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Thread: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

  1. #91
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird View Post
    ok so we have a women having a baby early but other than that no harm, in other words a perfect birth, and the other if the baby dies its life for life.
    if this is what it means, why are the men being fined when a baby is born with no harm? sorry but that makes no sense at all.
    Yes, now you’ve got it. If the baby dies, clealy, not as much harm happened, a fine.

    But if baby dies it’s wound for wound including death. Babies are only viable for a short period prior to birth but if can happen. Brother Mark explained it well in a previous post.

    Questions: Would you feel better if you caused a car accident and an expantanct Mother did not lose her baby? Of course, I sure would.

    Conversely, if you caused a car accident and the Mother you hit lost her child, how would you feel?

    The law also sees it this way. You would charged with manslaughter or even murder if baby dies.
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  2. #92
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird View Post
    ok so we have a women having a baby early but other than that no harm, in other words a perfect birth, and the other if the baby dies its life for life.
    if this is what it means, why are the men being fined when a baby is born with no harm? sorry but that makes no sense at all.
    If it is not her time to deliver and the trauma to her body incites an early delivery, it cannot be a perfect birth. The offending man is fined perhaps as a reminder to keep him from brawling enough to cause a woman to go into labor. Or to help pay for services to the household while the mother's attention is solely focused on that premature baby. Someone else may have to cook for them.

    It's like a drunkard who goes off the road and wrecks his own car. No one was hurt. But he's given a ticket for drunk driving anyway as a deterrent from doing that again.

    I believe that God has a hand in the entire development of a fetus in the womb, including the soul. What is that exact mechanism by which he impart a soul to a fetus - I don't know. But I know this. The breathe the Bible speaks of is the breath of life. And fetuses are alive in the womb. Life, from God, in the womb.

    And as I believe that babies go to heaven because they (1) they cannot receive a general revelation about God [such as viewing the stars or watching honeybees and being in awe] and (2) even if they could they, whether in the womb or out of it, have no ability to process that revelation and understand that there is a God who needs the satisfaction of his wrath met...…


    …...I, ergo, cannot believe that one such fetus or 2-year-old will not go to heaven. And to go to heaven, one must have a soul.
    ".....it's your nickel"

  3. #93
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    If it is not her time to deliver and the trauma to her body incites an early delivery, it cannot be a perfect birth. The offending man is fined perhaps as a reminder to keep him from brawling enough to cause a woman to go into labor. Or to help pay for services to the household while the mother's attention is solely focused on that premature baby. Someone else may have to cook for them.

    It's like a drunkard who goes off the road and wrecks his own car. No one was hurt. But he's given a ticket for drunk driving anyway as a deterrent from doing that again.

    I believe that God has a hand in the entire development of a fetus in the womb, including the soul. What is that exact mechanism by which he impart a soul to a fetus - I don't know. But I know this. The breathe the Bible speaks of is the breath of life. And fetuses are alive in the womb. Life, from God, in the womb.

    And as I believe that babies go to heaven because they (1) they cannot receive a general revelation about God [such as viewing the stars or watching honeybees and being in awe] and (2) even if they could they, whether in the womb or out of it, have no ability to process that revelation and understand that there is a God who needs the satisfaction of his wrath met...…


    …...I, ergo, cannot believe that one such fetus or 2-year-old will not go to heaven. And to go to heaven, one must have a soul.




    This is the only good that happens out of the whole torrid affair.
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  4. #94
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    [QUOTE=jaybird;3489086]breath of life 3rd example

    Job 34: 14-15
    If he should set his heart to it and gather to himself his spirit and his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust.

    Indeed, man has no understand of just how much God hold all of this together. All of it, even when we think we are “doing it”

    I liken this to a young child or rebellious teen and their parents. The child has no idea of responsibility, bills, cleaning up, working 40hrs per week, buying, preparing etc.... yet the child stands in defiance at times of their parent, thinking they can exist outside of their parents provisions.

    the flesh comes from this world, the mom and dad. and without the breath, His breath, the flesh is nothing. breathing starts at first breath.
    Totally different thing. This verse does not mean that without an actual physical breath, one is not alive. Context brother!
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  5. #95

    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    --Maybe something completely different.

    Why do we assume that 'misformed' has something to do with being damaged from without?

    Perhaps it is a grace to those who were fighting to not be accused of murder for a misformed child that would have been miscarried because it was already not forming well in the womb.

  6. #96

    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Here is another Bible Verse that says that there is wisdom when a baby is still inside the womb. Where there is wisdom, there is a mind.

    Psalm 51:6 NIV Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb; you taught me wisdom in that secret place.

    Then again, everyone agrees that the baby has a brain that thinks. Is having a conscious mind the same thing as having a soul or spirit?

  7. #97
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    What does God think of abortion?

    Shedding Innocent Blood


    Proverbs 6:16-19 ESV /

    There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

    Isaiah 59:7-8 ESV /

    Their feet run to evil, and they are swift to shed innocent blood; their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; desolation and destruction are in their highways. The way of peace they do not know, and there is no justice in their paths; they have made their roads crooked; no one who treads on them knows peace.

    Exodus 23:7 ESV /

    Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked.

    Genesis 9:6 ESV /

    “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.

    Proverbs 6:17 ESV /

    Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

    Exodus 20:13 ESV /

    “You shall not murder.

    2 Kings 21:16 ESV /

    Moreover, Manasseh shed very much innocent blood, till he had filled Jerusalem from one end to another, besides the sin that he made Judah to sin so that they did what was evil in the sight of the Lord.

    Deuteronomy 19:10 ESV /

    Lest innocent blood be shed in your land that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance, and so the guilt of bloodshed be upon you.

    Deuteronomy 27:25 ESV /

    “‘Cursed be anyone who takes a bribe to shed innocent blood.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’

    Matthew 27:24 ESV /

    So when Pilate saw that he was gaining nothing, but rather that a riot was beginning, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this man's blood; see to it yourselves.”

    Psalm 94:21 ESV /

    They band together against the life of the righteous and condemn the innocent to death.

    Genesis 4:10 ESV /

    And the Lord said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is crying to me from the ground.

    Jeremiah 22:17 ESV /

    But you have eyes and heart only for your dishonest gain, for shedding innocent blood, and for practicing oppression and violence.”

    Jeremiah 22:3 ESV /

    Thus says the Lord: Do justice and righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has been robbed. And do no wrong or violence to the resident alien, the fatherless, and the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place.

    Proverbs 6:17-19 ESV /

    Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

    Proverbs 6:16-17 ESV /

    There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

    1 Samuel 19:5 ESV /

    For he took his life in his hand and he struck down the Philistine, and the Lord worked a great salvation for all Israel. You saw it, and rejoiced. Why then will you sin against innocent blood by killing David without cause?”

    Jeremiah 2:34 ESV /

    Also on your skirts is found the lifeblood of the guiltless poor; you did not find them breaking in. Yet in spite of all these things

    Psalm 139:13-16 ESV /

    For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.


    Deuteronomy 27:24 ESV /

    “‘Cursed be anyone who strikes down his neighbor in secret.’
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  8. #98
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by goatherd View Post
    --Maybe something completely different.

    Why do we assume that 'misformed' has something to do with being damaged from without?

    Perhaps it is a grace to those who were fighting to not be accused of murder for a misformed child that would have been miscarried because it was already not forming well in the womb.
    Who gets to decide who is “misformed” enough to warrant being killed? Slippery slope indeed.

    Down Syndrome children live a wonderful life. There has also been many misdiagnosies prior to abortion. What a horror.
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  9. #99
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by greenonions View Post
    Here is another Bible Verse that says that there is wisdom when a baby is still inside the womb. Where there is wisdom, there is a mind.

    Psalm 51:6 NIV Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb; you taught me wisdom in that secret place.
    Good verse.

    Every person conceived since Adam was created has a soul, conscious or not.

    Then again, everyone agrees that the baby has a brain that thinks. Is having a conscious mind the same thing as having a soul or spirit?
    No, these are different things but tightly connected. One can be in a coma and still have a soul. It makes perfect sense to me that the second the sperm hits an egg, the soul is born.

    Albeit the host is in a very different place than you or I, as is the person in a coma.

    It takes time to grow the brain ( and therefore the “conscious” mind ) in the womb, when this happens only God knows.

    But the person as a whole, is still there.
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  10. #100
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    If it is not her time to deliver and the trauma to her body incites an early delivery, it cannot be a perfect birth. The offending man is fined perhaps as a reminder to keep him from brawling enough to cause a woman to go into labor. Or to help pay for services to the household while the mother's attention is solely focused on that premature baby. Someone else may have to cook for them.

    It's like a drunkard who goes off the road and wrecks his own car. No one was hurt. But he's given a ticket for drunk driving anyway as a deterrent from doing that again.

    I believe that God has a hand in the entire development of a fetus in the womb, including the soul. What is that exact mechanism by which he impart a soul to a fetus - I don't know. But I know this. The breathe the Bible speaks of is the breath of life. And fetuses are alive in the womb. Life, from God, in the womb.

    And as I believe that babies go to heaven because they (1) they cannot receive a general revelation about God [such as viewing the stars or watching honeybees and being in awe] and (2) even if they could they, whether in the womb or out of it, have no ability to process that revelation and understand that there is a God who needs the satisfaction of his wrath met...…


    …...I, ergo, cannot believe that one such fetus or 2-year-old will not go to heaven. And to go to heaven, one must have a soul.
    hard to believe no one understood it this way until recent years. also strange it coincides when abortion became the big political debate.

  11. #101

    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    Who gets to decide who is “misformed” enough to warrant being killed? Slippery slope indeed.

    Down Syndrome children live a wonderful life. There has also been many misdiagnosies prior to abortion. What a horror.
    I think you misread what I said.

    There is a child in the womb. There is a miscarriage because of a fight. If the child was well-formed, it is considered murder. If the child is mis-formed, then there is reasonable doubt that the miscarriage was not caused by the fight. Reasonable doubt is the issue, not the worth of the child.

    There was nothing in what I said that implied anything about warranting being killed.

  12. #102
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Numbers 5

    16 “And the priest shall bring her near and set her before the Lord. 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord and unbind the hair of the woman's head and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And in his hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, ‘If no man has lain with you, and if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while you were under your husband's authority, be free from this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray, though you are under your husband's authority, and if you have defiled yourself, and some man other than your husband has lain with you, 21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell. 22 May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

    this passage has a test for women accused of adultery, if guilty their womb is forced to miscarry.

  13. #103
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by goatherd View Post
    I think you misread what I said.

    There is a child in the womb. There is a miscarriage because of a fight. If the child was well-formed, it is considered murder. If the child is mis-formed, then there is reasonable doubt that the miscarriage was not caused by the fight. Reasonable doubt is the issue, not the worth of the child.

    There was nothing in what I said that implied anything about warranting being killed.
    Is “well formed” your word or the Bibles? ( in context )
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  14. #104
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird View Post
    hard to believe no one understood it this way until recent years. also strange it coincides when abortion became the big political debate.

    How do you know no one understood it this way?
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  15. #105
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird View Post
    Numbers 5

    16 “And the priest shall bring her near and set her before the Lord. 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord and unbind the hair of the woman's head and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And in his hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, ‘If no man has lain with you, and if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while you were under your husband's authority, be free from this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray, though you are under your husband's authority, and if you have defiled yourself, and some man other than your husband has lain with you, 21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell. 22 May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

    this passage has a test for women accused of adultery, if guilty their womb is forced to miscarry.
    Are you saying these verses gives the green light for abortion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    Is “well formed” your word or the Bibles? ( in context )

    I should clarify, “your meaning” or the Bibles?
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

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