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Thread: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

  1. #121
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird View Post
    and what are your thoughts on it? does a miscarry / abortion take place in the passage?
    It appears that it could. But this is a whole different thing what we are discussing.

    The fruit of sin is death.
    A cannot be A & not A at the same time.

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  2. #122
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Just wanted to add to this discussion, for any reading in the wings...

    Will God forgive a man or woman for having an abortion?

    Absolutely.
    A cannot be A & not A at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  3. #123
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    For me, this explains the Christian view nicely.

    https://youtu.be/8wURL0rVLbY

    Jaybird, what are your thoughts on this video?

    Life begins when something is born!

    When I became a Christian, I was born again, and life started back at ground zero, in many ways, I had to relearn the whole world ( through spiritual eyes that is 00 )
    A cannot be A & not A at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  4. #124
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    This is the only good that happens out of the whole torrid affair.
    This is not accurate. God could reach mom, dad and rest of the family though this ordeal, before and after. Not to mention all of us, nurses, doctors, supportive help... Let us pray that He does.

    This atrocity needs to be stopped however. I feel very passionate about this.

    I have seen things many have not! This is wrong

    We are killing our young before they are born -but they are ALIVE- silently, under cover. How could things be any worse?

    How can God ever let us stand as we are ?

    Its been said, two wrongs dont make a right.
    A cannot be A & not A at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  5. #125
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird View Post
    i agree 100 percent. we have no place to interfere with the creation process. once conception has taken place and the women is pregnant, there is no stopping the process once it has began.
    my point all along has nothing to do with advocating abortion, it has to do with when life begins and when we receive our soul. if all this begins at conception it makes birth and first breath rather meaningless and it leads to some problems with other scriptures as well, such as the generations should be beginning at conception rather than birth. and we know this is false.
    Thanks for clarifying. I think the point has been made pretty clear the importance from the womb. Just like we do now...the life is not numbered with the nation till the child is born. This does not change that the Lord knows them before this:

    Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

    I think the Lord creates living souls...the fact that you are not counted by men till you are born does not change the fact that the Lord already knows you.

    So the point is do you see a child the way the Lord sees a child or do you see a child as man sees a child?

  6. #126
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    Two different animals my friend. Adam was created fully formed, a man. God did what He does, to make him alive with a soul. A breath of life. I dont know what this actually entails.

    Adam wasnt pulled from thin air fully created, the Father formed him from dust just the same as we are formed in the womb.

    I agree, a very profound moment. Quite different tho, from a pregnancy.

    i dont think it makes any difference that Adam was not in a mothers womb, either way the Most High formed Adam just as He formed us. Adam breathed after the formation was complete, we breath after the formation is complete. IMO its not coincidence.
    So are you saying that in order there to be life, we need to be physically breathing with our actual lungs?

    If so, why do doctors test fetuses for life?
    is a doctors view of life the same as a believers? a person IMO is not complete without the spiritual part, its the most important pat as its the part that lives on, how many times do doctors check on the spiritual part of people, most do not care and the ones that do have to keep those opinions to themselves as its frowned on by the medical leaders.

  7. #127

    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    Here is what you said:..
    .
    If I keep it simple, at least I will understand what I say

    The verse has nothing to do with valuing the child differently at different stages, so it has nothing to do with determining an acceptable 'age' to kill the child. It is addressing the issue of reasonable doubt for purposes of culpability.

    And if I may call attention to my first post concerning the issue:
    It it INSANE that people who do not believe the Bible would use the Bible to convince people who do believe the Bible that it is OK to kill a child. It is even more insane for those claiming to be Christian to do it.

    Why do we even have this discussion when those who wish to kill children and prefer science over the Bible, when science says human life starts at conception.
    Abortionists don't care what the Bible says. Even if the Bible has nothing to say about it, science says it for us. All these little nuances that people argue over are irrelevant distractions to the issue.

    The only reason someone would use the Bible to justify abortion is to salve their own consciences. Misusing scripture is never a salve for the work of conviction by the Holy Spirit, so even after all the discussions they will still feel the conviction. "Thou shalt not kill" They can deal with it.

    So they contradict their own science and say it isn't a life.
    When the very nature of a woman is to grieve with a miscarriage, it is not a silly sentimentalism, but an actual grief at the loss of a life. Even non-Christian women know this by instinct.

    As soon as you convince them that the Bible does not condone murder of a child, then the argument shifts to something else because they do not care what the Bible says.

    Other issues they bring up in the Bible have nothing to do with justifying abortion. They are the most egregious distortions of God's words that there can be.

    The test for infidelity is a grace. The drink was not a magic potion. When nothing happened, guilty or not, falsely accused or not, the couple got a second chance and a second beginning. It does not condone abortion.

    The law permitting stoning of children did not condone murder. It too was a grace. When the parent was faced with such an option, they chose to love their children even with the infractions; just as God loves us even with our sin.

    Think of Solomon's wisdom in threatening to cut the child in two. He knew the nature of the real and false mothers and it was a test, not a real threat. These laws are the same. Solomon got his wisdom from the law of God.

    God and Solomon are both seen as mean and capricious because their wisdom is not understood and wicked people distort the Word of God to make them monsters.

    I hope that clarifies my position. I'll read it again later to see if I still understand it.

  8. #128
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    They already know its murder. No one really needs to convince anyone that killing a baby is murder.

    Its a depravity issue. Its a heart issue.

    Because God has given these minds over to depravity, its only going to get worse, and now born infants are murdered. In some counties contrary to the mothers wishes.

    I am talking about the policy makers, not all, as many are deceived combined with the other cultural pressures they live with and their own selfish desires. Jesus has a space for those who repent and turn to God.

    But the policy makers - I beleive they have fallen into the state Romans 1:28 refers to.

  9. #129
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Thanks for clarifying. I think the point has been made pretty clear the importance from the womb. Just like we do now...the life is not numbered with the nation till the child is born. This does not change that the Lord knows them before this:

    Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

    I think the Lord creates living souls...the fact that you are not counted by men till you are born does not change the fact that the Lord already knows you.

    So the point is do you see a child the way the Lord sees a child or do you see a child as man sees a child?
    the Lord knew Jeremiah not just before he was born but before the formation in the womb. that would be his spirit that was known to the Lord. when we pass on to the next world our flesh does not come with us, it parishes and what is left IMO is our true self.

  10. #130
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    So the point is do you see a child the way the Lord sees a child or do you see a child as man sees a child?
    This is the question for everything! Are we seeing things as the Lord sees them? Great post.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  11. #131
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird View Post
    hard to believe no one understood it this way until recent years. also strange it coincides when abortion became the big political debate.
    I don't know where you got this assumption from, but life in the womb hasn't been thought of recently.

  12. #132
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    Re: What God Thinks Of Abortion..

    Jaybird, you still have not touched on the context of the Genesis 2:7 verse. You focus on a "first breath" done by man is starting life while ignoring that "life" began at conception. Adam and Eve were not "conceived", they were created... read on.

    Look at the context of the verse, has nothing to do with man's first breath. Its all about God's first breath as a final element of the creation process. Then from man, God created woman. Then together, man and woman continue procreating BUT, here is where your understanding seems to "want" life to start at a first breath... your misunderstanding is man/woman are not "creating" life... they are PROCREATING life. When does a man and woman accomplish this procreation?

    When a baby is conceived! Meaning, life is continued at the moment of conception.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

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