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Thread: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

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    who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Well, it's been asked a lot of times. But I'm looking at it once again. I think it is important to understand the language that sets up this particular vision. Israel entered into a wilderness in coming out of Egypt. But in the NT era the Church began with Jewish believers who were instantly thrust into a new kind of wilderness--a wilderness I call the Great Tribulation.

    It is said that Satan spewed a flood after the woman to destroy her. This was right after the man-child was snatched up to God. I believe the man-child was Christ, and that the flood from Satan was the Roman Army sent against Jerusalem. But the earth swallowed up the flood, which may indicate that as Jewish believers entered into the wilderness of Jewish Dispersion, the Roman Army was redirected at other targets, out in Europe.

    But this time period is the final 3.5 years of the age. Even though Israel has now been rebirthed as a state, the Jewish believers are still, in a sense, out in the wilderness, not yet accepted within the Jewish state as genuine advocates of Jewish religion. But Satan goes also after other believers in other countries. These are the other children of the Woman.

    The Woman is Israel, as a type of Eve. She gives birth to believing children, to the Jewish church, to Christ, and to Christians in other lands. After 3.5 years Satan will be defeated, and the Kingdom will come.

    I really have no idea how accurate my view may be? If it is true, it would require a very non-chronological sequence.

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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Well, it's been asked a lot of times. But I'm looking at it once again. I think it is important to understand the language that sets up this particular vision. Israel entered into a wilderness in coming out of Egypt. But in the NT era the Church began with Jewish believers who were instantly thrust into a new kind of wilderness--a wilderness I call the Great Tribulation.

    It is said that Satan spewed a flood after the woman to destroy her. This was right after the man-child was snatched up to God. I believe the man-child was Christ, and that the flood from Satan was the Roman Army sent against Jerusalem. But the earth swallowed up the flood, which may indicate that as Jewish believers entered into the wilderness of Jewish Dispersion, the Roman Army was redirected at other targets, out in Europe.

    But this time period is the final 3.5 years of the age. Even though Israel has now been rebirthed as a state, the Jewish believers are still, in a sense, out in the wilderness, not yet accepted within the Jewish state as genuine advocates of Jewish religion. But Satan goes also after other believers in other countries. These are the other children of the Woman.

    The Woman is Israel, as a type of Eve. She gives birth to believing children, to the Jewish church, to Christ, and to Christians in other lands. After 3.5 years Satan will be defeated, and the Kingdom will come.

    I really have no idea how accurate my view may be? If it is true, it would require a very non-chronological sequence.
    She is the whore described in Ezekiel chapter 16 & Revelation chapter 18 Jerusalem

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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Remember that the woman is left in the wilderness in chapter 12 and then in chapter 17 we find a woman Babylon the great also in the wilderness

    I believe she is Jerusalem at this point and we see in the verses below what becomes of her

    Revelation 17:16-17
    1And the ten horns which you [g]saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

    This is exactly what happened in history as Rome destroyed Jerusalem for Gods purpose

    I see the woman in revelation 12 as Israel but in 3 different views

    1-Rev 12:1
    Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.

    As described in genesis 38:9-11 Israel

    2-rev 12:5
    5She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne

    As Mary

    3-rev 12:13-17
    13Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus [c]Christ.

    As Jerusalem

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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Well, it's been asked a lot of times. But I'm looking at it once again. I think it is important to understand the language that sets up this particular vision. Israel entered into a wilderness in coming out of Egypt. But in the NT era the Church began with Jewish believers who were instantly thrust into a new kind of wilderness--a wilderness I call the Great Tribulation.

    It is said that Satan spewed a flood after the woman to destroy her. This was right after the man-child was snatched up to God. I believe the man-child was Christ, and that the flood from Satan was the Roman Army sent against Jerusalem. But the earth swallowed up the flood, which may indicate that as Jewish believers entered into the wilderness of Jewish Dispersion, the Roman Army was redirected at other targets, out in Europe.

    But this time period is the final 3.5 years of the age. Even though Israel has now been rebirthed as a state, the Jewish believers are still, in a sense, out in the wilderness, not yet accepted within the Jewish state as genuine advocates of Jewish religion. But Satan goes also after other believers in other countries. These are the other children of the Woman.

    The Woman is Israel, as a type of Eve. She gives birth to believing children, to the Jewish church, to Christ, and to Christians in other lands. After 3.5 years Satan will be defeated, and the Kingdom will come.

    I really have no idea how accurate my view may be? If it is true, it would require a very non-chronological sequence.
    The Woman = Israel.

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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Woman = Israel.
    I agree with you. The fact she has a crown of 12 stars makes it unmistakable for me. It could conceivably refer to the 12 apostles, but I don't think so, because she appears in the guise of Eve, going back to ancient times.

    And so, ancient Israel appears to be in view, with the resulting 12 tribes. It is this Woman who gives birth to Christ, the man-child. And Israel also gives birth to the Early Church, which was the Jewish Church. And they, in turn, spawned the "other children," the international Church.

    And so, this Woman, even as Israel, was a kind of "Eve," who gave birth not just to her own Jewish people, but also, to an international set of people. Eve, after all, was the "Mother of all living," and not narrowly just the propagator of a narrow elite group of people, the Jews.

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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    She is the whore described in Ezekiel chapter 16 & Revelation chapter 18 Jerusalem
    Wow Marty, that threw me back! I never looked at the Woman in a negative light, because she seems to be the object of the Devil's wrath! Why would they Devil hate his own?

    Yes, I see the similarities in language between the Woman with 12 stars, and the Great Harlot. But could they not also be compared, both being women, and yet one being good and the other evil?

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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Remember that the woman is left in the wilderness in chapter 12 and then in chapter 17 we find a woman Babylon the great also in the wilderness

    I believe she is Jerusalem at this point and we see in the verses below what becomes of her

    Revelation 17:16-17
    1And the ten horns which you [g]saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

    This is exactly what happened in history as Rome destroyed Jerusalem for Gods purpose

    I see the woman in revelation 12 as Israel but in 3 different views

    1-Rev 12:1
    Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.

    As described in genesis 38:9-11 Israel

    2-rev 12:5
    5She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne

    As Mary

    3-rev 12:13-17
    13Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus [c]Christ.

    As Jerusalem
    There is a common thread in this approach, which I would address. There is this regular trashing of God's People who failed God. Whether Israel or the Catholic Church, there are those within Christianity who place a kind of barrier between themselves and the more "professional Church," or those who are purely "pretending People of God."

    I'm not at all saying there is no basis for this belief. Clearly, there is! I'm only saying this to confess that I have serious reservations about how far I should go with this kind of thinking, because it is so much less "evangelical," and tends to create walls of hostility between "them" and "us."

    It might be worth spending some time in figuring out how to be honest with those who are "professional Christians," or members in church organizations that are more superficial than real? And it might be worth trying to see how Israel, and the Jewish faith, may be brought back into alignment with what we may more legitimately call a "People of God?"

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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post

    I really have no idea how accurate my view may be? If it is true, it would require a very non-chronological sequence.
    I believe much of what you say is correct. I am uncertain of my own version too:
    The woman is ethnic Israel
    The man-child is Jesus (her first offspring)
    The "rest of her offspring" is the church (Jew and Gentile)

    Soon after Jesus ascended, ethnic Israel was dispersed into the nations. Israel remained unsafe even though some have returned to Israel. But there is a place somewhere in the nations where she will be kept safe during the GT. (I would like to think the USA, but I suspect not)

    The trigger event for the GT is the victory of our testimony, which is when Satan is taken out of the way in heaven , and hurled to earth, at the same timing as the sudden appearing of the antichrist.

    The earth is currently being rapidly polarised between Islam/liberals (such an unlikely alliance) and conservatives. Liberal Israel will stick with the antichrist in Israel and not be under threat (these "Jews" more likely Ashkenazi/Ukrainian descent). True ethnic/DNA Israel, the woman, who does not accept that the antichrist is the Lord's "anointed" will have to flee Israel. they will flee into the safe place in the wilderness for 3.5 years until their true Messiah arrives at the second coming. Germany and/or the USA will assist this rapid escape (the great eagle).

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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I believe much of what you say is correct. I am uncertain of my own version too:
    The woman is ethnic Israel
    The man-child is Jesus (her first offspring)
    The "rest of her offspring" is the church (Jew and Gentile)

    Soon after Jesus ascended, ethnic Israel was dispersed into the nations. Israel remained unsafe even though some have returned to Israel. But there is a place somewhere in the nations where she will be kept safe during the GT. (I would like to think the USA, but I suspect not)

    The trigger event for the GT is the victory of our testimony, which is when Satan is taken out of the way in heaven , and hurled to earth, at the same timing as the sudden appearing of the antichrist.

    The earth is currently being rapidly polarised between Islam/liberals (such an unlikely alliance) and conservatives. Liberal Israel will stick with the antichrist in Israel and not be under threat (these "Jews" more likely Ashkenazi/Ukrainian descent). True ethnic/DNA Israel, the woman, who does not accept that the antichrist is the Lord's "anointed" will have to flee Israel. they will flee into the safe place in the wilderness for 3.5 years until their true Messiah arrives at the second coming. Germany and/or the USA will assist this rapid escape (the great eagle).
    Here, for once, we may have some agreement. As I said, I'm unsure. But we have important points of agreement. Let me just share some areas of uncertainty I have with your position.

    I agree that the "other children" of the Woman are Jewish and Gentile believers. These are children who are "other children" in comparison with Christ as her "man child."

    At the same time, the Woman remains distinct from her children, ie from Christ and from other Christians. This appears to distinguish believers in other countries from believers in Israel.

    I do think it possible that the "wilderness" may indicate an unfulfilled state of Israel even if she is in her land. I know that wasn't true when Israel came out of Egypt. She was in the desert wilderness before she came into her land inheritance.

    But in this sense we may be speaking of a condition of national unfulfillment. Israel may be in her land and yet still in the wilderness of Jewish Diaspora, ie unfulfilled as a Christian nation. Just a thought...

    As far as "Satan taken out of the way in heaven," I agree that Satan is thrown out of heaven. But I think "taken out of the way," as in 2 Thes 2, has to do with the removal of hindrance European governments present, preventing the rise of Antichrist. Once these governments are more amenable to the Antichrist, the restraint will be removed, and Antichrist will rise. And I agree--liberal governments in Europe are paving the way for this development, because they are completely removing all vestiges of Christianity from the old Roman culture.

    The "2 wings of the great eagle" may indeed represent Western assistance to Israel in the endtimes. Certainly the US, as well as the UK, have been a great aid to the Israeli cause! Thanks for your input on this!

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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Here, for once, we may have some agreement. As I said, I'm unsure. But we have important points of agreement. Let me just share some areas of uncertainty I have with your position.

    I agree that the "other children" of the Woman are Jewish and Gentile believers. These are children who are "other children" in comparison with Christ as her "man child."

    At the same time, the Woman remains distinct from her children, ie from Christ and from other Christians. This appears to distinguish believers in other countries from believers in Israel.

    I do think it possible that the "wilderness" may indicate an unfulfilled state of Israel even if she is in her land. I know that wasn't true when Israel came out of Egypt. She was in the desert wilderness before she came into her land inheritance.

    But in this sense we may be speaking of a condition of national unfulfillment. Israel may be in her land and yet still in the wilderness of Jewish Diaspora, ie unfulfilled as a Christian nation. Just a thought...
    Regarding the woman, I find your wording appears a little ambiguous. I am not clear whether you include Jewish believers within the woman, or within the "other children".

    In the past I held the same thoughts that the return to Israel could be this return to her future "safe place". I am still unsure of this, but for a couple of reasons I would now place the wilderness as outside of Israel:
    1) Firstly the woman flees away INTO the wilderness suggesting it to be Gentile nations, the diaspora.
    2) Antiochus Epiphanes was a good forerunner to the antichrist situation, where many compromised with the local religion of the time (Hellenistic), and a few stayed loyal to Judaism. I suspect the antichrist to be an Islamic compromise, the loyal undergo persecution like Antiochus time. They are protected, because they escape.
    3) wilderness is not an apt word for their original Holy Land

    That argument is not conclusive but I think is enough to make one think. Jews have often had safe havens , and the USA is certainly one now, but it is fascinating to speculate where this final safe haven will be. During the time of the second coming/restoration of Israel there is the strange chapter (Isaiah 18) of a land south of Ethiopia. A tall smooth (white?) skinned people of strange speech (Afrikaans?) and whirring wings (military helicopters?) who bring their gifts (Jews?) to Israel. I sometimes wonder if my own country will one day be a safe haven for Jews. Very speculative I know.

    As far as "Satan taken out of the way in heaven," I agree that Satan is thrown out of heaven. But I think "taken out of the way," as in 2 Thes 2, has to do with the removal of hindrance European governments present, preventing the rise of Antichrist. Once these governments are more amenable to the Antichrist, the restraint will be removed, and Antichrist will rise. And I agree--liberal governments in Europe are paving the way for this development, because they are completely removing all vestiges of Christianity from the old Roman culture.
    That is one way of looking at it. I see Satan removed at the same time as the restrainer is removed, both events occurring 3.5 years before the end. Sure it is possible that TWO entities are removed from their place at the same moment, involving an end to secrecy and the revealing of the antichrist, but from my perspective they certainly look like the same thing.

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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    For those who take scripture at what is plainly said, 2nd Peter 1:20 is binding. It reads; "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation". Man is exquisitely damaged from the fall. The Holy Spirit sees him thus; "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). Thus, the interpreting of God's holy Writ is not left to the human mind. It must be interpreted with scripture and and not man's thoughts. With this in mind, it is praiseworthy that Bible scholars have set about explaining the Woman of Revelation Chapter 12 with Jacob's dream of Genesis Chapter 37. But in their zeal they grasp at small things and ignore the big. There are HUGE differences which, if ignored, lead to the wrong understanding, and if embraced, go a long way to show the correct meaning.

    Let us see if we can, after close examination, make an interpretation from Genesis 37.

    Joseph's dreams were to show him that ultimately he would rule over his brethren. In the second dream he saw the sun, the moon and eleven stars bow down to him. If the brothers were stars, and Joseph was a brother, we would, by default, have 12 stars. And that is ALL we have in similarity to Revelation Chapter 12. One things is immediately clear. If the moon was Joseph's mother then ONLY Rachel is meant. But Israel came from FOUR WOMEN. So all Israel is not shown by this dream. But what is shown is that the sun, the moon and the twelve stars represented the TOTALITY OF GOD'S PEOPLE at that time. That is the only similarity to Revelation Chapter 12. In Revelation Chapter 12 we have;
    1. A "sign". That is, the Woman is REPRESENTATIVE
    2. A sign "in heaven". This fact already sinks any attempt to make the Woman Israel for Israel do not aspire to heaven. Their hope and destiny is the Land of Canaan. They are not even raptured to the sky. Israel is a great and populous nation, but they are "as the sand of the sea shore" - EARTHLY. They have no connection to heaven.
    3. A "Woman". In Israel the male ruled and the male inherited. So this Woman is for something else - seed. She brings forth THREE SEEDS. Thus, her primary task is MOTHER.
    4. A woman "clothed" with the sun. In Genesis 37 Jacob IS the sun, but the Woman of Revelation 12 is NOT the sun.
    5. The "sun". Here, if we are true to 2nd Peter 1:20 we only have Jacob from Genesis 37 as a the sun. But in many cases the "sun" in Parable speaks of our Lord Jesus. In Malachi 4:2 He is the "SUN of righteousness". This thought is anchored in Matthew 13:43. "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father .... ." So the Woman has a "garment" which is "Christ's righteousness". See also Revelation 19:8. Only the Church has Christ's righteousness. Israel have their own righteousness (i) from the Law, and (ii) because they refused Christ.
    6. The moon under her feet. In Genesis 37 Rachel was the moon. But not so here. Here, the moon is the Woman's footstool. The moon is a dead planet that can only REFLECT the sun. It has no light of its own. This fits Israel perfectly. By their righteous adherence to God's Law they can REFLECT God's righteousness without having it themselves.
    7. "Upon her head a CROWN". A "crown" is for ruling. Do Israel get to rule. NO! The Kingdom is taken away from them (Matt.21:43). 12 Apostles - Christians - sit on 12 thrones ruling 12 tribes of Israel when Christ returns. The "crown" is made of stars. We have one more reference to this in 1 Corinthians 15:40-42 - the Chapter on resurrection. And there we learn that in resurrection some will have "celestial" glory, while others only "terrestrial" glory. One of heaven and one of the earth. And then in verse 41 it says; "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory." This verse pertain to the Woman of Revelation 12 FAR MORE than Genesis 37. Here we have the resurrection of people connected with this Woman. And the "Sun" is present, obviously Christ, the moon, as already established Israel REFLECTING God's righteousness by the Law, and then those that will rule - the stars - heavenly men who will rule. The "stars of heaven will rule" and that was one seed of Abraham, and the "sand of the sea shore" - earthly, will NOT rule.
    8. She is "with child". Only this child is recorded as being delivered in pain and under threat of the Devil. The Woman has TWO other seeds in that Chapter, but there is no record of PAIN.
    9. The Woman has THREE SEEDS. (i) The Man-Child, delivered in pain and under threat. (ii) Seed that "has the testimony of Jesus Christ". Only Christians can claim this. But far from subduing the Dragon, these Christians must FLEE. (iii) Seed that "keeps the Commandments of God (not Christ). Moses spoke the commandments of God in five Books. The Christian must obey Christ's commandments (Jn.15:14). The Holy Spirit is given to bring CHRIST'S Commands to the Christian (Jn.14:26). On the Mount of Transfiguration the Father thunders from heaven, "HEAR HIM" meaning our Lord Jesus (Matt.17:5). Thus, "those who keep the commandments of God" are Israelites!
    10. TWO Seeds must flee the Dragon and the Beast. They are OVERCOME! But the Man-Child OVERCOMES. The Man-Child can only be ONE of TWO. Christ will rule the nations with a rod of iron (Rev.19:15). The Overcoming Christians will also (Rev.2:27).

    Which one is the Man-Child? FOUR proofs are available;
    1. The rapture of the Man Child is connected with Satan being cast from heaven, in which case he only has "a LITTLE time left" - that is, the end of the age
    2. The rapture of the Man-Child is connected with the Kingdom of God - the end of the age
    3. The rapture of the Man-Child is connected with "THEY" and "THEIR" in verse 10
    4. The rapture of the Man-Child is connected with men (plural) who applied the blood of the Lamb, and loved not "THEIR" soul-lives - PAIN!

    The Man-Child is PLURAL, is connected to the end of the age, and is connected with the arrival of the Kingdom of God - the arrival of Christ from heaven. THEY MUST BE THE OVERCOMING CHRISTIANS.

    And if so, then the Woman's THREE Seeds make up a REPRESENTATIVE TOTALITY of ALL GOD'S PEOPLE
    1. The Overcomers - those Christians who followed Christ until they experienced the death of their souls
    2. Those whose testimony is Christ but who are overcome - slothful Christians
    3. Those who keep the commandments of God - the REMNANT of Israel who were predicted in Deuteronomy 30:1-5 and reconfirmed in Romans 11

    The context of Galatians 4:22-30 is the Church and Israel as antagonists.
    • One, Israel, is in bondage to the Law - One, the Church, is free of the Law
    • One is by the efforts of the flesh - One is by intervention of the Holy Spirit in a barren woman
    • One is a bond servant - One is HEIR
    • One is in bondage to the covenant of Sinai (Law) - One is subject to the Covenant of PROMISE given to Abraham
    • Israel is first, but will not reign (Matt.21:43) - The Church is last and will reign and inherit

    TWO antagonists. But then verse 26 makes an astounding statement. "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of US ALL." Now "US ALL" according to the context is BOTH the Church AND Israel. What Galatians 4 is saying is that DESPITE the Church and Israel being antagonists, we BOTH have our origin in God. We both have the same MOTHER. So the Woman in Revelation Chapter 12 is NOT Israel. She is NOT Mary. She is NOT Rachel. SHE IS NEW JERUSALEM!

    • She is heavenly in origin - but takes her place on earth
    • She has the righteousness of Christ as her garment
    • She has a crown for ruling
    • She has "stars" to bring heavenly rule
    • She has as her footstool Israel - the moon reflecting God's righteousness by Law
    • She has brought forth THREE SEEDS - all having their origin in God
    • She is found again in Romans Chapter 11 in the Olive Tree, the Root that is holy, natural branches cut off but later re-instated, and wild branches grafted in but in danger of being cut off again
    • She is found in Galatians Chapter 4 - Mother of us all
    • She is found in Revelation Chapter 21 and 22 - A City in heaven, A Woman with the glory of God, a Bride for Christ, Walls made out of Christians, Gates made out of Israel and Christ in the center as the River of Life and the Tree of Life

    The proofs are overwhelming!

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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Regarding the woman, I find your wording appears a little ambiguous. I am not clear whether you include Jewish believers within the woman, or within the "other children".

    In the past I held the same thoughts that the return to Israel could be this return to her future "safe place". I am still unsure of this, but for a couple of reasons I would now place the wilderness as outside of Israel:
    1) Firstly the woman flees away INTO the wilderness suggesting it to be Gentile nations, the diaspora.
    2) Antiochus Epiphanes was a good forerunner to the antichrist situation, where many compromised with the local religion of the time (Hellenistic), and a few stayed loyal to Judaism. I suspect the antichrist to be an Islamic compromise, the loyal will have to escape.
    3) wilderness is not an apt word for their original Holy Land

    That argument is not conclusive but I think is enough to make one think. Jews have often had safe havens , and the USA is certainly one now, but it is fascinating to speculate where this final safe haven will be.



    That is one way of looking at it. I see Satan removed at the same time as the restrainer is removed, both events occurring 3.5 years before the end. Sure it is possible that TWO entities are removed from their place at the same moment, involving an end to secrecy and the revealing of the antichrist, but from my perspective they certainly look like the same thing.
    You can read about some of the early beginnings of the woman here..
    How can you pull down strongholds of Satan if you don't even have the strength to turn off your TV?

    ~ Leonard Ravenhill



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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    You can read about some of the early beginnings of the woman here..
    Jude I would certainly associate that link with the whore of Babylon, Rev 17/18. But she is a different entity to the woman that gives birth to the man-child and has 12 stars as per Rev 12.

  14. #14

    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Things to consider:
    1) woman = Zion (Jerusalem, the mother of us all)
    2) man child = Christ
    3) caught up unto God and throne = Christ crucifixion
    4) woman fled into the wilderness = 3-1/2 years of Jesus ministry.
    5) war in heaven = Attempts to kill Jesus as a baby and at other times before his time on the cross.
    6) And prevailed not = Via Jesus victory on the cross
    7) And they overcame = by the blood of the Lamb
    8) woman were given two wings of a great eagle = The Old Testament and the New Testament
    9) earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood = Earth that has (in it) the blood of Jesus, protects the remnant of the woman's seed.

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    Re: who is that Woman in the wilderness?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Wow Marty, that threw me back! I never looked at the Woman in a negative light, because she seems to be the object of the Devil's wrath! Why would they Devil hate his own?

    Yes, I see the similarities in language between the Woman with 12 stars, and the Great Harlot. But could they not also be compared, both being women, and yet one being good and the other evil?

    She was in the good light in the first 2 forums in chapter 12 as Israel & Mary but then diverted away from God

    Satan does also hate his own like in the verse below

    Rev 17:16-17
    16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled.


    Here is a question to make you think.

    If the woman is protected for a 3 1/2 years in the wilderness in chapter 12 what happens to her after the 3 1/2 years?

    The only other mention of a woman in the wilderness in the book of revelation is in chapter 12

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