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Thread: Israel of God or of man?

  1. #46
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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    This is a wrong assertion. Only a few thousand from the ten Northern tribes moved to Judah circa 722-717 BC

    The Jewish people know very well that they represent only 2 tribes' Judah and Benjamin. Those who joined them became Jews, practicing Judaism.
    The Jews are not; as many as the sands of the sea, as the other ten tribes are today, till scattered among the nations.

    You say the Kingdom will be offered again to the Jews. Where does the Bible say that. Please provide the scripture, or be branded as a false teacher.
    No, what you are teaching is a false claim made by certain people who want to claim they are the "missing" tribes of Israel.
    There were still distinct tribes (from the north) in Israel at the time of Jesus - 700 years after the exile, which basically disproves the notion that it was only a few.
    It was sufficient (a big enough remnant) for it to be continued through those centuries and including the exile to Babylon.

    You also forget there was Levi and Simeon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    This is a wrong assertion. Only a few thousand from the ten Northern tribes moved to Judah circa 722-717 BC

    The Jewish people know very well that they represent only 2 tribes' Judah and Benjamin. Those who joined them became Jews, practicing Judaism.
    The Jews are not; as many as the sands of the sea, as the other ten tribes are today, till scattered among the nations.

    You say the Kingdom will be offered again to the Jews. Where does the Bible say that. Please provide the scripture, or be branded as a false teacher.
    No, what you are teaching is a false claim made by certain people who want to claim they are the "missing" tribes of Israel.
    There were still distinct tribes (from the north) in Israel at the time of Jesus - 700 years after the exile, which basically disproves the notion that it was only a few.
    It was sufficient (a big enough remnant) for it to be continued through those centuries and including the exile to Babylon.

    You also forget there was Levi and Simeon.

  2. #47
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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post

    Jesus is the predicted Jewish King who ushered in an interim program by building the sons of the kingdom into the church in between Israel's past rejection and future acceptance of her king. As we see in Matt. 23:37-39 Jesus tells the Jews that he would have gathered them unto himself, if they only would [have accepted him], behold your house is left desolate, you will not see me again until you say "BLESSED IS HE THAT COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD !" The problem is they would not accept Jesus, they drove him out of the Fathers Temple, thus the Father's house became "their house". So Jesus is quoting Psalm 118:26, saying he will not come back until this nation acknowledges me as the Messiah. So in Matthew 24 and 25 an explanation is given as per how Israel is going to come back into the fold.

    So Matthew/Jesus is dealing with the end of the interadvent age, not the Church age.
    I can't agree with your postponement theory of Israel's salvation.

    I can't agree with you that there was a Plan-A and a Plan-B set of programs.

    If Israel is forced to wait for their salvation, until some speculative end-time period, Peter would not have preached these words at Pentecost to All Israelites who were living then, and who would live throughout the last 2,000 years:

    Acts 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and they said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. "


    Peter preaching by the Holy Spirit, knew nothing of postponing the salvation of all Israelites, 2000+ years into the future.

  3. #48
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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    I can't agree with your postponement theory of Israel's salvation.

    I can't agree with you that there was a Plan-A and a Plan-B set of programs.

    If Israel is forced to wait for their salvation, until some speculative end-time period, Peter would not have preached these words at Pentecost to All Israelites who were living then, and who would live throughout the last 2,000 years:

    Acts 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and they said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. "


    Peter preaching by the Holy Spirit, knew nothing of postponing the salvation of all Israelites, 2000+ years into the future.
    Nicely said. ....... postponement makes no sense at all in light of the NT
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  4. #49
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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    No, what you are teaching is a false claim made by certain people who want to claim they are the "missing" tribes of Israel.
    There were still distinct tribes (from the north) in Israel at the time of Jesus - 700 years after the exile, which basically disproves the notion that it was only a few.
    It was sufficient (a big enough remnant) for it to be continued through those centuries and including the exile to Babylon.

    You also forget there was Levi and Simeon.

    After the return from Assyrian and Babylonian exile; all 12 tribes were once again living in the land; and all twelve tribes were known and represented.
    Reading Nehemiah and Ezra, presently this very clearly.

    Lost-Tribes only hideout in the Bermuda Triangle with Bigfoot; in the sensational myth category.

    Instead of looking for tribes, folks need to be looking for the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, for which all the Patriarchs looked forward to.

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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    Nicely said. ....... postponement makes no sense at all in light of the NT
    It makes perfect sense for Orthodox Jews who reject Jesus as Messiah, and are still looking for a coming Messiah and a coming literal kingdom reign on the earth over the gentile nations.

    But to a NT Christian, postponement makes no progress forward, after "IT IS Finished" was spoken.

  6. #51
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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    That is positively false! The Scriptures say repeatedly that God did the act of sending Babylon as a judgment against apostate Israel! You know full well that I already added the caveat--God did not do the evil itself. That is, God wasn't evil in sending judgment. God wasn't inspiring the evil in the Babylonians. God simply sent evil men against apostate men. That doesn't make God evil!

    Eze 21.A message from the Lord came to me. The Lord said, 2 “Son of man, turn your attention to Jerusalem. Preach against the temple. Prophesy against the land of Israel. 3 Tell them, ‘The Lord says, “I am against you. I will pull out my sword. I will remove from you godly people and sinful people alike. 4 Because I am going to remove them, my sword will be ready to use. I will strike down everyone from south to north. 5 Then all people will know that I have pulled out my sword. I will not put it back. I am the Lord.” ’
    That means we are saying the same thing

    The king of Babylon was an idolator and was worshipped as the son of the gods. He is one of a number of types of Antichrist, ruled by the spirit of Satan. The Babylonians were idolators.

    If God sent them against Israel, how did He accomplish this? Did God:

    a) Inspire the idolator to go out against His city and temple? or did God:
    b) Drag the Babylonian army by their noses against their will to Jerusalem and say, "Do what I tell you to do!"?

    No. God did not 'cause' an antichrist ruled by the spirit of Satan to do it. He simply "sent Nebuchadnezzar against Judah" by withdrawing His protection of Judah.

    Of course God could warn them that He would bring Nebuchadnezzar against them, and He did warn them that this is what He was going to do, but the warning that God was going to do it is in a manner of speaking only . God Himself does not inspire, or do evil. He simply allows man to do what he plans to do without thwarting man's plans.

    6 of one and half a dozen of the other, you could say - but it's only half the truth.

  7. #52
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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    It makes perfect sense for Orthodox Jews who reject Jesus as Messiah, and are still looking for a coming Messiah and a coming literal kingdom reign on the earth over the gentile nations.

    But to a NT Christian, postponement makes no progress forward, after "IT IS Finished" was spoken.
    Agree. ..........
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  8. #53
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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    I can't agree with your postponement theory of Israel's salvation.

    I can't agree with you that there was a Plan-A and a Plan-B set of programs.

    If Israel is forced to wait for their salvation, until some speculative end-time period, Peter would not have preached these words at Pentecost to All Israelites who were living then, and who would live throughout the last 2,000 years:

    Acts 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and they said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. "


    Peter preaching by the Holy Spirit, knew nothing of postponing the salvation of all Israelites, 2000+ years into the future.
    Great post Dave I agree and so does the scriptures

  9. #54
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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    That is positively false! The Scriptures say repeatedly that God did the act of sending Babylon as a judgment against apostate Israel! You know full well that I already added the caveat--God did not do the evil itself. That is, God wasn't evil in sending judgment. God wasn't inspiring the evil in the Babylonians. God simply sent evil men against apostate men. That doesn't make God evil!

    Eze 21.A message from the Lord came to me. The Lord said, 2 “Son of man, turn your attention to Jerusalem. Preach against the temple. Prophesy against the land of Israel. 3 Tell them, ‘The Lord says, “I am against you. I will pull out my sword. I will remove from you godly people and sinful people alike. 4 Because I am going to remove them, my sword will be ready to use. I will strike down everyone from south to north. 5 Then all people will know that I have pulled out my sword. I will not put it back. I am the Lord.” ’
    I concur. God is not evil, but righteous and exacts "righteous judgment" on the wicked (James 1:13).

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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by m'lo goy View Post
    I believe God was speaking to Jeremiah regarding the Judeans of his day when He said, do not pray for them. He was basically saying, "It's too late, I'm going to have to do what I'm going to have to do".

    Those words do not hold true for our day. We have to look at context.
    Couldn't agree more. The passage refers to OT Judah, not those living today.

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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    I appreciate your post even though it may be dangerous waters. The facts are that those who rejecte Jesus are outside God’s Kingdom because He is the only way as He Himself stated in John 14:6. Talk of salvation for a nation in the future dose not help the people in the past or the people of that nation living now.

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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxjj View Post
    I appreciate your post even though it may be dangerous waters. The facts are that those who rejecte Jesus are outside God’s Kingdom because He is the only way as He Himself stated in John 14:6. Talk of salvation for a nation in the future dose not help the people in the past or the people of that nation living now.
    It can help those going through trouble to know there is a plan and hope.
    Consider Daniel, and think what he went through and then what God revealed to him which brought out praise in the midst of the loss.

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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    It can help those going through trouble to know there is a plan and hope.
    Consider Daniel, and think what he went through and then what God revealed to him which brought out praise in the midst of the loss.
    But the plan has already been implemented and was finished on the cross. What about all of those from 70AD onward, until right now, this ”future plan” to save some does not help those dead or soon to be dead.
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  14. #59
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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    2 Corinthians 6:2

    2 For he says,

    “In the time of my favor I heard you,
    and in the day of salvation I helped you.”[a]
    I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

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    Re: Israel of God or of man?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor
    I can't agree with your postponement theory of Israel's salvation.

    I can't agree with you that there was a Plan-A and a Plan-B set of programs.

    It's called the "Kingdom Offer" theory, first put forward by Schofield. The proper understanding is that the 'Kingdom of God' is the Israel of believing Jews and Gentiles.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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