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Thread: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

  1. #46
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    Agree Keck and REVman, Fenris has lots to offer ( us-Christians ) but he does not see many things as we do. I don’t fear him at all.

    He is not saved however ( as we understand it ) and does not understand the Scriptures as we do ( he’s admitted this ).

    That a huge issue don’t you think?

    I have a buddy at work, True Blue conservative if there ever was one, but he does not know the Lord. Not one bit, but he’s got it right as far as politics and cultural issues go. I agree with Him, but he totally misses the whole picture. The BIG picture.

    He can only teach me so much, and he can teach me nothing about the Gospel and how to have a relationship with Christ.
    It is a big issue, but we need to put our trust in God more than our fire and brimstone rhetoric.

    Paul spoke at Mars Hill in love, not condemnation.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  2. #47
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    True, its like the Pharisees trying to teach Christ, or Peter/Paul, it just not going to be very constructive. Nicodemus might have eventually got it.
    Need I remind you Paul was a Pharisee, and remained a Pharisee after his submission to Jesus?
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Current Quantum physics has the entire universe expanding to it's current size in less than one millionth of a second. The speed of light is irrelevant to the expansion as those physics did not exist in this 1st second of creation.

    If anyone doesn't see the hand of God in this narrative, they must be blind.
    I remember the physics professor teaching us this during college. My friend who was sitting next to me, leaned over and said something like "they don't understand the beginning how can they understand anything that comes later?" I was impressed with his insight. Our physics explains a good portion of the current universe, but they have real problems with that first portion of a second. It's fascinating to me.

    My co-workers and I were sitting around talking about the big bang theory one day. After all had left, I asked the last guy "where do you think that first piece of infinitesimal mass came from". His response... "I don't like to think about that".
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    I remember the physics professor teaching us this during college. My friend who was sitting next to me, leaned over and said something like "they don't understand the beginning how can they understand anything that comes later?" I was impressed with his insight. Our physics explains a good portion of the current universe, but they have real problems with that first portion of a second. It's fascinating to me.

    My co-workers and I were sitting around talking about the big bang theory one day. After all had left, I asked the last guy "where do you think that first piece of infinitesimal mass came from". His response... "I don't like to think about that".
    yeah....I mean if we have mathematically traced the origin of the universe back to a unit of planck time and understand the significance of virtually infinite low entropy that existed in that moment, then surely we can see the God of Order behind that utterance.

    And if the expansion that took place before "the big bang" happened during one planck time unit, surely we can see from where that incredible force proceeded from.

    God created that - not in 6 days as we measure days, but in the smallest increment of time we can conceive - so small the uncertainty principle as we understand it puts a dark lens on the entire process.

    The Glory of God is so far above our perception that we get lost in silly arguments. I think we're going to be embarrassed when we actually get to see our faith.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    Your aware that just because we believe something, ( even with all our hearts ) does not make it true? Just saying.
    I don't sit here and tell you what I BELIEVE 24/7/365 brother. If I give an opinion, it is my opinion, but the Spirit leads us into all TRUTH, that is what the Holy Spirit does. You thinking or inferring that I don't know the difference between my beliefs and the unction of the Spirit is kind of strange, I mean I have been preaching for 33 years, and I admit there are some goofballs that have been preaching as long or longer, but I think my posts attest to my Christian walk. But what we believe or surmise should in no way take the place of the Holy Spirit's lead, but I understand the voice of the Holy Spirit just like Paul/Peter and millions of other faithful servants down through the years have. This universe being 13.7 billion years old is a no brainer brother, the facts are the facts, and the Holy Spirit led me to that conclusion. The Day of the Lord is not a one day event either, the Lord led me to that years ago by reading the bible, that is pretty simple stuff there unlike the creation of the universe. Now I had no clue as per to what Babylon and the Harlot was in general for 20-25 years, so I never attested to understand it in full, I would give my opinions and say thus and thus is my opinion, but then when I was given the understanding about three years ago I wrote a blog on what it is via what the Holy Spirit led me to understand, so I understand the voice of the Holy Spirit, I don't just BELIEVE THINGS !! Kinda amused by that one to be honest brother.

    We can all learn from each other, perhaps another sees something we don’t? We are all prone to error. True truth be the real destination. Yes?
    Of course we can, some are feet, some are hands, some are toes etc. I find we have too many people trying to teach prophecy when they are not called unto prophecy, I agree we can learn from each other, but not if a arm is trying t be a leg. I knew what my calling was in the early 80's. But I didn't understand it in full, but later on it got confirmed, and in some strange ways {to me at the time it was strange}, I had a vision where I was running from some evil people, I had 2 small kids with me, I hid behind a bush by a house and all of the sudden this BOOMING VOICE from above said, "The Man of Sin is here", and that was all that was said, not the Anti-Christ in which I might have thought, well there are MANY, but the ONE Man of Sin !! So I thought to myself, OK, that was odd, but like relatively new Christians I kinda discounted what I has seen, it was not something I had ever dealt with. But God has His ways of CONFIRMING His intentions unto us, LOL, that is true. So then I have another vision, and I have never had but like 3 or 4 in my whole life, but this time I was with like maybe 10 other people, in this HUGE ARENA {Maybe 1986} and Jimmy Swaggart was preaching, then within 2 weeks he had fallen from Grace and I was like, Ohhh, I get it, God was showing my this guys mantle had been taken from him {at least for a while} and God had shown me there would be NO CROWDS for him anymore, thus the 10 people in the HUGE ARENA. Then at that moment I understood, God just wanted me to understand that His former VISION was true, and that the Man of Sin was indeed here. So God called me to Phecy brother, even though as a Preacher I preach on much, my passion and calling is Prophetic Events/End Time Events.

    And I have learned from many, but along the way I have dodged many stray bullets so to speak, been there done that. I can understand of something is of God NOW in 5 minutes usually, 25 years ago it wasn't that easy brother.

    Somethings is wrong,.....yes, this tells us all something....
    It should tell you something also, or anyone that has been a Christian many years..............If you have been a Christian let's say 20 to 30 years and nothing someone talks about agrees with your Spirit, are you telling me that doesn't send up a warning sign ? I mean I have many, many people I disagree with the Rapture on, but then we agree on 75 percent of everything else. I have disagreements on small issues with my Prophecy brothers, but we usually agree on 0-5 percent of thins, after all, we are all led by the SAME Holy Spirit in the end. But there are always a few, even in my Church, who are contrarians by nature I guess, if I said the sky was blue they would say here is really no colors, we just see light through a prism {which is true, LOL}, BUT.......why go to the nth degree on everything ? So if I find someone who disagree with me on "EVERYTHING" it tells me they like to debate, they like the back and forth etc. etc., so when they do agree with you they stay silent, or if you make a post and they agree with 95 percent, they will highlight the 5 percent in every post.

    I was not saying the poster has to always be wrong on everything per se, just that they always seem to dig out the disagreeable points, whereas I usually chose when replying to a post to cover all the issues/points, agreeable or disagreeable, some people are just different I guess, thus they always accentuate the differences. To me that is wrongheaded, we need ti encourage each other where we can. Sometime I disagree with threads so vehemently I just don't even post in them, I don't see the need to be seen as attacking the OP. That's just me I guess, we need to lift each other up where we can, then later on try to teach where we can.

    Then again there are a few I disagree with almost everything on, we both just kinda don't reply to each other. Me and Keras rarely agree on MANY BOARDS, but we just don't reply to each other that much. It is what it is, I still love him as a brother, but us butting heads doesn't really make the boards any better, so we don't do it much.

    God Bless my brother.

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I don't sit here and tell you what I BELIEVE 24/7/365 brother. If I give an opinion, it is my opinion, but the Spirit leads us into all TRUTH, that is what the Holy Spirit does. .
    I would think that the holy spirit would know better than to use a bad English translation of the bible to determine doctrine, but as you say, I am not a Christian. So maybe I'm wrong here.

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    I would think that the holy spirit would know better than to use a bad English translation of the bible to determine doctrine, but as you say, I am not a Christian. So maybe I'm wrong here.
    To those who claim The Holy Spirit somehow favors them with exclusive truth while keeping the truth from the rest of us to is engaging in arrogance.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I agree that yom represents a period of time, and not necessarily a single solar day. Hence, a sunlit day can metaphorically project to mean a period of time, such as a year or an eternity. I don't, however, believe that the time, times and half a time represent the Day of the Lord. The day of the Lord in eschatology is focused on the singular solar day in which Christ returns. Of course, on one side of the earth that will be daytime, while on the other side of the earth that will be night time.

    There may be another sense in eschatology in which yom applies. It may be that the Kingdom Age may be referred to as a "day," as well. It is an era.

    But I really like how you explain the 6 days of creation, with evening and morning represent the beginning and end of an era. Each creation day seems to represent an undefined stage of creative development in which certain things happened. This was the original classification of creation, as revealed by God, beginning with light and ending with man. In between is the preparation of a habitat for man.

    Truly, we need not try to read science into our naďve view of a biblical "day!" We will lose those who have been taught that religion is more myth than fact. Christianity is really all about truth, and about submission to the facts of life.
    Thanks brother, I see I have work to do on The Day of the Lord with you. But I am sure since you see the TIME PERIODS of Creation that you would have to admit that the "Day of the Lord" could likewise be a 3.5 year period. So lets me an you study it in depth in the coming weeks, and in about a month or so maybe we can bump this thread and discuss it. Because I actually have studied the Creation Days far more than I did the DOTL, because the DOTL was much more simple to me than the 7 Days of Creation.

    Something just hit me brother.... .Its kinda funny......since God rested on the 7th Day, that must mean we are still in the 7th Day !! Even though the Universe is still expanding.

    Did you look at the WMAP Map ? If so did you notice there was 400 million years of DARKNESS between the INFLATION and when the first Stars finally formed ?

    Then we get this..............Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. {Do people realize that without WATER there would be no light as we know it ? Notice after we leave our Atmosphere it gets darker, the WATER takes a BEAM of Light and REFLECTS IT !! Now read the verse again and notice below, God then says LET THERE BE LIGHT. Amen. }

    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    So God gives the STATEMENT OF FACT, God created the Heaven and the earth, then He goes about telling the way He created it. This is the just the way they wrote.

    Then in verse 2 God states the earth was VOID Meaning it was not there yet, it was just an ORDER from God, look up VOID it means completely empty. And DARKNESS was on he face of the deep, just like the WMAP map shows us, Darkness was on the face of the deep for 400 million years, THEN, God moved on the FACE of the WATERS. Without Water to reflect the light the earth would not be illuminated as we understand it to be, LIGHT is just a beam, it has to be reflected to illuminate things. Thus our Atmosphere allows light to be reflected, and to a lesser degree in space. Then after the DARKNESS notice the LIGHT was ordered forth, so the WMAP Map is spot on. The Darkness was first and then the STARS came afterwards. It proves the bible right !! Amen. Thus the evening {Darkness} followed by the morning {Light}.

    marty fox
    The very first verse in the bible disagrees with you the universe didn’t start as the size of a grain of sand

    genesis 1:1
    1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
    I answer this ABOVE in this post to RANDYK above also.................As per the grain of sand, that is a reference by me to the intellectual point that if the universe had of had just ONE GRAIN OF SAND more in the Beginning at the Big Bang or ONE GRAIN OF SAND less, the Universe, according to our "Laws of Nature" would not have come into existence or into being, and this points to a CREATOR !! I am giving you the tools to fight the Atheists and to reach the kids, all you have to do is use them. This PROVES fine tuning by God, there is no chance that this could just happen PER CHANCE !! It's just not possible, I will show this later.

    Universe size matters!

    Besides spiritual reasons, there are also physical constraints on the minimum (and maximum) mass of the universe. The universe could not have been much smaller than it is in order for nuclear fusion to have occurred during the first 3 minutes after the Big Bang. Without this brief period of nucleosynthesis, the early universe would have consisted entirely of hydrogen. Without helium (comprising ~24% of the matter in the universe), heavy element production in stars is not possible, so that no rocky planets would have ever existed in the entire history of the universe.

    Likewise, the universe could not have been a much more massive than it is, or life would not have been possible. If the universe were just one part in 10/59 more massive, the universe would have collapsed before life was possible. Since there are only 10/80 baryons in the universe, this means that an addition of just 10/21 baryons (at 1.67x10−27 kg/baryon equals 1.7 mg of matter - equal to a grain of sand) would have made life impossible! The universe is exactly the size it must be for life to exist at all.

    Conclusion

    For both spiritual and physical reasons, the universe must be immense to fulfill the purposes of God, according to the Bible. The large size of the universe tells us about His power and authority, and is required for the formation of rocky planets.

    So the weight of just ONE GRAIN OF SAND either way, is the difference in our Universe existing at all, and Atheists want us to believe we just got her BY CHANCE !! Fat chance. So when an Atheist, or anyone queries you on why the earth is the size it is if God created the Universe, now you can tell them, via our Laws of Nature, it had to be this way !!

    As per the FINE TUNING and the odds of said fine tuning being just PER CHANCE !!

    According to Carl Sagan, the universe (cosmos) "is all that is or ever was or ever will be." However, the idea that the universe is all is not a scientific fact, but an assumption based upon materialistic naturalism. Since Carl Sagan's death in 1996, new discoveries in physics and cosmology bring into questions Sagan's assumption about the universe. Evidence shows that the constants of physics have been finely tuned to a degree not possible through human engineering. Five of the more finely tuned numbers are included in the table below. For comments about what scientists think about these numbers, see the page Quotes from Scientists Regarding Design of the Universe.

    [B]Fine Tuning of the Physical Constants of the Universe

    [/B]Parameter......................................... ...............Max. Deviation
    Ratio of ElectronsrotonS....................................1:1037
    Ratio of Electromagnetic Force:Gravity....................1:1040
    Expansion Rate of Universe...................................1:1055
    Mass Density of Universe .......................................1:1059
    Cosmological Constant.......................................... 1:10120
    These numbers represent the maximum deviation from the accepted values, that would either prevent the universe from existing now, not having matter, or be unsuitable for any form of life.

    Degree of fine tuning


    Recent Studies have confirmed the fine tuning of the cosmological constant (also known as "dark energy"). This cosmological constant is a force that increases with the increasing size of the universe. First hypothesized by Albert Einstein, the cosmological constant was rejected by him, because of lack of real world data. However, recent supernova 1A data demonstrated the existence of a cosmological constant that probably made up for the lack of light and dark matter in the universe. However, the data was tentative, since there was some variability among observations. Recent cosmic microwave background (CMB) measurement not only demonstrate the existence of the cosmological constant, but the value of the constant. It turns out that the value of the cosmological constant exactly makes up for the lack of matter in the universe.

    The degree of fine-tuning is difficult to imagine. Dr. Hugh Ross gives an example of the least fine-tuned of the above four examples in his book, The Creator and the Cosmos, which is reproduced here:

    One part in 10/37 is such an incredibly sensitive balance that it is hard to visualize. The following analogy might help: Cover the entire North American continent in dimes all the way up to the moon, a height of about 239,000 miles (In comparison, the money to pay for the U.S. federal government debt would cover one square mile less than two feet deep with dimes.). Next, pile dimes from here to the moon on a billion other continents the same size as North America. Paint one dime red and mix it into the billions of piles of dimes. Blindfold a friend and ask him to pick out one dime. The odds that he will pick the red dime are one in 1037. (p. 115)

    The ripples in the universe from the original Big Bang event are detectable at one part in 100,000. If this factor were slightly smaller, the universe would exist only as a collection of gas - no planets, no life. If this factor were slightly larger, the universe would consist only of large black holes. Obviously, no life would be possible in such a universe.

    Another finely tuned constant is the strong nuclear force (the force that holds atoms together). The Sun "burns" by fusing hydrogen (and higher elements) together. When the two hydrogen atoms fuse, 0.7% of the mass of the hydrogen is converted into energy. If the amount of matter converted were slightly smaller—0.6% instead of 0.7%— a proton could not bond to a neutron, and the universe would consist only of hydrogen. With no heavy elements, there would be no rocky planets and no life. If the amount of matter converted were slightly larger—0.8%, fusion would happen so readily and rapidly that no hydrogen would have survived from the Big Bang. Again, there would be no solar systems and no life. The number must lie exactly between 0.6% and 0.8% (Martin Rees, Just Six Numbers).


    All of these things point to a God who CREATED us, not to chance. Finding ONE DIME piled from here to the moon, PLUS a billion more earths to the moons piles after one is blindfolded is just not possible. That is what 1 to the power of 10/37 is guys. It means we were Created. It is time we learn these things and use them to in souls, there s ZERO CHANCE that we just came into being per chance. Amen.

  9. #54

    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    My view of what all the phrase "the Day of the Lord" entails (which I've posted before):

    The phrase "the Day of the Lord" covers the time period of all three of the following:

    1) the 7-year tribulation period upon the earth (the "DARK" portion)
    2) Christ's Second Coming [I]to the earth[/UI] (the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" portion)
    3) His 1000-year reign [I]on/over the earth[/U] (the "reign... GLORIOUSLY" portion)

    ...ALL earth-related time period (of long duration).
    [whereas the phrase "the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ" is not on the earth, but when we are "caught up" and are present "with [G4862 - denoting 'UNION' (UNIONED-with) and/or 'IDENTIFICATION' with] the Lord--and so shall we ever be with the Lord]


    The phrase "shall come as a thief IN THE NIGHT" pertains to the afore-mentioned "time period" under part #1 (its ARRIVAL under point #1--the "DARK" portion [i.e. "IN THE NIGHT"] involves "the man of sin" and ALL he will DO over the course of those 7-years (see the following: Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" which is the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]" [of many more "birth PANGS [plural]" that will follow on from there; Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11 (Olivet Discourse)], i.e. the "whose coming/advent/arrival/presence/parousia" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME" [the "DARK"/"IN THE NIGHT"--see also Daniel 7:7 and Genesis 46:2] which is at the START of the 7-year period, involving "the prince THAT SHALL COME" [Dan9:27a(26)--"FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]"] i.e. the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]," aka the rider of the white horse with "a bow" (which often means "DECEPTION") when Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Rev4-5; Isa3:13; Lam2:3-4 (<--which verses seem to parallel precisely 2Th2:7b-8a)] at the time He Himself "STANDS to JUDGE" by opening the "FIRST SEAL" (at the START of the 7-year tribulation period).

  10. #55

    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I don't sit here and tell you what I BELIEVE 24/7/365 brother. If I give an opinion, it is my opinion, but the Spirit leads us into all TRUTH, that is what the Holy Spirit does. You thinking or inferring that I don't know the difference between my beliefs and the unction of the Spirit is kind of strange, I mean I have been preaching for 33 years, and I admit there are some goofballs that have been preaching as long or longer, but I think my posts attest to my Christian walk. But what we believe or surmise should in no way take the place of the Holy Spirit's lead, but I understand the voice of the Holy Spirit just like Paul/Peter and millions of other faithful servants down through the years have. This universe being 13.7 billion years old is a no brainer brother, the facts are the facts, and the Holy Spirit led me to that conclusion. The Day of the Lord is not a one day event either, the Lord led me to that years ago by reading the bible, that is pretty simple stuff there unlike the creation of the universe. Now I had no clue as per to what Babylon and the Harlot was in general for 20-25 years, so I never attested to understand it in full, I would give my opinions and say thus and thus is my opinion, but then when I was given the understanding about three years ago I wrote a blog on what it is via what the Holy Spirit led me to understand, so I understand the voice of the Holy Spirit, I don't just BELIEVE THINGS !! Kinda amused by that one to be honest brother.



    Of course we can, some are feet, some are hands, some are toes etc. I find we have too many people trying to teach prophecy when they are not called unto prophecy, I agree we can learn from each other, but not if a arm is trying t be a leg. I knew what my calling was in the early 80's. But I didn't understand it in full, but later on it got confirmed, and in some strange ways {to me at the time it was strange}, I had a vision where I was running from some evil people, I had 2 small kids with me, I hid behind a bush by a house and all of the sudden this BOOMING VOICE from above said, "The Man of Sin is here", and that was all that was said, not the Anti-Christ in which I might have thought, well there are MANY, but the ONE Man of Sin !! So I thought to myself, OK, that was odd, but like relatively new Christians I kinda discounted what I has seen, it was not something I had ever dealt with. But God has His ways of CONFIRMING His intentions unto us, LOL, that is true. So then I have another vision, and I have never had but like 3 or 4 in my whole life, but this time I was with like maybe 10 other people, in this HUGE ARENA {Maybe 1986} and Jimmy Swaggart was preaching, then within 2 weeks he had fallen from Grace and I was like, Ohhh, I get it, God was showing my this guys mantle had been taken from him {at least for a while} and God had shown me there would be NO CROWDS for him anymore, thus the 10 people in the HUGE ARENA. Then at that moment I understood, God just wanted me to understand that His former VISION was true, and that the Man of Sin was indeed here. So God called me to Phecy brother, even though as a Preacher I preach on much, my passion and calling is Prophetic Events/End Time Events.

    And I have learned from many, but along the way I have dodged many stray bullets so to speak, been there done that. I can understand of something is of God NOW in 5 minutes usually, 25 years ago it wasn't that easy brother.


    It should tell you something also, or anyone that has been a Christian many years..............If you have been a Christian let's say 20 to 30 years and nothing someone talks about agrees with your Spirit, are you telling me that doesn't send up a warning sign ? I mean I have many, many people I disagree with the Rapture on, but then we agree on 75 percent of everything else. I have disagreements on small issues with my Prophecy brothers, but we usually agree on 0-5 percent of thins, after all, we are all led by the SAME Holy Spirit in the end. But there are always a few, even in my Church, who are contrarians by nature I guess, if I said the sky was blue they would say here is really no colors, we just see light through a prism {which is true, LOL}, BUT.......why go to the nth degree on everything ? So if I find someone who disagree with me on "EVERYTHING" it tells me they like to debate, they like the back and forth etc. etc., so when they do agree with you they stay silent, or if you make a post and they agree with 95 percent, they will highlight the 5 percent in every post.

    I was not saying the poster has to always be wrong on everything per se, just that they always seem to dig out the disagreeable points, whereas I usually chose when replying to a post to cover all the issues/points, agreeable or disagreeable, some people are just different I guess, thus they always accentuate the differences. To me that is wrongheaded, we need ti encourage each other where we can. Sometime I disagree with threads so vehemently I just don't even post in them, I don't see the need to be seen as attacking the OP. That's just me I guess, we need to lift each other up where we can, then later on try to teach where we can.

    Then again there are a few I disagree with almost everything on, we both just kinda don't reply to each other. Me and Keras rarely agree on MANY BOARDS, but we just don't reply to each other that much. It is what it is, I still love him as a brother, but us butting heads doesn't really make the boards any better, so we don't do it much.

    God Bless my brother.
    I really like this post of yours. I've been trying to get to this thread to read it because I have no knowledge on the subject in the O.P, but I came to the last page first (that's just the way I do things, it's a bad habit)..

    .. and I still haven't read the thread and its comments.

    I'm concerned to say here what I believe the Holy Spirit has helped me to understand (without me realizing the understanding was going to be given me, because I was not looking at these scriptures or thinking about them, but it came when studying the word lawlessness) regarding the link between Mat. 24:9-14; Mat. 7:21-23; II Thess. 2:3-12, and Rev. 13:11, 13-17.

    I'm not going to state it. I'm going to ask you - specifically - because of what I read you saying - the question:

    Bearing in mind that the Greek word used in Mat.24:

    Is there a link between
    (a) The false prophets in Mat, 24:11 and Mat. 7:21-23: and

    (b)

    And then shall many be offended (Greek: skandalizo), and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. (Matthew 24:10 [KJV])
    [*StrongsGreek*]
    4624 skandalizo skan-dal-id'-zo from 4625; to entrap, i.e. trip up (figuratively, stumble (transitively) or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure):--(make to) offend. see GREEK for 4625

    (b) The falling away in Mat 24:10 (or as the Greek word suggests, stumbling or apostasy) including the time of lawlessness spoken of in Mat.24:12 one one hand, and Mat.7:21-23 + II Thess. 2: 3-12 on the other hand (The Greek word in Mat.24: 12 translated as "iniquity" in some Bibles is the same word meaning "lawlessness" as used in IIThess.2:8 )?

    Both Mat 24:9-14 and IIThess, 2: 3-12 are stated to come about when the gospel has been preached to all nations, and immediately precede the return of Christ.

    There are only two entities which the Revelation states perform miraculous signs n the sight of men: (1) "The beast from the earth (which has two horns like a lamb and yet speaks like a dragon, and which exercises all the authority and power of the first beast); and (2) "the two witnesses".

    It suggests to me that the man of sin and the beast from the earth are one and the same.

    Joseph exercised all the authority and power of Pharaoh before him, and God the Father has placed all His authority and power in the Son.

    This beast that rises from the earth in revelation 13 exercises all the authority and power of the beast from the sea - and Rev 17:13 & 17 tells us that the 10 kings or horns on the beast from the sea, hand over all their power and authority to "the beast", and we are not told "which" beast, however, it does suggest that another entity will exercise all the power and authority of these 10 horns before them.

    I also have this inward sense that THE MAN OF SIN is here, and I think that many who call Jesus "Lord" and do miracles in His name are going to be told by Jesus to depart from Him because they are working lawlessness. I.O.W the inspiration for their works is not the Holy Spirit, and they are also not being restrained from lawless deeds by the Holy Spirit:

    (they are not obeying the Law of Christ written on their hearts by the Holy Spirit, so they are Lawless, even though they call Christ "Lord" and do their miracles in His name).

    There seems to be a connection to the miracles of these false prophets and the man of sin, as well as to the miracles of the beast with two horns like a lamb but which speaks like a dragon, which is to rise from the earth and exercise all the power and authority of the first beast in its presence.

    I'm not trying to or going to give a manifestation for the above prophecies, but I am "watching" the fact that there are some prominent Orthodox Jewish Rabbis, a good few very wealthy and powerful Jewish business leaders, and the chabad/Lubivich movement and Temple Institute who believe that "Messiah" is about to come, demolish the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa mosque, lay the foundation for the 3rd temple (which is going to be rebuilt very fast and in record time), re-institute animal sacrifices for sins.

    They also believe that the United Nations HQ is to be shifted to Jerusalem, and restructured to comprise of 70 nations with seats at the U.N, representing the descendants of the 70 nations which were dispersed from the Tower of Babel, and it will be headed by "Messiah", and the Messianic age prophecies are to be fulfilled, and they repeatedly quote Isaiah 2:2-5:

    " It shall come to pass in the latter days
    that the mountain of the house of the LORD
    shall be established as the highest of the mountains,
    and shall be lifted up above the hills;
    and all the nations shall flow to it,

    and many peoples shall come, and say:
    Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
    to the house of the God of Jacob,
    that he may teach us his ways
    and that we may walk in his paths.
    For out of Zion shall go the law,
    and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

    He shall judge between the nations,
    and shall decide disputes for many peoples;
    and they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
    and their spears into pruning hooks;
    nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
    neither shall they learn war anymore.

    O house of Jacob,
    come, let us walk
    in the light of the LORD."
    (Isaiah 2:2-5 [ESV2001])

    IF any of this comes to pass (notice these are not MY goals but the stated goals and beliefs of many in Israel), and the "U.N 70" appoint or are governed by 10, and these 10 then hand all their authority and power to the beast that rises from the earth, then we have a fulfilment of prophecy - but not the way those people with these goals think it will be fulfilled, because they are those who reject Christ.

    Naturally, any Christian who refuses to worship the image of the beast will be hated of all nations for His name's sake and be killed.

    Temple the Man of sin seats himself in:

    Two Greek words used for temple in Jerusalem up until the death of Christ and verse talking about the tearing of the veil:

    hieron and naos. The word naos is used in the verses where Christ refers to His body as the temple ("Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up).

    The last time the word naos is used for the temple in Jerusalem, is in the verse talking about the tearing of the veil at the time of Christ's death.

    From Acts onward, the only word used for temple in Jerusalem, is hieron.

    naos is used in reference to the church and the bodies of saints as the temple of God.

    noas is also used in the verse stating that the man of sin will set himself up in the temple of God. It's also used in the Revelation's mention of the temple in Revelation 11 - but naos is also used where the reference is clearly a reference to the temple in heaven.

    So the Greek N.T Received text on which the KJV is based, makes a clear distinction as to which "temple" is being referenced after the death of Christ.

    UNLESS the temple the man of sin sets himself up in and the temple spoken of in Revelation 11 are exceptions.

    However, from Acts onwards (and the temple in Jerusalem is mentioned multiple times in Acts), the only Greek word referencing the temple in Jerusalem is hieron and the Greek word referencing the individual bodies of believers and the church as the temple is naos. Therefore it seems unlikely that the reference to the temple that the man of sin sets himself up in, and the reference to the temple in Revelation 11, are exceptions.

    So this leads me to believe that the possibility is very high that the false prophets Christ warned us about, and people working lawlessness who call Jesus Lord and do miracles in His name, and the man of sin who is also the man of lawlessness, and the beast that rises from the earth who has two horns like a lmab and yet speaks like a dragon, all go under the title "Christians" - they all call themselves Christians and at least part of (if not the greatest part of) the "strong delusion" is the fact that all this is said to be of God, and from God.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #56

    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    m'lo goy, I've not heard (or seen) a response from you regarding "why" none of the references speaking of "the Church which is His body" have the definite article ('the') when using the word "temple" (regarding us). Any thoughts on that??

  12. #57

    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    I would think that the holy spirit would know better than to use a bad English translation of the bible to determine doctrine, but as you say, I am not a Christian. So maybe I'm wrong here.
    I think the question posed in the O.P is fair and your own knowledge of Hebrew is a great input, but the Holy Spirit's abilities far surpass the restrictions of bad English translations of Hebrew text.

    Maybe we should all just learn to speak and read Biblical Hebrew for Old Testament reading and Received Text Greek for New Testament reading.

  13. #58

    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    m'lo goy, I've not heard (or seen) a response from you regarding "why" none of the references speaking of "the Church which is His body" have the definite article ('the') when using the word "temple" (regarding us). Any thoughts on that??
    I have answered it now in that thread https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...=1#post3490652

  14. #59
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    Why wouldn’t He? Why couldn’t He? All I am saying is that he could make it instantly if He chose to. It appears from the Genesis narrative, that’s what He did. Don’t forget, He did water to wine in seconds/min, we all know how long it takes to make wine...


    I can never get one of you guys to explain this reasoning brother !! God lives in ALL TIME so as soon as He created the Universe He was living in its finished product in the future, so please explain why God would need to CHANGE the Laws of Nature He created,
    He did not change the laws, he created them. For a time being ( during the actual creation) all “laws of nature” were a moot point. Nothing existed before he created. Once fully created, ( like an engine ) it ran on its own DESIGNED principles, gravity, physics etc...[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

    And you have yet to explain why he would. Let me give an example of what I am talking about.

    Say I am a Carpenter, but unlike all other carpenters I live in the past, present and future all at the same time. So if I commanded a house to come forth, why would I have to change the way a house usually goes together, Foundation first, shingles later, then the interior afterwards, just to hurry it up ? I am already living in the future and I am pleased with my FINISHED PRODUCT !! The Foundation going in last would just make no sense, it has to be first, but the real problem is this, there is NO REASON for me to hurry up the project if I am already living in the finished results. So no one can ever give me a reason God would feel the NEED to HURRY UP the Creation, He Created this universe with a unique set of CONSTANTS !! God is orderly.

    You are reaching here brother, all because of the word "DAY/YOWM" God must have done it this way, it makes zero sense as per the Constants brother. The Earth's Crust took millions of year to cool enough to allow vegetation to grow. God lives in ALL TIME, he was in no hurry, and we were NOT HERE !! Why change the Laws of Nature ? WHY ?

    And man does not need to slow God down
    That sounds like a point made in desperation. God lives in ALL TIME AT ONCE. There thus is no time with God thus you can't slow Him down or speed him up !!

    See above. These laws first needed to be created. Once established, they run.
    And I know the CONSTANTS, the Laws of Nature prove God Exists, ever hear of a Christian Scientist named Gerald Schroeder ? Google his video on YOUTUBE its called "Believe in God in 5 Minutes (Scientific Proof)" He is a scientist with over thirty years of experience in research and teaching. He earned his Bachelor's, Master's, and Doctorate degrees all at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, with his doctorate thesis being under the supervision of physics professor Robley D. Evans.

    The Laws of Nature {Set of Forces} Created the Universe. Scientists now say, see, we see Quantum Fluctuations {Laws if Nature} outside of the Universe via the WMAP Map. What Mr. Schroeder says they don't understand is this, some do, but most don't. The Forces that Created the Universe are the exact likeness as per the God of the Bible.

    Set of Forces {Quantum Fluctuations/Laws of Nature}
    1.) Not Physical
    2.) Acts on the Physical
    3.) Created the Physical from nothing
    4.) Predates the Universe

    Now what does that sound like to you ? That sounds like the Biblical Definition of God.

    1.) God is not Physical, he's a Spirit and must be worshiped in like manner !!
    2.) God said "Let there be Light" and thus He acted
    3.) God Created our Physical Universe from nothing !!
    4.) God is Eternal

    God created the universe, and the Laws of Nature ACT according to His will, thus they don't change brother !!

    So goes the assumption, proof is actually not there.
    We have proof of 300 million year old Dino bones, we have light coming from stars that are no longer in existence, but we still see their light, we are millions of light years away, God doesn't change the Constants.

    Agree brother!
    And that is why He doesn't need to change the Laws of Nature.

    Not really. Explain?
    Yes, why does God need to change His laws of nature when he lives in the future already.

    See above

    And by the way, the Universe is still forming. The Universe did come from something the size of a grain of sand. The Universe had to be the exact size it os or it couldn't be here according to our Laws of Nature. The ones God designed. As soon as God created the Universe, he was living in the finished product !! He's living in the future where we are all in Heaven now, God can do that.

    Agree, nicely said.
    In a post above I go into more depth on this, a teaching of Richard Deem, a great Christian man of science.

    He didn’t, they were just not created until they were fully created, and therefore would not exist. They now govern our physical world, of which, God can and does “break into” at any given moment. Yes?





    The Answer is He didn't change the Laws of this Universe to Crate this Universe.
    [/QUOTE]

    The REAL ANSWER is brother, YOWM means a period of time, we have to figure out what that timeframe is, 4000 years ago, or whenever Genesis was wrote, God just gave thm YOWM, a timeframe.........in these last days we have the technology to understand, KNOWLEDGE HAS INCREASED !! Amen.

  15. #60
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I focused on one verse as this was the verse Fenris highlighted and wanted to get to grips with.

    The word used was not "yowm" but as he noted the plural "yame" which means days.
    Now to say "as continue days ..." can be rephrased as "while (time) remains..." however one is a LITERAL translation, the other is NOT.

    It is in fact a BAD translation here because the focus is put on the earth remaining when it should be that time measured in days, day by day then things will continue on the earth.

    If you do word studies in Greek and Hebrew then I wonder who helps you.

    A day can be used as a metaphor, but the usage in certain places is DISTINCTLY and PRECISELY about a day which is made of an evening and a morning.
    Now how you want to reinterpret that CLEAR usage, such as you have it as a story, is up to you, but that doesn't change the meaning being used in the passage. Here the ACTUAL meaning in Genesis 1 is for a 2 section day of evening and morning.
    THINK HERE Sister.....I posted a bunch of verses that point out the fact that YOWM is used for a period of time in many instances. I didn't go through each verse with a fine tooth comb, there are bad translations throughout the bible, but the GIST OF MY POINT REMAINS !! That was my point.

    YOWM is used over and over as a period of time, and one must then figure out by the clues what period of time is being spoken about, thus if I gave 15 verses to make a point, then someone says, THIS VERSE doesn't work that well. My thinking is like SO......... it in NO WISE changes the overall point I was making !! The other 14 verses still make the overall point valid. I didn't break down each verse in this quick word search/verse search. The point however is made, YOWM means a lot of different time periods, even if that verse should be translated Hound Dog or Rock. ONE VERSE never makes scriptures to me, it is "Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little".

    The Universe is 13.7 Billion years old, it is what it is. People can disagree, but try mentioning the whole body of work, not one verse, it's never about one verse with me anyway.

    God Bless.

    P.S. I don't take advice from these Hebrew Root type guys. Nothing personal, but they are in most cases coming forth to sow confusion, I don't know this guy, but I have yet to be able to speak about anything Christian/Jesus with him without getting rebuffed towards the way that a Law Abiding Jew should think. I am free from the Law, Amen.

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