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Thread: Which of 16 Jesuses?

  1. #31

    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    physical science and Isaac Newton's ground-breaking discoveries.
    ^ Speaking of THAT guy, some say he was a great guy. Others say he was, uh, not so great. I'm thinking perhaps he was not even... REAL.

    But what do I know (I wasn't there, back then)… and, even more importantly, how!?

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    physical science and Isaac Newton's ground-breaking discoveries.
    ^ Speaking of THAT guy, some say he was a great guy. Others say he was, uh, not so great. I'm thinking perhaps he was not even... REAL.

    But what do I know (I wasn't there, back then)… and, even more importantly, how!?

  2. #32

    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidYoung View Post
    After all, that is exactly what the word means: hidden.
    We know what the word means.

    But you are not explaining what you are meaning by saying "the Scripture"/The Bible/"the Word of God" (or even "Jesus") is "hidden" (if that's what you meant). You are not being clear (at least from my perspective).

  3. #33
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    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidYoung View Post
    Every one of those Jesuses is presented by someone somewhere claiming that they believe in Jesus, regardless of whether it is the same Jesus you believe in or not, regardless of which part of the Bible you think represents your Jesus or not.

    It's quite a straightforward question. Which one is yours? It's a question which can be answered with just four key presses.
    The validity of Christianity is not determined from your 16 Jesus' theory. I hope you have more than this if you're wanting to dialogue because this is just not that good. The non-negotiable bedrock of Christianity is that man is a sinner, who cannot have a right relationship with God. Why ? Because sin separates us from him. You may be a great guy in your own mind David. Other people may even think this, but you aren't in the eyes of God. You are loved by God, but make no mistake, if you die while still under the penalty of sin, you will pay that penalty. This is the nature of a just God. I'm sure this is why you see God as contradicting Himself. Does he hate people ? NO. He hates sin.

    He loves people enough to send His only Son to die on your account. To pay that penalty that was mentioned earlier. There is no greater love than this. One is made right with God by repentance, and belief. Exercising true faith in Jesus' sacrifice. A sacrifice that historians agree happened. History itself testifies of Jesus David. Surrendering to Christ means that you accept His gift of grace ( the gift was bought with His death and resurrection). You can believe and will believe what you like, but some of the brightest minds in history have followed Christ.

    You come to a message board as if your 16 point Jesus' test is going to impress or convince someone. It's not. Christianity has withstood much , much more scrutiny that what your doing here and not only survived, but thrived. You can argue all you wish but you will never be able to explain how when people TRULY accept Jesus as Lord, their life changes. The power of God rests on them in a way that you cannot understand because you are spiritually blind. I hope you at least are open to examine a true believers life, and scrutinize their testimony. They have peace and joy. Something you cannot have not matter how hard you try to convince yourself that you do. Why else would you be here ?

  4. #34
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    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidYoung View Post
    It's a straightforward question...….
    It isn't a straightforward question and you are 100% aware of that. That's your schtick here are Bibleforums. You asserted that Christians don't want to define what they believe and at least three here have done that. Again, you ignore.

    Jesus A plans to send at least one person to a place of inescapable, endless physical torture.
    [This would mean that Jesus intentionally intends on causing "at least" one person to not know of him. That's a lie. The Bible says that "it is God's will that none should perish. Many will perish, but Christ died for ALL. He didn't die for All minus that hypothetical "one" that you have listed here.]

    Jesus B does not.
    [Does not what? Does not "not" plan on people going to hell? Then that would mean he "plans" on ALL going to heaven. They won't. Jesus' plans were to die on the cross for our sins and man, in his free will, choosing to serve him.]

    Jesus C regards the application of the intellect to questions of faith as evil.
    [Not true. Jesus teaches faith, but never banned the sincere questioning of anyone who was looking for truth. You are "quite familiar" with the Bible, so I shouldn't have to give you all the accounts of people questioning Jesus about all sorts of things related to faith and his not turning them away. Yes, he spurned some who questioned to trap him and kill him. But others, no.]

    Jesus D does not.
    [Does not what? Does not call questions about faith evil? Some of them. It depends on the heart of the person asking. Asking to trap someone and asking for Godly understanding and knowledge is two different things.]


    Jesus E regards bad behaviour towards other people as less serious if the person doing it has suffered a particular level of suffering in their life.
    [Again, no - absolutely not. Read the sermon on the mount again. Jesus explained the root of he sins from the law. None of them were excused. Suffering does not excuse sin.]

    Jesus F does not.
    [Does not what? Does not excuse sin? No, he does not. But then again, this question is woefully inadequate. If Jesus does not excuse sin - then what is his remedy for it?]

    Jesus G sends direct instructions to people which it would be evil for them to regard as merely their imagination.
    [I don't really even understand what this means. Jesus is not into imagination or considering his words as imaginative. The Bible says to "test" the spirit. There's nothing wrong with seeking the Father and Christ and the Holy Spirit to give confirmation that something is coming from God.]

    Jesus H does not.
    [Does not what? Not "not" regard people's doubts as evil? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Doubts can reveal a condition of being unsaved and sometimes doubts are just doubts - and learning the truth can lead to sanctification and victory.]


    So there is my answer - none of these descriptor are complete, perfect, or give a whole picture of Christ.
    ".....it's your nickel"

  5. #35

    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidYoung View Post
    There are at least 16 different versions of Jesus
    This is completely false.

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    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidYoung View Post
    There are at least 16 different versions of Jesus, each one a completely different person from the other 15. Which one do you believe in?

    Jesus A plans to send at least one person to a place of inescapable, endless physical torture.
    Jesus B does not.

    Jesus C regards the application of the intellect to questions of faith as evil.
    Jesus D does not.

    As you can see, it is possible to have an AC, AD, BC or BD Jesus but not, for example, an ABCD or ABC one.

    Jesus E regards bad behaviour towards other people as less serious if the person doing it has suffered a particular level of suffering in their life.
    Jesus F does not.

    Jesus G sends direct instructions to people which it would be evil for them to regard as merely their imagination.
    Jesus H does not.

    So, as you can see, you could have any one of each pair, leading to 16 different versions of Jesus. Which letter combination is yours, if you believe in Jesus?
    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    How can you pull down strongholds of Satan if you don't even have the strength to turn off your TV?

    ~ Leonard Ravenhill



  7. #37
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    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    I'm sorry you said 16..

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    They all say the same thing..

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    How can you pull down strongholds of Satan if you don't even have the strength to turn off your TV?

    ~ Leonard Ravenhill



  8. #38
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    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    'Does not' is so simple it beggars belief that it even needs to be explained.

    It means that the description in the first of each pair is not one you would agree with, whether because it is entirely untrue or only partially so.

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    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidYoung View Post
    'Does not' is so simple it beggars belief that it even needs to be explained.

    It means that the description in the first of each pair is not one you would agree with, whether because it is entirely untrue or only partially so.
    OK, I do not believe in any of the 16 so-called names of Christ you have mentioned BECAUSE they are all false.

    John 14:6

    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

    1John 5:11-12

    And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
    He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.


    And as a warning to you, David:

    Luke 12:47-48

    And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidYoung View Post
    'Does not' is so simple it beggars belief that it even needs to be explained.

    It means that the description in the first of each pair is not one you would agree with, whether because it is entirely untrue or only partially so.
    OK, I do not believe in any of the 16 so-called names of Christ you have mentioned BECAUSE they are all false.

    John 14:6

    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

    1John 5:11-12

    And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
    He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.


    And as a warning to you, David:

    Luke 12:47-48

    And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.
    "You're gonna make a difference when you lay down your life, and in complete submission to God, choose to die with Him in service to other people."
    "Sometimes it concerns me, you know, the number of people that can quote my songs, and-- or they can quote the songs of several different people, but they can't quote the Scriptures."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZLFGZ6zpeI
    Rich Mullins

    For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father

  10. #40
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    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    So not only is Jesus not planning to send at least one person to a place of inescapable, endless physical torture, but he is also not not going to.

    It is only in the realm of the occult that such an assertion is supposed to make sense.

  11. #41
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    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidYoung View Post
    So not only is Jesus not planning to send at least one person to a place of inescapable, endless physical torture, but he is also not not going to.

    It is only in the realm of the occult that such an assertion is supposed to make sense.
    For someone who claims to be "familiar" with the Bible because you "read it twice", you still fail to grasp the basic concepts of what being a Christian is, and a believer in Jesus. Though you "hang out" on this message board (and who knows how many others), you are still as blind as the Rich Young Ruler was when he asked Jesus what he had to do to inherit the Kingdom.

    Psalm 115:5-10 was written with people like you in mind:

    5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

    6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

    7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

    8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

    9 O Israel, trust thou in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.

    10 O house of Aaron, trust in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidYoung View Post
    So not only is Jesus not planning to send at least one person to a place of inescapable, endless physical torture, but he is also not not going to.

    It is only in the realm of the occult that such an assertion is supposed to make sense.
    For someone who claims to be "familiar" with the Bible because you "read it twice", you still fail to grasp the basic concepts of what being a Christian is, and a believer in Jesus. Though you "hang out" on this message board (and who knows how many others), you are still as blind as the Rich Young Ruler was when he asked Jesus what he had to do to inherit the Kingdom.

    Psalm 115:5-10 was written with people like you in mind:

    5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

    6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

    7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

    8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

    9 O Israel, trust thou in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.

    10 O house of Aaron, trust in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
    "You're gonna make a difference when you lay down your life, and in complete submission to God, choose to die with Him in service to other people."
    "Sometimes it concerns me, you know, the number of people that can quote my songs, and-- or they can quote the songs of several different people, but they can't quote the Scriptures."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZLFGZ6zpeI
    Rich Mullins

    For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father

  12. #42
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    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    Either the description of Jesus is accurate or it isn't. Given that description B is any description that is different from description A, saying that neither one is accurate is absurd.

    D is any description that is not C. F is any description that is not E. H is any description that is not G.

    This isn't rocket science.

  13. #43

    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    ^ Not rocket science, and not exactly accurate either.

    A little bit of Bible study , if you're up to study, and if you will:

    The verse that states "prepared for the devil and his angels" [which context also involves the "ye cursed," in contrast to the "ye BLESSED"] takes place at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth [not our Rapture, btw], when also does the Isaiah 24:21-22[23] passage (with its TWO "PUNISH" words which are separated by the phrase [and timing of] "and after many days") which is parallel also to the Revelation 19:19-21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 event (that is, this follows the time period of the 7-yr/70th Week of tribulation period leading UP TO His Second Coming to the earth [well after our Rapture, btw] and DURING WHICH Matthew 24:14[26:13] will be being "preached in all the world for a witness unto all the nations" [parallel to those in Rev7:9,14; parallel to those "[guests (plural)] having been invited" etc [Matt22:8-14], and the Matthew 25:31-46 context among others; IOW, not what is taking place in "this present age [singular]" but that which will follow our Rapture, and involve numerous "signs" and so forth, which will then lead up to His Second Coming to the earth FOR His promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom). So understanding context and chronology helps us understand also other factors (such as purpose, intent, and the "whys" of things, etc).

    John 3:17-18 says, "17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." [what is this saying about His intentions? and then about peoples'...?]

    Acts 17:31nasb says, "31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through [in] a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising [in having raised] Him [out-]from the dead.”
    [I do not believe this is referring merely to a singular 24-hr day, rather that this commences when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13; Lam2:4-5 [similar to 2Th2:7b-8a] beginning at SEAL #1 at the START of the 7-yrs/70th Wk) and His governance [ruling/reigning] that will continue on into the promised and prophesied earthly MK (Heb1:8; 1Cor15:25-28; Isa24:[21-]23; Rev19:15b; Dan7:27 [following the specific time period in v.25]; Dan2:35; 1Tim6:15 [one of only TWO times that "King" is mentioned in all of the epistles, and both refer to that which is yet "future" and "visible"]; etc)]

    Luke 16:19-31 (whether parable or no) is instructive with regard to the time then (during Jesus' earthly ministry) where verse 31 states, "And He said unto him, 'If they hear not Moses and the prophets [OT], neither will they be persuaded, though one rose [should rise] from the dead.' " [what does this tell us about peoples' direction, if you will?] Here, the "rich man[who died]'s" brothers still have time to change their destination (which is different to the point in time of the [subject/timing of that in my] previous paragraph). Note that even here (in this context/timing) the text says "I am tormented in this flame" (not "[physically] tortured"--the rich man "died" and this is not after the "many days" so he's not in the Revelation 20:11-15 context [GWTj] either, i.e. "the dead, small and great, stand before God," "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them" time slot, meaning, he is not in a physical body, as this later time frame seems to indicate they will be at that far-future time [GWTj]).


    Acts 3 speaks of TWO [distinct] "raise"... ONE referring to Jesus' earthly ministry BEFORE His death (raised to a position of prominence BEFORE His crucifixion, during which He did the v.22 "a prophet shall the Lord God raise up UNTO YOU [ye men of Israel, v.12] of your brethren, like unto me [Moses]; him shall YE [ye men of Israel, v.12] hear in all things whatsoever he shall say UNTO YOU [ye men of Israel, v.12] and the v.26 thing "UNTO YOU FIRST [ye men of Israel, v.12] God, having raised up [that is, to a position of prominence in His earthly ministry BEFORE His death] His Servant Jesus, sent him to BLESS YOU [ye men of Israel, v.12], in turning away every one of YOU [ye men of Israel, v.12] from his iniquities." [and chpt 4 goes on to speak of His "resurrection" (out-from the dead) v.2 and to say in v.4 that "many of them which heard the word believed"--what does this tell us about "many" of these peoples' direction, if you will? especially in view of the passage I'd supplied in the previous paragraph?]

    There's more I could say, but this should be sufficient for... the next 24 hours or so

    ^ Not rocket science, and not exactly accurate either.

    A little bit of Bible study , if you're up to study, and if you will:

    The verse that states "prepared for the devil and his angels" [which context also involves the "ye cursed," in contrast to the "ye BLESSED"] takes place at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth [not our Rapture, btw], when also does the Isaiah 24:21-22[23] passage (with its TWO "PUNISH" words which are separated by the phrase [and timing of] "and after many days") which is parallel also to the Revelation 19:19-21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 event (that is, this follows the time period of the 7-yr/70th Week of tribulation period leading UP TO His Second Coming to the earth [well after our Rapture, btw] and DURING WHICH Matthew 24:14[26:13] will be being "preached in all the world for a witness unto all the nations" [parallel to those in Rev7:9,14; parallel to those "[guests (plural)] having been invited" etc [Matt22:8-14], and the Matthew 25:31-46 context among others; IOW, not what is taking place in "this present age [singular]" but that which will follow our Rapture, and involve numerous "signs" and so forth, which will then lead up to His Second Coming to the earth FOR His promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom). So understanding context and chronology helps us understand also other factors (such as purpose, intent, and the "whys" of things, etc).

    John 3:17-18 says, "17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." [what is this saying about His intentions? and then about peoples'...?]

    Acts 17:31nasb says, "31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through [in] a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising [in having raised] Him [out-]from the dead.”
    [I do not believe this is referring merely to a singular 24-hr day, rather that this commences when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13; Lam2:4-5 [similar to 2Th2:7b-8a] beginning at SEAL #1 at the START of the 7-yrs/70th Wk) and His governance [ruling/reigning] that will continue on into the promised and prophesied earthly MK (Heb1:8; 1Cor15:25-28; Isa24:[21-]23; Rev19:15b; Dan7:27 [following the specific time period in v.25]; Dan2:35; 1Tim6:15 [one of only TWO times that "King" is mentioned in all of the epistles, and both refer to that which is yet "future" and "visible"]; etc)]

    Luke 16:19-31 (whether parable or no) is instructive with regard to the time then (during Jesus' earthly ministry) where verse 31 states, "And He said unto him, 'If they hear not Moses and the prophets [OT], neither will they be persuaded, though one rose [should rise] from the dead.' " [what does this tell us about peoples' direction, if you will?] Here, the "rich man[who died]'s" brothers still have time to change their destination (which is different to the point in time of the [subject/timing of that in my] previous paragraph). Note that even here (in this context/timing) the text says "I am tormented in this flame" (not "[physically] tortured"--the rich man "died" and this is not after the "many days" so he's not in the Revelation 20:11-15 context [GWTj] either, i.e. "the dead, small and great, stand before God," "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them" time slot, meaning, he is not in a physical body, as this later time frame seems to indicate they will be at that far-future time [GWTj]).


    Acts 3 speaks of TWO [distinct] "raise"... ONE referring to Jesus' earthly ministry BEFORE His death (raised to a position of prominence BEFORE His crucifixion, during which He did the v.22 "a prophet shall the Lord God raise up UNTO YOU [ye men of Israel, v.12] of your brethren, like unto me [Moses]; him shall YE [ye men of Israel, v.12] hear in all things whatsoever he shall say UNTO YOU [ye men of Israel, v.12] and the v.26 thing "UNTO YOU FIRST [ye men of Israel, v.12] God, having raised up [that is, to a position of prominence in His earthly ministry BEFORE His death] His Servant Jesus, sent him to BLESS YOU [ye men of Israel, v.12], in turning away every one of YOU [ye men of Israel, v.12] from his iniquities." [and chpt 4 goes on to speak of His "resurrection" (out-from the dead) v.2 and to say in v.4 that "many of them which heard the word believed"--what does this tell us about "many" of these peoples' direction, if you will? especially in view of the passage I'd supplied in the previous paragraph?]

    There's more I could say, but this should be sufficient for... the next 24 hours or so

  14. #44

    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    [tryin to clear up my post]


    ^ Not rocket science, and not exactly accurate either.

    A little bit of Bible study , if you're up to study, and if you will:

    The verse that states "prepared for the devil and his angels" [which context also involves the "ye cursed," in contrast to the "ye BLESSED"] takes place at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth [not our Rapture, btw], when also does the Isaiah 24:21-22[23] passage (with its TWO "PUNISH" words which are separated by the phrase [and timing of] "and after many days") which is parallel also to the Revelation 19:19-21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 event (that is, this follows the time period of the 7-yr/70th Week of tribulation period leading UP TO His Second Coming to the earth [well after our Rapture, btw] and DURING WHICH Matthew 24:14[26:13] will be being "preached in all the world for a witness unto all the nations" [parallel to those in Rev7:9,14; parallel to those "[guests (plural)] having been invited" etc [Matt22:8-14], and the Matthew 25:31-46 context among others; IOW, not what is taking place in "this present age [singular]" but that which will follow our Rapture, and involve numerous "signs" and so forth, which will then lead up to His Second Coming to the earth FOR His promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom). So understanding context and chronology helps us understand also other factors (such as purpose, intent, and the "whys" of things, etc).

    John 3:17-18 says, "17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." [what is this saying about His intentions? and then about peoples'...?]

    Acts 17:31nasb says, "31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through [in] a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising [in having raised] Him [out-]from the dead.”
    [I do not believe this is referring merely to a singular 24-hr day, rather that this commences when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13; Lam2:4-5 [similar to 2Th2:7b-8a] beginning at SEAL #1 at the START of the 7-yrs/70th Wk) and His governance [ruling/reigning] that will continue on into the promised and prophesied earthly MK (Heb1:8; 1Cor15:25-28; Isa24:[21-]23; Rev19:15b; Dan7:27 [following the specific time period in v.25]; Dan2:35; 1Tim6:15 [one of only TWO times that "King" is mentioned in all of the epistles, and both refer to that which is yet "future" and "visible"]; etc)]

    Luke 16:19-31 (whether parable or no) is instructive with regard to the time then (during Jesus' earthly ministry) where verse 31 states, "And He said unto him, 'If they hear not Moses and the prophets [OT], neither will they be persuaded, though one rose [should rise] from the dead.' " [what does this tell us about peoples' direction, if you will?] Here, the "rich man[who died]'s" brothers still have time to change their destination (which is different to the point in time of the [subject/timing of that in my] previous paragraph). Note that even here (in this context/timing) the text says "I am tormented in this flame" (not "[physically] tortured"--the rich man "died" and this is not after the "many days" so he's not in the Revelation 20:11-15 context [GWTj] either, i.e. "the dead, small and great, stand before God," "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them" time slot, meaning, he is not in a physical body, as this later time frame seems to indicate they will be at that far-future time [GWTj]).


    Acts 3 speaks of TWO [distinct] "raise"... ONE referring to Jesus' earthly ministry BEFORE His death (raised to a position of prominence BEFORE His crucifixion, during which He did the v.22 "a prophet shall the Lord God raise up UNTO YOU [ye men of Israel, v.12] of your brethren, like unto me [Moses]; him shall YE [ye men of Israel, v.12] hear in all things whatsoever he shall say UNTO YOU [ye men of Israel, v.12] and the v.26 thing "UNTO YOU FIRST [ye men of Israel, v.12] God, having raised up [that is, to a position of prominence in His earthly ministry BEFORE His death] His Servant Jesus, sent him to BLESS YOU [ye men of Israel, v.12], in turning away every one of YOU [ye men of Israel, v.12] from his iniquities." [and chpt 4 goes on to speak of His "resurrection" (out-from the dead) v.2 and to say in v.4 that "many of them which heard the word believed"--what does this tell us about "many" of these peoples' direction, if you will? especially in view of the passage I'd supplied in the previous paragraph?]

    There's more I could say, but this should be sufficient for... the next 24 hours or so

  15. #45

    Re: Which of 16 Jesuses?

    *Lam2:3-4* (hope the EDIT feature gets fixed soon... not sure how many more blunders I've made that need further correcting )

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