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Thread: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Man felt the guilt of their sin and were sacrificing before Moses, and they didn't put it on God for how he created and made them. I didn't know a thing about Moses when I was 4/5 years old, sinned, and knew good and evil. Our nature is the image of God. Sin is against our nature. Until Christ, until our nature is changed with the addition of the Spirit, it is what binds us to the guilt of our sin.

  2. #92
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Man felt the guilt of their sin and were sacrificing before Moses, and they didn't put it on God for how he created and made them. I didn't know a thing about Moses when I was 4/5 years old, sinned, and knew good and evil. Our nature is the image of God. Sin is against our nature. Until Christ, until our nature is changed with the addition of the Spirit, it is what binds us to the guilt of our sin.
    I would put it this way. Yes, our new nature in Christ, which is our spirit working with Christ's spirit, enables us to focus on a righteous existence. We still sin, in our carnal nature. But we are able to live in a spiritual nature that prevails in righteousness.

    Our choice to live in that spiritual nature is what justifies us before God. It is the righteous expression of our faith. It is *God in us,* giving us His Spirit as the means of righteous living.

    All of this took place in some way in the OT era as well. However, the Law existed to prevent Man from feeling vindicated apart from God's spiritual life. Until Christ came, Israel's own spiritual life was not perfect enough, even if righteous.

    Now we are free from a Law that invalidates our inheritance in God. Since Christ himself was perfect, and the source of spiritual life, we have to live in him to be righteous and to have our inheritance in God. There is absolutely no burden for us to show perfection, since we are justified by living in Christ's perfection, and not our own. We simply have to live in his spiritual life, and show his righteousness.

  3. #93
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    To remain on topic, I would argue that Christ himself fulfilled the totality of the Law, including the law of the tithe. It was a temporary law for Israel. But Christ fulfilled the Law not by being subject to the Law as a sinner, making sacrifices to God. Rather, Christ fulfilled the Law by fulfilling the perfect spiritual life for Man. In this way we can enjoy his own spirituality and righteousness, and thus inherit eternal life with him.

    To return to pseudo laws like the law of the tithe, and the law of the Sabbath, we are returning to laws designed to keep Israel separated from pagan Canaanites. These were laws that only temporarily preserved Israel in good standing with God.

    But Christ's spiritual life is a superior source of righteousness, because it is based on his perfection. Those who lived under the Law were themselves imperfect, and required means of atoning for their sins.

    Today, Christ is the means of our atonement, and we simply confess our sins to God in his name. To try to achieve justification under the Law completely misses the all-encompassing atonement of Christ. To return to the outdated laws of tithe and Sabbath is a complete failure to recognize that they were shadows of Christ himself, whose perfection exceeded the righteousness of the Law.

    Giving comes from Christ. Worshiping comes from Christ. To go back to Sabbath law and to the law of tithe is a step backwards. And it subjects man to the condemnation of our imperfections. Much better to live in Christ and in his perfection!

  4. #94
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    During a private conversation concerning this thread, this is a portion of one of my responses. I pray this can edify those involved in this thread

    A cut/paste, no editing:

    I once struggled with that reality because I was in a covetousness stronghold. I used to buy knives for a collection, no problem dropping anywhere from $80 - $300 on a handmade custom knife... while giving only a $10 or a $20 each week during service and then after service go to lunch and spend $25-35 at a restaurant and on the way home, pickup soda, chips and icecream for the afternoon football game. I was able to watch football because the $200.00 a month cable package at that time, had everything.

    When I began to be convicted, I struggled, I fought, I said ALL the same words against tithing/giving/offering as I read in that thread. But I also "wanted" more of God... meaning, less of myself. Meaning, what made ME happy (and those examples I gave were only some), had to change and by allowing God to be MORE in my life, I had much less that made me happy BUT, I had alot more that brought JOY into my life.

    And a major element of that change was to cut out all the needless covetous spending and begin an actual commitment to giving back to God. Wasn't easy but the more I "gave" to God, the stronghold fell over faster, more bricks removed until a day when the keystone of that stronghold was pulled and I was able to truly understand how my relationship with God took a major change for the better.

    Then, He began to get more involved in other area's of my life, why? Because I let Him. No more me, me, me, mine, mine, mine. Simple prayer... "God all I am, all I have is YOURS, help me be more of who you want me to be..."
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  5. #95
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    To remain on topic, I would argue that Christ himself fulfilled the totality of the Law, including the law of the tithe. It was a temporary law for Israel. But Christ fulfilled the Law not by being subject to the Law as a sinner, making sacrifices to God. Rather, Christ fulfilled the Law by fulfilling the perfect spiritual life for Man. In this way we can enjoy his own spirituality and righteousness, and thus inherit eternal life with him.

    To return to pseudo laws like the law of the tithe, and the law of the Sabbath, we are returning to laws designed to keep Israel separated from pagan Canaanites. These were laws that only temporarily preserved Israel in good standing with God.

    But Christ's spiritual life is a superior source of righteousness, because it is based on his perfection. Those who lived under the Law were themselves imperfect, and required means of atoning for their sins.

    Today, Christ is the means of our atonement, and we simply confess our sins to God in his name. To try to achieve justification under the Law completely misses the all-encompassing atonement of Christ. To return to the outdated laws of tithe and Sabbath is a complete failure to recognize that they were shadows of Christ himself, whose perfection exceeded the righteousness of the Law.

    Giving comes from Christ. Worshiping comes from Christ. To go back to Sabbath law and to the law of tithe is a step backwards. And it subjects man to the condemnation of our imperfections. Much better to live in Christ and in his perfection!
    Hello Brother Randy. While I agree with much of what you write here, there's something that I hope to present for food for thought. First, we are no longer under the law. None of it. In this we are agreed. But lets focus on obedience and deliverance for a moment.

    Throughout the scriptures, God has established a pattern that when he does a miracle, He will often require an obedient act of faith first. (Not always, but often.) This is especially true after we exit Egypt, spiritually speaking (i.e. salvation). When Israel crossed the Jordan on dry ground, they had to take a step first. And keep in mind, that crossing the Jordan was necessary for Israel to live a life of victory. It is the same for us.

    When Jesus performed his first miracle, he gave a command: "Fill these water pots with water." After they were filled, he turned the water into wine. To the 10 lepers He said "go show yourself to the priests." Scripture says they got healed "as they were going". Again, the miracle occurred after obedience. To the man with the withered hand "stretch forth your hand" and then the man was healed. Over and over again we see this pattern with the Lord. Does He sometimes heal, deliver, do the miraculous without a test of faith? Yes he does. But very often, He will give a command, and wait till we believe Him enough to have a work of obedience. Is our faith living or not? In James we are told to "confess our faults to one another, pray for one another that you might be healed". Some healing only comes after we obediently confess. Other examples, during the burning bush, we see God give Moses commands "throw down your rod" and it turned into a serpant. Then "pick up the serpant" and it turned back into a rod. This pattern is throughout the scriptures.

    When dealing with a stronghold (i.e. buying something I "thought" i needed when in fact, I didn't need it suggests a stronghold), we also see obedience as a major part of the equation. Check out 2 Cor. 10. There Paul talks about the weapons of our warfare being mighty, to the pulling down of strongholds. But there's a very interesting verse that is often overlooked right at the end of the passage:

    2 Cor 10:3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

    What is the Lord talking about there? He is simply saying "do this little thing I command you, and I will do the big thing you cannot do." For instance, march around Jericho 1 time a day, then on the 7th day, march around it 7 times. Then praise Me (God). And when their faith caused them to act obediently, God did for them what they could not do, he displaced the disobient inhabitants of the land. After Joshua's obedience was complete, the Lord God brought down the walls of the stronghold.

    This pattern is all over scripture. If someone wants to be free from debt caused by sin (and yes, I know not all debt is caused by sin but in this case, I am speaking to that which is), then most likely God will give a small command to do, before he tears down the stronghold, the habit, that was probably built up over many years. That command very well could be "give a dollar". Or it could be "go pray every day for anyone but yourself". That command will come to one who seeks the Lord. Maybe it will come directly. Maybe it will come through counseling, for confession is often a part of it. But it will come. And once our obedience is complete to this small thing, the Lord will then do a miracle and set us free.

    God bless,

    Mark

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    To remain on topic, I would argue that Christ himself fulfilled the totality of the Law, including the law of the tithe. It was a temporary law for Israel. But Christ fulfilled the Law not by being subject to the Law as a sinner, making sacrifices to God. Rather, Christ fulfilled the Law by fulfilling the perfect spiritual life for Man. In this way we can enjoy his own spirituality and righteousness, and thus inherit eternal life with him.

    To return to pseudo laws like the law of the tithe, and the law of the Sabbath, we are returning to laws designed to keep Israel separated from pagan Canaanites. These were laws that only temporarily preserved Israel in good standing with God.

    But Christ's spiritual life is a superior source of righteousness, because it is based on his perfection. Those who lived under the Law were themselves imperfect, and required means of atoning for their sins.

    Today, Christ is the means of our atonement, and we simply confess our sins to God in his name. To try to achieve justification under the Law completely misses the all-encompassing atonement of Christ. To return to the outdated laws of tithe and Sabbath is a complete failure to recognize that they were shadows of Christ himself, whose perfection exceeded the righteousness of the Law.

    Giving comes from Christ. Worshiping comes from Christ. To go back to Sabbath law and to the law of tithe is a step backwards. And it subjects man to the condemnation of our imperfections. Much better to live in Christ and in his perfection!
    Hello Brother Randy. While I agree with much of what you write here, there's something that I hope to present for food for thought. First, we are no longer under the law. None of it. In this we are agreed. But lets focus on obedience and deliverance for a moment.

    Throughout the scriptures, God has established a pattern that when he does a miracle, He will often require an obedient act of faith first. (Not always, but often.) This is especially true after we exit Egypt, spiritually speaking (i.e. salvation). When Israel crossed the Jordan on dry ground, they had to take a step first. And keep in mind, that crossing the Jordan was necessary for Israel to live a life of victory. It is the same for us.

    When Jesus performed his first miracle, he gave a command: "Fill these water pots with water." After they were filled, he turned the water into wine. To the 10 lepers He said "go show yourself to the priests." Scripture says they got healed "as they were going". Again, the miracle occurred after obedience. To the man with the withered hand "stretch forth your hand" and then the man was healed. Over and over again we see this pattern with the Lord. Does He sometimes heal, deliver, do the miraculous without a test of faith? Yes he does. But very often, He will give a command, and wait till we believe Him enough to have a work of obedience. Is our faith living or not? In James we are told to "confess our faults to one another, pray for one another that you might be healed". Some healing only comes after we obediently confess. Other examples, during the burning bush, we see God give Moses commands "throw down your rod" and it turned into a serpant. Then "pick up the serpant" and it turned back into a rod. This pattern is throughout the scriptures.

    When dealing with a stronghold (i.e. buying something I "thought" i needed when in fact, I didn't need it suggests a stronghold), we also see obedience as a major part of the equation. Check out 2 Cor. 10. There Paul talks about the weapons of our warfare being mighty, to the pulling down of strongholds. But there's a very interesting verse that is often overlooked right at the end of the passage:

    2 Cor 10:3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

    What is the Lord talking about there? He is simply saying "do this little thing I command you, and I will do the big thing you cannot do." For instance, march around Jericho 1 time a day, then on the 7th day, march around it 7 times. Then praise Me (God). And when their faith caused them to act obediently, God did for them what they could not do, he displaced the disobient inhabitants of the land. After Joshua's obedience was complete, the Lord God brought down the walls of the stronghold.

    This pattern is all over scripture. If someone wants to be free from debt caused by sin (and yes, I know not all debt is caused by sin but in this case, I am speaking to that which is), then most likely God will give a small command to do, before he tears down the stronghold, the habit, that was probably built up over many years. That command very well could be "give a dollar". Or it could be "go pray every day for anyone but yourself". That command will come to one who seeks the Lord. Maybe it will come directly. Maybe it will come through counseling, for confession is often a part of it. But it will come. And once our obedience is complete to this small thing, the Lord will then do a miracle and set us free.

    God bless,

    Mark
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  6. #96
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    During a private conversation concerning this thread, this is a portion of one of my responses. I pray this can edify those involved in this thread

    A cut/paste, no editing:
    A perfect example of God requiring faith from you, as shown through a work, before setting you free! Thank you for sharing brother!
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  7. #97
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Hello Brother Randy. While I agree with much of what you write here, there's something that I hope to present for food for thought. First, we are no longer under the law. None of it. In this we are agreed. But lets focus on obedience and deliverance for a moment.

    Throughout the scriptures, God has established a pattern that when he does a miracle, He will often require an obedient act of faith first. (Not always, but often.) This is especially true after we exit Egypt, spiritually speaking (i.e. salvation). When Israel crossed the Jordan on dry ground, they had to take a step first. And keep in mind, that crossing the Jordan was necessary for Israel to live a life of victory. It is the same for us.

    When Jesus performed his first miracle, he gave a command: "Fill these water pots with water." After they were filled, he turned the water into wine. To the 10 lepers He said "go show yourself to the priests." Scripture says they got healed "as they were going". Again, the miracle occurred after obedience. To the man with the withered hand "stretch forth your hand" and then the man was healed. Over and over again we see this pattern with the Lord. Does He sometimes heal, deliver, do the miraculous without a test of faith? Yes he does. But very often, He will give a command, and wait till we believe Him enough to have a work of obedience. Is our faith living or not? In James we are told to "confess our faults to one another, pray for one another that you might be healed". Some healing only comes after we obediently confess. Other examples, during the burning bush, we see God give Moses commands "throw down your rod" and it turned into a serpant. Then "pick up the serpant" and it turned back into a rod. This pattern is throughout the scriptures.

    When dealing with a stronghold (i.e. buying something I "thought" i needed when in fact, I didn't need it suggests a stronghold), we also see obedience as a major part of the equation. Check out 2 Cor. 10. There Paul talks about the weapons of our warfare being mighty, to the pulling down of strongholds. But there's a very interesting verse that is often overlooked right at the end of the passage:

    2 Cor 10:3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

    What is the Lord talking about there? He is simply saying "do this little thing I command you, and I will do the big thing you cannot do." For instance, march around Jericho 1 time a day, then on the 7th day, march around it 7 times. Then praise Me (God). And when their faith caused them to act obediently, God did for them what they could not do, he displaced the disobient inhabitants of the land. After Joshua's obedience was complete, the Lord God brought down the walls of the stronghold.

    This pattern is all over scripture. If someone wants to be free from debt caused by sin (and yes, I know not all debt is caused by sin but in this case, I am speaking to that which is), then most likely God will give a small command to do, before he tears down the stronghold, the habit, that was probably built up over many years. That command very well could be "give a dollar". Or it could be "go pray every day for anyone but yourself". That command will come to one who seeks the Lord. Maybe it will come directly. Maybe it will come through counseling, for confession is often a part of it. But it will come. And once our obedience is complete to this small thing, the Lord will then do a miracle and set us free.

    God bless,

    Mark



    Hello Brother Randy. While I agree with much of what you write here, there's something that I hope to present for food for thought. First, we are no longer under the law. None of it. In this we are agreed. But lets focus on obedience and deliverance for a moment.

    Throughout the scriptures, God has established a pattern that when he does a miracle, He will often require an obedient act of faith first. (Not always, but often.) This is especially true after we exit Egypt, spiritually speaking (i.e. salvation). When Israel crossed the Jordan on dry ground, they had to take a step first. And keep in mind, that crossing the Jordan was necessary for Israel to live a life of victory. It is the same for us.

    When Jesus performed his first miracle, he gave a command: "Fill these water pots with water." After they were filled, he turned the water into wine. To the 10 lepers He said "go show yourself to the priests." Scripture says they got healed "as they were going". Again, the miracle occurred after obedience. To the man with the withered hand "stretch forth your hand" and then the man was healed. Over and over again we see this pattern with the Lord. Does He sometimes heal, deliver, do the miraculous without a test of faith? Yes he does. But very often, He will give a command, and wait till we believe Him enough to have a work of obedience. Is our faith living or not? In James we are told to "confess our faults to one another, pray for one another that you might be healed". Some healing only comes after we obediently confess. Other examples, during the burning bush, we see God give Moses commands "throw down your rod" and it turned into a serpant. Then "pick up the serpant" and it turned back into a rod. This pattern is throughout the scriptures.

    When dealing with a stronghold (i.e. buying something I "thought" i needed when in fact, I didn't need it suggests a stronghold), we also see obedience as a major part of the equation. Check out 2 Cor. 10. There Paul talks about the weapons of our warfare being mighty, to the pulling down of strongholds. But there's a very interesting verse that is often overlooked right at the end of the passage:

    2 Cor 10:3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

    What is the Lord talking about there? He is simply saying "do this little thing I command you, and I will do the big thing you cannot do." For instance, march around Jericho 1 time a day, then on the 7th day, march around it 7 times. Then praise Me (God). And when their faith caused them to act obediently, God did for them what they could not do, he displaced the disobient inhabitants of the land. After Joshua's obedience was complete, the Lord God brought down the walls of the stronghold.

    This pattern is all over scripture. If someone wants to be free from debt caused by sin (and yes, I know not all debt is caused by sin but in this case, I am speaking to that which is), then most likely God will give a small command to do, before he tears down the stronghold, the habit, that was probably built up over many years. That command very well could be "give a dollar". Or it could be "go pray every day for anyone but yourself". That command will come to one who seeks the Lord. Maybe it will come directly. Maybe it will come through counseling, for confession is often a part of it. But it will come. And once our obedience is complete to this small thing, the Lord will then do a miracle and set us free.

    God bless,

    Mark
    I strongly believe that God's word extends beyond the Scriptures to apply to our practical everyday life. If we can't give from day to day, then how can we think giving to the church is anything more than a formality? We have to give from the heart. That takes place in our day to day contacts.

    It isn't always easy to give to people--even brothers and sisters. I've been "ripped off" for substantial amounts of money, or hood-winked--even by Christians. I've been taken advantage of. And I've been victimized by pleas for donations. I'm older and wiser now. But I don't want my heart to become hard.

    We know if our heart is becoming hard because our wife feels neglected, our kids feel neglected, our neighbors feel neglected. As a Christians someone's always going to let you know you're neglecting them!

    Thanks brother. I think that's good advice. Nobody can really say what God's telling you to do as an individual. But when God puts it in front of you, it's wise counsel to go ahead and do it.

  8. #98
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    During a private conversation concerning this thread, this is a portion of one of my responses. I pray this can edify those involved in this thread

    A cut/paste, no editing:
    Yea, it burns me when Christians put so little thought into their church and into the ministries of the church. They can pay for a fine vacation, or buy a 3rd car. They can buy all kinds of things for their house, or toys of various kinds. But they put the church like 3rd down the list of important things.

    What about that? We need to focus on the importance of spiritual things for people in their lives! They just can't be happy if at the center of their lives there is only materialism and preoccupation with self! People need a purpose, and that comes from their Creator. We need to give what it takes to make this outreach available and visible. We need to do our part.

    My prayer is that people will stop putting themselves into debt, and learn to live on less. Make some money, pay off the debtors, and increase giving to the ministries. I need to do this myself. Thanks brother!

  9. #99
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yea, it burns me when Christians put so little thought into their church and into the ministries of the church. They can pay for a fine vacation, or buy a 3rd car. They can buy all kinds of things for their house, or toys of various kinds. But they put the church like 3rd down the list of important things.

    What about that? We need to focus on the importance of spiritual things for people in their lives! They just can't be happy if at the center of their lives there is only materialism and preoccupation with self! People need a purpose, and that comes from their Creator. We need to give what it takes to make this outreach available and visible. We need to do our part.

    My prayer is that people will stop putting themselves into debt, and learn to live on less. Make some money, pay off the debtors, and increase giving to the ministries. I need to do this myself. Thanks brother!
    I agree, but let's face it, if most people are going to churches where the money they give will be foolishly spent/wasted, why would they put more "thought into their church and into the ministries of the church"? The first step is to care enough to find a church that's a good steward of God's money. That takes a lot of effort. You have to really care, and you have to get to where Slug1 was. There's several types of bad ground, and one good ground. A lot of lukewarm and a little hot. Many taking the broad path, few the narrow. This is not only true for individuals but churches. Birds of a feather flock together. So the first thing to do is evaluate the church you are going to. Don't just have a change of heart and start throwing good money into a useless church with"ministries" that serve the flesh and forget christians in need and the lost and dying world. That makes you as bad a steward of God's money as the church foolishly spending/wasting it.

  10. #100
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    I agree, but let's face it, if most people are going to churches where the money they give will be foolishly spent/wasted, why would they put more "thought into their church and into the ministries of the church"? The first step is to care enough to find a church that's a good steward of God's money. That takes a lot of effort. You have to really care, and you have to get to where Slug1 was. There's several types of bad ground, and one good ground. A lot of lukewarm and a little hot. Many taking the broad path, few the narrow. This is not only true for individuals but churches. Birds of a feather flock together. So the first thing to do is evaluate the church you are going to. Don't just have a change of heart and start throwing good money into a useless church with"ministries" that serve the flesh and forget christians in need and the lost and dying world. That makes you as bad a steward of God's money as the church foolishly spending/wasting it.
    I would still give to God the amount that I give, even if the church I attend isn't stewarding properly. If I was to stop because of that, I am once again finding an "EXCUSE" not to give to God.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  11. #101
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Man, can't edit...

    yes, I agree 100% about finding a church that stewards and does use the money received to further the Kingdom properly.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  12. #102
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Who said don't give to God? I said don't give it to a bad steward. Be the good steward until you find a good church, but NEVER give it to a bad. That makes you bad. Keep it until you either find a good church, or a good need.

  13. #103
    Join Date
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Who said don't give to God? I said don't give it to a bad steward. Be the good steward until you find a good church, but NEVER give it to a bad. That makes you bad. Keep it until you either find a good church, or a good need.
    Hooah. Always a concern, if a person takes 2-3 months to find a church, during the search, hold it completely? Or once a church is found, give the 2-3 months "worth" of the givings at the first opportunity?

    I've actually talked about this during Bible study at church and I was surprised by the amount of answers that said they'd just pickup after the time of searching and the normal givings during the time of searching, was not saved. Basically the extra monies in the budget was blown

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Who said don't give to God? I said don't give it to a bad steward. Be the good steward until you find a good church, but NEVER give it to a bad. That makes you bad. Keep it until you either find a good church, or a good need.
    Hooah. Always a concern, if a person takes 2-3 months to find a church, during the search, hold it completely? Or once a church is found, give the 2-3 months "worth" of the givings at the first opportunity?

    I've actually talked about this during Bible study at church and I was surprised by the amount of answers that said they'd just pickup after the time of searching and the normal givings during the time of searching, was not saved. Basically the extra monies in the budget was blown
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  14. #104
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    It couldn't have been more clear Slug1.

  15. #105
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    Re: Is the Tithe a Bondage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    I agree, but let's face it, if most people are going to churches where the money they give will be foolishly spent/wasted, why would they put more "thought into their church and into the ministries of the church"? The first step is to care enough to find a church that's a good steward of God's money. That takes a lot of effort. You have to really care, and you have to get to where Slug1 was. There's several types of bad ground, and one good ground. A lot of lukewarm and a little hot. Many taking the broad path, few the narrow. This is not only true for individuals but churches. Birds of a feather flock together. So the first thing to do is evaluate the church you are going to. Don't just have a change of heart and start throwing good money into a useless church with"ministries" that serve the flesh and forget christians in need and the lost and dying world. That makes you as bad a steward of God's money as the church foolishly spending/wasting it.
    This may seem weak to you...or not. But last night I had a dream--actually I woke up with it this morning. In my dream my pastor and his family were squeezed into a very small one room apartment. They didn't have enough money to live in a regular home because a daughter had had many surgeries, and the money had gone out in tithing and in paying for medical bills.

    I woke up feeling bad, that I may have been judging my pastor too harshly. It is likely true that he regularly tithes a full tenth, and it is also likely true that a lot of his money has been consumed with medical concerns. His daughter has had perhaps 15 surgeries, and his wife has a serious intestinal problem--one that will possibly take her life. He also has had several surgeries. He did have one bona fide miracle--a likely cancerous mass that mysterious disappeared off the Xrays.

    Maybe I do need to be aware of not judging too harshly, expecting too much? This is a good pastor. The board is not the best, and they tend to vote for projects more out of emotion than out of wisdom. So yes, I won't put too much money into these "foolish" projects. But I will continue, for the time being, giving to a church that, though weak, continues to preach the real gospel. I can put some of the errors in doctrine aside. People can still get saved and healed, and they can be taught to grow up in Christ.

    In reality, the pastor has 2 houses. He has been letting his daughter live, possibly rent free, in 1 of his houses for a few years. But recently he made his daughter and his son-in-law move out, and he plans to sell his favorite house. You can see how I am bothered by paying into a church when the pastor has 2 houses, lets his daughter live in 1 of them--perhaps for free, and then wants a very small church to finance both his salary and build a parsonage for his associate, substitute pastor?

    But in my dream I saw a different picture. It was very real! I suppose the message is, I shouldn't judge until all the facts are out?

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