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Thread: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

  1. #1
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    The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    How can authority abuse those under authority? The church is to take care of the sheep.

    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...s-13588038.php

    The article is long, but it should be read. When the world has to rebuke the church, something has gone wrong.

    First of three parts

    Thirty-five years later, Debbie Vasquez's voice trembled as she described her trauma to a group of Southern Baptist leaders.
    She was 14, she said, when she was first molested by her pastor in Sanger, a tiny prairie town an hour north of Dallas. It was the first of many assaults that Vasquez said destroyed her teenage years and, at 18, left her pregnant by the Southern Baptist pastor, a married man more than a dozen years older.
    In June 2008, she paid her way to Indianapolis, where she and others asked leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention and its 47,000 churches to track sexual predators and take action against congregations that harbored or concealed abusers. Vasquez, by then in her 40s, implored them to consider prevention policies like those adopted by faiths that include the Catholic Church.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    "First of three parts..." jeez

    From the article
    • Some registered sex offenders returned to the pulpit. Others remain there, including a Houston preacher who sexually assaulted a teenager and now is the principal officer of a Houston nonprofit that works with student organizations, federal records show. Its name: Touching the Future Today Inc.
    There are no words.
    Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
    Ecc 7:10

    John777 exists to me only in quoted form.



  3. #3
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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by teddyv View Post
    "First of three parts..." jeez

    From the article

    There are no words.
    Yea... it's pretty bad. I grew greatly in the SBC. This breaks my heart and angers me all at the same time. I bet it gets dealt with now and it's a shame that the world has to rebuke the church of something we ALL know is deeply wrong.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by teddyv View Post
    "First of three parts..." jeez

    From the article

    There are no words.
    "The Bible calls for pastors to be people of integrity, known for their self-control and kindness," Greear wrote. "A convicted sex offender would certainly not meet those qualifications. Churches that ignore that are out of line with both Scripture and Baptist principles of cooperation."
    No kidding, Captain Obvious.
    Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
    Ecc 7:10

    John777 exists to me only in quoted form.



  5. #5
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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    I know of people who sinned sexually and were restored. But this thing with kids is just so far out, that you can't ever go back into that kind of ministry if you do it. Just no way. It has to be dealt with severely.

    And how can the church just say "forgive and move on"? What great damage that does. Where's the justice in that? Churches that do it right, get those guys out of ministry for a long time. The ones I know that were restored, confessed before it ever came out in the open and it didn't involve children. And, one guy in particular, anytime someone joins his church, he tells them his story... openly. He wants them to hear it from him first. That's genuine repentance and restoration.

    I just can't get over how this was children and those people were not exposed. how can that happen??? In this day an age, with the internet, the SBC could at least keep a file on record of all those convicted, or on trial for review by churches that are hiring... or something similar. To do nothing, just doesn't seem right even with local autonomy. As the writer said, if a church wanted to hire a gay man to be their pastor, the SBC disassociated with that body. Why not the same for these sins?
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by teddyv View Post
    No kidding, Captain Obvious.
    He had to say it though. And he was right. It should never have come to this. Light is a great disinfectant.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    This whole thing also shows that stuff like this can happen from very loose/autonomous organizations like the SBC to highly organized institutions like the the RCC.
    Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
    Ecc 7:10

    John777 exists to me only in quoted form.



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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    On the one hand, the SBC stigmatizes men who were divorced and remarried - even BEFORE they came to Christ - for life. A born again believer who has divorce is his past has a life time sentence of not serving God as an elder or pastor.

    But heck, molesting children apparently is ok.

    What the heck?
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    On the one hand, the SBC stigmatizes men who were divorced and remarried - even BEFORE they came to Christ - for life. A born again believer who has divorce is his past has a life time sentence of not serving God as an elder or pastor.

    But heck, molesting children apparently is ok.

    What the heck?
    Most SBC don't do that with divorce. Nor do most do that with molestation. What's amazing to me is how the convention didn't feel obligated to bring this into the light.

    I was taught by the SBC that when someone got saved, they were a new creature, thus whatever happened prior to salvation could not disqualify a man from office. I was also taught by them the sanctity of marriage. And they taught me that "one wife" was speaking about poligamy. Many of the churches will ask a potential deacon or pastor to give detail about the divorce (especially if post salvation) to make sure that, in their eyes, adultery is did not occur (i.e. the divorce was biblical).

    Anyway, thing is, this sheds horrible light on the convention. I really hope and pray that the SBC takes heed and begins some light shining in dark corners.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Most SBC don't do that with divorce. Nor do most do that with molestation. What's amazing to me is how the convention didn't feel obligated to bring this into the light.

    I was taught by the SBC that when someone got saved, they were a new creature, thus whatever happened prior to salvation could not disqualify a man from office. I was also taught by them the sanctity of marriage. And they taught me that "one wife" was speaking about poligamy. Many of the churches will ask a potential deacon or pastor to give detail about the divorce (especially if post salvation) to make sure that, in their eyes, adultery is did not occur (i.e. the divorce was biblical).

    Anyway, thing is, this sheds horrible light on the convention. I really hope and pray that the SBC takes heed and begins some light shining in dark corners.
    Maybe it was just my local congregation and local board who interpreted that way.....here's a book that's interesting:

    https://www.amazon.com/Disqualified-...s=disqualified


    I think the autonomous declaration is a cop out. Every local Baptist church has an authority overseeing them - mine did, and they have the authority to pull the plug on a congregation, and literally take ownership of the building.

    It's interesting about the one man - one wife thing you mentioned because Charles Stanley was threatened with excommunication because his wife left him.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    By the way, I also believe "one man one wife" is referring to polygamy.

    I also loved my Baptist church. I miss the Wednesday night Bible Studies and the Sunday Evening gatherings. Greatly.

    I'm sad.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Maybe it was just my local congregation and local board who interpreted that way.....here's a book that's interesting:

    https://www.amazon.com/Disqualified-...s=disqualified


    I think the autonomous declaration is a cop out. Every local Baptist church has an authority overseeing them - mine did, and they have the authority to pull the plug on a congregation, and literally take ownership of the building.

    It's interesting about the one man - one wife thing you mentioned because Charles Stanley was threatened with excommunication because his wife left him.
    No doubt it's a cop out. And once the congregations see this article, they will likely go balistic. Hopefully, they do and that will bring change. I am not familiar with Charles Stanley's case.

    Interesting title for a book and interesting description. After reading about harlotry in the OT, my own conclusion is that a man can have a mistress and it doesn't have to be another woman. It can be golf, computers, etc. I know of women who broke covenant with their husband and still expected him to treat them as a wife. They lived as roommates, but he still had to do all husbandly duties. She had already left him in her heart, but felt like Ceasar had the final say. So long as she didn't get those divorce papers, she was still "keeping covenant". IMO, she left him and divorced him long ago. Learned that from some in the SBC. And I think they are right about it. Ceasar doesn't determine someone is divorced. That happens in the heart first and Caesar just acknowledges what has already occurred.

    And what of genuine repentance? It has to count for something. I have heard SBC folks say that they think Paul was married and likely divorced because of the sect he belonged to required marriage. (I am not so up to speed on it.) They think he penned 1 Cor. 7 by the hand of the Holy Spirit, but that the Holy Spirit was using Paul's experience to write it.

    Anyway, thing is, I hope this article enrages some congregants and they see to it that the SBC deals with it. And you are right, it's a copout that the churches are autonomous. Shed light and let the church keep its autonomy if you want. But bring in the light!

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    By the way, I also believe "one man one wife" is referring to polygamy.

    I also loved my Baptist church. I miss the Wednesday night Bible Studies and the Sunday Evening gatherings. Greatly.

    I'm sad.
    Yea... the SBC does fantastic job with discipleship. At least the ones that avoided this fiasco. I am simply amazed that the whole thing seems to have been covered up.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    OK...I'm on the same page brother. Thanks for your perspective.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    1) Before saying anything, it is horrible what the individual did the girl.


    2) I wanted to share some SBC perspective from an SBC lifetime member, to those who may not know what the SBC is, how it is organized, and how the SBC churches are organized.

    3) The SBC organization does not run SBC churches. There is no leadership involvement. All SBC churches are independent legal autonomous corporations/congregations (you have to be a corp to be nonProfit), and have their own bylaws (constitution) and trustees (board of directors of the corporation). Legally, 3rd Baptist Church of Bora Bora is only accountable to itself from a ruling perspective.

    4) Individual SBC churches can choose to join their local SBC association, their state SBC association, and the national SBC association; if they choose to. I believe there are some ground rules they agree to (may even right them into their church constitution), but they are still self autonomous.

    5) The purpose of the SBC Nationally, as well as state and regional associations, is to allow small, and sometimes not small, churches to pool their resources, to advance the mission field, among other things. 1 rural church might not be able to sponsor a missionary family in Laos, but 10 rural churches pooled together could. Also the SBC provides experience and trained leaders in to assist local churches in these types of endeavors that they otherwise wouldn't know how to go about participating in.

    6) The SBC cannot control, punish, or provide authority over any local congregation. If the SBC chose to remove a local church from it's membership, say a local church wanted to start workshipping Judas Iscariot as co-redemptrix with Christ; then they could say xyz church is no longer SBC, but they really couldn't apply any authority over them, or anything punative.

    8) The SBC isn't organized in oversight over member churches like other organizations are; to be punative to them directly.

    9) All of the above, is based on what I know. Some may be on target; or wrong because of my own ignorance.

    10) we live in a fallen cursed world; and the devil is at work in every congregation, association, and corner of the globe; trying to undo the glory of Christ's majesty. Large organizations by sheer numbers, are more often succeptable to more horrific events, but we have to continue to be salt and light, amongst the darkness. We must stay strong and vigilant in unity where as much as possible.

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    Re: The SBC and s*xual assualt, mol*estation, etc

    Fortunately God can be trusted over men. In Him there is no darkness, He hears our cry and knows we are dust, He is our sun and shield, like a Father who has compassion on His children. God draws the broken to Himself despite the actions of "pastors" and "leaders." They will have healing and joy and peace as promised...
    「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
    撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

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