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Thread: Division of the Week

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    Lightbulb Division of the Week

    The ancient Hebrews realised that their lunar year needs adjustment an extra month added every third year or so to bring it into alignment with the sun. Therefore, it is not by coincidence that the Hebrew week of years was divided in half and called, a 'time, times and half a time.' This term is mentioned in the Bible often enough, but usually in a 'prophetic' setting. End-time writers mention it a lot, but I want to share the division of the week in its function as a calendar formula. I believe that it was different to how they do it now.

    The division occurred; it seems, on Israel's all-important festival, the Day of Atonement. The D.of A. was the 10th of the seventh month, but it should not be supposed an arbitrary date of religious significance only. When we count 3 years from the beginning of a Sabbatical cycle, it comes to a total of 1278 days (occasionally 1279 days) to the start of the D.of A. in the middle year.

    Now, this is interesting, because the number of days in 3 solar years is exactly the same. Check it out. There are 365 days in a year. Multiply by 3.5 and it will always come out on the Day of Atonement. So, the 10th of Tishri must have been a marker showing where the lunar calendar intersects with the solar.

    Next: What about the 1260 and 1290 days?
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    Re: Division of the Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    The ancient Hebrews realised that their lunar year needs adjustment – an extra month added every third year or so to bring it into alignment with the sun. Therefore, it is not by coincidence that the Hebrew ‘week’ of years was divided in half and called, a 'time, times and half a time.' This term is mentioned in the Bible often enough, but usually in a 'prophetic' setting. End-time writers mention it a lot, but I want to share the division of the week in its function as a calendar formula. I believe that it was different to how they do it now.

    The division occurred; it seems, on Israel's all-important festival, the Day of Atonement. The D.of A. was the 10th of the seventh month, but it should not be supposed an arbitrary date of religious significance only. When we count 3 years from the beginning of a Sabbatical cycle, it comes to a total of 1278 days (occasionally 1279 days) to the start of the D.of A. in the middle year.

    Now, this is interesting, because the number of days in 3 solar years is exactly the same. Check it out. There are 365 days in a year. Multiply by 3.5 and it will always come out on the Day of Atonement. So, the 10th of Tishri must have been a marker showing where the lunar calendar intersects with the solar.

    Next: What about the 1260 and 1290 days?
    How interesting! Now if I can just grasp the significance! Clearly, God did not have an O.C. complex!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    The ancient Hebrews realised that their lunar year needs adjustment an extra month added every third year or so to bring it into alignment with the sun. Therefore, it is not by coincidence that the Hebrew week of years was divided in half and called, a 'time, times and half a time.' This term is mentioned in the Bible often enough, but usually in a 'prophetic' setting. End-time writers mention it a lot, but I want to share the division of the week in its function as a calendar formula. I believe that it was different to how they do it now.

    The division occurred; it seems, on Israel's all-important festival, the Day of Atonement. The D.of A. was the 10th of the seventh month, but it should not be supposed an arbitrary date of religious significance only. When we count 3 years from the beginning of a Sabbatical cycle, it comes to a total of 1278 days (occasionally 1279 days) to the start of the D.of A. in the middle year.

    Now, this is interesting, because the number of days in 3 solar years is exactly the same. Check it out. There are 365 days in a year. Multiply by 3.5 and it will always come out on the Day of Atonement. So, the 10th of Tishri must have been a marker showing where the lunar calendar intersects with the solar.

    Next: What about the 1260 and 1290 days?
    How interesting! Now if I can just grasp the significance! Clearly, God did not have an O.C. complex!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    The ancient Hebrews realised that their lunar year needs adjustment an extra month added every third year or so to bring it into alignment with the sun. Therefore, it is not by coincidence that the Hebrew week of years was divided in half and called, a 'time, times and half a time.' This term is mentioned in the Bible often enough, but usually in a 'prophetic' setting. End-time writers mention it a lot, but I want to share the division of the week in its function as a calendar formula. I believe that it was different to how they do it now.

    The division occurred; it seems, on Israel's all-important festival, the Day of Atonement. The D.of A. was the 10th of the seventh month, but it should not be supposed an arbitrary date of religious significance only. When we count 3 years from the beginning of a Sabbatical cycle, it comes to a total of 1278 days (occasionally 1279 days) to the start of the D.of A. in the middle year.

    Now, this is interesting, because the number of days in 3 solar years is exactly the same. Check it out. There are 365 days in a year. Multiply by 3.5 and it will always come out on the Day of Atonement. So, the 10th of Tishri must have been a marker showing where the lunar calendar intersects with the solar.

    Next: What about the 1260 and 1290 days?
    How interesting! Now if I can just grasp the significance! Clearly, God did not have an O.C. complex!

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    Re: Division of the Week

    Here is a simple example. If we take the 1st Nisan of our recent year, 2000 AD, and add 1278 days, it arrives on 10 Tishri 2003, precisely 3 years later. Yes, my example is hypothetical, but we can apply this formula to any set of years for as many centuries you wish to throw at it. I kid you not.

    Here is a couple of takeaways before we get to the full significance:

    1. The Hebrew calendar was both lunar as well as solar. (the technical name is luni-solar)
    2. The 364-day year of Enoch, although an attempt get back to the original system, is not correct, because it is a solar calendar.
    3. Although a 2nd Adar is not explicitly mentioned in scripture, it is inferred, because 1278 contains an extra month. (42 + 1)
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    Re: Division of the Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Here is a simple example. If we take the 1st Nisan of our recent year, 2000 AD, and add 1278 days, it arrives on 10 Tishri 2003, precisely 3 years later. Yes, my example is hypothetical, but we can apply this formula to any set of years for as many centuries you wish to throw at it. I kid you not.

    Here is a couple of takeaways before we get to the full significance:

    1. The Hebrew calendar was both lunar as well as solar. (the technical name is ‘luni-solar’)
    2. The 364-day year of Enoch, although an attempt get back to the original system, is not correct, because it is a solar calendar.
    3. Although a 2nd Adar is not explicitly mentioned in scripture, it is inferred, because 1278 contains an extra month. (42 + 1)
    I get that there is this intersection of lunar and solar cycles takes place on the Day of Atonement. The 1st Adar (mid-year date) is reached by counting 1278 days from the 1st of Nisan (beginning of ecclesiastical year) to the 10th of Tishrei (Day of Atonement). You multiply 3.5 (years) x 365.25 (days in a year) = 1278 days. This is the intersection of lunar and solar cycles, taking place every 3.5 years, 1278 days after the 1st of Nisan, ending on the 10th of Tishrei (Day of Atonement).

    Please spell out clearly how this relates to Enoch's 364 day calendar! If his calendar is not correct, why are we dealing with it at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Here is a simple example. If we take the 1st Nisan of our recent year, 2000 AD, and add 1278 days, it arrives on 10 Tishri 2003, precisely 3 years later. Yes, my example is hypothetical, but we can apply this formula to any set of years for as many centuries you wish to throw at it. I kid you not.

    Here is a couple of takeaways before we get to the full significance:

    1. The Hebrew calendar was both lunar as well as solar. (the technical name is luni-solar)
    2. The 364-day year of Enoch, although an attempt get back to the original system, is not correct, because it is a solar calendar.
    3. Although a 2nd Adar is not explicitly mentioned in scripture, it is inferred, because 1278 contains an extra month. (42 + 1)
    I get that there is this intersection of lunar and solar cycles takes place on the Day of Atonement. The 1st Adar (mid-year date) is reached by counting 1278 days from the 1st of Nisan (beginning of ecclesiastical year) to the 10th of Tishrei (Day of Atonement). You multiply 3.5 (years) x 365.25 (days in a year) = 1278 days. This is the intersection of lunar and solar cycles, taking place every 3.5 years, 1278 days after the 1st of Nisan, ending on the 10th of Tishrei (Day of Atonement).

    Please spell out clearly how this relates to Enoch's 364 day calendar! If his calendar is not correct, why are we dealing with it at all?

    Sorry about the double posting. It's early here, and I keep forgetting to use "Go Advanced"

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    Re: Division of the Week

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk
    I get that there is this intersection of lunar and solar cycles takes place on the Day of Atonement. The 1st Adar (mid-year date) is reached by counting 1278 days from the 1st of Nisan (beginning of ecclesiastical year) to the 10th of Tishrei (Day of Atonement). You multiply 3.5 (years) x 365.25 (days in a year) = 1278 days. This is the intersection of lunar and solar cycles, taking place every 3.5 years, 1278 days after the 1st of Nisan, ending on the 10th of Tishrei (Day of Atonement).

    Please spell out clearly how this relates to Enoch's 364 day calendar! If his calendar is not correct, why are we dealing with it at all?
    I just threw in the bit about Enoch's calendar as an aside. You're right. We dont have to deal with it.

    One thing that could be elaborated on though, is how every 'Times, time and half a time' contains 42 + 1 (total 43) lunar months. Almost every end-time discussion on this subject quotes Revelation and postulates a 360-day year. Theories of 360 and/or 364-day years are wrong. I'll get to the 1260 and 1290 days shortly.
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    Re: Division of the Week

    Here’s the part that blew my head off when I counted the days on a computer lunar app called Hermetic systems.

    When we count from the end of the Day of Atonement 1260 days, it resets itself to the start of the Hebrew New Year Day, the 1st of Abib (Nisan) three and a half years later. So, the special festival in the middle year is actually a 'fulcrum' between two significant counts. Each 'time, times and half a time' had an additional month added to the 'base' 42 months, making 43 lunar months on both sides - a total of 86 lunar months altogether. Please examine the diagram taking note that the Day of Atonement stands independently between the two counts.

    Notice how the first ‘t, t, + t’ was precisely 3.5 solar years, but the second ‘t, t, + t’ was 1260 days. From what I can see, every Sabbatical cycle (week) follows this pattern.

    [IMG] http://5loaves2fishes.net/files/imag...etonic1260.svg [/IMG]

    Heres the part that blew my head off when I counted the days on a computer lunar app called Hermetic systems.

    When we count from the end of the Day of Atonement 1260 days, it resets itself to the start of the Hebrew New Year Day, the 1st of Abib (Nisan) three and a half years later. So, the special festival in the middle year is actually a 'fulcrum' between two significant counts. Each 'time, times and half a time' had an additional month added to the 'base' 42 months, making 43 lunar months on both sides - a total of 86 lunar months altogether. Please examine the diagram taking note that the Day of Atonement stands independently between the two counts.

    Notice how the first t, t, + t was precisely 3.5 solar years, but the second t, t, + t was 1260 days. From what I can see, every Sabbatical cycle (week) follows this pattern.

    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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    Re: Division of the Week

    So what we're seeing is that the 1st 3.5 years of a Sabbath Week of Years consist of regular solar years, or 365 days. And then the remaining 3.5 years of the same Sabbath Week of Years consist of 360 day years? This means the 1st half of the Week consists of 1278 days, while the last half of the Week consists of 1260 days?

    Each Week cycle begins on 1 Abib and ends on the same date? And the "fulcrum" of this Week is the Day of Atonement, which is a "reset" of the mid-Week to allow the Week to end on 1 Abib?

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    Re: Division of the Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Here’s the part that blew my head off when I counted the days on a computer lunar app called Hermetic systems.

    When we count from the end of the Day of Atonement 1260 days, it resets itself to the start of the Hebrew New Year Day, the 1st of Abib (Nisan) three and a half years later. So, the special festival in the middle year is actually a 'fulcrum' between two significant counts. Each 'time, times and half a time' had an additional month added to the 'base' 42 months, making 43 lunar months on both sides - a total of 86 lunar months altogether. Please examine the diagram taking note that the Day of Atonement stands independently between the two counts.

    Notice how the first ‘t, t, + t’ was precisely 3.5 solar years, but the second ‘t, t, + t’ was 1260 days. From what I can see, every Sabbatical cycle (week) follows this pattern.

    [IMG] http://5loaves2fishes.net/files/imag...etonic1260.svg [/IMG]

    Here’s the part that blew my head off when I counted the days on a computer lunar app called Hermetic systems.

    When we count from the end of the Day of Atonement 1260 days, it resets itself to the start of the Hebrew New Year Day, the 1st of Abib (Nisan) three and a half years later. So, the special festival in the middle year is actually a 'fulcrum' between two significant counts. Each 'time, times and half a time' had an additional month added to the 'base' 42 months, making 43 lunar months on both sides - a total of 86 lunar months altogether. Please examine the diagram taking note that the Day of Atonement stands independently between the two counts.

    Notice how the first ‘t, t, + t’ was precisely 3.5 solar years, but the second ‘t, t, + t’ was 1260 days. From what I can see, every Sabbatical cycle (week) follows this pattern.

    [IMG] http://5loaves2fishes.net/files/imag...etonic1260.svg [/IMG]
    Firstly, the time, times and half a time is not related to this.

    Secondly this claim is also not always correct for every group of 7 years.
    I checked with 1st Nisan 5775, which is 21st March 2015.
    Now 10th Tishri 5779 is 19th September 2018 which is 1279 days (which you noted is occasionally the case - presumably due to a leap year)
    Yet 29 Adar II 5782 is 1st April 2022 and is 1290 days (not 1260).

    This is due to the times when Adar II is added or not to keep alignment.

    This is also what helps in understanding Dan 12's 1290 days and the 1150 days of Dan 8.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Heres the part that blew my head off when I counted the days on a computer lunar app called Hermetic systems.

    When we count from the end of the Day of Atonement 1260 days, it resets itself to the start of the Hebrew New Year Day, the 1st of Abib (Nisan) three and a half years later. So, the special festival in the middle year is actually a 'fulcrum' between two significant counts. Each 'time, times and half a time' had an additional month added to the 'base' 42 months, making 43 lunar months on both sides - a total of 86 lunar months altogether. Please examine the diagram taking note that the Day of Atonement stands independently between the two counts.

    Notice how the first t, t, + t was precisely 3.5 solar years, but the second t, t, + t was 1260 days. From what I can see, every Sabbatical cycle (week) follows this pattern.

    [IMG] http://5loaves2fishes.net/files/imag...etonic1260.svg [/IMG]

    Heres the part that blew my head off when I counted the days on a computer lunar app called Hermetic systems.

    When we count from the end of the Day of Atonement 1260 days, it resets itself to the start of the Hebrew New Year Day, the 1st of Abib (Nisan) three and a half years later. So, the special festival in the middle year is actually a 'fulcrum' between two significant counts. Each 'time, times and half a time' had an additional month added to the 'base' 42 months, making 43 lunar months on both sides - a total of 86 lunar months altogether. Please examine the diagram taking note that the Day of Atonement stands independently between the two counts.

    Notice how the first t, t, + t was precisely 3.5 solar years, but the second t, t, + t was 1260 days. From what I can see, every Sabbatical cycle (week) follows this pattern.

    Firstly, the time, times and half a time is not related to this.

    Secondly this claim is also not always correct for every group of 7 years.
    I checked with 1st Nisan 5775, which is 21st March 2015.
    Now 10th Tishri 5779 is 19th September 2018 which is 1279 days (which you noted is occasionally the case - presumably due to a leap year)
    Yet 29 Adar II 5782 is 1st April 2022 and is 1290 days (not 1260).

    This is due to the times when Adar II is added or not to keep alignment.

    This is also what helps in understanding Dan 12's 1290 days and the 1150 days of Dan 8.

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    Re: Division of the Week

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory

    Secondly this claim is also not always correct for every group of 7 years.
    I checked with 1st Nisan 5775, which is 21st March 2015.
    Now 10th Tishri 5779 is 19th September 2018 which is 1279 days
    Thanks for checking. Yes, when we multiply 3 x 365.25 we get 1278.37, so every now and again there will be an extra day. In either case the great lunar event - the day of Atonement - is always 3 solar years after the start of the seven years. The lunar and solar cycles were linked together. This never happens anywhere else (for example the Chinese) as best as I can tell.
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    Re: Division of the Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Almost every end-time discussion on this subject quotes Revelation and postulates a 360-day year. Theories of 360 and/or 364-day years are wrong. I'll get to the 1260 and 1290 days shortly.
    I've been studying the calendar (and day-amounts) issues for years, though not in the same fashion you have.

    And I agree with some of what you've put. I agree that it's not exactly like saying "a 360-day year" (IOW, the calendar doesn't change to start or resume using 360-days per year, or something).

    I agree (or maybe you don't see it this way) that the "time, times, half a time" pertains SOLELY to the second half of the trib, and that the Day of Atonement is the center point (followed by 1260 days to the end-point).

    The expression "time, times, half a time" as used in Scripture never speaks to the first half of the trib (though I do believe there is only 1260 days there as well, from the INITIAL point of the 7-year period [so to speak], where Daniel 9:27a[26] EQUALS the 2Th2:9a "whose coming/advent/arrival/presence/parousia" of the "man of sin" [his "be revealed" at the START] takes place, paralleling the "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" Matt24:4/Mk13:5 INTIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]" of many more "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that follow on from that point in time, and paralleling the Rev6 "SEALS" [Seal #1 in particular--the rider of the white horse with a "bow" (often meaning "deceit/deception")]).

    Kings would "go out to battle" (and be "crowned") at a certain date in Scripture (OT) which would also correlate with the Rev19 calendar timing (Jesus' return to the earth; i.e. Armageddon timing).


    I don't believe that the 1290 days and the 1335 days "extend" past the second 1260 days by [as much as] 75 more days, but that there is some overlap, and that it only extends by a short[er] amount of time, which "connects" other significant dates (without going much into it here).

    And yes, I believe the words in Dan12:13 (speaking of Daniel) are yet future (at the END of the days in that context, which is an end time context, not a past one [from our perspective]).

  11. #11

    Re: Division of the Week

    [ ^ I write that post as a pre-tribber; I believe the "Rapture" pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body," not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints [Daniel 12:13, RESURRECTED (not Raptured) at the END of the days], not to Trib saints [Rev20:4b], not to MK saints [the Rapture occurs well before MK saints would be born during the MK time period, and would even become saints, if you will...])

  12. #12

    Re: Division of the Week

    I should have added: I believe that Daniel 7:25 and Daniel 12:6-7 refer to the same time period (second half of trib), but [how to say] from slightly differing perspectives (not sure how to state that like I would like to convey).

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    Re: Division of the Week

    I seriously think thats what needs to be given the boot is our much cherished theory about a 360-year calendar. The simple fact is that there never was a continuous series of twelve 30-day months every year. There may have been prior to the flood, but by the time of Moses a month was 29.53 days long and this was rounded off into whole days of 30 and 29 until a lunar year of 354 days had transpired. Then, in every Sabbatical cycle a 13th month was added to each time, times and half a time to bring it into line with the solar year.

    Have a look a the diagram again. The full seven years contains 1278 + 1 + 1260 = 2539 days. Divide that by 29.53 and, wella, 86 lunar months. I reckon it was more accurate than any of the modern calendars!

    [IMG] http://5loaves2fishes.net/files/imag...etonic1260.svg [/IMG]
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    Re: Division of the Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    I just threw in the bit about Enoch's calendar as an aside. You're right. We dont have to deal with it.

    One thing that could be elaborated on though, is how every 'Times, time and half a time' contains 42 + 1 (total 43) lunar months. Almost every end-time discussion on this subject quotes Revelation and postulates a 360-day year. Theories of 360 and/or 364-day years are wrong. I'll get to the 1260 and 1290 days shortly.
    I see a good argument for the phrase "time, times and half a time" referring to 1260 days and not 43 lunar months:
    6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
    14 she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time

    The event in Rev 12 v6 is described in the same wording as the event in Rev 12 v14, indicating that a time, times and half a time is actually 1260 days.

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    Re: Division of the Week

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I see a good argument for the phrase "time, times and half a time" referring to 1260 days and not 43 lunar months:
    6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
    14 she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time

    The event in Rev 12 v6 is described in the same wording as the event in Rev 12 v14, indicating that a time, times and half a time is actually 1260 days.
    That is probably needed to be discussed in a separate thread.
    I see the two as related but NOT the same period of time.
    One is a SIGN, the other is a reality.The SIGN though I see as a foreshadowing. As I say though to discuss without leading this thread off the rails requires a different thread.

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