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Thread: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Some terms from 1984. It’s pretty scary when we recognize most of these terms / concepts being currently deployed by the “free press” and democrats and embraced by many citizens:

    bb – Big Brother

    bellyfeel – a blind, enthusiastic acceptance of an idea

    blackwhite – the ability to believe that black is white, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary

    crimestop – to rid oneself of unwanted thoughts, i.e., thoughts that interfere with the ideology of the Party. This way, a person avoids committing thoughtcrime

    crimethink – Thoughtcrime, thoughts that are unorthodox or outside the official government platform (or the crime of thinking such thoughts)

    doublethink – the act of simultaneously accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs as correct

    duckspeak – Voicing political orthodoxies without thinking, lit. "to quack like a duck"

    equal – Only in the sense of physically equal, like equal height/size, etc. It does not mean socially – politically or economically – equal, since there is no such concept as social inequality in purportedly egalitarianistic Ingsoc

    facecrime – An indication that a person is guilty of thoughtcrime based on their facial expression

    free – Meaning Negative freedom (without) in a physical sense, only in statements like "This dog is free from lice", as the concepts of "political freedom" and "intellectual freedom" do not exist in Newspeak

    good – (Can also be used as a prefix vaguely meaning "orthodox")

    goodthink – thoughts that are approved by the Party and follow its policies, ideals and interpretations. It is the opposite of crimethink

    malquoted – flaws or inaccurate presentations of Party or Big Brother-related matters by the press. See misprints below

    minitrue – "Ministry of Truth" (propaganda and altering history, culture and entertainment)

    miniplenty – "Ministry of Plenty" (keeping the population in a state of constant economic hardship)

    misprints – Errors or mispredictions which need to be rectified in order to prove that the Party is always right. See malquoted above

    oldspeak – English; perhaps any language that is not Newspeak

    oldthink – Ideas inspired by events or memories of times prior to the Revolution

    prolefeed – The steady stream of mindless entertainment to distract and occupy the masses

    rectify – used by the Ministry of Truth as a euphemism for the deliberate alteration (or 'correction') of the past

    telescreen – television and security camera-like devices used by the ruling Party in Oceania to keep its subjects under constant surveillance

    thinkpol – the Thought Police

    thoughtcrime – the criminal act of holding unspoken beliefs or doubts that oppose or question Ingsoc (Ingsoc is an acronym for “english socialism”
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Some terms from 1984. It’s pretty scary when we recognize most of these terms / concepts being currently deployed by the “free press” and democrats and embraced by many citizens:
    1984 and Animal Farm should be required reading today. It is uncanny how accurate they were/are in predicting the path that has been taken. Interesting enough, Orwell described himself as a Democratic Socialist.

    My single biggest issue(s) with any form of socialism, communism, etc. is the loss of individual/societal freedom combined with a dependence upon government. Those two go hand in hand. They will always lead to or follow moral corruption.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    The country we grew up in is fading fast Fenris.
    I'm told that today's kids are politically to the left of the millennials. That would be game over.

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    Where the other side loses communication is in explaining how capitalism is better at solving community issues such as the environment, education, healthcare, etc. - especially when these things are being visibly neglected.
    I feel that part of the problem is that capitalism does not have a good spokesperson at this time. Ronald Reagan or Milton Friedman could communicate in clear language why capitalism was superior to socialism, and they did so regularly. Nobody in government or the private sector does anything like that anymore. Conservative leaning publications exist only for telling conservatives what they already believe to be true. They're not trying to make converts. Left leaning publications on the other hand are willing to convert everyone to the cause. And they're winning bigly. Where are the capitalist defenders? When was the last time someone said "Capitalism creates wealth, not just for the wealthy but for all society"? And "Capitalism has lifted man out of poverty so that now even the poor have more amenities than the wealthy did 100 years ago"? Why isn't someone telling kids that their beloved cell phones were created not by socialism, but by someone's desire to make money?

    No one is selling our viewpoint, so is it any wonder that nobody outside of a shrinking number of conservatives ascribe to it?

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    I think on social issues this is definitely true, except for abortion which overall my generation is more pro-life than previous. Part of the reason socialist economic ideas are more popular could be because accumulating wealth is not as motivating to mill/Z's as boom/X-ers. So a system which has less profit potential for individuals, but greater benefit to society as a whole, is viewed as the better option to us (I'm being very general).
    One issue is that economics, while simple at its core, is also a complicated and multivariabled thing. I'll try to be brief.

    Profit is something that has been greatly beneficial to society. It has been demonized over and over again by those on the left and many in the younger generation have believed it. Mankinds march from poverty has been led by two big things hated by the left... capitalism and fossil fuels.

    The profit motive, when regulated properly so that competition is encouraged (i.e. enforcing anti-trust laws, etc.), is something that benefits society in a HUGE way. For instance, if someone comes up with a new product, say a TV, and they make a lot of money, then others are encouraged to enter the market and make a version of that same product. The product gets better over time, and often cheaper. Now, the standard of living of most households goes up as society begins to benefit from this new product. This happens repeatedly over and over and over again through the years. Government can regulate such things by encouraging competition and at the same time, protecting the profit motive. That's why we have patents and anti-trust laws. It's also why patents have a time limit on them... to avoid monopolies. Unfortunately, your generation has been exposed more to crony capitalism where government gives money directly to companies, and where companies make more money by doing business with the government than by competiting.

    Another great example of the profit motive benefiting societies is an industry often hated by many... pharmacuetical companies. They invest billions to find drugs that cure sickness, ease symptoms, among many other things. But many then want these drugs for free. Remove the profit motive and you remove a LOT of research on such things. Profit motivates many people, even in your generation, to work, to invent, to make something better, etc. How do I know? You all want wages when you work. None of you want to work for free. Ergo, profit matters to your generation too. Also, your generation wants someone else's profit sent to their pockets in the name of "what's better for society". It sounds nice, but it is still going after profit.

    Where government has failed us, is it has protected big business rather than forcing it to compete. It has also done the same to us as individuals. Combine that with, a promise to help people by providing for them, and everything becomes more expensive to the point that the average person struggles to afford it. We see this play out in both healthcare and education.

    Before government started making student loans so easy to access, people had to work while they went to college. Parents saved for years to help. The government had grants for the poor, but it was not available to the middle class nor were loans easy to come by. But once big government got involved, schools could raise prices far more easily. With so much demand, colleges did not have to compete on price and quality. The cost of an education soared! The demand and supply curve was messed up. Now, kids pay $100,000 for an education that will pay them $30,000 a year. They won't be able to pay that loan off. In the past, if you had to pay for an education, you wanted something that would pay you back unless you were wealthy enough to cover it anyway.

    In the same way, the healthcare industry has gone nuts. Obamacare basically killed the private insurance market for small businesses. But if you are poor enough, you get subsidized coverage. Folks like me and my pastor just got squeezed out of the market. If I had a family, my out of pocket costs would be $30,000 or more a year BEFORE my insurance even kicked in. That would be the cost of my premiums and my deductible. That's more than 3 times higher than it was just a few years ago. It will continue to get worse.

    Where the other side loses communication is in explaining how capitalism is better at solving community issues such as the environment, education, healthcare, etc. - especially when these things are being visibly neglected.
    Education was much better when it was left to the local communities. Environment is definitely something government should do something about. When a company pollutes, they are putting the cost of doing business on the local community. IMO, wielding the sword means punishing evil doers. Scripturally speaking, that is the role of government. God didn't intend government to help people via mercy. He intended it to do good by dealing with evil. That's why He gave it the sword. The enviroment should be a part of every trade deal we make. Now, IMO, there's also some good debates to be had on what is and what is not pollution. But no company should be allowed to pollute at the expense of the local environment. On the other hand, we have to be very careful on who we listen to. I worked at a paper mill for many years. An environmental group came by and measured the dioxin level of water we put back into the river after treating it. (We took water out of the river, used it, then put the water back into the river after we cleaned it.) They took their findings to the paper and it made front page news. What they didn't measure was very important though... they didn't measure the dioxin at our intake valve. Turned out, there was more dioxin in the river water we took in, than the river water we put back. We actually cleaned more dioxin out of the water than we put in. But the environmentalist group had an agenda beyond just the enviroment.

    Capitalism begs on the charity of individuals, but this philosophy seems to be failing with the opioid epidemic and life-ending college expenses.
    Government failure on both ends, IMO. As I mentioned above, school would be far more practical and affordable if government would get out of the loan business. One thing that would help in a BIG way, would be if students could declare bankruptcy on student loans. Then these private lenders, whom the government regulates, would not make a loan to a kid that was in a major where he could not make the money back.

    An even bigger question is how did the opioid even get approved? Some of those drugs are very close to street drugs. However, I've lived long enough now to know that many drug issues are issues of the heart. The opioid crisis is different in that some people get addicted just following their doctor's orders. That is something that government should have cracked down on by wielding the sword of the wrath of God properly. Why was it ever allowed to sell such an addictive drug in the first place without some massive warnings to the consumer? But back to the heart issue... whether it's alcohol, or LSD, or meth, or crack, or whatever the latest drug crisis is, the heart is where change is needed. BTW, drugs became a major issue in our society in the hippie commune (i.e. communist) movement of the 60s. They've been in our society for a long, long time. But those kids helped bring it mainstream.

    On another note, I would say that hopelessness plays a role in drugs and many of our societal problems today. It use to be the inner city kids now we are seeing it in small town America too. But that's a heart issue too.

    Typically the conservative response falls along the lines of "these aren't important issues", so voluntarily push us away to be naturally swept up by the likes of DemSoc.
    The biggest difference is one side is more "in God we trust" and the other side is "in government we trust". And, on each side you find a hatred for the value of the other side. There's a reason that socialist and communist see God as an enemy.

    But when not dismissive, the conservative response is, "the market will solve it." This is a valid position even though poorly explained, I think. When con. politicians propose "tax cuts on the wealthy", this is misconstrued as pandering to greedy individuals over the wellbeing of the country. Instead the messaging should be something like, "better paying jobs allow for greater activism."
    That is the message from the right. They (we) call those folks "job creators". We speak in terms of investment, job growth, etc. But do you think CNN wants to talk about it in the same terms we do? The news media matters and they are very biased.

    The bottom 50 percent of wage earners don't pay any income tax at all in this country. The top 10% pay the vast majority of income taxes in this country. It's a scary situation for any nation to be in. The tax policy itself leads to division. IMO, we should do what God did with the tithes... let everyone pay the same rate (if we insist on having an income tax, which is another discussion completely). Then everyone would be equally interested in tax hikes or tax cuts.

    As it is, younger generations are fine with living simpler than our parents did - as long as the air is clean, so to speak. Personal wealth would not be an effective motivator, even if it was believable.
    Part of that is they want government to take care of some basic needs. Would they feel the same if government or parents didn't provide healthcare?

    I grew up with in a simple lifestyle. Shoot, we used a 2 x 4 to prop against our door on the outside to keep it closed. I don't have to do that anymore. But the super wealthly lifestyle doesn't appeal to everyone. Freedom use to appeal to people, but it doesn't appeal to them as much anymore. Personally, I would love to by a catastrophic healthcare policy. Something that would cover a heart attack, or stroke, or cancer, etc. Let me pay for a broken arm, or a cold, etc. Thing is, that's illegal now. Government took that option away from me.

    These are my thoughts anyway... I'm only giving it because I know at least you read them.
    You might be surprised at how many people read your posts. There are a handful of people that I look for to read. You're one of them because your posts are so well thought out. And I like your approach to the scriptures.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    1984 and Animal Farm should be required reading today. It is uncanny how accurate they were/are in predicting the path that has been taken. Interesting enough, Orwell described himself as a Democratic Socialist.

    My single biggest issue(s) with any form of socialism, communism, etc. is the loss of individual/societal freedom combined with a dependence upon government. Those two go hand in hand. They will always lead to or follow moral corruption.
    True, all true, But capitalism is more than an opposition to socialism. It has it's own merits that should be discussed outside the scope of socialism.

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    I feel that part of the problem is that capitalism does not have a good spokesperson at this time. Ronald Reagan or Milton Friedman could communicate in clear language why capitalism was superior to socialism, and they did so regularly. Nobody in government or the private sector does anything like that anymore. Conservative leaning publications exist only for telling conservatives what they already believe to be true. They're not trying to make converts. Left leaning publications on the other hand are willing to convert everyone to the cause. And they're winning bigly. Where are the capitalist defenders? When was the last time someone said "Capitalism creates wealth, not just for the wealthy but for all society"? And "Capitalism has lifted man out of poverty so that now even the poor have more amenities than the wealthy did 100 years ago"? Why isn't someone telling kids that their beloved cell phones were created not by socialism, but by someone's desire to make money?
    We don't have the teachers/communicators in office we use to that's for sure! The media doesn't help either. I still remember Milton Friedman's being interviewed by Donahue! Man, what a great job Friedman did!!!! But Fenris, society has changed a lot. When Einstein was alive, his theories made front page news. The things we as a society follow these days are not anywhere like what they use to be. We rarely think anymore. Anyway, here's a link to a short answer by Friedman to government's responsibility to the poor.



    Here's a brief portion of the interview that Donahue did with Milton. Go to the 1:20 mark where Donahue asks Milton about the greed in capitalism. Friedman gives a great response!



    No one is selling our viewpoint, so is it any wonder that nobody outside of a shrinking number of conservatives ascribe to it?
    True. And those that can sell, are not quoted in our press nor widely read. I miss reading Thomas Sowell's columns. He was very good at writing proverbs. Here's one that I loved:

    “I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.” Thomas Sowell

    He could communicate well. He had some fantastic things to say about government economy (i.e. what motivated government departments when it comes to efficiency).
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    True, all true, But capitalism is more than an opposition to socialism. It has it's own merits that should be discussed outside the scope of socialism.
    Agreed. Capitalism has done more to raise people out of poverty than any other economic system ever tried by mankind.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    We don't have the teachers/communicators in office we use to that's for sure! The media doesn't help either. I still remember Milton Friedman's being interviewed by Donahue! Man, what a great job Friedman did!!!! But Fenris, society has changed a lot.
    That's true. The Right is worried about elections, but the Left is worried about all the days between elections. They've turned this into a culture war, and guess what? They're winning.


    In Harry Potter, Dumbledore doesn't want to lead the ministry of magic. He wants to lead the wizarding school and form young minds, because that's where the power lies. And guess what? He's right.

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    That's true. The Right is worried about elections, but the Left is worried about all the days between elections. They've turned this into a culture war, and guess what? They're winning.


    In Harry Potter, Dumbledore doesn't want to lead the ministry of magic. He wants to lead the wizarding school and form young minds, because that's where the power lies. And guess what? He's right.
    We often lose when the federal government gets involved in local matters. Schools should have never been federalized. That the government can take money from us, then dangle that money back with conditions, was something the founders never intended. It has become our downfall.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    That's true. The Right is worried about elections, but the Left is worried about all the days between elections. They've turned this into a culture war, and guess what? They're winning.


    In Harry Potter, Dumbledore doesn't want to lead the ministry of magic. He wants to lead the wizarding school and form young minds, because that's where the power lies. And guess what? He's right.
    The left has been much better at playing the long game than the right has. There's no debating that. It took a generation for the right to get as serious about the supreme court as the left has been. Will the right get as serious about education too? I have told my friends for a while that we needed another Reagan to teach like he did. Trump is a fighter and we needed him for this moment in time. But at some point, we need an educator/communicator to teach the country again about the values that made us what we are. Otherwise, we will lose it. We are already far down the rabbit hole. This country doesn't have much in common with the country that existed in the 80s. The left has hated America and her values for a long, long time.

    Sadly, the left has been so successful that they now talk about things that are "un-American". Sadly, 20 years ago, those "un-American" things were far more American than their ideals. That just goes to show how much this country has changed.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    The left has been much better at playing the long game than the right has. There's no debating that.
    Plus there's the weird phenomena that things tend liberal over time. What's the rule of thumb? "Any entity that isn't specifically conservative will eventually become liberal"? And it's true. Plus you can never completely get rid of leftist tendencies. Margaret Thatcher said something to the effect of "You can only ratchet it back, never completely rid yourself of it." She was a great conservative, and look at the UK now. Far to the left of us.

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    I think on social issues this is definitely true, except for abortion which overall my generation is more pro-life than previous. Part of the reason socialist economic ideas are more popular could be because accumulating wealth is not as motivating to mill/Z's as boom/X-ers. So a system which has less profit potential for individuals, but greater benefit to society as a whole, is viewed as the better option to us (I'm being very general).
    And because they have been taught "America = Bad!"
    And because a lot of Republicans have pretty much abandoned Conservative principles and ideals. It's hard to communicate what you don't truly believe and actions speak louder than words anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    Where the other side loses communication is in explaining how capitalism is better at solving community issues such as the environment, education, healthcare, etc. - especially when these things are being visibly neglected. Capitalism begs on the charity of individuals, but this philosophy seems to be failing with the opioid epidemic and life-ending college expenses. Typically the conservative response falls along the lines of "these aren't important issues", so voluntarily push us away to be naturally swept up by the likes of DemSoc.
    Again - A lot of Republicans have pretty much abandoned Conservative principles and ideals. It's hard to communicate what you don't truly believe and actions speak louder than words anyway.
    Conservatives feel just as strongly about social issues as anybody and know that not all social programs and systems are bad. They just know that that D.C. pretty much ruins everything it gets it's hands on so they don't want government in control of most of them besides Social Security and Welfare.

    The "Progressives on the other hand want government to control not just programs that help people but pretty much all aspects of society.

    What we've failed to communicate is that Socialism as a government system has killed more people than then World Wars have. That's where we've failed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    But when not dismissive, the conservative response is, "the market will solve it." This is a valid position even though poorly explained, I think. When con. politicians propose "tax cuts on the wealthy", this is misconstrued as pandering to greedy individuals over the wellbeing of the country. Instead the messaging should be something like, "better paying jobs allow for greater activism." As it is, younger generations are fine with living simpler than our parents did - as long as the air is clean, so to speak. Personal wealth would not be an effective motivator, even if it was believable.
    Agreed. Good points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    These are my thoughts anyway... I'm only giving it because I know at least you read them.
    Of course I do!

    I think you're selling yourself a bit short though. I'm sure a LOT of people read your posts they're just afraid to comment because they're afraid they'll get ganged up on by the mostly Republican/Conservative posters here.
    Day by day
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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Plus there's the weird phenomena that things tend liberal over time. What's the rule of thumb? "Any entity that isn't specifically conservative will eventually become liberal"? And it's true. Plus you can never completely get rid of leftist tendencies. Margaret Thatcher said something to the effect of "You can only ratchet it back, never completely rid yourself of it." She was a great conservative, and look at the UK now. Far to the left of us.
    The Iron Lady was awesome. Her and Reagan were made from the same cloth. The cycle, IMO, is one that is repeatable. We see it in the scriptures too. From bondage to freedom. From feedom to wealth. From weath to immorality. From immorality to bondage. and so on. When a country gets wealthy, they often throw off the values that got them there. Also, people no longer want to work hard. People even say things like "well, that illegal immigrant will do work Americans won't do". To which I say "hogwash". Let that American get hungry enough, and he'll do the work. But we don't let them get hungry enough. The government provides. In both the OT and the NT people had a choice... work or beg or go hungry. The law stated that enough grain was to be left for those that wished to glean. But if a person didn't get up and go glean, he/she went hungry. Government provision undermines this dynamic. Wealthy countries want to do something for the poor and rather than doing it through charity, they want to do it through government. That undermines the natural consquences to laziness, lack of education, etc. And so, the people get hooked on the heroin of government provision. They begin trusting in government rather than God. The moral fiber breaks down. The country becomes immoral. Over time, it becomes less wealthy. Eventually it ends up in bondage. Cycle, rinse, repeat.

    Daniel was very wise. He didn't want to develop a taste for unlawful food. Because he knew what Margaret Thatcher said was true. Once a taste is developed, it is not only hard to get rid of, it is impossible without the help of almighty God.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: AOC declares the end of the world is in 12 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Daniel was very wise. He didn't want to develop a taste for unlawful food. Because he knew what Margaret Thatcher said was true. Once a taste is developed, it is not only hard to get rid of, it is impossible without the help of almighty God.
    If we're appealing to God to make people throw off the voluntary shackles of slavery to big government, we might as well just pray for the messianic era already. Which observant Jews do, by the way.

    ...‘Therefore we hope in You, O Lord our God, to quickly witness the glory of Your strength, to remove idolatry from the land, and for the false gods be cut off, to repair the world under the kingdom of the Almighty. And all humanity will call in Your name to turn all the evildoers of the world to You. All inhabitants of the earth will recognize and know that it is to You that every knee bows and every tongue swears; before You they will bend and fall, and give honor to the glory of Your name. And they will all accept the yoke of Your kingdom, and You shall reign over them quickly and forever. As it says in your Torah: “The Lord will reign forever and ever” (Ex. 15:18). And it is said: “And the Lord shall be king over all the earth; and on that day the Lord will be one and His Name will be one.” (Zech. 14:9).

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