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Thread: Is the temple in Rev 11:1-2 literal?

  1. #136
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    Re: Is the temple in Rev 11:1-2 literal?

    All the apostles suffered untold tribulation and persecution, Paul listed a few of his - all happened BEFORE John received the Revelation visions. The key is before, not after.

  2. Re: Is the temple in Rev 11:1-2 literal?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Add to that what [member/poster] The Beginner pointed out some time back, that in the places where it refers to us ["the Church which is His body" (my point)], it does not use the definite article ('the').

    I've made similar points before.
    Note the verse which follows 1 Cor 3:16:

    1 Cor 3:16

    Know ye <G1492> not <G3756> that <G3754> ye are <G2075> the temple <G3485> of God <G2316>, and <G2532> that the Spirit <G3588> <G4151> of God <G3588> <G2316> dwelleth <G3611> in <G1722> you <G5213>?
    (I Corinthians 3:16 [KJVA])

    1 Cor 3:17

    If 3588 1487 any man 5100 defile 5351 the temple 3588 [B]3485[/B] of God 3588 2316 , him 5126 shall 5351 God 3588 2316 destroy 5351 ; for 1063 the temple 3485 of God 3588 2316 is 2076 holy 40 , which 3748 temple ye 5210 are 2075

    [*StrongsGreek*]

    3588 ho ho, including the feminine he hay, and the neuter to to in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom):--the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.

    [*StrongsGreek*]
    3485 naos nah-os' from a primary naio (to dwell); a fane, shrine, temple :--shrine, temple. Compare 2411. see GREEK for 2411.

    The definite article is used in the very next verse: verse 17, which is speaking about the same temple verse 16 is speaking of

    Quite obviously (1+1=2) because all our bodies are the temple of God (according to the Greek), it is also the Church, because together, the (individual) temples make up Christ's Church.

    You do not say why you make the above statement? If you are arguing that the omission of the Greek word for "the" from some of the verses referring to the bodies of believers as the naos negates the facts mentioned in my post , then it's quite clearly a red herring you are using.

    Why?

    The fact remains, the Greek word hieron is the only Greek word used in reference to the multiple references to the Jerusalem temple after the death of Christ.

    Putting arguments about (the) Greek word for "the" not accompanying references to the bodies of individual believers or the church as (the) temple of God, is a red herring.

  3. #138
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    Re: Is the temple in Rev 11:1-2 literal?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    That still means it is NOT prophecy. John writes of it as a FUTURE persecution NOT a PRESENT one.
    IOW the persecution he underwent is NOT the same as that he is being given a prophecy about!
    But it would be prophecy if he was saying when it would end

  4. #139
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    Re: Is the temple in Rev 11:1-2 literal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    All the apostles suffered untold tribulation and persecution, Paul listed a few of his - all happened BEFORE John received the Revelation visions. The key is before, not after.
    John was under persecution while writing revelation but he prophesied when it would end

  5. #140
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    Re: Is the temple in Rev 11:1-2 literal?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But it would be prophecy if he was saying when it would end
    Nope, as he was prophesying about it BEFORE it started.

    Further Revelation has the end with the return of Jesus. SO a bit of a problem there as John didn't state exactly when that would happen.

  6. #141
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    Re: Is the temple in Rev 11:1-2 literal?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    John was under persecution while writing revelation but he prophesied when it would end
    The persecution John saw started after his death.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But it would be prophecy if he was saying when it would end
    Prophecy and history are not the same.

  7. #142
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    Re: Is the temple in Rev 11:1-2 literal?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Nope, as he was prophesying about it BEFORE it started.

    Further Revelation has the end with the return of Jesus. SO a bit of a problem there as John didn't state exactly when that would happen.
    If we were in a persecution and someone prophecied that it would end in two years and it did then that would be a true prophecy

    What scripture states that it is before the persecution started?

    Revelation doesn’t end with Jesus returns it ends with us being with him in the new heaven

  8. #143
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    Re: Is the temple in Rev 11:1-2 literal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The persecution John saw started after his death.



    Prophecy and history are not the same.

    What verse states that it starts after John dies?

    Of course prophecy and history are not the I have no idea why you say that as I didn’t say that. But history proves true prophecy

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