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Thread: Demons

  1. #1

    Demons

    We have in our Gospel accounts lots demonic activity, I do not want to present my position or even discuss my position, But I've realised I do not understand the position the majority hold on certain key points and until I know and understand peoples positions I cant say I am understanding properly about things.

    So please help me out by presenting your point of view on a couple of things and give me a starting point to work on.

    1. Who are these demons and where did they come from?

    2. In the epistles Jude and Peter wrote, they talk about angels who sinned, but are now in chains, who and where did these come from?

    Please provide some scripture with your answers so I can read and follow along with your thoughts.

  2. #2
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    Re: Demons

    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    We have in our Gospel accounts lots demonic activity, I do not want to present my position or even discuss my position, But I've realised I do not understand the position the majority hold on certain key points and until I know and understand peoples positions I cant say I am understanding properly about things.

    So please help me out by presenting your point of view on a couple of things and give me a starting point to work on.

    1. Who are these demons and where did they come from?

    2. In the epistles Jude and Peter wrote, they talk about angels who sinned, but are now in chains, who and where did these come from?

    Please provide some scripture with your answers so I can read and follow along with your thoughts.
    Yes we do have our gospel accounts.. how about a personal account? Do this.. first ask the Lord if it his will then i suggest that you take another brother in Christ with you and both of you be thoroughly prayed up..Go to your nearest mental hospital on a visitors pass and start asking some of the patients if they know Jesus. Don't do this if you don't believe that you have power over the enemy or you may find yourself in dire straights..or you just might see some souls be set free..
    A man is in a great place when he has no one to turn to but God.

    ~ Smith Wigglesworth


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    Re: Demons

    Wow! Sound advice!

  4. #4

    Re: Demons

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Yes we do have our gospel accounts.. how about a personal account? Do this.. first ask the Lord if it his will then i suggest that you take another brother in Christ with you and both of you be thoroughly prayed up..Go to your nearest mental hospital on a visitors pass and start asking some of the patients if they know Jesus. Don't do this if you don't believe that you have power over the enemy or you may find yourself in dire straights..or you just might see some souls be set free..
    Any thoughts on these demons origins? are they from another planet or another creation? this creation? were they once angels? Cmon, give me something!

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    Re: Demons

    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    Any thoughts on these demons origins? are they from another planet or another creation? this creation? were they once angels? Cmon, give me something!
    Several times when Jesus was in the presence of a demon, they (plural) or it (singular) spoke in a manner of "knowing" Him. All these scriptures are some of the best to discern that demons were once in heaven and knew Jesus before His incarnation to the earth in the form of a man.

    Would you like a list of the verses or do you know of what scriptures I am referring.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: Demons

    I can only tell you what the Bible says.

    • The Bible says that the devil has his angels. Matthew 25:41 - “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." We call the devil's angels - demons.
    • Where did they come from? Revelation 12 says this: "And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth...……..And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him."


    The devil's demonic forces are the angels whom he deceived and took with him. They were all cast down to earth.

    So that makes them NOT aliens from another planet NOR a separate creation.

    As for what Jude has said, I do not believe that mental illness is demon possession. It CAN be. But there are far too many people in hospitals and on what he calls "mental wards" that are Christians for anyone to say it's all demon possesion. Christians cannot be possessed by the devil. Christians are the Temple of the Holy Spirit and Christians are in Christ Jesus.

    My pastor goes to our local hospital every Tuesday night and teaches and witnesses to the "mental" patients on their ward. Many of these people have undergone trauma, overdoses, accidents, rape/sexual abuse, brain damage due to what they may be exposed to and more. And yes, people with mental illness are occasionally suffering attacks of the devil by possession.

    As far as the Bible in Jude and Peter, we cannot say definitively why they are there as opposed to other demons who roam freely. We can only say what the Bible says - that these fallen angels [demons] "did not stay within their position of authority but left their proper dwelling."
    ".....it's your nickel"

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    Re: Demons

    Some believe demons are disembodied souls of the "giants" which the same people believe the giants came from fallen angels mating with human women, as it appears to say in Genesis 6.
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

  8. #8

    Re: Demons

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Several times when Jesus was in the presence of a demon, they (plural) or it (singular) spoke in a manner of "knowing" Him. All these scriptures are some of the best to discern that demons were once in heaven and knew Jesus before His incarnation to the earth in the form of a man.
    Yes, seems to make sense.

    Would you like a list of the verses or do you know of what scriptures I am referring.
    I think I know the ones to which you are referring.

    I would also like your timing as to when these angels fell to earth if you have one?

  9. #9

    Re: Demons

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    I can only tell you what the Bible says.

    • The Bible says that the devil has his angels. Matthew 25:41 - “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." We call the devil's angels - demons.
    • Where did they come from? Revelation 12 says this: "And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth...……..And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him."


    The devil's demonic forces are the angels whom he deceived and took with him. They were all cast down to earth.

    So that makes them NOT aliens from another planet NOR a separate creation.
    Cool, makes sense. Also when is the actual timing that they were cast down to earth?

    As for what Jude has said, I do not believe that mental illness is demon possession. It CAN be. But there are far too many people in hospitals and on what he calls "mental wards" that are Christians for anyone to say it's all demon possesion. Christians cannot be possessed by the devil. Christians are the Temple of the Holy Spirit and Christians are in Christ Jesus.
    Thanks

    My pastor goes to our local hospital every Tuesday night and teaches and witnesses to the "mental" patients on their ward. Many of these people have undergone trauma, overdoses, accidents, rape/sexual abuse, brain damage due to what they may be exposed to and more. And yes, people with mental illness are occasionally suffering attacks of the devil by possession.
    Makes sense.
    As far as the Bible in Jude and Peter, we cannot say definitively why they are there as opposed to other demons who roam freely. We can only say what the Bible says - that these fallen angels [demons] "did not stay within their position of authority but left their proper dwelling."
    In your opinion are these the same ones or group that fell following Satan or another group?

  10. #10

    Re: Demons

    Quote Originally Posted by Saved7 View Post
    Some believe demons are disembodied souls of the "giants" which the same people believe the giants came from fallen angels mating with human women, as it appears to say in Genesis 6.
    If I can get you to clarify are these the one and the same as in the gospel accounts?

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    Re: Demons

    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    In your opinion are these the same ones or group that fell following Satan or another group?
    Yes, I believe that these are some of the ones that fell with the devil from heaven or - were cast out as Revelation says. My reason for saying that is that is the only source of demons that are described in the Bible - the ones that fell with Satan.
    ".....it's your nickel"

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    Re: Demons

    They seem to represents the gods of ancient pagan peoples. The NT Scriptures acknowledge that they exist in the form of spirits. Apparently, they are fallen angels. People who worship them are under a curse, and end up getting sick or losing their prosperity.

    There is a lack of knowledge about them because so much of the OT Scriptures dealt with the contrast between God and idolatry. God wanted to turn His people away from worshiping false gods, and from getting involved in the works of darkness that end up getting them cursed. Indulgence in that is bad enough for pagans. For God's People to give up on God and to turn to these false gods is looking to get a beating! Why focus on that when we can focus on the truth, and on the one true God?

  13. #13

    Re: Demons

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    Yes, I believe that these are some of the ones that fell with the devil from heaven or - were cast out as Revelation says. My reason for saying that is that is the only source of demons that are described in the Bible - the ones that fell with Satan.
    Cool thanks, I have to keep asking for clarification so im not misunderstanding things, you believe one third of all the angels fell with Satan (rev 12) and some of them are the demons roaming around today and some of them are now in the pit (Jude :6)?

    Were they all roaming around at the time of Christ or at what time were some of them incarcerated? Also when is your timing of Revelation 12 if you have one for when the events took place if you have a timeline it would be great :-)

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    Re: Demons

    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    Yes, seems to make sense.

    I think I know the ones to which you are referring.

    I would also like your timing as to when these angels fell to earth if you have one?
    As for the timing. Simply I will say that satan was on the earth very soon after creation, otherwise he'd not be able to temp the first two humans. As for specifics of "soon" after, God said the creation was good, so there had to be time between that moment and the time satan temped mankind in the garden.

    As Jayne pointed out, Rev 12 details and supports that demons, along with satan are from heaven and were once angels.

    From our past discussions, I assume you've continued with a study and are working out your thoughts with this thread? Some believe that all demons are imprisoned per the Jude 6 verse. However, when you read on and find some more contexts, when you get to verse 13, there are "wandering stars" referred to also (divide this scripture with Isaiah 14:12). If you have not studied this, please do and if/when possible, post your thoughts on this context. My simple thought, some demons are locked up but the wandering stars are all those roaming the earth under satans domain as Paul details in Ephesians 6.

    Concerning any study of Jude 13, some also will say that wandering stars are "just" people who are false teachers (2 Peter 2) but we can't forget, scripture informs us also, that many are "false prophets" and what is a difference? One is just missled in knowledge and speaks falsehoods/misinterpretations (wolves/tares, etc) of scripture for self gain (prosperity) and self glorification. The other however, is empowered by supernatural forces and who actually do signs/wonders (counterfeit/imitation of course and true discernment of spirits helps ID what is of God or of satan - churches/Christians who believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ended, satan can operate freely around them). These "supernatural forces" again, are those detailed in Eph 6 and is a majority of the angels cast out and are now demons under satan's control. And yes, hauntings in the world ARE satan's demons, manifesting and mostly the lost world glamorize and even glorify this and even some Christians do too. All fortune tellers in the world that actually operate supernaturally (no parlor tricks), more demon activity (Acts 16).

    OK... I think I will blow out a fuse if I continue posting
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: Demons

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    As for the timing. Simply I will say that satan was on the earth very soon after creation, otherwise he'd not be able to temp the first two humans. As for specifics of "soon" after, God said the creation was good, so there had to be time between that moment and the time satan temped mankind in the garden.

    As Jayne pointed out, Rev 12 details and supports that demons, along with satan are from heaven and were once angels.

    From our past discussions, I assume you've continued with a study and are working out your thoughts with this thread? Some believe that all demons are imprisoned per the Jude 6 verse. However, when you read on and find some more contexts, when you get to verse 13, there are "wandering stars" referred to also (divide this scripture with Isaiah 14:12). If you have not studied this, please do and if/when possible, post your thoughts on this context. My simple thought, some demons are locked up but the wandering stars are all those roaming the earth under satans domain as Paul details in Ephesians 6.

    Concerning any study of Jude 13, some also will say that wandering stars are "just" people who are false teachers (2 Peter 2) but we can't forget, scripture informs us also, that many are "false prophets" and what is a difference? One is just missled in knowledge and speaks falsehoods/misinterpretations (wolves/tares, etc) of scripture for self gain (prosperity) and self glorification. The other however, is empowered by supernatural forces and who actually do signs/wonders (counterfeit/imitation of course and true discernment of spirits helps ID what is of God or of satan - churches/Christians who believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ended, satan can operate freely around them). These "supernatural forces" again, are those detailed in Eph 6 and is a majority of the angels cast out and are now demons under satan's control. And yes, hauntings in the world ARE satan's demons, manifesting and mostly the lost world glamorize and even glorify this and even some Christians do too. All fortune tellers in the world that actually operate supernaturally (no parlor tricks), more demon activity (Acts 16).

    OK... I think I will blow out a fuse if I continue posting
    I was writing as you posted your questions to Jayne and you raised Jude 6. I pray what I was writing, no posted, helps.

    Also, a point I wanted to make. satan has the monopoly when it comes to "false prophets." When demons are empowering "humans" and these humans are operating in the midst of the Body of Christ, they are called "false prophets" in the scriptures. However, satan doesn't stop there, take all the fortune tellers I mentioned in this post I posted... they are EXACTLY the same except satan uses them in the midst of the "secular" world. Both are doing false signs/wonders but the result is the same... lure people away from God and keep them away from God.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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