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Thread: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

  1. #46
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    Re: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I am not going to debate you on what I have studied 30 years brother, every major prophecy guy understands this to be 1/4 of all men will be killed.
    Seems like the prophecy guys you read are UNABLE to read scripture:
    Rev 6:7 & 8 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

    It says that they were given AUTHORITY over a fourth, not that they necessarily exercised that authority.

    One possible explanation is that the fourth horse is NOT pale but green - as the Greek word translated everywhere else in the NT is green. And then some note that Green is the colour of Islam, and note that soon 1/4 of the world's population will be Islamic. They then note also that the symbol of Islam (apart from the crescent moon) is the sword.
    Where are the famines and pestilences etc. They are by far occurring in the Islamic world.

    So whether you agree with that explanation is immaterial, the question is where it is a POSSIBLE interpretation in terms of what AUTHORITY means?

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    Re: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by greenonions View Post
    That's an interesting description of the Trinity. Your first statement fails though. You said Jesus is fullness of God in essence but not in glory. Jesus has ALL of God's fullness in Him.

    Colossians 1:19 NIV For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,

    Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

    The high priests could only enter the Most Holy Place with blood and smoke from the incense. We enter by a new and living way. If we are forgiven, we are completely forgiven, including our bodies.
    What ? Jesus returned from Heaven and told Thomas to poke is fingers into his wounds, whereas he told Mary not to touch him because he had not yet ascended to the Father (to offer the perfect sacrifice). So you actually think the Father's glory could sit in the midst of mere men ? Come on !! You can't believe Jesus had the fullness of God's Glory with hm on earth !! YIKES !!

    Firstly people take translations and don't study them in depth, nor the root words, nor the actual meanings, and that is our jobs, we have computers now. So let's take the word FULLNESS in Col. 1:19 and see what it really means, because it can' mean God's FULL GLORY !!

    FULLNESS = #4138 πλήρωμα pleroma {play'-ro-mah}

    from G4137; TDNT - 6:298,867; n n
    —Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

    1) that which is (has been) filled
    1a) a ship inasmuch as it is filled (i.e. manned) with sailors,
    rowers, and soldiers
    1b) in the NT, the body of believers, as that which is filled with
    the presence, power, agency, riches of God and of Christ

    2) that which fills or with which a thing is filled
    2a) of those things which a ship is filled, freight and
    merchandise, sailors, oarsmen, soldiers
    2b) completeness or fullness of time
    3) fulness, abundance
    4) a fulfilling, keeping
    —Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

    From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period):—which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
    —Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

    #4138.
    πλη´ρωμα
    plērōma; from 4137; fullness, a filling up:—
    NASB - all...contains(1), fulfillment(2), full(2), fullness(10), patch(2).
    [B]—NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries

    So the verse seems to b saying God was PLEASED that Jesus had 100 PERCENT God in him or was full of God's Likeness, in that of course he had no sin. He was filled with God's Likeness, not with God's full Glory. Then next verse you cited kind of proves this also.

    The RADIANCE of the Sun is not the Sun, the brightness of the Father is not the Father's Glory brother. We can be in the presence of Sunlight, but if we were actually in the PRESENCE of the Sun above we would not survive that venture !!

    As per the High Priests, they can enter the Holy of Holies by sprinkling the blood on them, like we can with the blood of Jesus, but they could not open the Ark of the Covenant which contained God's Glory !! They could not do it.

    1 Samuel 6:19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

    Some bibles say 70 men, and they seem to think it was 50 Oxen of a man and 70 men. The thinking is it would take a lot of dumb people to keep easing up to the Ark of the Covenant to look in knowing everyone else had died. Whatever the case, if you looked into the Ark of the Covenant you most certainly died.

    Footnotes of some commentary on this:

    Why did so many die at Beth Shemesh? My Bible says 50,070 died!

    Some translations, including the NKJV, have the number of deaths as 50,070, and a footnote in the NIV says that most Hebrew manuscripts have 50,070 instead of 70. The NIV Study Bible explains their translation decision: "The additional 50,000 in most Hebrew manuscripts is apparently a copyist's mistake because it is added in an ungrammatical way (no conjunction)." The NKJV itself has a footnote stating that the verse could also be translated "He struck seventy men of the people and fifty oxen of a man." It is therefore rather doubtful that the actual number of deaths was 50,070.

    Even given that the number of deaths was seventy, that's still a large number, and all those people couldn't have been looking into a roughly 2-feet-by-4-feet container at the same time. However, one can picture a large group of people crowding around as someone moved the cover of the ark, and people passing by stopping to stare curiously.

    Jesus is not the Father brother, only the Father has the abundance of the Glory. Mere men can not look at that Glory.

    They may understand that, but the text does not force that understanding. You are right that God says the whole world will be made to worship the Beast, not 1/4. The 4th rider only has power over 1/4 of the earth because the 4th rider is not the Beast!
    What is the Seal about ? DEATH & THE GRAVE !! So the Fourth part references back to those living on earth, 1/4 of all mankind who are under the dictates of the Beast will die.

    About the sun darkening and the moon turning to blood, do you think this is AFTER the tribulation? I think it is after, and therefore Rev. 6:12b-17 is actually a thematic preview while the sealing of the 144,000 is the main event in the 6th seal.

    Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’"
    No, it happens during the "GREATEST TROUBLES EVER", the Day of the Lord is a DAY that God's Wrath begins, but researching all that happens on the "31 Mentions" of the Day of the Lord we can see it has to be a prolonged period of time, not one day. So the Day of the Lord's [Vengeance] starts with the First Seal and ends with 7th Vial/Jesus' Return.

    You left off the end of the verse, and the next verse which shows what happens IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation, Jesus Returns. After Tribulation.........then Jesus gives them the Joel 2 reference as per to what most of his disciples were familiar with, he didn't need to run down everything that was going to happen in the 70th week to make his point. Jesus told John in the book of Revelation everything that was eventually going to happen.

    But IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation Jesus will Return. That is a 3.5 year period.

    Thanks for the verse. It sounds like an analogy about the visibility of lightning, rather than stating that Jesus would literally come from the east (He might, but also He might not).
    Noooooo, read the whole passage, Jesus is telling the end time Jews......HEY, do not go unto the False Prophet and Anti-Christ who are preforming these Miracles, stay in your SAFE ZONE in Petra/Mountains where you are safe, because if you go unto them who are claiming to be me (Messiah Jesus) they will doubt kill you !! Then he says IF IT WERE POSSIBLE they would deceive the very elect but BEHOLD I have told you BEFORE as in BEFOREHAND: Meaning that Jesus is saying it is impossible to deceive those Jews who have repented, because they have by now (at that time) read Matthew 24 and understand where Jesus will be coming from.........THE EASTERN SKIES

    Matt. 24:25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

    27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

    THEN VERSES 29-31 show Jesus coming from the SKIES/CLOUDS............So Jesus has told them, I am coming from the Eastern Skies. Don't look for me in the Desert or Secret Chambers, that will NOT BE ME !! Thus the BEHOLD, I have told you before[hand].

    So you agree that the Marriage Supper follows the Battle of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 39? That would mean that Gog = anti-Christ, right?
    Not necessarily, but it could. Some people as I say, think the Psalm 83 war happens first, then the Ezekiel 38 war happens, and then later on Armageddon. There reasoning is the Ezekiel wars and Armageddon don't seem to be the same war. However I have yet to find the time to study that in depth, so I must refrain answering in full at this point in time. I am in flux betwixt my old thoughts and some new observations, further study and prayer is needed, and God has me doing other studies at the Moment, like the Throne Room of God studies I am in. I agree the Marriage Supper is after Armageddon, but as per the fowl reference, John used the Old Testament to pain pictures in Revelation, so it doesn't always have to be the same event, for instance John/Jesus used Daniel 5 (MENE, MENE, TEKEL) to paint the picture of the Harlot in Rev. 17.

    #3 and #4 about purple, scarlet, gold, precious stones, and pearls -- I found a better comparison verse.

    Revelation 17:4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls...
    Revelation 18:16 and cry out: “‘Woe! Woe to you, great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!

    You appealed to the authority of every major prophecy guy to try to dismiss my interpretation about 1/4 of the earth. Which major prophecy guy says that Babylon is not the Harlot? In Revelation 17, the Harlot is not killed off yet. It describes what will happen in the future, e.g. in Revelation 18.

    Revelation 17:16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

    By the way, I don't think the day of the Lord is 42 months. The darkening of the sun and moon is after the tribulation but before the day of the Lord.
    The preponderance of people saying something is usually a key that the Spirit is leading the Church in that direction. In other instances God locks things up like he told Daniel He was going to do, until He so desires that it be known. Satan also of course tries to confuses the masses on these issues because he knows men are vain, everyone want to be the be all and end all as per our DNA, we males are by nature competitive at everything, be it basketball pick-up games, chess or even understanding Prophetic Events.

    I had an epiphany on this about three years ago, or was it five, oh well, a while back, where Holy Spirit was like, you know why you are stuck in place running Ron ? You hear to much Men's Traditions, thus I can't teach you on Prophecy, which I called you unto.....those MEN didn't call you, I did, so put off all that thought process, I know it all, why not rely on me instead of Men's traditions !! So I put off all of my former thoughts and started asking God to show me the reality of everything.....We have 100's of theories and understandings about Babylon the Great or the Misnomer, Mystery Babylon, but God has ONE UNDERSTANDING !! My Blog from a few years back on Babylon below:

    Babylon, the Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained.

    I will explain what the Holy Spirit has shown me recently, I blogged a blog about eight months ago and in the blog I stated that Rev. 17:18 was speaking of Rome, (from my perspective) within 2 months the Holy Spirit had revealed to me who Babylon was, who the Beast is and who the Harlot is. My opinion is my opinion, I never allow it to supersede God's revelation, in other words I do not hold on to the pride of my opinion. If you want to know who the Harlot, Beast and Babylon is read on.

    To start with it is not a City, it is not Rome, Babylon proper, Jerusalem, NYC, it is not the RCC, Mecca or America. HINT: The Harlot and Babylon are two different entities. There is also NO MYSTERY BABYLON, I do not understand why we continue to say this, the Angel in 17:7 says this: Rev. 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

    Since the Angel says I will explain the Mystery of the woman (Harlot) and the Beast she rides (Seven Headed Beast) why do we insist that it is still a Mystery and why do we not understand that in Rev. 17:8-18 the Angel explains the Mystery unto us? Why do we miss that which is in plain site ? Mystery (Musterion) in the Greek means Secret by God's Silence in essence, once God reveals the Secret/Mystery, it is no longer a Mystery.

    The Seven Headed Beast is explained unto us first by the Angel, many people say it sits on Seven (7) hills, when the passage has nothing to do with hills or location, it is speaking of Seven Rulers who arise, we understand this because in the very next verse it speaks about the Seven Kings. So she sits on Seven Mountains which = Seven Rulers just like the Seven Heads = Seven Kingdoms. God reduced the KINGDOMS to KINGS because the Last Beast is a mere MAN and God wanted us to know that ( as in 10/20 to 5/10 to 1/2) Then the Angel says Five have fallen, ONE IS, and one is YET TO COME. This is where we have to use our intelligence a wee bit. Who are these Kings? Well we see in Rev. 13 when this Seven Headed Beast is described that the Beasts of Daniel are included, the Lion (Babylon) Bear (Persia) and Leopard (Greece) along with Rome of course as the fierce Beast (Wounded Head). So we are searching for the other three heads, who can they possibly be? What is the commonality of the Beasts/Heads that are mentioned? They each Conquered, Enslaved or Ruled Israel, that is what made them a "BEAST", so we need to go through history and find the other three common Beasts/Heads. Well lets see, after a little thought we should get this fairly easily, Egypt and Assyria Conquered/Enslaved Israel, and the Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings will, according to prophecy, Conquer Israel to become the Beast (Abomination of Desolation). So lets add this up, and see what the Angel has revealed to us.

    Five Kings have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece) ONE IS (Rome of course was Ruling Israel when John wrote Revelation) and one is YET TO COME (The Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings). We understand the Beast with Seven Heads now. This is why the USSR, China, the United States and even the British Empire or Ottoman Empire can not be a Beast or one of the Seven Heads, they never Conquered Israel, while Israel/Jewish Peoples were in the land. The Brits ruled Palestine as did the Ottoman Empire, but God dispersed Israel all over the World, this was why Ezekiel prophesied that Israel would be as "Dead Men's Bones" but we know those dead men's bones came Alive again in 1948, so after Rome, and up until 1948, there could be no Beast, because there was no Israel in the land. The Seven Headed Beast is revealed.

    Now what does the Angel say about the Harlot/Woman? Well firstly it says the Water she sat on is Peoples, Nations, Tongues and Multitudes. So right off the bat we understand she is Worldwide. A key is in Rev. 17:16 the Kings in league with the Beast destroy her, but why after all these years of being co-mingled together do they burn her and destroy her? Because she is ALL FALSE RELIGION, and the Anti-Christ right after the Abomination of Desolation will demand to be Worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! The Anti-Christ will come after Israel, who flees to the Wilderness where God protects them for 1260 days (Rev. 12), he then comes after Christians who became Christians after the Rapture to Behead them, those are the Remnant of the Church of Jesus and he will destroy Islam, Buddhism and all Religions. He demands worship as the ONLY GOD !! Remember, the Harlot is Judged, this is a Chapter that Judges her. False Religion has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs on its hands of course.

    Ever wonder why the Harlot is HATED by the Kings but when Babylon is destroyed the Kings Cry and Lament her demise? Because they are TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES !! Babylon is False Government and the Harlot is False Religion. But then people will say "but what about Revelation 17:18" that verse calls her a city? Well the Angel was only reminding John what he SAW, and the vision was what? A woman with four things imprinted on her head, MYSTERY, COMMA, Babylon the Great, Abominations of the Earth and Mother of Harlots. The Angel just reminded John that she was BABYLON the Mother of FALSE RELIGIONS. Not a City, but a MEMORY which is repulsive to God the Father. Proof of this is in Rev. 16:19.

    There really is no Rev. 17 and 18, Rev. 16 comes right before Rev. 20. Rev. 17 is only the Harlot {False Religion} being destroyed and that happens in Rev. 6 when the Anti-Christ goes forth to Conquer, this makes him the BEAST for 42 Months. Rev. 18 is only Babylon or the Last Beast Head of the Seven Headed Beast coming against Israel, getting the plagues of God rained down on them via the seal, Trumpet and the Vials of God. Rev. 17 and 18 are just enhanced retellings of things already told, thus in Rev. 16 we are told, IT IS DONE !!

    In Rev. 16 the 6th Vial gathers the Nations against Israel (Anti-Christ/10 Kings which is Europe and the Kings of the East) and we know who meets them at Meggido don't we? Jesus Christ our Lord. After he lands on the Mt. of Olives (Zechariah 14) and splits it into (Earthquake). Rev. 16 tells it like this:

    Rev. 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. (IT IS DONE !! No Rev. 17 or Rev. 18 exists per se.) 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

    19 And the great city was divided into three parts (Earthquake splits Jerusalem), and the cities of the nations fell: (BABYLON) and........... great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. (God sees these Nations that Gather at Armageddon as who? BABYLON !! So the Head of the Statue which is Gold, represents the whole Statue (Daniel 2) and the Rock (Jesus) that is cut out of the Mountain is going to SMASH that Statue into pieces. AMEN..............Rev. 16:19 BOOM.

    So we see here that BABYLON is only a Metaphor, God sees the Nations that come against Israel as BABYLON, and gives them the fierceness of his wrath. Of course Jesus lands on the Mt. of Olives and destroys those Nations that come against Israel, that is their demise. God Judges False Religion or the Harlot in Rev 17:16, she is no more after this. This happens when the False Prophet places an Image of the Anti-Christ in the Temple and demands all peoples to Worship him as GOD, at the MID-WAY POINT or in Rev. chapter 6. To be more specific at the 1290 Event, 30 days before the Anti-Christ Conquers Israel/Jerusalem to become THE BEAST.

    Babylon is destroyed by Gods plagues, Babylon is the Nations that come against Israel (the World) and God destroys her with His Plagues, which are the Seals/Trumpets and Vials. Babylons commerce is no doubt destroyed, that is what plagues do. Babylon is the habitation of Devils, Satan has been cast to earth and Apollyon and his horde of demons have been released from the pit in Rev. 9. The BOTTOM LINE IS :

    The Harlot is FALSE RELIGION

    Babylon is FALSE GOVERNMENT(S) that try to destroy God's people throughout history, who come after God's ultimate authority, and try to deny His Godhead. It is not a City, it represents all that God sees as EVIL. The Evil Governance of Men !! The Dark Kingdom of Satan on Earth.

    So God reveals to those that seek, there are 100's of thoughts on Babylon, which meant to me something was wrong, men were not hearing God on this clearly, after my blog I have seen a few others who see the same thing, tha the Harlot is False Religion and Babylon is False Governance. The HARLOT...........RIDES..............THE BEAST.

    God Bless

  3. #48
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    Re: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Seems like the prophecy guys you read are UNABLE to read scripture:
    Rev 6:7 & 8 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

    It says that they were given AUTHORITY over a fourth, not that they necessarily exercised that authority.

    One possible explanation is that the fourth horse is NOT pale but green - as the Greek word translated everywhere else in the NT is green. And then some note that Green is the colour of Islam, and note that soon 1/4 of the world's population will be Islamic. They then note also that the symbol of Islam (apart from the crescent moon) is the sword.
    Where are the famines and pestilences etc. They are by far occurring in the Islamic world.

    So whether you agree with that explanation is immaterial, the question is where it is a POSSIBLE interpretation in terms of what AUTHORITY means?
    READ IT AGAIN..........The Seal is the Pale Green Horse of DEATH & THE GRAVE !!

    1/4 of all Mankind does what ? Well then, under thus command they must DIE and thus go to their GRAVE. Seems simple to me.

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    Re: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Seems like the prophecy guys you read are UNABLE to read scripture:
    Rev 6:7 & 8 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

    It says that they were given AUTHORITY over a fourth, not that they necessarily exercised that authority.

    One possible explanation is that the fourth horse is NOT pale but green - as the Greek word translated everywhere else in the NT is green. And then some note that Green is the colour of Islam, and note that soon 1/4 of the world's population will be Islamic. They then note also that the symbol of Islam (apart from the crescent moon) is the sword.
    Where are the famines and pestilences etc. They are by far occurring in the Islamic world.

    So whether you agree with that explanation is immaterial, the question is where it is a POSSIBLE interpretation in terms of what AUTHORITY means?
    It is Green, niy its a pale green color that correlates with lets say flee, sickness, gang green etc. etc. etc. It represents death so to speak, I didn't notice you spoke about Green, which most people never mention, so I figured I would make another post as per to why the Horse is Green.

    1.) White Horse = the Conqueror, means the Anti-Christ goes forth Conquering.

    2.) Red Horse = War/Blood shed from the Anti-Christ who takes peace away.

    3.) Black Horse = Famine, wars always bring famine of some sorts.

    4.) Pale Green Horse = Death and Sickness/Grave.

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    Re: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    It is Green, niy its a pale green color that correlates with lets say flee, sickness, gang green etc. etc. etc. It represents death so to speak, I didn't notice you spoke about Green, which most people never mention, so I figured I would make another post as per to why the Horse is Green.

    1.) White Horse = the Conqueror, means the Anti-Christ goes forth Conquering.

    2.) Red Horse = War/Blood shed from the Anti-Christ who takes peace away.

    3.) Black Horse = Famine, wars always bring famine of some sorts.

    4.) Pale Green Horse = Death and Sickness/Grave.
    Nope it isn't "pale green" it is "green" the colour of living plants.

    The word is simply "chloros" χλωρός

    This word is used elsewhere in the NT:
    Mar 6:39* Then he commanded them all to sit down in groups on the green grass.*

    Rev 8:7* The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and these were thrown upon the earth. And a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.

    Rev 9:4* They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.*

    So three of the four uses are in Revelation and the other two uses clear are NOT speaking of a "pale" green, but a living green.
    The one in Mark 6 is also clearly not a "pale" green. The grass would go brown not pale.

    As for the four horses:
    1) The Church Militant - a white horse, conquering without death
    2) Feudalism - the break up of the empire and wars and petty groupings
    3) Capitalism - the rise of the nation and wealth (no famine per se but inequality)
    4) Fundamentalism - the rise of Islam, the counter of Crusades and continuing on to today.

    Of course my view of the four horses is as open to challenge as any other.
    However my view is that the seals were first broken AFTER the events of the letters to the churches. I reject a rapture BEFORE the 1st seal is opened, as there is no rapture shown. This of course would lead to an alternative to what the 4 horsemen are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    READ IT AGAIN..........The Seal is the Pale Green Horse of DEATH & THE GRAVE !!
    1/4 of all Mankind does what ? Well then, under thus command they must DIE and thus go to their GRAVE. Seems simple to me.
    Nope, not they must die, but that they live in a state of FATALISM - which is what we find they are living in.

  6. #51

    Re: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    What ? Jesus returned from Heaven and told Thomas to poke is fingers into his wounds, whereas he told Mary not to touch him because he had not yet ascended to the Father (to offer the perfect sacrifice). So you actually think the Father's glory could sit in the midst of mere men ? Come on !! You can't believe Jesus had the fullness of God's Glory with hm on earth !! YIKES !!

    Firstly people take translations and don't study them in depth, nor the root words, nor the actual meanings, and that is our jobs, we have computers now. So let's take the word FULLNESS in Col. 1:19 and see what it really means, because it can' mean God's FULL GLORY !!

    FULLNESS = #4138 πλήρωμα pleroma {play'-ro-mah}

    from G4137; TDNT - 6:298,867; n n
    —Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

    1) that which is (has been) filled
    1a) a ship inasmuch as it is filled (i.e. manned) with sailors,
    rowers, and soldiers
    1b) in the NT, the body of believers, as that which is filled with
    the presence, power, agency, riches of God and of Christ

    2) that which fills or with which a thing is filled
    2a) of those things which a ship is filled, freight and
    merchandise, sailors, oarsmen, soldiers
    2b) completeness or fullness of time
    3) fulness, abundance
    4) a fulfilling, keeping
    —Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

    From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period):—which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
    —Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

    #4138.
    πλη´ρωμα
    plērōma; from 4137; fullness, a filling up:—
    NASB - all...contains(1), fulfillment(2), full(2), fullness(10), patch(2).
    [B]—NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries

    So the verse seems to b saying God was PLEASED that Jesus had 100 PERCENT God in him or was full of God's Likeness, in that of course he had no sin. He was filled with God's Likeness, not with God's full Glory. Then next verse you cited kind of proves this also.

    The RADIANCE of the Sun is not the Sun, the brightness of the Father is not the Father's Glory brother. We can be in the presence of Sunlight, but if we were actually in the PRESENCE of the Sun above we would not survive that venture !!

    As per the High Priests, they can enter the Holy of Holies by sprinkling the blood on them, like we can with the blood of Jesus, but they could not open the Ark of the Covenant which contained God's Glory !! They could not do it.

    1 Samuel 6:19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

    Some bibles say 70 men, and they seem to think it was 50 Oxen of a man and 70 men. The thinking is it would take a lot of dumb people to keep easing up to the Ark of the Covenant to look in knowing everyone else had died. Whatever the case, if you looked into the Ark of the Covenant you most certainly died.

    Footnotes of some commentary on this:

    Why did so many die at Beth Shemesh? My Bible says 50,070 died!

    Some translations, including the NKJV, have the number of deaths as 50,070, and a footnote in the NIV says that most Hebrew manuscripts have 50,070 instead of 70. The NIV Study Bible explains their translation decision: "The additional 50,000 in most Hebrew manuscripts is apparently a copyist's mistake because it is added in an ungrammatical way (no conjunction)." The NKJV itself has a footnote stating that the verse could also be translated "He struck seventy men of the people and fifty oxen of a man." It is therefore rather doubtful that the actual number of deaths was 50,070.

    Even given that the number of deaths was seventy, that's still a large number, and all those people couldn't have been looking into a roughly 2-feet-by-4-feet container at the same time. However, one can picture a large group of people crowding around as someone moved the cover of the ark, and people passing by stopping to stare curiously.

    Jesus is not the Father brother, only the Father has the abundance of the Glory. Mere men can not look at that Glory.
    You probably believe that Jesus created the world, including the brightest stars. If Jesus appeared with the glory of a mere star, we could be vaporized. So yes, Jesus' full glory can kill us too, but He has the power of restraint too, as does the Father.

    You seem to be saying that it is more dangerous to look inside the ark than to be in the presence of God. Which is greater, the Ten Commandments inside the ark or God who sits on top of it?

    John 14:23 WEB Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.

    I suppose you could read this as future in the New Jerusalem.

    One final thought about saints not being able to be in heaven because of lack of holiness. The devil was in heaven until he was cast down, and this was AFTER Jesus' ascension (see Rev. 12).

    What is the Seal about ? DEATH & THE GRAVE !! So the Fourth part references back to those living on earth, 1/4 of all mankind who are under the dictates of the Beast will die.
    I explained this as Death and Grave being names given to Galerius and Maximinus Daia, who killed lots of people.

    No, it happens during the "GREATEST TROUBLES EVER", the Day of the Lord is a DAY that God's Wrath begins, but researching all that happens on the "31 Mentions" of the Day of the Lord we can see it has to be a prolonged period of time, not one day. So the Day of the Lord's [Vengeance] starts with the First Seal and ends with 7th Vial/Jesus' Return.

    You left off the end of the verse, and the next verse which shows what happens IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation, Jesus Returns. After Tribulation.........then Jesus gives them the Joel 2 reference as per to what most of his disciples were familiar with, he didn't need to run down everything that was going to happen in the 70th week to make his point. Jesus told John in the book of Revelation everything that was eventually going to happen.

    But IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation Jesus will Return. That is a 3.5 year period.
    So you don't think the sun will be darkened AFTER the tribulation of those days?


    Noooooo, read the whole passage, Jesus is telling the end time Jews......HEY, do not go unto the False Prophet and Anti-Christ who are preforming these Miracles, stay in your SAFE ZONE in Petra/Mountains where you are safe, because if you go unto them who are claiming to be me (Messiah Jesus) they will doubt kill you !! Then he says IF IT WERE POSSIBLE they would deceive the very elect but BEHOLD I have told you BEFORE as in BEFOREHAND: Meaning that Jesus is saying it is impossible to deceive those Jews who have repented, because they have by now (at that time) read Matthew 24 and understand where Jesus will be coming from.........THE EASTERN SKIES

    Matt. 24:25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

    27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

    THEN VERSES 29-31 show Jesus coming from the SKIES/CLOUDS............So Jesus has told them, I am coming from the Eastern Skies. Don't look for me in the Desert or Secret Chambers, that will NOT BE ME !! Thus the BEHOLD, I have told you before[hand].
    I agree that Jesus will come from the clouds rather than come out of hiding somewhere in the desert.


    Not necessarily, but it could. Some people as I say, think the Psalm 83 war happens first, then the Ezekiel 38 war happens, and then later on Armageddon. There reasoning is the Ezekiel wars and Armageddon don't seem to be the same war. However I have yet to find the time to study that in depth, so I must refrain answering in full at this point in time. I am in flux betwixt my old thoughts and some new observations, further study and prayer is needed, and God has me doing other studies at the Moment, like the Throne Room of God studies I am in. I agree the Marriage Supper is after Armageddon, but as per the fowl reference, John used the Old Testament to pain pictures in Revelation, so it doesn't always have to be the same event, for instance John/Jesus used Daniel 5 (MENE, MENE, TEKEL) to paint the picture of the Harlot in Rev. 17.
    I suppose Psalm 83 could happen first. Keep thinking. Can you tell me where the reference to MENE, MENE, TEKEL is in Revelation 17?

    The preponderance of people saying something is usually a key that the Spirit is leading the Church in that direction. In other instances God locks things up like he told Daniel He was going to do, until He so desires that it be known. Satan also of course tries to confuses the masses on these issues because he knows men are vain, everyone want to be the be all and end all as per our DNA, we males are by nature competitive at everything, be it basketball pick-up games, chess or even understanding Prophetic Events.

    I had an epiphany on this about three years ago, or was it five, oh well, a while back, where Holy Spirit was like, you know why you are stuck in place running Ron ? You hear to much Men's Traditions, thus I can't teach you on Prophecy, which I called you unto.....those MEN didn't call you, I did, so put off all that thought process, I know it all, why not rely on me instead of Men's traditions !! So I put off all of my former thoughts and started asking God to show me the reality of everything.....We have 100's of theories and understandings about Babylon the Great or the Misnomer, Mystery Babylon, but God has ONE UNDERSTANDING !! My Blog from a few years back on Babylon below:

    Babylon, the Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained.

    I will explain what the Holy Spirit has shown me recently, I blogged a blog about eight months ago and in the blog I stated that Rev. 17:18 was speaking of Rome, (from my perspective) within 2 months the Holy Spirit had revealed to me who Babylon was, who the Beast is and who the Harlot is. My opinion is my opinion, I never allow it to supersede God's revelation, in other words I do not hold on to the pride of my opinion. If you want to know who the Harlot, Beast and Babylon is read on.

    To start with it is not a City, it is not Rome, Babylon proper, Jerusalem, NYC, it is not the RCC, Mecca or America. HINT: The Harlot and Babylon are two different entities. There is also NO MYSTERY BABYLON, I do not understand why we continue to say this, the Angel in 17:7 says this: Rev. 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

    Since the Angel says I will explain the Mystery of the woman (Harlot) and the Beast she rides (Seven Headed Beast) why do we insist that it is still a Mystery and why do we not understand that in Rev. 17:8-18 the Angel explains the Mystery unto us? Why do we miss that which is in plain site ? Mystery (Musterion) in the Greek means Secret by God's Silence in essence, once God reveals the Secret/Mystery, it is no longer a Mystery.

    The Seven Headed Beast is explained unto us first by the Angel, many people say it sits on Seven (7) hills, when the passage has nothing to do with hills or location, it is speaking of Seven Rulers who arise, we understand this because in the very next verse it speaks about the Seven Kings. So she sits on Seven Mountains which = Seven Rulers just like the Seven Heads = Seven Kingdoms. God reduced the KINGDOMS to KINGS because the Last Beast is a mere MAN and God wanted us to know that ( as in 10/20 to 5/10 to 1/2) Then the Angel says Five have fallen, ONE IS, and one is YET TO COME. This is where we have to use our intelligence a wee bit. Who are these Kings? Well we see in Rev. 13 when this Seven Headed Beast is described that the Beasts of Daniel are included, the Lion (Babylon) Bear (Persia) and Leopard (Greece) along with Rome of course as the fierce Beast (Wounded Head). So we are searching for the other three heads, who can they possibly be? What is the commonality of the Beasts/Heads that are mentioned? They each Conquered, Enslaved or Ruled Israel, that is what made them a "BEAST", so we need to go through history and find the other three common Beasts/Heads. Well lets see, after a little thought we should get this fairly easily, Egypt and Assyria Conquered/Enslaved Israel, and the Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings will, according to prophecy, Conquer Israel to become the Beast (Abomination of Desolation). So lets add this up, and see what the Angel has revealed to us.

    Five Kings have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece) ONE IS (Rome of course was Ruling Israel when John wrote Revelation) and one is YET TO COME (The Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings). We understand the Beast with Seven Heads now. This is why the USSR, China, the United States and even the British Empire or Ottoman Empire can not be a Beast or one of the Seven Heads, they never Conquered Israel, while Israel/Jewish Peoples were in the land. The Brits ruled Palestine as did the Ottoman Empire, but God dispersed Israel all over the World, this was why Ezekiel prophesied that Israel would be as "Dead Men's Bones" but we know those dead men's bones came Alive again in 1948, so after Rome, and up until 1948, there could be no Beast, because there was no Israel in the land. The Seven Headed Beast is revealed.

    Now what does the Angel say about the Harlot/Woman? Well firstly it says the Water she sat on is Peoples, Nations, Tongues and Multitudes. So right off the bat we understand she is Worldwide. A key is in Rev. 17:16 the Kings in league with the Beast destroy her, but why after all these years of being co-mingled together do they burn her and destroy her? Because she is ALL FALSE RELIGION, and the Anti-Christ right after the Abomination of Desolation will demand to be Worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! The Anti-Christ will come after Israel, who flees to the Wilderness where God protects them for 1260 days (Rev. 12), he then comes after Christians who became Christians after the Rapture to Behead them, those are the Remnant of the Church of Jesus and he will destroy Islam, Buddhism and all Religions. He demands worship as the ONLY GOD !! Remember, the Harlot is Judged, this is a Chapter that Judges her. False Religion has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs on its hands of course.

    Ever wonder why the Harlot is HATED by the Kings but when Babylon is destroyed the Kings Cry and Lament her demise? Because they are TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES !! Babylon is False Government and the Harlot is False Religion. But then people will say "but what about Revelation 17:18" that verse calls her a city? Well the Angel was only reminding John what he SAW, and the vision was what? A woman with four things imprinted on her head, MYSTERY, COMMA, Babylon the Great, Abominations of the Earth and Mother of Harlots. The Angel just reminded John that she was BABYLON the Mother of FALSE RELIGIONS. Not a City, but a MEMORY which is repulsive to God the Father. Proof of this is in Rev. 16:19.

    There really is no Rev. 17 and 18, Rev. 16 comes right before Rev. 20. Rev. 17 is only the Harlot {False Religion} being destroyed and that happens in Rev. 6 when the Anti-Christ goes forth to Conquer, this makes him the BEAST for 42 Months. Rev. 18 is only Babylon or the Last Beast Head of the Seven Headed Beast coming against Israel, getting the plagues of God rained down on them via the seal, Trumpet and the Vials of God. Rev. 17 and 18 are just enhanced retellings of things already told, thus in Rev. 16 we are told, IT IS DONE !!

    In Rev. 16 the 6th Vial gathers the Nations against Israel (Anti-Christ/10 Kings which is Europe and the Kings of the East) and we know who meets them at Meggido don't we? Jesus Christ our Lord. After he lands on the Mt. of Olives (Zechariah 14) and splits it into (Earthquake). Rev. 16 tells it like this:

    Rev. 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. (IT IS DONE !! No Rev. 17 or Rev. 18 exists per se.) 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

    19 And the great city was divided into three parts (Earthquake splits Jerusalem), and the cities of the nations fell: (BABYLON) and........... great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. (God sees these Nations that Gather at Armageddon as who? BABYLON !! So the Head of the Statue which is Gold, represents the whole Statue (Daniel 2) and the Rock (Jesus) that is cut out of the Mountain is going to SMASH that Statue into pieces. AMEN..............Rev. 16:19 BOOM.

    So we see here that BABYLON is only a Metaphor, God sees the Nations that come against Israel as BABYLON, and gives them the fierceness of his wrath. Of course Jesus lands on the Mt. of Olives and destroys those Nations that come against Israel, that is their demise. God Judges False Religion or the Harlot in Rev 17:16, she is no more after this. This happens when the False Prophet places an Image of the Anti-Christ in the Temple and demands all peoples to Worship him as GOD, at the MID-WAY POINT or in Rev. chapter 6. To be more specific at the 1290 Event, 30 days before the Anti-Christ Conquers Israel/Jerusalem to become THE BEAST.

    Babylon is destroyed by Gods plagues, Babylon is the Nations that come against Israel (the World) and God destroys her with His Plagues, which are the Seals/Trumpets and Vials. Babylons commerce is no doubt destroyed, that is what plagues do. Babylon is the habitation of Devils, Satan has been cast to earth and Apollyon and his horde of demons have been released from the pit in Rev. 9. The BOTTOM LINE IS :

    The Harlot is FALSE RELIGION

    Babylon is FALSE GOVERNMENT(S) that try to destroy God's people throughout history, who come after God's ultimate authority, and try to deny His Godhead. It is not a City, it represents all that God sees as EVIL. The Evil Governance of Men !! The Dark Kingdom of Satan on Earth.

    So God reveals to those that seek, there are 100's of thoughts on Babylon, which meant to me something was wrong, men were not hearing God on this clearly, after my blog I have seen a few others who see the same thing, tha the Harlot is False Religion and Babylon is False Governance. The HARLOT...........RIDES..............THE BEAST.

    God Bless
    I think of the 7 headed beast as Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece split into 4 (Greece, Egypt, Syria, Thrace), 4th beast of Daniel 7 -- Arabia, and the whole beast as the Islamic Caliphates over the centuries with its various capital cities in Arabia, near Babylon, Syria, Egypt, near Thrace.

    For Rev. 16:19, you identified the cities of the nations with Babylon. I associate the great city Jerusalem with Babylon.

    Does the woman sit on waters or on the beast?

    Are you equating Babylon with the beast, or keeping them separate?

    It seems that you have concluded that the harlot is not Babylon for one main reason: 10 kings hate her, kings lament her. This is not even conclusive because there are other kings besides the 10. But there were at least 9 reasons to think the harlot and Babylon are the same.

  7. #52
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    Re: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by greenonions View Post
    You probably believe that Jesus created the world, including the brightest stars. If Jesus appeared with the glory of a mere star, we could be vaporized. So yes, Jesus' full glory can kill us too, but He has the power of restraint too, as does the Father.

    You seem to be saying that it is more dangerous to look inside the ark than to be in the presence of God. Which is greater, the Ten Commandments inside the ark or God who sits on top of it?

    John 14:23 WEB Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.

    I suppose you could read this as future in the New Jerusalem.

    One final thought about saints not being able to be in heaven because of lack of holiness. The devil was in heaven until he was cast down, and this was AFTER Jesus' ascension (see Rev. 12).
    Satan is not in the THIRD HEAVEN. God would consume sin if it came in His presence.

    Jesus doesn't have the Father's Full Glory, you will have to research it yourself, I can only tell you facts so many times and it gets redundant in nature.

    God lived in the Ark of the Covenant, did you not know that brother ? It was His abode in Israel.


    I explained this as Death and Grave being names given to Galerius and Maximinus Daia, who killed lots of people.
    This is a FUTURE EVENT, so I will stick with what the scriptures say, Death and the Grave.

    So you don't think the sun will be darkened AFTER the tribulation of those days?
    That's not the point, you miss the forest for the trees. The Subject is Jesus Returning again...............it happens AFTER the Tribulation of those days, and the Old Testament passage that the Disciples were most familiar with was Joel 2, so Jesus cited it to let them know it was an End Time Event, and immediately after the Tribulation (which lasts 3.5 years) of those Days Jesus will return in the Eastern Skies.

    I agree that Jesus will come from the clouds rather than come out of hiding somewhere in the desert.
    And from the East.........thus Eastern Skies.

    I suppose Psalm 83 could happen first. Keep thinking. Can you tell me where the reference to MENE, MENE, TEKEL is in Revelation 17?
    Its used like Genesis 37:9 is used in Rev. 12 to give us a "CODED PASSAGE" to who the Woman is as in...................

    Rev. 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    (Josephs Dream) Genesis 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

    Likewise Rev. 17 is a reference to Daniel chapter 5 where Belshazzar allowed his court to drink and party from the chalices of the Holy Temple of God.

    Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

    Daniel 5:1 Belshazzar the king made a great feast to a thousand of his lords, and drank wine before the thousand. 2 Belshazzar, whiles he tasted the wine, commanded to bring the golden and silver vessels which his father Nebuchadnezzar had taken out of the temple which was in Jerusalem; that the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, might drink therein. 3 Then they brought the golden vessels that were taken out of the temple of the house of God which was at Jerusalem; and the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, drank in them.

    4 They drank wine, and praised the gods of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone. 5 In the same hour came forth fingers of a man's hand, and wrote over against the candlestick upon the plaister of the wall of the king's palace: and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote. 6 Then the king's countenance was changed, and his thoughts troubled him, so that the joints of his loins were loosed, and his knees smote one against another.

    Belshazzar then calls Daniel for guidance on this issue, and Daniel then gives him the bad news.

    Daniel 5:24 Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written. 25 And this is the writing that was written, Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin. 26 This is the interpretation of the thing: Mene; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it. 27 Tekel; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting. 28 Peres; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.

    29 Then commanded Belshazzar, and they clothed Daniel with scarlet, and put a chain of gold about his neck, and made a proclamation concerning him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom. 30 In that night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain.

    So the picture that is painted of "Harlotry" being judged in Rev. 17 is taken from Daniel chapter 5. The Cups of Abomination are like unto the golden vessels from the Temple of God, they drink wine from them, and praised their false gods made of silver, gold, brass, iron, wood and stone whilst toasting/PRAISING these false gods !!

    Just like Belshazzar was judged that night fir his Harlotry, so with All False Religion be judged in Rev. 17, that is the picture Jesus/John is giving us in the chapter.

    I think of the 7 headed beast as Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece split into 4 (Greece, Egypt, Syria, Thrace), 4th beast of Daniel 7 -- Arabia, and the whole beast as the Islamic Caliphates over the centuries with its various capital cities in Arabia, near Babylon, Syria, Egypt, near Thrace.
    But that isn't it brother, Joel Richardson and Walid Shoebat are both wrong about the Muslim Anti-Christ, as are those who push the RCC and Pope angles. The bible is very clear, the Little Horn arises amongst 10 Horns that arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head. So he comes to power in Europe in the exact footprint of the Old Roman Empire as per Dan. 7, but we also know where he will be born via Daniel chapter 8, but only if we mesh it with Dan. 7. Dan. 8 says the Little Horn is born in one of the FOUR GENERALS Kingdoms in the end times/latter time, so he has to also be born in one of those Four Generals Kingdoms. Here is where Joel and Walid go off course. They fail to overlay both of these prophesies in order to get the answer. You catch what I am doing here ? The Anti-Christ/Little Horn has to arise from both of these places at the same time, prophesy of God can not be wrong so both prophesies must come to pass.

    NEWSFLASH : Out of the Four Generals Kingdoms, only Macedonia/GREECE is in the European Union !! So the Anti-Christ has to be born in Greece, its the only place that fits !! NOW.................we can understand why we get such a detailed accounting of all the Kings of the North vs. the Kings of the South in Daniel chapter 11, and why it ends with Antiochus, the forerunner of the coming Anti-Christ !! Then in verses 36-45 we are told all about the coming Anti-Christ/Little Horn.

    Islam is a part of the False Religion, the Harlot being wiped out thus wipes out Islam !! Nothing about the Islam angle ever made one bit of sense, no Israeli Prime Minister is ever going to enter into a 7 year Agreement with a Muslim, and they surely are not going to get sandbagged by one via "FAKE PEACE". The Muslim nations are like paper tigers, they will never be allowed to get to the point of having such an arsenal because world leaders fear their abilities to control their fanatical masses. It's just not rational. This Man of Sin is going to wipe them off the face of the earth and at first be praised for eradicating such evil men. Its one of his ploys to gain trust.

    For Rev. 16:19, you identified the cities of the nations with Babylon. I associate the great city Jerusalem with Babylon.
    He defeats the Cities of the Nations is pretty clear. The Cities were kind of seen as the powers in days of old, Rome, Babylon, Damascus etc. and these Cities OF THE Nations is speaking about the powers of the Nations. Washington DC would qualify as our power in that kind of reference today. Jesus defeats them. He them sees them as Babylon, we see who he defeats in vial #6.

    For Rev. 16:19, you identified the cities of the nations with Babylon. I associate the great city Jerusalem with Babylon.
    She rides the Beast showing she has been co-mingled with False Governance for years, all of these Kings of course served false gods. She sits on many waters shows she is World Wide, because the waters are explained in verse 15, just the Great city you SAW was explained in verse 18.

    Rev. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

    So THE WATERS are People....Nations....Multitudes....Tongues. Meaning it is World Wide of course, and we know False Religion is indeed world wide.

    Are you equating Babylon with the beast, or keeping them separate?
    The BEAST is World Government under Satan. The Statue that is destroyed by the Rock (Jesus) in Daniel 2 has a HEAD OF GOLD and it is Babylon. Jesus smashes the Statue in the FEET AREA, where it is most vulnerable, because its base is Satan (clay) mixed with Iron (Fourth Beast or the Little Horn and 10 Kings). Babylon is Governance of men by Satan on earth, hence Babylon's definition = Confusion, who follows Satan ? Those he has deceived and confused, thus they are Governed by Confusion, not God. Amen.

    There are THREE Beasts however.

    Rev. 12 is the Dragoon or Satan because the 7 Heads have Crowns on them.

    Rev. 13 is the Anti-Christ because the Crowns are on the 10 Horns whom he is over.

    Rev. 17 is Apollyon and he of course has NO CROWNS, he is the Beast that is loosed from the Bottomless Pit in Rev. 9, he kills the Two-witnesses. He is under Satan and he is not a physical being so he has NO CROWNS, but he is OF THE SEVEN because he was placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan as a HIGHT POWER which Paul spoke about when he said we Wrestle not with flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in HIGH PLACES/POWERS of Darkness etc. Apollyon was the Prince of Persia who withstood Michael for 21 days in Daniel chapter 10.

    It seems that you have concluded that the harlot is not Babylon for one main reason: 10 kings hate her, kings lament her. This is not even conclusive because there are other kings besides the 10. But there were at least 9 reasons to think the harlot and Babylon are the same.
    There are MANY REASONS as I have shown, but of course this means Islam is wiped out, people have problem getting rid of old ideas/men's traditions. The Beast and his 10 Kings are ruling over the whole world. The Harlot RIDES the Beast. They are not the same, and there is zero reason to think they are when they are not the same. The kings KILL of the Harlot. God destroys the Beast. Islam has zero to do with these end time factors.

    If you were a European King and you wanted to set up a ONE WORLD Religion that worshiped you where would you start via your implementation ? I would start by planning on destroying my biggest opposition, since Satan knows the Church will be Raptured first, because Satan has no power to overcome the Church, he will understand he must then attack the Muslims and bring them to heel.

    God Bless

  8. #53
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    Re: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Nope it isn't "pale green" it is "green" the colour of living plants.

    The word is simply "chloros" χλωρός

    This word is used elsewhere in the NT:
    Mar 6:39* Then he commanded them all to sit down in groups on the green grass.*

    Rev 8:7* The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and these were thrown upon the earth. And a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.

    Rev 9:4* They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.*

    So three of the four uses are in Revelation and the other two uses clear are NOT speaking of a "pale" green, but a living green.
    The one in Mark 6 is also clearly not a "pale" green. The grass would go brown not pale.

    As for the four horses:
    1) The Church Militant - a white horse, conquering without death
    2) Feudalism - the break up of the empire and wars and petty groupings
    3) Capitalism - the rise of the nation and wealth (no famine per se but inequality)
    4) Fundamentalism - the rise of Islam, the counter of Crusades and continuing on to today.

    Of course my view of the four horses is as open to challenge as any other.
    However my view is that the seals were first broken AFTER the events of the letters to the churches. I reject a rapture BEFORE the 1st seal is opened, as there is no rapture shown. This of course would lead to an alternative to what the 4 horsemen are.


    Nope, not they must die, but that they live in a state of FATALISM - which is what we find they are living in.
    IV. Horseman 4 - Pale Horse - “And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.” Revelation 6:7–8

    Only this Rider is identified by name: Death. He is followed by Hell, the destination of the dead. His color, in the original Koine Greek, is given as χλωρός, which can mean “pale green” or “ashen,” and seems to typify the color of a corpse. Based on this, several scholars have suggested that the actual color of the fourth horse is a pale, sickly green. It might hint at the sickly green/greyish color of a decomposing corpse.

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    Re: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    IV. Horseman 4 - Pale Horse - “And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.” Revelation 6:7–8

    Only this Rider is identified by name: Death. He is followed by Hell, the destination of the dead. His color, in the original Koine Greek, is given as χλωρός, which can mean “pale green” or “ashen,” and seems to typify the color of a corpse. Based on this, several scholars have suggested that the actual color of the fourth horse is a pale, sickly green. It might hint at the sickly green/greyish color of a decomposing corpse.
    Notice the rider is NOT the horse.
    Death comes in ON the horse which is green.
    He is followed by Hades, which is the grave.
    Chloros does NOT mean "pale green" nor "ashen" as used in the NT, nor is that Kone Greek using it differently:
    From Proto-Indo-European *ǵʰelh₃-. Related to χλοερός (khloerós, “verdant”) and χλόη (khlóē, “the green of new growth”).

    Now there are a further 18 verses found in the LXX with the same word and ALL mean Green.
    A decomposing corpse though isn't a pale green but more a rotten green, which can be shiny.

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    Re: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Notice the rider is NOT the horse.
    Death comes in ON the horse which is green.
    He is followed by Hades, which is the grave.
    Chloros does NOT mean "pale green" nor "ashen" as used in the NT, nor is that Kone Greek using it differently:
    From Proto-Indo-European *ǵʰelh₃-. Related to χλοερός (khloerós, “verdant”) and χλόη (khlóē, “the green of new growth”).

    Now there are a further 18 verses found in the LXX with the same word and ALL mean Green.
    A decomposing corpse though isn't a pale green but more a rotten green, which can be shiny.
    Its just a same sister, I go with Pale Green so people "THINKING PALE" will understand what I am speaking of is not a mistake, I want them to know its really a greenish color, so I choose to go with Pale green, and besides some scholars think it refers to an ashen type green color. Its no big deal, I also say....the Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Beast to allow people to know that I think all three are the same.

    God Bless.

  11. #56

    Re: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Satan is not in the THIRD HEAVEN. God would consume sin if it came in His presence.

    Jesus doesn't have the Father's Full Glory, you will have to research it yourself, I can only tell you facts so many times and it gets redundant in nature.

    God lived in the Ark of the Covenant, did you not know that brother ? It was His abode in Israel.
    God was "above" the ark.

    Exodus 25:22 NIVThere, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.

    This is a FUTURE EVENT, so I will stick with what the scriptures say, Death and the Grave.
    ok

    That's not the point, you miss the forest for the trees. The Subject is Jesus Returning again...............it happens AFTER the Tribulation of those days, and the Old Testament passage that the Disciples were most familiar with was Joel 2, so Jesus cited it to let them know it was an End Time Event, and immediately after the Tribulation (which lasts 3.5 years) of those Days Jesus will return in the Eastern Skies.

    And from the East.........thus Eastern Skies.
    ok


    Its used like Genesis 37:9 is used in Rev. 12 to give us a "CODED PASSAGE" to who the Woman is as in...................

    Rev. 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    (Josephs Dream) Genesis 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

    Likewise Rev. 17 is a reference to Daniel chapter 5 where Belshazzar allowed his court to drink and party from the chalices of the Holy Temple of God.

    Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

    Daniel 5:1 Belshazzar the king made a great feast to a thousand of his lords, and drank wine before the thousand. 2 Belshazzar, whiles he tasted the wine, commanded to bring the golden and silver vessels which his father Nebuchadnezzar had taken out of the temple which was in Jerusalem; that the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, might drink therein. 3 Then they brought the golden vessels that were taken out of the temple of the house of God which was at Jerusalem; and the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, drank in them.

    4 They drank wine, and praised the gods of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone. 5 In the same hour came forth fingers of a man's hand, and wrote over against the candlestick upon the plaister of the wall of the king's palace: and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote. 6 Then the king's countenance was changed, and his thoughts troubled him, so that the joints of his loins were loosed, and his knees smote one against another.

    Belshazzar then calls Daniel for guidance on this issue, and Daniel then gives him the bad news.

    Daniel 5:24 Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written. 25 And this is the writing that was written, Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin. 26 This is the interpretation of the thing: Mene; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it. 27 Tekel; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting. 28 Peres; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.

    29 Then commanded Belshazzar, and they clothed Daniel with scarlet, and put a chain of gold about his neck, and made a proclamation concerning him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom. 30 In that night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain.

    So the picture that is painted of "Harlotry" being judged in Rev. 17 is taken from Daniel chapter 5. The Cups of Abomination are like unto the golden vessels from the Temple of God, they drink wine from them, and praised their false gods made of silver, gold, brass, iron, wood and stone whilst toasting/PRAISING these false gods !!

    Just like Belshazzar was judged that night fir his Harlotry, so with All False Religion be judged in Rev. 17, that is the picture Jesus/John is giving us in the chapter.
    That's an interesting connection, since the "Fall of Babylon" happens in both cases.

    But that isn't it brother, Joel Richardson and Walid Shoebat are both wrong about the Muslim Anti-Christ, as are those who push the RCC and Pope angles. The bible is very clear, the Little Horn arises amongst 10 Horns that arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head. So he comes to power in Europe in the exact footprint of the Old Roman Empire as per Dan. 7, but we also know where he will be born via Daniel chapter 8, but only if we mesh it with Dan. 7. Dan. 8 says the Little Horn is born in one of the FOUR GENERALS Kingdoms in the end times/latter time, so he has to also be born in one of those Four Generals Kingdoms. Here is where Joel and Walid go off course. They fail to overlay both of these prophesies in order to get the answer. You catch what I am doing here ? The Anti-Christ/Little Horn has to arise from both of these places at the same time, prophesy of God can not be wrong so both prophesies must come to pass.

    NEWSFLASH : Out of the Four Generals Kingdoms, only Macedonia/GREECE is in the European Union !! So the Anti-Christ has to be born in Greece, its the only place that fits !! NOW.................we can understand why we get such a detailed accounting of all the Kings of the North vs. the Kings of the South in Daniel chapter 11, and why it ends with Antiochus, the forerunner of the coming Anti-Christ !! Then in verses 36-45 we are told all about the coming Anti-Christ/Little Horn.

    Islam is a part of the False Religion, the Harlot being wiped out thus wipes out Islam !! Nothing about the Islam angle ever made one bit of sense, no Israeli Prime Minister is ever going to enter into a 7 year Agreement with a Muslim, and they surely are not going to get sandbagged by one via "FAKE PEACE". The Muslim nations are like paper tigers, they will never be allowed to get to the point of having such an arsenal because world leaders fear their abilities to control their fanatical masses. It's just not rational. This Man of Sin is going to wipe them off the face of the earth and at first be praised for eradicating such evil men. Its one of his ploys to gain trust.
    Sure, identifying Islam as the 4th beast in Daniel 7 and the iron in Daniel 2 is uncertain. But you seem to be too certain about Rome being the 4th kingdom. The Parthian empire, which was there at the same time as the Roman empire, had more land area. It could be a revival of the 2nd kingdom (Persian empire). Rome occupied Jerusalem, but had great difficulty ruling Babylon for long, which was under the control of the Parthians. Also, the 4th beast is very different from the other 3 beasts. Roman customs are too similar to the Greek.



    He defeats the Cities of the Nations is pretty clear. The Cities were kind of seen as the powers in days of old, Rome, Babylon, Damascus etc. and these Cities OF THE Nations is speaking about the powers of the Nations. Washington DC would qualify as our power in that kind of reference today. Jesus defeats them. He them sees them as Babylon, we see who he defeats in vial #6.

    She rides the Beast showing she has been co-mingled with False Governance for years, all of these Kings of course served false gods. She sits on many waters shows she is World Wide, because the waters are explained in verse 15, just the Great city you SAW was explained in verse 18.

    Rev. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

    So THE WATERS are People....Nations....Multitudes....Tongues. Meaning it is World Wide of course, and we know False Religion is indeed world wide.
    But she just needs to be the capital of the beast's world empire to be over the whole world.

    The BEAST is World Government under Satan. The Statue that is destroyed by the Rock (Jesus) in Daniel 2 has a HEAD OF GOLD and it is Babylon. Jesus smashes the Statue in the FEET AREA, where it is most vulnerable, because its base is Satan (clay) mixed with Iron (Fourth Beast or the Little Horn and 10 Kings). Babylon is Governance of men by Satan on earth, hence Babylon's definition = Confusion, who follows Satan ? Those he has deceived and confused, thus they are Governed by Confusion, not God. Amen.

    There are THREE Beasts however.

    Rev. 12 is the Dragoon or Satan because the 7 Heads have Crowns on them.

    Rev. 13 is the Anti-Christ because the Crowns are on the 10 Horns whom he is over.

    Rev. 17 is Apollyon and he of course has NO CROWNS, he is the Beast that is loosed from the Bottomless Pit in Rev. 9, he kills the Two-witnesses. He is under Satan and he is not a physical being so he has NO CROWNS, but he is OF THE SEVEN because he was placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan as a HIGHT POWER which Paul spoke about when he said we Wrestle not with flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in HIGH PLACES/POWERS of Darkness etc. Apollyon was the Prince of Persia who withstood Michael for 21 days in Daniel chapter 10.



    There are MANY REASONS as I have shown, but of course this means Islam is wiped out, people have problem getting rid of old ideas/men's traditions. The Beast and his 10 Kings are ruling over the whole world. The Harlot RIDES the Beast. They are not the same, and there is zero reason to think they are when they are not the same. The kings KILL of the Harlot. God destroys the Beast. Islam has zero to do with these end time factors.

    If you were a European King and you wanted to set up a ONE WORLD Religion that worshiped you where would you start via your implementation ? I would start by planning on destroying my biggest opposition, since Satan knows the Church will be Raptured first, because Satan has no power to overcome the Church, he will understand he must then attack the Muslims and bring them to heel.

    God Bless
    The Harlot RIDES the beast. You keep repeating that, but it doesn't mean she is not Babylon, because Babylon is not the beast either. Babylon the Harlot could be the beast's capital city.

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    Re: Possible Explanation of first 5 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by greenonions View Post
    God was "above" the ark.

    Exodus 25:22 NIVThere, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.


    ok


    ok



    That's an interesting connection, since the "Fall of Babylon" happens in both cases.



    Sure, identifying Islam as the 4th beast in Daniel 7 and the iron in Daniel 2 is uncertain. But you seem to be too certain about Rome being the 4th kingdom. The Parthian empire, which was there at the same time as the Roman empire, had more land area. It could be a revival of the 2nd kingdom (Persian empire). Rome occupied Jerusalem, but had great difficulty ruling Babylon for long, which was under the control of the Parthians. Also, the 4th beast is very different from the other 3 beasts. Roman customs are too similar to the Greek.




    But she just needs to be the capital of the beast's world empire to be over the whole world.



    The Harlot RIDES the beast. You keep repeating that, but it doesn't mean she is not Babylon, because Babylon is not the beast either. Babylon the Harlot could be the beast's capital city.
    Believe what you will.....I don't keep repeating myself over and over again.

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