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Thread: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

  1. #31

    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Attack helicopters KILL people. These locusts will not.
    Now perhaps you mean they are converted to crowd suppression helicopters...

    However there is also nothing which makes it restricted to Israel, Syria, Iraq.
    These locusts will not kill people for 5 months. During Operation Desert Shield, the helicopters did not need to kill people yet.

  2. #32
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    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Quote Originally Posted by greenonions View Post
    These locusts will not kill people for 5 months. During Operation Desert Shield, the helicopters did not need to kill people yet.
    Great point. The 5 months may simply be a delayed death, a slow death.

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    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Quote Originally Posted by greenonions View Post
    These locusts will not kill people for 5 months. During Operation Desert Shield, the helicopters did not need to kill people yet.
    They were then not in operation against the people. These locusts actually HARM people.
    Further the sum total they cause an issue is 5 months after that they are no more mentioned.

  4. #34

    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    They were then not in operation against the people. These locusts actually HARM people.
    Further the sum total they cause an issue is 5 months after that they are no more mentioned.
    Revelation 9:10 KJV And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

    The word translated "harm" or "hurt" in Revelation 9:10 is adikesai (G91), which means: to be unjust, i.e. (actively) do wrong (morally, socially or physically). It is not limited to physical violence.

    Matthew 20:13 WEB “But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong [adiko]. Didn’t you agree with me for a denarius?

    Operation Desert Shield started on Aug. 2, 1990. The UN sanctions against Iraq started on Aug. 6, 1990. That is one way that the nations represented by the helicopters "wronged" or "hurt" the Iraqis without killing them.

  5. #35
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    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Quote Originally Posted by greenonions View Post
    Revelation 9:10 KJV And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

    The word translated "harm" or "hurt" in Revelation 9:10 is adikesai (G91), which means: to be unjust, i.e. (actively) do wrong (morally, socially or physically). It is not limited to physical violence.

    Matthew 20:13 WEB “But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong [adiko]. Didn’t you agree with me for a denarius?

    Operation Desert Shield started on Aug. 2, 1990. The UN sanctions against Iraq started on Aug. 6, 1990. That is one way that the nations represented by the helicopters "wronged" or "hurt" the Iraqis without killing them.
    And? The point is that the locusts could not kill. The helicopters did NOT wrong the Iraqis during the sanctions. The nations may have done, but the point in Revelation is that it is the locusts who are causing the hurt/harm, and not some nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenonions View Post
    These locusts will not kill people for 5 months. During Operation Desert Shield, the helicopters did not need to kill people yet.
    They also didn't harm anyone yet either.
    However the purpose of the helicopter is when they are in use they will attack and kill.

  6. #36

    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Hello I'm new here.
    I was looking up the word tail and came up with this verse:
    Isa 9:15
    The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

    When Jesus was speaking to the disciples about the end times he gave this as the first sign:
    Luk 21:8
    And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
    These then being the false prophets or liars.

    There were stings in the tails which had power to hurt men.
    So I went looking for "Sting"

    1Co 15:56
    The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

    Is it possible then that these scorpions (false prophets) were those which had power over laws which cause sin ?

    And yet we are given hope in which the Lord says:
    Luk 10:19
    Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

    The winds of politics are at the forefront of my mind lately. So in this frame of mind I read this verse as:

    Scorpions = Politicians
    Tails = Legislating Laws
    Stings = Laws that are opposed to God
    5 months = an amount of time we will be prosecuted according to those laws.

    Today's politicians are legislating laws which are opposed to God's laws. And what we see today or what I see today is those whom are doing a lot of wrong walking free. And those who do the right things are being persocuted. For instance the case of the Covington Kids vs. the Black Israelites vs. the banging drum indian. Only the kids were persocuted. Until the Truth came to Light.
    and yet as Peter says:
    Act 5:29
    Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

    Which ties in with the promise of Luke 10:19

    just an observation.

  7. #37

    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Hi Lonewalker, and welcome to Bible Forums.

    I had made a post a long while back (doubt I could find it) about Revelation 9:1-11 and the "prophets/lies/tails" (related to Isaiah 9:15, if I recall), and in the Olivet Discourse (Lk21:8 I believe to be a part of "the beginning of birth PANGS" [during first half of the tribulation period, as I see it]) all within the future, limited time period aka "the [7-yr] tribulation period" leading UP TO His Second coming to the earth, and my conclusion was that it's likely false prophets and their lies, and I did think it related somewhat to the law. I believe the "first woe" ['one woe is past'] (events) [Rev9:12] starts at mid-trib, so that these "five months" would be one of the first set of events to occur within the start of the second half of the 7-yr tribulation period. That's sort of how I see it.

    Glad to hear your thoughts on the matter.

  8. #38

    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Quote Originally Posted by greenonions View Post
    The idea of the centaur is imaginative. God paints interesting pictures.

    Another explanation I've heard is the locusts as US Apache helicopters in the Gulf War. They look kind of like locusts. They have armour and equipment like battle horses. The rotor on top is like a crown (maybe looks like gold if it reflects sunlight). There are faces of men in the cockpit. Apache Indian men had long hair.
    But helicopters don't have hair. And the rotor on top of an Apache helicopter does not "look like gold." And there is no "sting in the tail."

    This sort of thing is just misinterpreting Revelation.

  9. #39

    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Quote Originally Posted by Radagast View Post
    But helicopters don't have hair. And the rotor on top of an Apache helicopter does not "look like gold." And there is no "sting in the tail."

    This sort of thing is just misinterpreting Revelation.
    Definitely there are many unanswered questions regarding the interpretation of the 5th trumpet. I just found the helicopter explanation very interesting, but still don't have it all together. Critiques are helpful and can lead to more ideas. For example, looking at a picture of an Apache helicopter, maybe the rotors are not the crown, but the hair, while the round thing on top of the rotors (Longbow millimeter fire-control radar) is the crown and can be painted yellow in some cases, and the stings could be the propeller blades on the tail.

  10. #40
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    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    According to Rev 13:7 the land of the Beast will not be limited to Israel, Syria and Iraq.
    Sure the beast will have authority across the whole world as per Rev 13:7

    But the location of the locusts uses the word "ge", a word often used for a localised land in the bible:
    Mat 4:15 The land (GE) G1093 of Zabulon, and the land (GE) G1093 of Nephthalim
    Mat 9:26 And the fame hereof went abroad into all that land. (GE) G1093
    Luk 4:25 when great famine was throughout all the land (GE) G1093
    Act 7:3 Get thee out of thy country (GE) G1093 and from thy kindred, and come into the land G1093 which I shall shew thee


    So when Rev 9 describes the affected location as "GE", we cannot be sure it means the whole earth,when that word so often refers to a certain land:
    Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the (GE) G1093 and unto them was given power

  11. #41
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    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewalker View Post
    Hello I'm new here.
    I was looking up the word tail and came up with this verse:
    Isa 9:15
    The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

    When Jesus was speaking to the disciples about the end times he gave this as the first sign:
    Luk 21:8
    And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
    These then being the false prophets or liars.

    There were stings in the tails which had power to hurt men.
    So I went looking for "Sting"

    1Co 15:56
    The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

    Is it possible then that these scorpions (false prophets) were those which had power over laws which cause sin ?

    And yet we are given hope in which the Lord says:
    Luk 10:19
    Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

    The winds of politics are at the forefront of my mind lately. So in this frame of mind I read this verse as:

    Scorpions = Politicians
    Tails = Legislating Laws
    Stings = Laws that are opposed to God
    5 months = an amount of time we will be prosecuted according to those laws.

    Today's politicians are legislating laws which are opposed to God's laws. And what we see today or what I see today is those whom are doing a lot of wrong walking free. And those who do the right things are being persocuted. For instance the case of the Covington Kids vs. the Black Israelites vs. the banging drum indian. Only the kids were persocuted. Until the Truth came to Light.
    and yet as Peter says:
    Act 5:29
    Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

    Which ties in with the promise of Luke 10:19

    just an observation.
    Good observations, however these 5 months will not be against the saints but against those who don't have the seal of God.

  12. #42

    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Hadn't thought of that. Thank You ForHisglory!

    So that brings my thoughts to the Executive Order which was made in 2017 and renewed in 2018 regarding crimes against humanity. Perhaps if your not walking in God's path then these "scorpions" (are they good or bad, do they serve God's purpose? ) with "stings" in their tails could be Justice finally for those who commit henious crimes.

    Executive Order
    Dec 21, 2017 renewed dec 21 2018

    EXECUTIVE ORDERS

    Executive Order Blocking the Property of Persons Involved in Serious Human Rights Abuse or Corruption
    LAW & JUSTICE

    Issued on: December 21, 2018

    By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) (NEA), the Global Magnitsky Human Rights Accountability Act (Public Law 114-328) (the “Act”), section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 (8 U.S.C. 1182(f)) (INA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,

    I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, find that the prevalence and severity of human rights abuse and corruption that have their source, in whole or in substantial part, outside the United States, such as those committed or directed by persons listed in the Annex to this order, have reached such scope and gravity that they threaten the stability of international political and economic systems. Human rights abuse and corruption undermine the values that form an essential foundation of stable, secure, and functioning societies; have devastating impacts on individuals; weaken democratic institutions; degrade the rule of law; perpetuate violent conflicts; facilitate the activities of dangerous persons; and undermine economic markets. The United States seeks to impose tangible and significant consequences on those who commit serious human rights abuse or engage in corruption, as well as to protect the financial system of the United States from abuse by these same persons.

    I therefore determine that serious human rights abuse and corruption around the world constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States, and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat.

    I hereby determine and order:

    Section 1. (a) All property and interests in property that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of any United States person of the following persons are blocked and may not be transferred, paid, exported, withdrawn, or otherwise dealt in:

    (i) the persons listed in the Annex to this order;

    (ii) any foreign person determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Attorney General:

    (A) to be responsible for or complicit in, or to have directly or indirectly engaged in, serious human rights abuse;

    (B) to be a current or former government official, or a person acting for or on behalf of such an official, who is responsible for or complicit in, or has directly or indirectly engaged in:

    (1) corruption, including the misappropriation of state assets, the expropriation of private assets for personal gain, corruption related to government contracts or the extraction of natural resources, or bribery; or

    (2) the transfer or the facilitation of the transfer of the proceeds of corruption;

    (C) to be or have been a leader or official of:

    (1) an entity, including any government entity, that has engaged in, or whose members have engaged in, any of the activities described in subsections (ii)(A), (ii)(B)(1), or (ii)(B)(2) of this section relating to the leader’s or official’s tenure; or

    (2) an entity whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order as a result of activities related to the leader’s or official’s tenure; or

    (D) to have attempted to engage in any of the activities described in subsections (ii)(A), (ii)(B)(1), or (ii)(B)(2) of this section; and

    (iii) any person determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Attorney General:

    (A) to have materially assisted, sponsored, or provided financial, material, or technological support for, or goods or services to or in support of:

    (1) any activity described in subsections (ii)(A), (ii)(B)(1), or (ii)(B)(2) of this section that is conducted by a foreign person;

    (2) any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order; or

    (3) any entity, including any government entity, that has engaged in, or whose members have engaged in, any of the activities described in subsections (ii)(A), (ii)(B)(1), or (ii)(B)(2) of this section, where the activity is conducted by a foreign person;

    (B) to be owned or controlled by, or to have acted or purported to act for or on behalf of, directly or indirectly, any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order; or

    (C) to have attempted to engage in any of the activities described in subsections (iii)(A) or (B) of this section.

    (b) The prohibitions in subsection (a) of this section apply except to the extent provided by statutes, or in regulations, orders, directives, or licenses that may be issued pursuant to this order, and notwithstanding any contract entered into or any license or permit granted before the effective date of this order.

    Sec. 2. The unrestricted immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens determined to meet one or more of the criteria in section 1 of this order would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and the entry of such persons into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, is hereby suspended. Such persons shall be treated as persons covered by section 1 of Proclamation 8693 of July 24, 2011 (Suspension of Entry of Aliens Subject to United Nations Security Council Travel Bans and International Emergency Economic Powers Act Sanctions).

    Sec. 3. I hereby determine that the making of donations of the types of articles specified in section 203(b)(2) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(2)) by, to, or for the benefit of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order would seriously impair my ability to deal with the national emergency declared in this order, and I hereby prohibit such donations as provided by section 1 of this order.

    Sec. 4. The prohibitions in section 1 include:

    (a) the making of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services by, to, or for the benefit of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order; and

    (b) the receipt of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services from any such person.

    Sec. 5. (a) Any transaction that evades or avoids, has the purpose of evading or avoiding, causes a violation of, or attempts to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.

    (b) Any conspiracy formed to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.

    Sec. 6. For the purposes of this order:

    (a) the term “person” means an individual or entity;

    (b) the term “entity” means a partnership, association, trust, joint venture, corporation, group, subgroup, or other organization; and

    (c) the term “United States person” means any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any jurisdiction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States.

    Sec. 7. For those persons whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order who might have a constitutional presence in the United States, I find that because of the ability to transfer funds or other assets instantaneously, prior notice to such persons of measures to be taken pursuant to this order would render those measures ineffectual. I therefore determine that for these measures to be effective in addressing the national emergency declared in this order, there need be no prior notice of a listing or determination made pursuant to this order.

    Sec. 8. The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State, is hereby authorized to take such actions, including adopting rules and regulations, and to employ all powers granted to me by IEEPA and the Act as may be necessary to implement this order and section 1263(a) of the Act with respect to the determinations provided for therein. The Secretary of the Treasury may, consistent with applicable law, redelegate any of these functions to other officers and agencies of the United States. All agencies shall take all appropriate measures within their authority to implement this order.

    Sec. 9. The Secretary of State is hereby authorized to take such actions, including adopting rules and regulations, and to employ all powers granted to me by IEEPA, the INA, and the Act as may be necessary to carry out section 2 of this order and, in consultation with the Secretary of the Treasury, the reporting requirement in section 1264(a) of the Act with respect to the reports provided for in section 1264(b)(2) of that Act. The Secretary of State may, consistent with applicable law, redelegate any of these functions to other officers and agencies of the United States consistent with applicable law.

    Sec. 10. The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Attorney General, is hereby authorized to determine that circumstances no longer warrant the blocking of the property and interests in property of a person listed in the Annex to this order, and to take necessary action to give effect to that determination.

    Sec. 11. The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State, is hereby authorized to submit recurring and final reports to the Congress on the national emergency declared in this order, consistent with section 401(c) of the NEA (50 U.S.C. 1641(c)) and section 204(c) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1703(c)).

    Sec. 12. This order is effective at 12:01 a.m., Eastern Standard Time, December 21, 2017.

    Sec. 13. This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

    DONALD J. TRUMP

    THE WHITE HOUSE,
    December 20, 2017.
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...se-corruption/

    I suppose that could sting a bit..
    Have a Great Day!

  13. #43
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    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewalker View Post
    Hadn't thought of that. Thank You ForHisglory!

    So that brings my thoughts to the Executive Order which was made in 2017 and renewed in 2018 regarding crimes against humanity. Perhaps if your not walking in God's path then these "scorpions" (are they good or bad, do they serve God's purpose? ) with "stings" in their tails could be Justice finally for those who commit henious crimes.
    ...
    I suppose that could sting a bit..
    Have a Great Day!
    It could indeed.
    What i think confuses many is the actual timeline of events, and most incorrectly have the 5th trumpet as part of the Great Tribulation (when the AC is in power).
    The Trumpets are actually God allowing damage and destruction to the earth He had created in order to bring people to repentance.

    This is why the first Trumpet isn't blown UNTIL everything is in place, the 144K are sealed etc.
    Once that is done, then it is God sending plagues against the world, like He did against Egypt.
    It is only with the 7th Trumpet that the final 3.5 years starts and for this final portion of time, we have the wrath of Satan as well as the Vials of God. There will be no safety anywhere, but people will seek it and may put it above other things.

  14. #44

    Re: Revelation 9 7-10 hypothesis

    This is the order of the verse the second thunder starts this. God will put darkness on that planet this is the Ancient Israel's planet. That planet will be destroyed. Once that is destroyed the star will head east towards earth it must be terminated also. When they understand, they will leave, them that escape and invade Earth. Did you think we are alone in the cosmos.

    Revelation 16:10
    And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,


    Revelation 9:1
    And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.


    Revelation 6:9
    And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

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