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Thread: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

  1. #61
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Need I remind you Paul was a Pharisee, and remained a Pharisee after his submission to Jesus?
    Nicodemus, I said he might have understood. Paul accepted Jesus.

    You will see no one that is more pro Jewish than me. But right now he's blind. When the Church is Raptured, then 1/3 of the Jews will accept Christ as their Savior {Zech. 13:8-9}, they will Flee Judea to Petra where God protects them, then Jesus will RETURN and offer them the Kingdom once again, and he will Rule from Jerusalem. The Jews brought us God, I love all the Jews, but I am not going to take advice from a person who has no unction of the Holy Spirit. Paul had the Holy Spirit, the other Pharisees didn't, that is a huge difference.

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by m'lo goy View Post

    Maybe we should all just learn to speak and read Biblical Hebrew for Old Testament reading and Received Text Greek for New Testament reading.
    Ummm...the guy that does have that knowledge already posted and the OP said he didn't want to "talk" to him because he isn't a Christian and you pretty much did the same thing. So what difference would it make?
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    [FONT="]The meaning of the word YOWM (Day in most instances) is not always day as many assume. Even when day is used, it sometimes doesn't really mean a day, but the English translators seems to have thought it did. The word YOWM can mean many types of periods of time, not just day, it can mean year, month, a period of time etc. etc. We have to figure out the context and insert the actual proper time period as called for. The Hebrew only had like 4000 words (8000 later on), whilst the English has 500,000 words today.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]Let's do a Word Study of YOWM and try to contemplate why the word Day is used in Day of the Lord and in the 7 Days of Creation.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]#3117 יוֹם yowm {yome}[/FONT]
    [FONT="]from an unused root meaning TO BE HOT; TWOT - 852; n m
    —Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

    1) day, time, year
    1a) day (as opposed to night)
    1b) day (24 hour period)
    1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
    1b2) AS A DIVISION OF TIME
    1b2a) a working day, a day's journey
    1c) days, lifetime (pl.)
    1d) TIME, PERIOD (general)
    1e) year
    1f) temporal references
    1f1) today
    1f2) yesterday
    1f3) tomorrow
    —Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

    From an unused root meaning TO BE HOT; a day (as the WARM HOURS), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a SPACE OF TIME defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially):—age, + ALWAYS, + CHRONICLES, CONTINUALLY (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X FULL, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X REQUIRED, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.
    —Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

    #3117.
    יוֹם
    yom (398a); a prim. root; day:—

    NASB - afternoon*(1), age(8), age*(1), all(1), always*(14), amount*(2), battle(1), birthday*(1), Chronicles*(38), completely*(1), continually*(14), course*(1), daily(22), daily the days(1), day(1115), day of the days(1), day that the period(1), day's(6), day's every day(1), daylight*(1), days(635), days on the day(1), days to day(1), days you shall daily(1), days ago(1), days'(11), each(1), each day(4), entire(2), eternity(1), evening*(1), ever in your life*(1), every day(2), fate(1), first(5), forever*(11), forevermore*(1), full(5), full year(1), future*(1), holiday*(3), later*(2), length(1), life(12), life*(1), lifetime(2), lifetime*(1), live(1), long(2), long as i live(1), long*(11), midday*(1), now(5), older*(1), once(2), period(3), perpetually*(2), present(1), recently(1), reigns(1), ripe*(1), short-lived*(1), so long*(1), some time(1), survived*(2), time(45), time*(1), times*(2), today(172), today*(1), usual(1), very old*(1), when(10), when the days(1), whenever(1), while(3), whole(2), year(10), yearly(5), years(13), yesterday*(1).
    —NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries

    AV - day 2008, time 64, chronicles + H1697 37, daily 32, ever 17,
    year 14, continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full 8 always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc 44; 2274[/FONT]

    [FONT="]------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Some examples where this word is used in a different way BELOW: Notice it's always used as a PERIOD OF TIME of some sort.[/FONT]

    [FONT="]2 Kings 17:37 And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore(YOWM); and ye shall not fear other gods.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]Genesis 4:3 And in process of time(YOWM) it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting(YOWM).[/FONT]
    [FONT="]Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year(YOWM).[/FONT]
    [FONT="]Exodus 13:10 Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year(YOWM).[/FONT]
    [FONT="]Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth(YOWM), seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]Genesis 40:4 And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season(YOWM) in ward.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]Joshua 24:7 And when they cried unto the Lord, he put darkness between you and the Egyptians, and brought the sea upon them, and covered them; and your eyes have seen what I have done in Egypt: and ye dwelt in the wilderness a long season(YOWM).[/FONT]
    [FONT="]1 Kings 9:3 And the Lord said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually(YOWM).[/FONT]
    [FONT="]Genesis 29:14 And Laban said to him, Surely thou art my bone and my flesh. And he abode with him the space(YOWM) of a month.

    Leviticus 26:34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long(YOWM) as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.[/FONT]

    [FONT="]Deuteronomy 28:29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore(YOWM), and no man shall save thee.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always(YOWM), that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever![/FONT]
    [FONT="]Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually(YOWM).[/FONT]
    [FONT="]Genesis 41:1 And it came to pass at the end of two full (YOWM) years, that Pharaoh dreamed: and, behold, he stood by the river.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]I could go on and on, but I think this shows enough variation and enough instances, which shows us that the Hebrew word YOWM is used for a PERIOD OF TIME in many sort of ways. Of course it is going to be used for a day more than any other word because God is going to use "SPECIFIC MENTIONS OF DAYS" more than any other period of time. Whenever a Prophet says that there will be so and so many days of this or that, he would of course use the word YOWM. But when it was meant as EVERMORE he also used the word YOWM, and when it meant as a YEAR the Prophets would have also used the word YOWM, and when Yowm was used for any set "Period of time" it was also used, etc. etc. We just have to figure out the "Timeframe".[/FONT]
    [FONT="]So God, via His Prophets, uses the word YOWM and it's up to us to eventually figure out what "PERIOD OF TIME" He (God) meant when the word Yowm was used in each instance !! The Hebrew language had 4000 words and no vowels at the time, it was a primitive language of course. We shouldn't allow the professors of that time (Pharisees, Scribes) or the English translators to sway us into saying this has to mean ONE DAY, it was a period of time and it's up to us to figure out what the period of time was in the end. All men knew back then, comparatively speaking, was that we had days, years and months. So they had to see it as something, what was it going to be ? A Day, a Year, a Month, Evermore, Perpetually, Full, Forever and Always, X Required, Space of time etc. etc. They sure didn't have a clue about how big the universe actually is like we do, they had no concept of billions of years like we do either.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]The "Day of the Lord" just like the "Creation Days" in Genesis 1 is a complete misunderstanding of the passages. We are supposed to insert the PROPER TIME PERIOD in each instance where YOWM is used. Yowm only means an in general period of time, it's like an X, Y or Z proposition, we must use factoids to understand what the actual PERIOD OF TIME actually is !! Then we choose X, Y or Z and insert it. So where God's Prophets speak of the "YOWM of the Lord" it means the "Time Period of God's Wrath", and the clues, in every instance, tells us that it is a 3.5 year period of time. Just like the clues tell us the Universe was created in a 13.7 Billion year time period. We had six periods of creation, then God rested from his Creation.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]So God created the Universe in a period of 7 YOWMS, which as shown above means periods of time in various ways. We have to figure these things out, we can't allow the dog to lead us here, we have to lead the dog. We can't allow the word DAY (YOWM) to force us to look at things in ways in which it drives people away from the Gospel. We want to understand the facts, therefore we can reach people via truths. I have seen many young people tell me things like, hey, anyone that thinks the universe is 6000 years old, I don't want to hear about your God man, you live in la la land. But when I speak in terms of knowledge/facts, they listen and say to me, "Mmmm so you believe in Evolution", and I then say why would you think that ? God created the Universe over a 13.7 billion year period, as he so desired ? (I get an OPENING) It makes them think, OK.....It opens a door to gain them via what I see as the actual facts, God did indeed create the Universe via a 13.7 Billion year time period. But if we say the Universe is 6000 years old we have no hope to reach them my brothers and sisters, none at all. And that is my/our job, that is of course why I researched this long ago, and wrote a blog on the 13.7 Billion years it took God to create the Universe and mankind. I hated Science in school, but it's my job to reach the masses with truths, so I dug in. [/FONT]
    [FONT="]Morning and Evening mean Beginning and Ending of a day, or of a period of time.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]As per the Day of the Lord, that is the Day God's Wrath starts on, but the Day of the LORD lasts 3.5 years does it not ?[/FONT]
    [FONT="]I hope the above helped explain my positions somewhat and opens people up to seeing another point of view here. YOWM is always inserted for a PERIOD OF TIME, it's up to us to understand what that period of time means in each instance. We have allowed this Hebrew word Yowm, to become associated with the word Day, even when that isn't what it means, then many people insist, how day you change the meaning of God !! When that is exactly what the translators have done themselves. Now in many instances, when the Hebrew scribes and learned men of their day didn't understand, they also inserted the word Day, knowing that each event must at least start on a day, just like the Day of the Lord has to start on a day, they couldn't say the exact time frame at that point in time. We now know via the book of Revelation that its a 3.5 year period of God's Wrath. We see it diagrammed in the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments !![/FONT]
    [FONT="]So when you see the DAY OF THE LORD, just remember, we inserted the word Day, God wrote YOWM and it is up to us to understand what "Period of Time" is meant in each case by God and His Prophets. We have to study it in depth. And when we do, we see that all of the things which must happen on "THE DAY" of the Lord can't possible happen in ONE DAY, it's just not possible, all of the incidents that take place look exactly like the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments all combined into ONE EVENT !! Thus it is all considered "The Day of the Lord".[/FONT]
    So when one sees a reference to the Day of the Lord, just remember, the Hebrew in Zephaniah and Joel would say "the YOWM (insert time period) of the Lord is upon you" or the 3.5 years (YOWM) of God's Wrath is upon you.
    Doesn't it refer to both "Days of the LORD" as well as the Day of the LORD? What I mean is, there must obviously be days of time during which the 7 last plagues are being poured out upon the world in God's wrath, but the final DAY is the final DAY.

    As in the days of Noah: He was told to enter the ark 7 days before the flood came upon the earth. But the day the flood came was THE DAY.

    Judgment might begin before THE DAY but the plagues of wrath are also called "The Day of the LORD"?

    Also, as far as I know, any day in which God's judgment came, was "the Day of the LORD", as when Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and the temple - but there is a final "Day of the LORD".

    So I guess what I'm saying is the Day of the LORD includes the days leading up to THE DAY - but the final DAY is "the" Day of the LORD.

  4. #64

    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    So when you see the DAY OF THE LORD, just remember, we inserted the word Day, whereas God's Prophets wrote YOWM and it is up to us to understand what "Period of Time" is meant in each case by God and His Prophets. We have to study it in depth. And when we do, we see that all of the things which must happen on "THE DAY" of the Lord can't possible happen in ONE DAY, it's just not possible, all of the incidents that take place look exactly like the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments all combined into ONE EVENT !! Thus it is all considered "The Day of the Lord".
    Pretty much, yes.

    Recall the Thessalonians were being corrected by Paul, who was basically telling them NOT to believe anyone trying to convince them that "the day of the Lord IS PRESENT" (this was easy for them to BELIEVE and be CONVINCED of, because of their PRESENT and ONGOING, NEGATIVE experiences they were ENDURING, per 2Th1:4 etc). He's telling them "WHY" it is NOT PRESENT. ONE THING must happen "FIRST" (AND also the man of sin "be revealed"--this SEQUENCE is stated 3x in the passage, and also agrees with the stated SEQUENCE in 1Th4 - 5; which, by the way, is the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE to that of the "2nd Coming [to the earth]/Matthew 13" passages, when the angels will "REAP").

    Wherever the phrases "the DOTL" and "IN THAT DAY" are used in the same context [even in OT], it refers to SAME "time period"... in the afore-mentioned portion #1 [from my previous post] (i.e. 7-year tribulation period), and such is the case in 2Th1 & 2 (where these two phrases are mentioned ["the DOTL" and "IN THAT DAY"], and two differing/opposite responses [within that (future) time period] are contrasted). TWO DIFFERING responses (of people within the future trib years) are contrasted in these 2 Chpts (2Th1&2):

    --people will either come to believe that which was TRUE ("the testimony of us to you" 2Th1:10b), OR

    --people who will have "not received the love of the truth" will believe and embrace "the pseudei / the FALSE" INSTEAD (2Th2:10-12)


    This gives evidence that it is not merely a singular 24-hr day, but a "time period" of some duration (which, examining all other factors, reveals what all it encompasses).

  5. #65

    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by m'lo goy View Post
    I have answered it now in that thread
    Thanks. I'll take a look.

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Thanks brother, I see I have work to do on The Day of the Lord with you. But I am sure since you see the TIME PERIODS of Creation that you would have to admit that the "Day of the Lord" could likewise be a 3.5 year period. So lets me an you study it in depth in the coming weeks, and in about a month or so maybe we can bump this thread and discuss it. Because I actually have studied the Creation Days far more than I did the DOTL, because the DOTL was much more simple to me than the 7 Days of Creation.

    Something just hit me brother.... .Its kinda funny......since God rested on the 7th Day, that must mean we are still in the 7th Day !! Even though the Universe is still expanding.

    Did you look at the WMAP Map ? If so did you notice there was 400 million years of DARKNESS between the INFLATION and when the first Stars finally formed ?

    Then we get this..............Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. {Do people realize that without WATER there would be no light as we know it ? Notice after we leave our Atmosphere it gets darker, the WATER takes a BEAM of Light and REFLECTS IT !! Now read the verse again and notice below, God then says LET THERE BE LIGHT. Amen. }

    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    So God gives the STATEMENT OF FACT, God created the Heaven and the earth, then He goes about telling the way He created it. This is the just the way they wrote.

    Then in verse 2 God states the earth was VOID Meaning it was not there yet, it was just an ORDER from God, look up VOID it means completely empty. And DARKNESS was on he face of the deep, just like the WMAP map shows us, Darkness was on the face of the deep for 400 million years, THEN, God moved on the FACE of the WATERS. Without Water to reflect the light the earth would not be illuminated as we understand it to be, LIGHT is just a beam, it has to be reflected to illuminate things. Thus our Atmosphere allows light to be reflected, and to a lesser degree in space. Then after the DARKNESS notice the LIGHT was ordered forth, so the WMAP Map is spot on. The Darkness was first and then the STARS came afterwards. It proves the bible right !! Amen. Thus the evening {Darkness} followed by the morning {Light}.



    I answer this ABOVE in this post to RANDYK above also.................As per the grain of sand, that is a reference by me to the intellectual point that if the universe had of had just ONE GRAIN OF SAND more in the Beginning at the Big Bang or ONE GRAIN OF SAND less, the Universe, according to our "Laws of Nature" would not have come into existence or into being, and this points to a CREATOR !! I am giving you the tools to fight the Atheists and to reach the kids, all you have to do is use them. This PROVES fine tuning by God, there is no chance that this could just happen PER CHANCE !! It's just not possible, I will show this later.

    Universe size matters!

    Besides spiritual reasons, there are also physical constraints on the minimum (and maximum) mass of the universe. The universe could not have been much smaller than it is in order for nuclear fusion to have occurred during the first 3 minutes after the Big Bang. Without this brief period of nucleosynthesis, the early universe would have consisted entirely of hydrogen. Without helium (comprising ~24% of the matter in the universe), heavy element production in stars is not possible, so that no rocky planets would have ever existed in the entire history of the universe.

    Likewise, the universe could not have been a much more massive than it is, or life would not have been possible. If the universe were just one part in 10/59 more massive, the universe would have collapsed before life was possible. Since there are only 10/80 baryons in the universe, this means that an addition of just 10/21 baryons (at 1.67x10−27 kg/baryon equals 1.7 mg of matter - equal to a grain of sand) would have made life impossible! The universe is exactly the size it must be for life to exist at all.

    Conclusion

    For both spiritual and physical reasons, the universe must be immense to fulfill the purposes of God, according to the Bible. The large size of the universe tells us about His power and authority, and is required for the formation of rocky planets.

    So the weight of just ONE GRAIN OF SAND either way, is the difference in our Universe existing at all, and Atheists want us to believe we just got her BY CHANCE !! Fat chance. So when an Atheist, or anyone queries you on why the earth is the size it is if God created the Universe, now you can tell them, via our Laws of Nature, it had to be this way !!

    As per the FINE TUNING and the odds of said fine tuning being just PER CHANCE !!

    According to Carl Sagan, the universe (cosmos) "is all that is or ever was or ever will be." However, the idea that the universe is all is not a scientific fact, but an assumption based upon materialistic naturalism. Since Carl Sagan's death in 1996, new discoveries in physics and cosmology bring into questions Sagan's assumption about the universe. Evidence shows that the constants of physics have been finely tuned to a degree not possible through human engineering. Five of the more finely tuned numbers are included in the table below. For comments about what scientists think about these numbers, see the page Quotes from Scientists Regarding Design of the Universe.

    [B]Fine Tuning of the Physical Constants of the Universe

    [/B]Parameter......................................... ...............Max. Deviation
    Ratio of ElectronsrotonS....................................1:1037
    Ratio of Electromagnetic Force:Gravity....................1:1040
    Expansion Rate of Universe...................................1:1055
    Mass Density of Universe .......................................1:1059
    Cosmological Constant.......................................... 1:10120
    These numbers represent the maximum deviation from the accepted values, that would either prevent the universe from existing now, not having matter, or be unsuitable for any form of life.

    Degree of fine tuning


    Recent Studies have confirmed the fine tuning of the cosmological constant (also known as "dark energy"). This cosmological constant is a force that increases with the increasing size of the universe. First hypothesized by Albert Einstein, the cosmological constant was rejected by him, because of lack of real world data. However, recent supernova 1A data demonstrated the existence of a cosmological constant that probably made up for the lack of light and dark matter in the universe. However, the data was tentative, since there was some variability among observations. Recent cosmic microwave background (CMB) measurement not only demonstrate the existence of the cosmological constant, but the value of the constant. It turns out that the value of the cosmological constant exactly makes up for the lack of matter in the universe.

    The degree of fine-tuning is difficult to imagine. Dr. Hugh Ross gives an example of the least fine-tuned of the above four examples in his book, The Creator and the Cosmos, which is reproduced here:

    One part in 10/37 is such an incredibly sensitive balance that it is hard to visualize. The following analogy might help: Cover the entire North American continent in dimes all the way up to the moon, a height of about 239,000 miles (In comparison, the money to pay for the U.S. federal government debt would cover one square mile less than two feet deep with dimes.). Next, pile dimes from here to the moon on a billion other continents the same size as North America. Paint one dime red and mix it into the billions of piles of dimes. Blindfold a friend and ask him to pick out one dime. The odds that he will pick the red dime are one in 1037. (p. 115)

    The ripples in the universe from the original Big Bang event are detectable at one part in 100,000. If this factor were slightly smaller, the universe would exist only as a collection of gas - no planets, no life. If this factor were slightly larger, the universe would consist only of large black holes. Obviously, no life would be possible in such a universe.

    Another finely tuned constant is the strong nuclear force (the force that holds atoms together). The Sun "burns" by fusing hydrogen (and higher elements) together. When the two hydrogen atoms fuse, 0.7% of the mass of the hydrogen is converted into energy. If the amount of matter converted were slightly smaller—0.6% instead of 0.7%— a proton could not bond to a neutron, and the universe would consist only of hydrogen. With no heavy elements, there would be no rocky planets and no life. If the amount of matter converted were slightly larger—0.8%, fusion would happen so readily and rapidly that no hydrogen would have survived from the Big Bang. Again, there would be no solar systems and no life. The number must lie exactly between 0.6% and 0.8% (Martin Rees, Just Six Numbers).


    All of these things point to a God who CREATED us, not to chance. Finding ONE DIME piled from here to the moon, PLUS a billion more earths to the moons piles after one is blindfolded is just not possible. That is what 1 to the power of 10/37 is guys. It means we were Created. It is time we learn these things and use them to in souls, there s ZERO CHANCE that we just came into being per chance. Amen.
    A good way to prove instant creation is that three things had to be created at the same instant as you can’t have one without the other two

    Time
    Space
    Matter

    If matter is created as in a rock you have to also have space foe a place for it to be in. Then it would also demand a time for it to take place. The bible describes all three talking place in the first verse

    Genesis 1:1
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    In the beginning-time-God created the heavens-space-and the earth-matter

    God of course is the one who did it

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Ummm...the guy that does have that knowledge already posted and the OP said he didn't want to "talk" to him because he isn't a Christian and you pretty much did the same thing. So what difference would it make?
    Well I will talk to him or anyone, about the Lord. But I don't need someone who has no unction of the Holy Spirit trying t correct me about things of God. I mean, I was honest with him. I will never heed a man about things of God who knows not God. I don't feel the need to debate his beliefs, if he wants to understand about Christ we can chat, but I am not going to debate the Law, we are all condemned by the Law, the Law was given to Moses 100's of years after the PROMISE was given to Abraham, so the PROMISE was the Original Covenant, not the Law.

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    A good way to prove instant creation is that three things had to be created at the same instant as you can’t have one without the other two

    Time
    Space
    Matter

    If matter is created as in a rock you have to also have space foe a place for it to be in. Then it would also demand a time for it to take place. The bible describes all three talking place in the first verse

    Genesis 1:1
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    In the beginning-time-God created the heavens-space-and the earth-matter

    God of course is the one who did it
    The first verse is an OVERVIEW. Followed by the details.

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    My view of what all the phrase "the Day of the Lord" entails (which I've posted before):

    The phrase "the Day of the Lord" covers the time period of all three of the following:

    1) the 7-year tribulation period upon the earth (the "DARK" portion)
    2) Christ's Second Coming [I]to the earth[/UI] (the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" portion)
    3) His 1000-year reign [I]on/over the earth[/U] (the "reign... GLORIOUSLY" portion)

    ...ALL earth-related time period (of long duration).
    [whereas the phrase "the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ" is not on the earth, but when we are "caught up" and are present "with [G4862 - denoting 'UNION' (UNIONED-with) and/or 'IDENTIFICATION' with] the Lord--and so shall we ever be with the Lord]


    The phrase "shall come as a thief IN THE NIGHT" pertains to the afore-mentioned "time period" under part #1 (its ARRIVAL under point #1--the "DARK" portion [i.e. "IN THE NIGHT"] involves "the man of sin" and ALL he will DO over the course of those 7-years (see the following: Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" which is the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]" [of many more "birth PANGS [plural]" that will follow on from there; Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11 (Olivet Discourse)], i.e. the "whose coming/advent/arrival/presence/parousia" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME" [the "DARK"/"IN THE NIGHT"--see also Daniel 7:7 and Genesis 46:2] which is at the START of the 7-year period, involving "the prince THAT SHALL COME" [Dan9:27a(26)--"FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]"] i.e. the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]," aka the rider of the white horse with "a bow" (which often means "DECEPTION") when Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Rev4-5; Isa3:13; Lam2:3-4 (<--which verses seem to parallel precisely 2Th2:7b-8a)] at the time He Himself "STANDS to JUDGE" by opening the "FIRST SEAL" (at the START of the 7-year tribulation period).
    It could be two different Day of the Lords, one might be all about the Wrath of God and the other might be the 1000 year reign. I heaven dug down deep like I have on creation. I will, but what we know for sure is it's not ONE DAY, nor can it be. But, it could be like the YOWM time periods of Creation, where we get 7 different YOWM'S, this we could have a Yowm/DAY of the Lord's Wrath that lasts until the Day of the Lords 1000 year reign !! This just came to me when read your post. I will have to dig down and do a deep dive. LOL, I do this stuff for 20 hours at a time..........I am still like a kid with his first baseball and glove !!

    Good thoughts here brother.

  10. #70
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by m'lo goy View Post
    I really like this post of yours. I've been trying to get to this thread to read it because I have no knowledge on the subject in the O.P, but I came to the last page first (that's just the way I do things, it's a bad habit)..

    .. and I still haven't read the thread and its comments.

    I'm concerned to say here what I believe the Holy Spirit has helped me to understand (without me realizing the understanding was going to be given me, because I was not looking at these scriptures or thinking about them, but it came when studying the word lawlessness) regarding the link between Mat. 24:9-14; Mat. 7:21-23; II Thess. 2:3-12, and Rev. 13:11, 13-17.

    I'm not going to state it. I'm going to ask you - specifically - because of what I read you saying - the question:

    Bearing in mind that the Greek word used in Mat.24:

    Is there a link between
    (a) The false prophets in Mat, 24:11 and Mat. 7:21-23: and

    (b)

    And then shall many be offended (Greek: skandalizo), and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. (Matthew 24:10 [KJV])
    [*StrongsGreek*]
    4624 skandalizo skan-dal-id'-zo from 4625; to entrap, i.e. trip up (figuratively, stumble (transitively) or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure):--(make to) offend. see GREEK for 4625

    (b) The falling away in Mat 24:10 (or as the Greek word suggests, stumbling or apostasy) including the time of lawlessness spoken of in Mat.24:12 one one hand, and Mat.7:21-23 + II Thess. 2: 3-12 on the other hand (The Greek word in Mat.24: 12 translated as "iniquity" in some Bibles is the same word meaning "lawlessness" as used in IIThess.2:8 )?

    Both Mat 24:9-14 and IIThess, 2: 3-12 are stated to come about when the gospel has been preached to all nations, and immediately precede the return of Christ.
    In Matthew 7:21-23, it's about people who live their life telling the truth about Jesus, even performing Miracles in Jesus name in that those that HEAR can be healed by the initiated FAITH of the Word of God/the name of Jesus. But of those people love SIN/this World, then the love of God is not in them. We must hate this world and sin, else we are one of the 5 Virgins of the end time who are locked out of the wedding. BUT....Its not the same as the Matt. 24:7-11 false prophets {false teachers teaching false doctrine} or the Matt. 24:24 FALSE PROPHET who will be a Jewish High Priest like unto Jason, who bribed Antiochus to get the High Priest job, which his brother Onias III, a pious man, had, Antiochus had Onias III killed. Then Jason {real name Yeshua} tried to Hellenize the Jews and thus we got the Maccabean Revolt. Thus I think that we not only had a Likeness of the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in Antiochus, we also had a likeness of his FALSE PROPHET in Jason !! The reason Daniel {Gabriel} never got this understanding but John did is pretty clear once we think about it. If Daniel had been told there was this coming EVIL, False Prophet/High Priest, every other High Priest down through the ages would have been killed by paranoid kings. Like Herod tried to slay all the babies under 2 years old to kill Jesus !! But John was given it, the Jews didn't believe John anyway, he ran with Jesus, plus 70 AD was going t see the Jews dispersed anyway.

    So they are different............and Matt. 24:24 is the actual END TIME Beasts, one is a Beast over Governments, the other will replace the Harlot. He will Beast over Religion worldwide. He demands all people worship the Beast.

    It suggests to me that the man of sin and the beast from the earth are one and the same.

    Joseph exercised all the authority and power of Pharaoh before him, and God the Father has placed all His authority and power in the Son.

    This beast that rises from the earth in revelation 13 exercises all the authority and power of the beast from the sea - and Rev 17:13 & 17 tells us that the 10 kings or horns on the beast from the sea, hand over all their power and authority to "the beast", and we are not told "which" beast, however, it does suggest that another entity will exercise all the power and authority of these 10 horns before them.

    I also have this inward sense that THE MAN OF SIN is here, and I think that many who call Jesus "Lord" and do miracles in His name are going to be told by Jesus to depart from Him because they are working lawlessness. I.O.W the inspiration for their works is not the Holy Spirit, and they are also not being restrained from lawless deeds by the Holy Spirit:

    (they are not obeying the Law of Christ written on their hearts by the Holy Spirit, so they are Lawless, even though they call Christ "Lord" and do their miracles in His name).

    There seems to be a connection to the miracles of these false prophets and the man of sin, as well as to the miracles of the beast with two horns like a lamb but which speaks like a dragon, which is to rise from the earth and exercise all the power and authority of the first beast in its presence.

    I'm not trying to or going to give a manifestation for the above prophecies, but I am "watching" the fact that there are some prominent Orthodox Jewish Rabbis, a good few very wealthy and powerful Jewish business leaders, and the chabad/Lubivich movement and Temple Institute who believe that "Messiah" is about to come, demolish the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa mosque, lay the foundation for the 3rd temple (which is going to be rebuilt very fast and in record time), re-institute animal sacrifices for sins.

    They also believe that the United Nations HQ is to be shifted to Jerusalem, and restructured to comprise of 70 nations with seats at the U.N, representing the descendants of the 70 nations which were dispersed from the Tower of Babel, and it will be headed by "Messiah", and the Messianic age prophecies are to be fulfilled, and they repeatedly quote Isaiah 2:2-5:
    The Two Beasts are DIFFERENT.

    The Rev. 12, 13 and 17 Beasts are each different entities. We can tell via the CROWNS or lack thereof.

    Rev. 12 is Satan the Red Dragon {7 Crowns on 7 Heads}. Rev. 13 is the Man of Sin {10 Crowns on 10 Horns}. And in Rev. 17 we see the Scarlet Colored Beast who is Apollyon, who is in the bottomless pit as we speak, thus HE WAS.............IS NOT............YET IS. He has NO CROWNS, he is not a King of this World and is not over Satan of course, so he has NO CROWNS at all. He was placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region, thus he is OF THE 7 but is an 8th. He was the Prince of Persia who resisted Michael in Dan. ch. 10 for 21 days. He was over the Region in the Spirit world, he is what Ephesian 6:12 calls a Ruler of Darkness. He was then placed in the Pit by God, and thus he IS NOT but he YET IS in that he will be released at the 1st Woe. He then kills the Two-witnesses.

    Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    I wouldn't worry about the Tribulation Period, the Church will be Raptured to Heaven before that stats brother. God Bless.

  11. #71
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Well I will talk to him or anyone, about the Lord. But I don't need someone who has no unction of the Holy Spirit trying t correct me about things of God. I mean, I was honest with him. I will never heed a man about things of God who knows not God. I don't feel the need to debate his beliefs, if he wants to understand about Christ we can chat, but I am not going to debate the Law, we are all condemned by the Law, the Law was given to Moses 100's of years after the PROMISE was given to Abraham, so the PROMISE was the Original Covenant, not the Law.
    Oh I could understand ( but not so much agree with ) someone taking that position, however, that has nothing whatsoever to do with what I wrote. He was merely explaining the correct words and usage and you replied

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I don't really discuss my Christian understandings with Hebrew Root type guys.
    For the record, Fenris isn't a Hebrew Roots guy, he's an Orthodox Jew. He knows Hebrew and has knowledge of biblical culture and times which greatly helps with translating OT word meaning and usage.

    Just saying...
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

  12. #72
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    On another note, I don't completely disagree with your original post and your and RandyK's follow up posts in this thread. Context with the whole of Scripture and the leading and revealing of the Holy Spirit go hand in hand when trying to discern the word of God.

    It's a great thread topic.
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

  13. #73
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Two Beasts are DIFFERENT.

    The Rev. 12, 13 and 17 Beasts are each different entities. We can tell via the CROWNS or lack thereof.

    Rev. 12 is Satan the Red Dragon {7 Crowns on 7 Heads}. Rev. 13 is the Man of Sin {10 Crowns on 10 Horns}. And in Rev. 17 we see the Scarlet Colored Beast who is Apollyon, who is in the bottomless pit as we speak, thus HE WAS.............IS NOT............YET IS. He has NO CROWNS, he is not a King of this World and is not over Satan of course, so he has NO CROWNS at all. He was placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region, thus he is OF THE 7 but is an 8th. He was the Prince of Persia who resisted Michael in Dan. ch. 10 for 21 days. He was over the Region in the Spirit world, he is what Ephesian 6:12 calls a Ruler of Darkness. He was then placed in the Pit by God, and thus he IS NOT but he YET IS in that he will be released at the 1st Woe. He then kills the Two-witnesses.

    Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    I wouldn't worry about the Tribulation Period, the Church will be Raptured to Heaven before that stats brother. God Bless.
    I agree with your interpretations for the Beast in Rev 12 as 'Satan' and the Antichrist in Rev 13. But the claim that the Scalet Coloured Beast is Apollyon is a bit of a stretch. Apollyon (Greek) or Abaddon (Hebrew) is an angel - not a Beast (Rev 9:11). I trust you agree there's a difference, for while a Beast is in every context, a leader an angel on the other hand, whether that of God or Satan, remains a servant or messenger.

    Secondly, he is not the one referenced as "not" and yet "is". This is about the Antichrist who "WAS" [past tense] in A4E and "NOT" as not physically present now but will yet come again [future] as the end time Antichrist - the little horn of Dan 7 and Beast of Rev 13.

  14. #74
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    THINK HERE Sister.....I posted a bunch of verses that point out the fact that YOWM is used for a period of time in many instances. I didn't go through each verse with a fine tooth comb, there are bad translations throughout the bible, but the GIST OF MY POINT REMAINS !! That was my point.
    And I will go through EACH verse to see IF you claim is correct.
    The point is you said this verse shows X, but when we look at that verse it does NOT show X.
    If not correctin that verse then what about another verse.

    YOWM is used over and over as a period of time, and one must then figure out by the clues what period of time is being spoken about, thus if I gave 15 verses to make a point, then someone says, THIS VERSE doesn't work that well. My thinking is like SO......... it in NO WISE changes the overall point I was making !! The other 14 verses still make the overall point valid. I didn't break down each verse in this quick word search/verse search. The point however is made, YOWM means a lot of different time periods, even if that verse should be translated Hound Dog or Rock. ONE VERSE never makes scriptures to me, it is "Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little".
    A day is a period of time so of course evey time yowm is used it is referring to a period of time.
    The question is whether it is normally referring to a physical day - to which the answer would be overwhelmingly it does.
    Could it be referring to day but in which the day is used metaphorically? In those instances it is still correct to understand yown as day and rather note the CONTEXT is giving the redefinement rather than the word itself being allowed to mean anything.
    The second verse I looked at was very clearly meaning days, so your hypothesis is ) for 2 at the moment.

    The Universe is 13.7 Billion years old, it is what it is. People can disagree, but try mentioning the whole body of work, not one verse, it's never about one verse with me anyway.
    You can post 100 verses, but if NOT ONE of those verses uphold your claim then they are actually a smoke screen. And are not relevant to what is stated.
    As for the Universe being 13.7 billion, that is a claim based upon certain assumptions - a bit like your verses claim.
    However get to grips with the underlying assumptions and it is amazing the things you find.
    Most base this on geology and cosmology and the requirement for such a length of time based upon uniformtarianism.

    P.S. I don't take advice from these Hebrew Root type guys. Nothing personal, but they are in most cases coming forth to sow confusion, I don't know this guy, but I have yet to be able to speak about anything Christian/Jesus with him without getting rebuffed towards the way that a Law Abiding Jew should think. I am free from the Law, Amen.
    The question is whether the person can speak with value as to the usage or meaning of words.
    My own view is that just as a scientist can speak into science without having to be a Christian so can others on other areas of knowledge.

  15. #75

    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    It could be two different Day of the Lords, one might be all about the Wrath of God and the other might be the 1000 year reign. I heaven dug down deep like I have on creation. I will, but what we know for sure is it's not ONE DAY, nor can it be. […]
    Consider also the passage I've posted many times before (or at least referenced it in my posts related to this general topic):

    Hosea 5:15 - 6:3 [and the context is re: Israel], where it uses the words "after two days" and "in [or, on] the third day".

    I believe it is saying that "on the third day" (not a singular 24-HOUR day) He will "raise us [Israel] up, and we [Israel] shall live in His sight." (This follows the "TILL" of verse 5:15, and this "in/on the third day" involves much more than merely a 24-hr day, but His promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom. [I consider that to be the third day [since the "I will go and return to my place, TILL"], aka the seventh day/day of "rest" [aka Hebrews 4:9's "sabbatismos"]). I believe it STARTS "at DARK [aka "sundown"]". [note: "the Church which is His body" will not be present on the earth during that time, the 7-yr trib] I've heard/read that "in the twinkling of an eye" refers to the precise moment when one day turns into the next, when the sun is eight-degrees below the horizon, at sundown (though I can't prove that to you, I do not recall the original source--this was many years ago), but we do know that it was reckoned that a day would START at the night [evening / dark] before. I believe this also makes sense in view of Paul's points in both 1 & 2 Thess.

    Then there is also the point I made about when the phrases "the DOTL" and "IN THAT DAY" are used in the SAME CONTEXTS, they refer to the same time period, and this holds for what we see in Zechariah 14 (see "day of the Lord" verse 1; and then later in the chpt the references numerous times to the phrase "IN THAT DAY" [clearly not a 24-hr day], where these two phrases are speaking of the SAME "day [not 24-hr]" but TWO DISTINCT aspects OF IT--the negative and then the positive, or the dark and then the light-of-day, so to speak--as in my previous posts on this).



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