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Thread: the wound of the beast

  1. #286
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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Yes I have studied that and of course the "no Jew or Gentile is spiritual as in true Israel which is the line of the faithful before and after the cross from Adam until today

    When it says that Israel is blinded it isn't saying that God is stopping them from turning to Him it is saying that God is not drawing them to Him just like when God hardened Pharaohs heart God didn't make him sin God held back from him. Gods will is for all men to repent and turn to Him all of the time.

    The proof of that is Christian Jews today because as Jesus said in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus "the Jews have the law and the prophets" and "they won't believe even if someone rises from the dead". The law and the prophets is all that they need as some will realize that Jesus is the Messiah but some won't. Jesus was also predicting His death and resurrection and most still didn't believe.

    How else could we explain converting Jews today?
    God fave is the facts, they are BLINDED IN PART because they rejected Christ, it is their culture, they detest other Jews who believe in Jesus, after the Church is Raptured as in like maybe a billion people or maybe 200 Million people (who knows) die on earth, the Jews will kind of put it together that something is up, even though they will be told its a Plague, they will wonder why it only hit Christians, then God will send the Two-witnesses back to preach to the Jews and 1/3 REPENT BEFORE the Day of the Lord.

    They are Blinded because of their trust in THE LAW over their trust in THE PROMISE and that has always been their fault line so to speak.

    So any Jew CAN REPENT but few do, their trust in THE LAW has blinded them to the need for THE PROMISE (Jesus Christ).

    So I think you are looking at it in a reverse type angle, it is not that the Jews are blinded or even hardened by God per se, it is that they have trusted in a false god, THE LAW of Justification, a LAW that God only gave them 430 years after the promise because of their Rebellion/Sin. The Laws were not needed or God would have gave them to Abraham, all that is needed is FAITH and OBEDIENCE.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Yes I have studied that and of course the "no Jew or Gentile is spiritual as in true Israel which is the line of the faithful before and after the cross from Adam until today

    When it says that Israel is blinded it isn't saying that God is stopping them from turning to Him it is saying that God is not drawing them to Him just like when God hardened Pharaohs heart God didn't make him sin God held back from him. Gods will is for all men to repent and turn to Him all of the time.

    The proof of that is Christian Jews today because as Jesus said in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus "the Jews have the law and the prophets" and "they won't believe even if someone rises from the dead". The law and the prophets is all that they need as some will realize that Jesus is the Messiah but some won't. Jesus was also predicting His death and resurrection and most still didn't believe.

    How else could we explain converting Jews today?
    God fave is the facts, they are BLINDED IN PART because they rejected Christ, it is their culture, they detest other Jews who believe in Jesus, after the Church is Raptured as in like maybe a billion people or maybe 200 Million people (who knows) die on earth, the Jews will kind of put it together that something is up, even though they will be told its a Plague, they will wonder why it only hit Christians, then God will send the Two-witnesses back to preach to the Jews and 1/3 REPENT BEFORE the Day of the Lord.

    They are Blinded because of their trust in THE LAW over their trust in THE PROMISE and that has always been their fault line so to speak.

    So any Jew CAN REPENT but few do, their trust in THE LAW has blinded them to the need for THE PROMISE (Jesus Christ).

    So I think you are looking at it in a reverse type angle, it is not that the Jews are blinded or even hardened by God per se, it is that they have trusted in a false god, THE LAW of Justification, a LAW that God only gave them 430 years after the promise because of their Rebellion/Sin. The Laws were not needed or God would have gave them to Abraham, all that is needed is FAITH and OBEDIENCE.

  2. #287
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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    The mistake that is made is to think that the 3 horns spoken here:

    *[[Dan 7:8]] KJV* I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.


    Is to equate that with the 3 kings here:

    *[[Dan 7:24]] KJV* And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.*[[Dan 7:24]] KJV* And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

    The little horn rises AMONG the 10 horns where 3 horns fall "before" him,

    *[[Dan 7:20]] KJV* And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and BEFORE whom three fell; even of that HORN that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

    But the difference is the one who is said to be another who rises AFTER the 10 horns and is said to subdue 3 KINGS, and not horns. This is referring to the first 3 kings (from the earth). Without the details that John provides us in Rev 13, the 3 horns and 3 kings blur into meaning the same thing. But John shows us that the beast from the sees is the same as the little horn that dies and his body given to the burning flame, that rules the beast (kingdom) as one of the 7 heads among 10 kingdoms that has the deadly wound and recovers. The one that arises after the 10 kings is the beast from the earth, THE FOURTH KING and the 4th KINGDOM. What is not grasped is that the lamb with 2 horns in Rev 13 (the beast from the earth) is the same as the Ram with 2 horns when he rises AFTER the demise of the little horn, reigning in his stead. The territory that the little horn reigns over is described as that of the lion, bear, and leopard. I.e., the combined territories of Babylon, MedoPersia, and Greece, which essentially is that of the Roman Empire. This is also equivalent to the "divided" part of the 4th kingdom of Daniel 2. But the wounded head is that of the little horn.

    Blessings
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    It says THREE HORNS were plucked up meaning three of the first 10 Horns who freely gave their power unto the Beast must therefore try to back out and are thus dethroned and killed. It has nothing to do with the first three Beasts. The First Four Beasts ceased being Beasts long ago.

    The False Prophet is a High Priest who BEASTS over Religion after the Harlot (Rev. 17:16) is killed off.

  3. #288
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    Re: the wound of the beast

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    It says THREE HORNS were plucked up meaning three of the first 10 Horns
    It does not say of the 10 horns wherein the three were plucked. It does says from the horns which would lead one to think from the 10 horns. But a couple of problems with that interpretation.

    1. Notice the ten horns ALL intact until the very end Rev 17.

    16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

    2. The scripture does described "three" whom lose power.

    8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    12 As concerning the rest of the beasts (lion, bear, leopard), they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

    The three are the lion, bear, leopard. Thus they are the "first horns" ie kings plucked.

  4. #289
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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Sorry, but it says that the little horn rises AMONG the 10 horns, and that he will die (body is given to the burning flame). His death coincides with the time that the kingdom is given to the saints. And at the death of the little horn, the beast, aka, that kingdom, will be destroyed, Dan 9:11. Destroyed is the word, Abad, meaning perdition. And then Daniel tells us that "another" shall arise AFTER the ten kings. The little horn rises AMONG the 10 horns, Dan 9:8, but this another is the one who rises AFTER the 10 kings. Not the same person/being. This one who comes after is the one who will bring his kingdom to perdition/ destruction. The one who does this is the beast from the earth, aka the false prophet. At the time of John writing revelation, (ch.17 in re), he makes these 3 points about the beast (his kingdom).
    1. It is this kingdom of 10 horns (also inferred from Damien 7),
    And,
    2. The beast (currently) IS NOT.
    3. He will go into perdition/ destruction.

    The revival/ resurrecting of his kingdom will not take place UNTIL the death of the little horn. The saints will be responsible for "consuming" the kingdom of the beast:

    *[[Dan 7:26]] KJV* But the judgment shall sit, and they [the saints] shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy [Abad] it unto the end.
    The territory of the kingdom of the little horn will equate to the kingdom of Rome, but his kingdom (the beast) in actuality, only constitutes the kingdom of Media-Persia. This is the Ram with two horns found in Daniel 8. And it is the same as the beast from the earth found in Rev. 13, the Lamb with two horns. This is also the basis for John yelling us that the basis of the 4th seal is "with the beasts of the earth". These 4 beasts from the earth of Daniel 7 are one and the same. God will bring restoration to Israel, by these same four beasts/ kingdoms. You would do well to adjust your thinking likewise.

    Blessings
    The PuP

    Sorry, but it says that the little horn rises AMONG the 10 horns, and that he will die (body is given to the burning flame). His death coincides with the time that the kingdom is given to the saints. And at the death of the little horn, the beast, aka, that kingdom, will be destroyed, Dan 9:11. Destroyed is the word, Abad, meaning perdition. And then Daniel tells us that "another" shall arise AFTER the ten kings. The little horn rises AMONG the 10 horns, Dan 9:8, but this another is the one who rises AFTER the 10 kings. Not the same person/being. This one who comes after is the one who will bring his kingdom to perdition/ destruction. The one who does this is the beast from the earth, aka the false prophet. At the time of John writing revelation, (ch.17 in re), he makes these 3 points about the beast (his kingdom).
    1. It is this kingdom of 10 horns (also inferred from Damien 7),
    And,
    2. The beast (currently) IS NOT.
    3. He will go into perdition/ destruction.

    The revival/ resurrecting of his kingdom will not take place UNTIL the death of the little horn. The saints will be responsible for "consuming" the kingdom of the beast:

    *[[Dan 7:26]] KJV* But the judgment shall sit, and they [the saints] shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy [Abad] it unto the end.
    The territory of the kingdom of the little horn will equate to the kingdom of Rome, but his kingdom (the beast) in actuality, only constitutes the kingdom of Media-Persia. This is the Ram with two horns found in Daniel 8. And it is the same as the beast from the earth found in Rev. 13, the Lamb with two horns. This is also the basis for John yelling us that the basis of the 4th seal is "with the beasts of the earth". These 4 beasts from the earth of Daniel 7 are one and the same. God will bring restoration to Israel, by these same four beasts/ kingdoms. You would do well to adjust your thinking likewise.

    Blessings
    The PuP

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    [QUOTE=ross3421;3483565]

    It does not say of the 10 horns wherein the three were plucked. It does says from the horns which would lead one to think from the 10 horns. But a couple of problems with that interpretation.

    1. Notice the ten horns ALL intact until the very end Rev 17.

    16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

    2. The scripture does described "three" whom lose power.

    8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    12 As concerning the rest of the beasts (lion, bear, leopard), they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

    The three are the lion, bear, leopard. Thus they are the "first horns" ie kings plucked.
    Rev. 17 doesn't give us a detail of what goes on via the 10 Kings, it just says they give their power unto the Beast and rule with him ONE HOUR (Short time). The absence of detail is that the absence of truth per se. It speaks of the 10 Horns in Daniel and then tells us 3 are plucked out, meaning their rule is taken away.

    Rev. 17:16 happens when they first come to power, to is the Kings in league with the Beast destroying All False Religion, and thus they destroy Islam and all religions right off the bat of course, how else can the Beast be WORSHIPED as the ONLY GOD ?

    Dan. 7:12 is speaking about the other Beasts LIVES...........The Last Beast (Little Horn) will be cast straight into hell see verse 11, but the OTHER BEASTS or the rest of the Beasts as verse 12 says, (Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome) lost their DOMINION but yet they all LIVED are was around for a season and a time. And they were, Babylon was where Alexander the Great made his abode and died there, Persia is Iran today, Greece is Greece today and of course Rome is Italy today. So they all YET LIVED for a time and a season, WHEREAS the last Beast is cast straight into hell.

    [QUOTE=ross3421;3483565]

    It does not say of the 10 horns wherein the three were plucked. It does says from the horns which would lead one to think from the 10 horns. But a couple of problems with that interpretation.

    1. Notice the ten horns ALL intact until the very end Rev 17.

    16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

    2. The scripture does described "three" whom lose power.

    8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    12 As concerning the rest of the beasts (lion, bear, leopard), they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

    The three are the lion, bear, leopard. Thus they are the "first horns" ie kings plucked.
    Rev. 17 doesn't give us a detail of what goes on via the 10 Kings, it just says they give their power unto the Beast and rule with him ONE HOUR (Short time). The absence of detail is that the absence of truth per se. It speaks of the 10 Horns in Daniel and then tells us 3 are plucked out, meaning their rule is taken away.

    Rev. 17:16 happens when they first come to power, to is the Kings in league with the Beast destroying All False Religion, and thus they destroy Islam and all religions right off the bat of course, how else can the Beast be WORSHIPED as the ONLY GOD ?

    Dan. 7:12 is speaking about the other Beasts LIVES...........The Last Beast (Little Horn) will be cast straight into hell see verse 11, but the OTHER BEASTS or the rest of the Beasts as verse 12 says, (Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome) lost their DOMINION but yet they all LIVED are was around for a season and a time. And they were, Babylon was where Alexander the Great made his abode and died there, Persia is Iran today, Greece is Greece today and of course Rome is Italy today. So they all YET LIVED for a time and a season, WHEREAS the last Beast is cast straight into hell.

  6. #291
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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    God fave is the facts, they are BLINDED IN PART because they rejected Christ, it is their culture, they detest other Jews who believe in Jesus, after the Church is Raptured as in like maybe a billion people or maybe 200 Million people (who knows) die on earth, the Jews will kind of put it together that something is up, even though they will be told its a Plague, they will wonder why it only hit Christians, then God will send the Two-witnesses back to preach to the Jews and 1/3 REPENT BEFORE the Day of the Lord.

    They are Blinded because of their trust in THE LAW over their trust in THE PROMISE and that has always been their fault line so to speak.

    So any Jew CAN REPENT but few do, their trust in THE LAW has blinded them to the need for THE PROMISE (Jesus Christ).

    So I think you are looking at it in a reverse type angle, it is not that the Jews are blinded or even hardened by God per se, it is that they have trusted in a false god, THE LAW of Justification, a LAW that God only gave them 430 years after the promise because of their Rebellion/Sin. The Laws were not needed or God would have gave them to Abraham, all that is needed is FAITH and OBEDIENCE.



    God fave is the facts, they are BLINDED IN PART because they rejected Christ, it is their culture, they detest other Jews who believe in Jesus, after the Church is Raptured as in like maybe a billion people or maybe 200 Million people (who knows) die on earth, the Jews will kind of put it together that something is up, even though they will be told its a Plague, they will wonder why it only hit Christians, then God will send the Two-witnesses back to preach to the Jews and 1/3 REPENT BEFORE the Day of the Lord.

    They are Blinded because of their trust in THE LAW over their trust in THE PROMISE and that has always been their fault line so to speak.

    So any Jew CAN REPENT but few do, their trust in THE LAW has blinded them to the need for THE PROMISE (Jesus Christ).

    So I think you are looking at it in a reverse type angle, it is not that the Jews are blinded or even hardened by God per se, it is that they have trusted in a false god, THE LAW of Justification, a LAW that God only gave them 430 years after the promise because of their Rebellion/Sin. The Laws were not needed or God would have gave them to Abraham, all that is needed is FAITH and OBEDIENCE.
    You are right in what blinds the Jews but they won't get any special treatment or special signs as Jesus taught below

    Luke 16:19-31
    19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

    22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

    25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

    27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

    29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

    30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

    31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

    Above Abraham tells the rich man that all his brothers need and will get is the law and the prophets and that they won't believe even if Jesus rises from the dead. You see the law and the prophets pointed to Jesus all through the OT thus they are the two witnesses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    God fave is the facts, they are BLINDED IN PART because they rejected Christ, it is their culture, they detest other Jews who believe in Jesus, after the Church is Raptured as in like maybe a billion people or maybe 200 Million people (who knows) die on earth, the Jews will kind of put it together that something is up, even though they will be told its a Plague, they will wonder why it only hit Christians, then God will send the Two-witnesses back to preach to the Jews and 1/3 REPENT BEFORE the Day of the Lord.

    They are Blinded because of their trust in THE LAW over their trust in THE PROMISE and that has always been their fault line so to speak.

    So any Jew CAN REPENT but few do, their trust in THE LAW has blinded them to the need for THE PROMISE (Jesus Christ).

    So I think you are looking at it in a reverse type angle, it is not that the Jews are blinded or even hardened by God per se, it is that they have trusted in a false god, THE LAW of Justification, a LAW that God only gave them 430 years after the promise because of their Rebellion/Sin. The Laws were not needed or God would have gave them to Abraham, all that is needed is FAITH and OBEDIENCE.



    God fave is the facts, they are BLINDED IN PART because they rejected Christ, it is their culture, they detest other Jews who believe in Jesus, after the Church is Raptured as in like maybe a billion people or maybe 200 Million people (who knows) die on earth, the Jews will kind of put it together that something is up, even though they will be told its a Plague, they will wonder why it only hit Christians, then God will send the Two-witnesses back to preach to the Jews and 1/3 REPENT BEFORE the Day of the Lord.

    They are Blinded because of their trust in THE LAW over their trust in THE PROMISE and that has always been their fault line so to speak.

    So any Jew CAN REPENT but few do, their trust in THE LAW has blinded them to the need for THE PROMISE (Jesus Christ).

    So I think you are looking at it in a reverse type angle, it is not that the Jews are blinded or even hardened by God per se, it is that they have trusted in a false god, THE LAW of Justification, a LAW that God only gave them 430 years after the promise because of their Rebellion/Sin. The Laws were not needed or God would have gave them to Abraham, all that is needed is FAITH and OBEDIENCE.
    You are right in what blinds the Jews but they won't get any special treatment or special signs as Jesus taught below

    Luke 16:19-31
    19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

    22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

    25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

    27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

    29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

    30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

    31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

    Above Abraham tells the rich man that all his brothers need and will get is the law and the prophets and that they won't believe even if Jesus rises from the dead. You see the law and the prophets pointed to Jesus all through the OT thus they are the two witnesses.

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    You are right in what blinds the Jews but they won't get any special treatment or special signs as Jesus taught below

    Luke 16:19-31
    19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

    22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

    25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

    27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

    29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

    30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

    31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

    Above Abraham tells the rich man that all his brothers need and will get is the law and the prophets and that they won't believe even if Jesus rises from the dead. You see the law and the prophets pointed to Jesus all through the OT thus they are the two witnesses.



    You are right in what blinds the Jews but they won't get any special treatment or special signs as Jesus taught below

    Luke 16:19-31
    19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

    22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

    25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

    27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

    29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

    30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

    31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

    Above Abraham tells the rich man that all his brothers need and will get is the law and the prophets and that they won't believe even if Jesus rises from the dead. You see the law and the prophets pointed to Jesus all through the OT thus they are the two witnesses.
    They just get Elijah sent to preach Christ crucified and 1/3 repent. Jesus told the Disciple Elijah would be sent and Malachi 4:5-6 says so also.

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    They just get Elijah sent to preach Christ crucified and 1/3 repent. Jesus told the Disciple Elijah would be sent and Malachi 4:5-6 says so also.
    Elijah did come through John the Baptist

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    They just get Elijah sent to preach Christ crucified and 1/3 repent. Jesus told the Disciple Elijah would be sent and Malachi 4:5-6 says so also.

    Matthew 17:11-13
    11Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming [b]first and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Matthew 17:11-13
    11Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming [b]first and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.
    I just so happened to have replied to someone on this very subject elsewhere so I will import it via a Copy & Paste job !!

    Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

    When Jesus came down from the transfiguration on the mount the disciples asked Jesus this:

    Matt. 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

    Jesus isn't saying Elijah has already come in this passage, this is how people confuse scriptures, Jesus is saying that John the Baptist did the EXACT SAME THING that Elijah will do when he returns, preach repent and follow Christ Jesus, but many people think he's saying Elijah has already come, that is just not true, Jesus is saying Elijah WILL COME AND RESTORE ALL THINGS (Like Malachi 4:5-6 says) in the End Times, but then he says, hey guys, we had a man named John the Baptist, he did the same thing and was killed for it !! He's just giving John a shout out for who he was !! Saying John did the exact same thing Elijah is going to do but Israel as a whole rejected his message.

    Luke ch. 1 tells us who John was.

    Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

    17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

    So the Angel tells Zacharias that John will go forth in the SPIRIT & POWER of Elijah, but he was not Elijah. So Elijah will indeed show up as one of the Two-witnesses Before the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord (First Seal Event).

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Matthew 17:11-13
    11Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming [b]first and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.
    I just so happened to have replied to someone on this very subject elsewhere so I will import it via a Copy & Paste job !!

    Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

    When Jesus came down from the transfiguration on the mount the disciples asked Jesus this:

    Matt. 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

    Jesus isn't saying Elijah has already come in this passage, this is how people confuse scriptures, Jesus is saying that John the Baptist did the EXACT SAME THING that Elijah will do when he returns, preach repent and follow Christ Jesus, but many people think he's saying Elijah has already come, that is just not true, Jesus is saying Elijah WILL COME AND RESTORE ALL THINGS (Like Malachi 4:5-6 says) in the End Times, but then he says, hey guys, we had a man named John the Baptist, he did the same thing and was killed for it !! He's just giving John a shout out for who he was !! Saying John did the exact same thing Elijah is going to do but Israel as a whole rejected his message.

    Luke ch. 1 tells us who John was.

    Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

    17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

    So the Angel tells Zacharias that John will go forth in the SPIRIT & POWER of Elijah, but he was not Elijah. So Elijah will indeed show up as one of the Two-witnesses Before the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord (First Seal Event).

  11. #296
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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I just so happened to have replied to someone on this very subject elsewhere so I will import it via a Copy & Paste job !!

    Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

    When Jesus came down from the transfiguration on the mount the disciples asked Jesus this:

    Matt. 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

    Jesus isn't saying Elijah has already come in this passage, this is how people confuse scriptures, Jesus is saying that John the Baptist did the EXACT SAME THING that Elijah will do when he returns, preach repent and follow Christ Jesus, but many people think he's saying Elijah has already come, that is just not true, Jesus is saying Elijah WILL COME AND RESTORE ALL THINGS (Like Malachi 4:5-6 says) in the End Times, but then he says, hey guys, we had a man named John the Baptist, he did the same thing and was killed for it !! He's just giving John a shout out for who he was !! Saying John did the exact same thing Elijah is going to do but Israel as a whole rejected his message.

    Luke ch. 1 tells us who John was.

    Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

    17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

    So the Angel tells Zacharias that John will go forth in the SPIRIT & POWER of Elijah, but he was not Elijah. So Elijah will indeed show up as one of the Two-witnesses Before the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord (First Seal Event).



    I just so happened to have replied to someone on this very subject elsewhere so I will import it via a Copy & Paste job !!

    Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

    When Jesus came down from the transfiguration on the mount the disciples asked Jesus this:

    Matt. 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

    Jesus isn't saying Elijah has already come in this passage, this is how people confuse scriptures, Jesus is saying that John the Baptist did the EXACT SAME THING that Elijah will do when he returns, preach repent and follow Christ Jesus, but many people think he's saying Elijah has already come, that is just not true, Jesus is saying Elijah WILL COME AND RESTORE ALL THINGS (Like Malachi 4:5-6 says) in the End Times, but then he says, hey guys, we had a man named John the Baptist, he did the same thing and was killed for it !! He's just giving John a shout out for who he was !! Saying John did the exact same thing Elijah is going to do but Israel as a whole rejected his message.

    Luke ch. 1 tells us who John was.

    Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

    17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

    So the Angel tells Zacharias that John will go forth in the SPIRIT & POWER of Elijah, but he was not Elijah. So Elijah will indeed show up as one of the Two-witnesses Before the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord (First Seal Event).
    Sorry but I have no idea how you get that out of what Jesus said. Jesus actually said "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed."

  12. #297
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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Sorry but I have no idea how you get that out of what Jesus said. Jesus actually said "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed."
    Exactly. John himself testified that he was not the Christ, but the one Elijah who was prophesied to prepare the way. Prepare it he did.
    If you are willing to accept it, he has come already.
    We are closer to the consummation and restoration of all things , than we are to a preparation of the way of the Lord.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  13. #298
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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I just so happened to have replied to someone on this very subject elsewhere so I will import it via a Copy & Paste job !!

    Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

    When Jesus came down from the transfiguration on the mount the disciples asked Jesus this:

    Matt. 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

    Jesus isn't saying Elijah has already come in this passage, this is how people confuse scriptures, Jesus is saying that John the Baptist did the EXACT SAME THING that Elijah will do when he returns, preach repent and follow Christ Jesus, but many people think he's saying Elijah has already come, that is just not true, Jesus is saying Elijah WILL COME AND RESTORE ALL THINGS (Like Malachi 4:5-6 says) in the End Times, but then he says, hey guys, we had a man named John the Baptist, he did the same thing and was killed for it !! He's just giving John a shout out for who he was !! Saying John did the exact same thing Elijah is going to do but Israel as a whole rejected his message.

    Luke ch. 1 tells us who John was.

    Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

    17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

    So the Angel tells Zacharias that John will go forth in the SPIRIT & POWER of Elijah, but he was not Elijah. So Elijah will indeed show up as one of the Two-witnesses Before the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord (First Seal Event).



    I just so happened to have replied to someone on this very subject elsewhere so I will import it via a Copy & Paste job !!

    Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

    When Jesus came down from the transfiguration on the mount the disciples asked Jesus this:

    Matt. 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

    Jesus isn't saying Elijah has already come in this passage, this is how people confuse scriptures, Jesus is saying that John the Baptist did the EXACT SAME THING that Elijah will do when he returns, preach repent and follow Christ Jesus, but many people think he's saying Elijah has already come, that is just not true, Jesus is saying Elijah WILL COME AND RESTORE ALL THINGS (Like Malachi 4:5-6 says) in the End Times, but then he says, hey guys, we had a man named John the Baptist, he did the same thing and was killed for it !! He's just giving John a shout out for who he was !! Saying John did the exact same thing Elijah is going to do but Israel as a whole rejected his message.

    Luke ch. 1 tells us who John was.

    Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

    17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

    So the Angel tells Zacharias that John will go forth in the SPIRIT & POWER of Elijah, but he was not Elijah. So Elijah will indeed show up as one of the Two-witnesses Before the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord (First Seal Event).
    This is a study I did on the two witnesses a while ago


    I believe the two witnesses to be symbolic of the prophets and the law which point to Jesus. Why does God call them the two witnesses? Why the term witness? That means that they had to witness something. Is it because they witnesses and pointed to Jesus?

    It took two witnesses to witness a testimony and two witnesses to witness a crime. Could the testimony be about who Jesus is and the crime be what Israel was guilty of?

    Mosses represents the law and like the witnesses turned water into blood and struck the earth with all types of plagues. Elijah represents the prophets and like the witnesses he could shut the sky up so that it couldn’t rain and had fire devour his enemies. These two are the two olive trees and are also the two golden lamp stands the two anointed ones that stand before the lord. This is referred to in Zechariah chapter 4 and Jesus is also the anointed one.

    Could the fire out of there mouths be the word that has power to condemn and convict. They are also dressed in sackcloth which represents repentance. Jews reading this would understand the meanings.

    They mirror Jesus’ life as they also have a 3 ˝ year ministry and can’t be killed until there time has come. They are killed by the beast (which I believe is a demon behind the power of Rome) and Rome also killed Jesus. They are killed in Jerusalem just like Jesus was. They are also dead for 3 ˝ days like Jesus was and they are raised back to life and go up to heaven. Both Jesus and the two witnesses had earthquakes around the time of there death and there was also an earthquake when Jesus rose back to life.

    Why is it 7000 people that died in the earthquake? Why the number 7000? Is it because 7 is the number of completeness and perfection to God and 1000 means many. It also says in Revelation 11:13 that people gave glory to God after the earthquake just like some people realized that Jesus was the son of God after the earthquake when Jesus died.

    Why is Jerusalem also called Sodom and Egypt in Revelation 11:8. Because Sodom represents the morality of Jerusalem and Egypt represents the oppression of Jerusalem.

    These two witnesses torment people with the word as there words torment and convicts people just like Jesus words did. The Pharisees were happy when Jesus died because he exposed them for who they were and they may of even gave gifts to one another when they celebrated His death.

    Revelation is the unveiling of Jesus and these two witnesses help to reveal to us who Jesus is.

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    They are also dead for 3 ˝ days like Jesus was and they are raised back to life and go up to heaven.
    Jesus was dead for 3 days not 3.5 days.

    Both Jesus and the two witnesses had earthquakes around the time of there death and there was also an earthquake when Jesus rose back to life.
    Actually there was an Earthquake after the two prophets went up to heaven but not when they died.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: the wound of the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Sorry but I have no idea how you get that out of what Jesus said. Jesus actually said "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed."
    That is why we have to use all the Scriptures not just one scripture somewhere. And it's the KJV to boot, some people just can't quite grasp the old English. Malachi Prophesies that Elijah comes just before the DOTL which we know is end times, Gabriel (I think it was Gabriel) tells John's father Zacharias that John will go forth in the POWER & SPIRIT of Elijah, then Jesus tells his Disciples they are correct, Elijah will indeed RESTORE ALL THINGS when he returns, well Israel was sacked in 70 AD, not restored and John was killed. His message was rejected, in that Jesus was rejected, so John did not restore Israel, but Elijah will, meaning he turns Israel back unto God.

    Jesus told them that Elijah had come IN ESSENCE, because John came in the SPIRIT & POWER of Elijah, preaching repentance but Israel basically refused to repent at that time.

    Jesus was saying that John did he exact same thing Elijah is going to do.............John was not Elijah. Jesus juxtaposed their mission on earth, that is all. He was just making a true statement, John did the exact same thing Elijah did, and somewhere he says of men there was not a greater man born than John the Baptist, so Jesus is saying John did his job to the fullest, just as well as Elijah did or Moses or any man before him, but he did not get Israel to repent, Elijah will, but John is as a great a human being as was ever born. I see Jesus as having compassion on his cousin John, he was indeed a great man of God. But he was not Elijah, no man is born of a woman twice, Elijah was taken, he transfigured on the Mount, he will return without being born again. Amen.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Sorry but I have no idea how you get that out of what Jesus said. Jesus actually said "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed."
    That is why we have to use all the Scriptures not just one scripture somewhere. And it's the KJV to boot, some people just can't quite grasp the old English. Malachi Prophesies that Elijah comes just before the DOTL which we know is end times, Gabriel (I think it was Gabriel) tells John's father Zacharias that John will go forth in the POWER & SPIRIT of Elijah, then Jesus tells his Disciples they are correct, Elijah will indeed RESTORE ALL THINGS when he returns, well Israel was sacked in 70 AD, not restored and John was killed. His message was rejected, in that Jesus was rejected, so John did not restore Israel, but Elijah will, meaning he turns Israel back unto God.

    Jesus told them that Elijah had come IN ESSENCE, because John came in the SPIRIT & POWER of Elijah, preaching repentance but Israel basically refused to repent at that time.

    Jesus was saying that John did he exact same thing Elijah is going to do.............John was not Elijah. Jesus juxtaposed their mission on earth, that is all. He was just making a true statement, John did the exact same thing Elijah did, and somewhere he says of men there was not a greater man born than John the Baptist, so Jesus is saying John did his job to the fullest, just as well as Elijah did or Moses or any man before him, but he did not get Israel to repent, Elijah will, but John is as a great a human being as was ever born. I see Jesus as having compassion on his cousin John, he was indeed a great man of God. But he was not Elijah, no man is born of a woman twice, Elijah was taken, he transfigured on the Mount, he will return without being born again. Amen.

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