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Thread: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Jacob also tithed. The heart of the matter, is that tithing was about faith and trust in God long (about 600 years) before the Law.
    But Jacob was also of the seed , only the progenitors of Israel did it, and not on a regular basis. But I have no problem to let it go. Thank you for your time.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    This is why meaning of "provisions" and not money should be utilized for this topic in relation to "giving"
    Abraham tithed one time. Jacob made a vow to God to tithe after God gave him a very big promise! In the law, it wasn't always about provision either, though one was only to tithe from the provision of plants and animals. IMO, it wasn't about giving at all.

    Part of it was about making sure the Levites got an inheritance. That was 10% of plants and animals gained during the year. Another 10% went to feasts that the tithers were to enjoy for themselves. Then a final 10% was given every 3rd year to share with poor people.

    The NT never, ever, ever uses tithing when speaking of provision or giving. Instead, Paul, an expert of the law, used things like "do not muzzle the ox that treads the corn" when speaking on giving. I think it is a mistake to use tithing for instruction on giving. Also, in the OT, when something was needed for the temple, there was a tax put on the people for money to handle the maintances. But the tithe, it had to be something that was living (i.e. plants or animals) and on neither of those things, could a man create, make, etc. Both required a miracle from God that to this day, mankind cannot replicate.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    It's also what was in their heart. God didn't ask for it. They chose to do it freely. Also, under the law, there were 3 tithes required for a total of about 23.3% a year and it was never money that was tithed. It was always either plants or animals. When Abraham tithed, he gave of all that he had, one time. It doesn't appear to be an ongoing process for him.

    Tithing, none of it, is taught after the gospels. Giving is taught. The only place Jesus spoke about it was to Pharisees who were under the law. Jesus didn't appeal to pre-law about that either. And, when Jesus commented on it, it was also about plants and animals and not about money. Making the tithe about money is one mistake that the church has made. It was not about money under the law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    This is why meaning of "provisions" and not money should be utilized for this topic in relation to "giving"
    Let me raise this also. The lesson that Paul gives to us about giving, those that give little, reap little and those who give great, reap greatly. Something that many do not consider about this lesson, the lesson empowers Christians to give MORE than any statute of 10%. Problem is, more Christians are just trying to justify that they don't need to give anything

    We find that giving nothing, is not in the lesson
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  4. #34
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    It's also what was in their heart. God didn't ask for it. They chose to do it freely. Also, under the law, there were 3 tithes required for a total of about 23.3% a year and it was never money that was tithed. It was always either plants or animals. When Abraham tithed, he gave of all that he had, one time. It doesn't appear to be an ongoing process for him.

    Tithing, none of it, is taught after the gospels. Giving is taught. The only place Jesus spoke about it was to Pharisees who were under the law. Jesus didn't appeal to pre-law about that either. And, when Jesus commented on it, it was also about plants and animals and not about money. Making the tithe about money is one mistake that the church has made. It was not about money under the law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    This is why meaning of "provisions" and not money should be utilized for this topic in relation to "giving"
    Also, gratitude is what it's all about concerning Abraham and/or Jacob and they gave out of "what" they had as provision in gratitude to God.

    We have a family in our church that run the community garden we have on the church land, they also raise chickens at their home. Both do not work and literally, their giving to the church I attend is from what they ARE provided with and what they give to the church feeds others and supplies dinners we do for the public. What "money" they do receive, they give out of that as well.

    Another reason why the word "provision" should be utilized instead of exclusively, "money."
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  5. #35
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Let me raise this also. The lesson that Paul gives to us about giving, those that give little, reap little and those who give great, reap greatly. Something that many do not consider about this lesson, the lesson empowers Christians to give MORE than any statute of 10%. Problem is, more Christians are just trying to justify that they don't need to give anything

    We find that giving nothing, is not in the lesson
    Perfect! Teach that and don't use tithing as an example.

    When Jesus touches someone, they will want to give. The right teaching is "whatever is in your heart, give that". That is what Paul said, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Paul never once, not ONE TIME, every used tithing as an example of giving. Given that he was filled with the Holy Spirit when teaching on giving, it would be wise for us to follow Paul's Spirit filled example when it comes to teaching on giving.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Also, gratitude is what it's all about concerning Abraham and/or Jacob and they gave out of "what" they had as provision in gratitude to God.

    We have a family in our church that run the community garden we have on the church land, they also raise chickens at their home. Both do not work and literally, their giving to the church I attend is from what they ARE provided with and what they give to the church feeds others and supplies dinners we do for the public. What "money" they do receive, they give out of that as well.

    Another reason why the word "provision" should be utilized instead of exclusively, "money."
    Again, tithing was never about money. Never, ever, ever. Period. Never. It was not about giving financially. Never, ever, ever! Moses, led by God, had a provision in the law for taking care of the temple that did involve money, but it was not a tithe. Tithing and giving should never be taught together because that is not what the tithe was about under the law.

    We can see it was gratitude with Jacob and he came up with 10% in his heart. That was what was there. Nowhere in NT does any NT author use the tithe, or a percentage when teaching giving. It just doesn't do it. That again, is a reason we should not either. Those Spirit filled men knew about giving, and knew about tithing but never once, did any of them use tithing as an example for such a thing. Jacob purposed in his heart to give God back 10% after God made him a promise that he would be very wealthy.

    Abraham did so after a great victory over 5 kings, and going into convenant with Melchisadek. Abraham tithed once. Jacob made a promise to contribute more regularly. But again, none of the NT writers chose to teach about giving by using a percentage, or either of these men as examples. We need to tread lightly when teaching about giving.

    I think a stronger case can be made that tithing is about Jesus than it is about giving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Also, gratitude is what it's all about concerning Abraham and/or Jacob and they gave out of "what" they had as provision in gratitude to God.

    We have a family in our church that run the community garden we have on the church land, they also raise chickens at their home. Both do not work and literally, their giving to the church I attend is from what they ARE provided with and what they give to the church feeds others and supplies dinners we do for the public. What "money" they do receive, they give out of that as well.

    Another reason why the word "provision" should be utilized instead of exclusively, "money."
    Again, tithing was never about money. Never, ever, ever. Period. Never. It was not about giving financially. Never, ever, ever! Moses, led by God, had a provision in the law for taking care of the temple that did involve money, but it was not a tithe. Tithing and giving should never be taught together because that is not what the tithe was about under the law.

    We can see it was gratitude with Jacob and he came up with 10% in his heart. That was what was there. Nowhere in NT does any NT author use the tithe, or a percentage when teaching giving. It just doesn't do it. That again, is a reason we should not either. Those Spirit filled men knew about giving, and knew about tithing but never once, did any of them use tithing as an example for such a thing. Jacob purposed in his heart to give God back 10% after God made him a promise that he would be very wealthy.

    Abraham did so after a great victory over 5 kings, and going into convenant with Melchisadek. Abraham tithed once. Jacob made a promise to contribute more regularly. But again, none of the NT writers chose to teach about giving by using a percentage, or either of these men as examples. We need to tread lightly when teaching about giving.

    I think a stronger case can be made that tithing is about Jesus than it is about giving.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    I think a stronger case can be made that tithing is about Jesus than it is about giving.
    I agree 100% because when you really look at Paul's lesson (little/great giving), the reaping isn't only about getting more provision in return (or any provision). It's about greater faith and trust in Jesus and this increasing of relationship can result in greater gratitude, in turn... go from small giving to great concerning the element, giving of provision DUE to one's greater faith. One can say, exercising of faith.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  8. #38
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    They are just ignorant in believing they are blessed, but actually in bondage, I assume ?
    Aijalon was talking about people in relationship with God.

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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Aijalon was talking about people in relationship with God.
    Okay, I think I understand now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Aijalon was talking about people in relationship with God.
    Okay, I think I understand now.

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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    Okay, I think I understand now.
    Aijalon was talking about people in relationship with God, but Slug1 said people in relationship with God do not suffer from what Aijalon said.

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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    The churches explosion in finances did not happen due to not over-teaching of tithing. So what do you believe is the reason for what you described as faithful tithing and offering?
    Where did I describe "faithful tithing and offering?" A previous church I attended did not "push" the tithe, but taught it. They left it to faith by putting the box in the back of the church, rather than "pass the plate." Passing the plate is a pressure tactic, I should think?

    I grew up learning to tithe. In my latter teens I committed my life to Christ, and didn't know where "faith" should draw the line? Should I give all, because "we can't out give God?" And so I pretty much gave all. And I ended up having to live in somebody else's home.

    Yes, God provided me with a home. But why did I give up my own? I wasn't in the ministry!

    So I lost interest in following the doctrines of men as they interpreted Scriptures, and began to study Scriptures for myself. I learned the tithe was *not* a NT teaching. Giving was. Supporting the ministry was. Charitable giving was. But not NT tithing--not the tenth.

    So for the past several decades I've *not* given the tenth. I've not "tithed." However, I gave what I felt was my reasonable contribution. I've not suffered any curse due to giving less than a tithe. On the contrary, God has financially blessed me, even in dire conditions. I'm debt free and reasonably prosperous--not rich, but reasonably prosperous.

    Why did God bless me, a non-tither, brother? You create a false scenario when you say that those who tithe get blessed. The fact is, Scriptures do *not* recommend giving a tithe anymore. And anybody who says so should explain themselves.

    There are 2 basic "laws" that are illicitly still being passed off in the NT era when they are really based on outmoded OT laws: Sabbath keeping and tithe keeping. We should attend church regularly, and we should support our church financially. But these are not "laws."

    We need do nothing to have God in our life and for God to be pleased with us except to act in a loving way. It is not loving to not support our church. It is not loving God to not attend church.

    Gal 5.1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
    2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Perfect! Teach that and don't use tithing as an example.

    When Jesus touches someone, they will want to give. The right teaching is "whatever is in your heart, give that". That is what Paul said, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Paul never once, not ONE TIME, every used tithing as an example of giving. Given that he was filled with the Holy Spirit when teaching on giving, it would be wise for us to follow Paul's Spirit filled example when it comes to teaching on giving.
    You see, the problem is, it's also wise to not give too much. Some people are on food stamps and welfare programs, and are taught they need to give too. And so, they spend money that is ear-marked for them and for their children, as the *minimum* of what they need to live in a healthy way. To give under these circumstances *is not wise!*

    Sometimes people give the tenth because they think that's what they have to give. But they have all kinds of debt, and have an obligation to pay their debts off. If they choose to give a tenth when they owe 20,000 dollars on their credit card, they will be deferring payment on that card, and retaining a 19% interest rate. This isn't giving! This is stupidity! And this is why it's wrong to teach a tithe!

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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Where did I describe "faithful tithing and offering?" A previous church I attended did not "push" the tithe, but taught it. They left it to faith by putting the box in the back of the church, rather than "pass the plate." Passing the plate is a pressure tactic, I should think?

    I grew up learning to tithe. In my latter teens I committed my life to Christ, and didn't know where "faith" should draw the line? Should I give all, because "we can't out give God?" And so I pretty much gave all. And I ended up having to live in somebody else's home.

    Yes, God provided me with a home. But why did I give up my own? I wasn't in the ministry!

    So I lost interest in following the doctrines of men as they interpreted Scriptures, and began to study Scriptures for myself. I learned the tithe was *not* a NT teaching. Giving was. Supporting the ministry was. Charitable giving was. But not NT tithing--not the tenth.

    So for the past several decades I've *not* given the tenth. I've not "tithed." However, I gave what I felt was my reasonable contribution. I've not suffered any curse due to giving less than a tithe. On the contrary, God has financially blessed me, even in dire conditions. I'm debt free and reasonably prosperous--not rich, but reasonably prosperous.

    Why did God bless me, a non-tither, brother? You create a false scenario when you say that those who tithe get blessed. The fact is, Scriptures do *not* recommend giving a tithe anymore. And anybody who says so should explain themselves.

    There are 2 basic "laws" that are illicitly still being passed off in the NT era when they are really based on outmoded OT laws: Sabbath keeping and tithe keeping. We should attend church regularly, and we should support our church financially. But these are not "laws."

    We need do nothing to have God in our life and for God to be pleased with us except to act in a loving way. It is not loving to not support our church. It is not loving God to not attend church.

    Gal 5.1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
    2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
    Very well said Randy!

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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    You see, the problem is, it's also wise to not give too much. Some people are on food stamps and welfare programs, and are taught they need to give too. And so, they spend money that is ear-marked for them and for their children, as the *minimum* of what they need to live in a healthy way. To give under these circumstances *is not wise!*

    Sometimes people give the tenth because they think that's what they have to give. But they have all kinds of debt, and have an obligation to pay their debts off. If they choose to give a tenth when they owe 20,000 dollars on their credit card, they will be deferring payment on that card, and retaining a 19% interest rate. This isn't giving! This is stupidity! And this is why it's wrong to teach a tithe!
    I've said similar and was slammed for it. The poor in the church should be supported by the church not the government. Churches wasting money while their members need assistance and have to get that assistance from the government is very sad, and to push it to the level of disgusting they are pressured into 'paying their tithes'.

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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    You see, the problem is, it's also wise to not give too much. Some people are on food stamps and welfare programs, and are taught they need to give too. And so, they spend money that is ear-marked for them and for their children, as the *minimum* of what they need to live in a healthy way. To give under these circumstances *is not wise!*

    Sometimes people give the tenth because they think that's what they have to give. But they have all kinds of debt, and have an obligation to pay their debts off. If they choose to give a tenth when they owe 20,000 dollars on their credit card, they will be deferring payment on that card, and retaining a 19% interest rate. This isn't giving! This is stupidity! And this is why it's wrong to teach a tithe!
    You do realize that "the world" is satan's means to steal from God? Tempting Christians with covetousness, luring them deeper into covetousness with the ease of credit card usage is another means to STEAL a Christian's ability to steward what provision that God has provided?

    Proper stewarding of God's provisions means, Christians do NOT have the burden of credit card debt due to the sin of covetousness

    Which means, giving greater to God ISN'T any burden at all

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    You see, the problem is, it's also wise to not give too much. Some people are on food stamps and welfare programs, and are taught they need to give too. And so, they spend money that is ear-marked for them and for their children, as the *minimum* of what they need to live in a healthy way. To give under these circumstances *is not wise!*

    Sometimes people give the tenth because they think that's what they have to give. But they have all kinds of debt, and have an obligation to pay their debts off. If they choose to give a tenth when they owe 20,000 dollars on their credit card, they will be deferring payment on that card, and retaining a 19% interest rate. This isn't giving! This is stupidity! And this is why it's wrong to teach a tithe!
    You do realize that "the world" is satan's means to steal from God? Tempting Christians with covetousness, luring them deeper into covetousness with the ease of credit card usage is another means to STEAL a Christian's ability to steward what provision that God has provided?

    Proper stewarding of God's provisions means, Christians do NOT have the burden of credit card debt due to the sin of covetousness

    Which means, giving greater to God ISN'T any burden at all
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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