse applies to the Church?

    "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Matthew 24:13).

    It is the words of Jesus . . .

  12. #12

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    In the gospel, After Jesus was resurrected......given to the disciples before Paul's conversion to the faith of Christ....Two disciples walking along the road talking of what had happened to Jesus.....

    ....And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.....

    Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


    Afterwards they go to the disciples and tell them.....Jesus at this point appears himself in front of them all....

    .....And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

    And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

    And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.”
    **Luke‬ *24:6-8, 15-17, 19-20, 25-27, 33-34, 44-49, 51‬ *KJV‬‬


    Pauls testimony before Agrippa regarding what he taught .....


    "Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance....
    *

    ..Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
    **Acts‬ *26:19-23‬ *KJV‬‬

    One example of Isaiah the prophet speaking concerning the light which was to come for both Jew and gentile....

    that Christ should suffer, and rise from the dead...

    “Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

    But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    And
    he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”
    **Isaiah‬ *53:1, 5-6, 9-12‬ *KJV‬‬


    that he would show light to the Gentiles as well as Israel....

    “And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.”
    **Isaiah‬ *49:6‬ *KJ

    what exactly the light means....

    Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
    **Isaiah‬ *51:1-2, 4-5‬ *KJV‬‬

    ‬‬“And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. .......Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

    Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts,
    which dwelleth in mount Zion.”
    **Isaiah‬ *8:14-16, 18‬ *KJV‬ see the reference in Hebrews....

    Jesus.....

    “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
    **John‬ *3:19-21‬ *KJV‬‬

    Now more regarding the same from Jesus....

    “Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

    ....I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

    ....He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a
    commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
    **John‬ *12:35-36, 46, 48-50‬ *KJV‬‬

    Paul expounding upon this , regarding the deeds of those in darkness which keeps them from coming into the light....regarding walking as children of the light....and the purpose of the light to make things manifest and reprove them....

    “But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

    For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in
    the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

    For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth ) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

    For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.”
    **Ephesians‬ *5:3-14‬ *KJV‬‬

    John further regarding the same light, walking Therin in order to be cleansed from all unrighteousness....and about not acknowledging our sins in the light that is able to cleanse them and forgive them....

    “This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
    **1 John‬ *1:5-10‬ *KJV



    the epistles are all concerning the one true gospel, the only Gospel ever promised by God, Paul's ministry is carrying the same light before the Jew and gentile , in Christ are all mysteries revealed, of which Paul is only a steward, certainly not offering a contrary gospel or judgement to gentile or Jew, the great mystery, that was always written throughout the prophets, was that both Jew and gentile would be one people under the messiah Christ Jesus.

    we need the light because it is what redeems a sinners heart to that of a saint through making manifest the councils and thoughts of the heart. It's a call to repentance that will last.

  13. #13

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by BaptistBibleBeliever View Post
    You need to quit telling me that I am learning my doctrine from men I have never even heard of. It is wrong and it is offensive.

    Please tell me how this verse applies to the Church?

    "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Matthew 24:13).

    It is the words of Jesus . . .

    if you wish to follow a doctrine that excludes the word of the lord.....be my guest. I'm certainly not your authority. And are you seriously asking how the words of Christ, apply to the church of Christ?

  14. #14

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    if you wish to follow a doctrine that excludes the word of the lord.....be my guest. I'm certainly not your authority. And are you seriously asking how the words of Christ, apply to the church of Christ?
    >>>Quote Originally Posted by BaptistBibleBeliever View Post

    Please tell me how this verse applies to the Church?

    "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Matthew 24:13).

    It is the words of Jesus . . .<<<

    Yes I am . . . please answer the question that I asked you.

  15. #15

    Re: Faith comets by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

    The Timothy passage in your Post #10 (1 Timothy 6:3-5) is prefaced (per overall context) by this verse:

    1 Timothy 1:4 -

    "nor to give heed to myths and endless genealogies, which bring speculations rather than God's stewardship [G3622 - oikonomian (9x)], which is in faith."


    … and that "G3622" word, you may recall, Jesus used when speaking in Luke 16:2,3,4 (and its context, verse 1 thru verse 18, if not through the end of the whole chapter [where, in verse 14, it says "the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided Him..." and verse 15's "And He said unto them..." (and what He said to them... "that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.")]).

    Perhaps a refresher on that context is in order? (note, in case it is not clear, I am not endeavoring to say that the OP is "covetous" or a "Pharisee" or any thing like that, I'm merely pointing out the usage of this word used in Timothy).



    P.S. I'd meant to say that this (what I've put in this post) ^ goes along with the passages I already posted in Post #4 of this thread.

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