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Thread: Baptism must be done as an adult - "as an appeal to God for a good conscience,"

  1. #16
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    Re: Baptism must be done as an adult - "as an appeal to God for a good conscience,"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alert View Post
    One becomes accoutable for their sins, when God no longer considers them to be a child, and now considers them to be an adult. So that would be around puberty, when becomes able to have children. I base this on my personal experience. But also I'm sure others have determined this as well. For example, I went through catechism class at about the same age, and so have many others.
    I'm not trying to hassle you but lets learn from this thread:
    when God no longer considers them to be a child, and now considers them to be an adult.
    What scripture would you utilize to support this statement?

    So that would be around puberty, when becomes able to have children. I base this on my personal experience.
    What scripture would you utilize to support this statement? Are we gonna raise culture in your statement as well because if a 30 year old man takes a 13 year old girl as a wife... is she or he sinning when they have intercourse?

    Can the man say, "God considers this child to be an adult at 13", to justify his marriage?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  2. #17

    Re: Baptism must be done as an adult - "as an appeal to God for a good conscience,"


    Would this be similar to The commandment of Peter - to repent and be baptized in the Name Of The Lord Yahoshua, The Anointing. ?

    Yet we see that a baby or a child has no understanding of repentance - AND The Bible never commaunrepentant the un - repentant.

    Would this be like going around the corner and dragging a sleeping man to the priest and baptizing him while He is sleeping and he never knows anything about it and heads he then back down the road of sin, never knowing the gospel or that He is sinning ? and the Catholics everywhere are satisfied that the sleeping man has been completely baptized as they chase Him down saying gaga goo goo - peek a boo, a million time, over and over and over.

    The man would not know what they were saying or what it meant. Sometimes even when people have the most sincere and dedicated of hearts with the best intentions, it can be frustrating trying to explain things about the Bible when they are taught by their spiritual fathers - to lower the level of understanding and the scriptures to such a state.

    Also, Trinity Baptism was introduced by the Roman Catholic Church. - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA reads the following...

    ...There has been theological controversy over the question as to whether baptism in the name of Christ only was ever held valid. St. Paul commands disciples at Ephesus to be baptized in Christ's name:

    "They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." In Acts 10, St. Peter ordered others to be baptized "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ". Philip ordered to baptized in the name of Jesus Christ". We have the explicit command of Peter "Be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins (Acts, ii).

    Pope Stephen required an explicit mention of the Trinity in baptism, for he quotes the pontiff as declaring that the sacramental grace is conferred because a person has been baptized "with the invocation of the names of the Trinity, Father & Son & Holy Ghost" - (Labbe, Conc., VI).

    Here the Catholics acknowledged that baptism was changed by the Catholic Church. – Vol. 2, pg. 263.

    “And whatever you do, in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him (Col 3:17

  3. #18
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    Re: Baptism must be done as an adult - "as an appeal to God for a good conscience,"

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  4. #19
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    Re: Baptism must be done as an adult - "as an appeal to God for a good conscience,"

    Quote Originally Posted by GOD WE TRUSTED View Post

    Would this be similar to The commandment of Peter - to repent and be baptized in the Name Of The Lord Yahoshua, The Anointing. ?

    Yet we see that a baby or a child has no understanding of repentance - AND The Bible never commaunrepentant the un - repentant.

    Would this be like going around the corner and dragging a sleeping man to the priest and baptizing him while He is sleeping and he never knows anything about it and heads he then back down the road of sin, never knowing the gospel or that He is sinning ? and the Catholics everywhere are satisfied that the sleeping man has been completely baptized as they chase Him down saying gaga goo goo - peek a boo, a million time, over and over and over.

    The man would not know what they were saying or what it meant. Sometimes even when people have the most sincere and dedicated of hearts with the best intentions, it can be frustrating trying to explain things about the Bible when they are taught by their spiritual fathers - to lower the level of understanding and the scriptures to such a state.

    Also, Trinity Baptism was introduced by the Roman Catholic Church. - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA reads the following...

    ...There has been theological controversy over the question as to whether baptism in the name of Christ only was ever held valid. St. Paul commands disciples at Ephesus to be baptized in Christ's name:

    "They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." In Acts 10, St. Peter ordered others to be baptized "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ". Philip ordered to baptized in the name of Jesus Christ". We have the explicit command of Peter "Be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins (Acts, ii).

    Pope Stephen required an explicit mention of the Trinity in baptism, for he quotes the pontiff as declaring that the sacramental grace is conferred because a person has been baptized "with the invocation of the names of the Trinity, Father & Son & Holy Ghost" - (Labbe, Conc., VI).

    Here the Catholics acknowledged that baptism was changed by the Catholic Church. – Vol. 2, pg. 263.

    “And whatever you do, in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him (Col 3:17
    That sounds like Oneness Pentecostalism. I see nothing wrong with Trinitarian Baptism, since we see it in Scriptures.

    Matt 28.19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

  5. #20
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    Re: Baptism must be done as an adult - "as an appeal to God for a good conscience,"

    When my daughter was a child, the pastor refused to baptize her, because he indicated "she is not ready." Looking back now, I can see that my daughter determined to follow through with the family religion, but did not really have a commitment to the Christian lifestyle. So the pastor may have been right.

    However, I wouldn't prevent anybody from participating in a public ritual declaring their intention to live as a Christian, whether they fully understand or not. I would accept a nominal Christian's choice to follow Christianity in any limited understanding of what it means to be a Christian. I would also accept children being dedicated, in baptism, to the Christian faith, before the child even understands what Christianity is. And I certainly wouldn't prevent a child, who claims to be a Christian, from participating in Christian Baptism.

    But in its most genuine form, I think Baptism was intended to be for adults, who had not been living Christian lives, who were publicly committing to a change of life. It was a public confession, intended to announce to the world that they were leaving their nonChristian lives behind them.

    If someone who was baptized before fully understanding what Christianity is, whether young or not, they can always get re-baptized when they come to a better understanding. When our lives do not match up to our public commitment, then we can simply make a new public confession, admitting that we didn't understand the 1st time.

  6. #21
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    Re: Baptism must be done as an adult - "as an appeal to God for a good conscience,"

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I certainly wouldn't prevent a child, who claims to be a Christian, from participating in Christian Baptism.
    Religion and religious people would and do reject baptism for the youth. Based on experience in counseling with people, the enemy utilizes the rejection against our youth for the building of strongholds in effort to turn the youth against God. Rejection is one of the top key-stones utilized to a stronghold in a person.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  7. #22
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    Re: Baptism must be done as an adult - "as an appeal to God for a good conscience,"

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Religion and religious people would and do reject baptism for the youth. Based on experience in counseling with people, the enemy utilizes the rejection against our youth for the building of strongholds in effort to turn the youth against God. Rejection is one of the top key-stones utilized to a stronghold in a person.
    Yes, I think rejection from the churches we attended have really hurt both my daughter and my wife. I try not to delve too deeply into my anger towards my fellow Christians, since I've done enough of that already. I could have you screaming mad, but I defer to love instead...

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Religion and religious people would and do reject baptism for the youth. Based on experience in counseling with people, the enemy utilizes the rejection against our youth for the building of strongholds in effort to turn the youth against God. Rejection is one of the top key-stones utilized to a stronghold in a person.
    Yes, I think rejection from the churches we attended have really hurt both my daughter and my wife. I try not to delve too deeply into my anger towards my fellow Christians, since I've done enough of that already. I could have you screaming mad, but I defer to love instead...

  8. #23
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    Re: Baptism must be done as an adult - "as an appeal to God for a good conscience,"

    When looking at scripture its pretty apparent that Baptism was a very important part of the process. There isn't a signal NT conversion that it didn't happen in... I think if one just ignores it and writes it off may have other issues. I think a lot of 2nd Kings 5 as a good parallel thought to it. 2nd Kings 5:13 "Naahams servants came near and spoke to him, and said, “My father, if the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, ‘Wash, and be clean’?” " I think baptism is just the same... its a simple act that doesn't seem significant or magical in our eyes but if God asks for something so simple why not?

    When looking at scripture its pretty apparent that Baptism was a very important part of the process. There isn't a signal NT conversion that it didn't happen in... I think if one just ignores it and writes it off may have other issues. I think a lot of 2nd Kings 5 as a good parallel thought to it. 2nd Kings 5:13 "Naahams servants came near and spoke to him, and said, “My father, if the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, ‘Wash, and be clean’?” " I think baptism is just the same... its a simple act that doesn't seem significant or magical in our eyes but if God asks for something so simple why not?
    Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

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