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Thread: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

  1. #151
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    OK. Let's pretend that I accept the NT as being absolutely correct (obviously I do not. But pretend). It wasn't "the Jews" that killed Jesus, it was Pilate and his soldiers. And it wasn't "the Jews" that requested he be killed, it was some Jews hanging around outside Pilate's palace or whatever. Or is it ok for me to blame every Christian who ever lived when one Christian does something bad?
    Do you not get {Well I know you don't, you don't look at this from the Christian perspective} that the Kingdom was offered unto the Jews by Jesus and they Rejected it ?

    Matt. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

    39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    Which is Jesus quoting Psalm 118:26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

    So Jesus offered the Kingdom to Israel and they rejected it. Thus this is why 70 AD is like unto Zechariah 14 !! This is why the Fourth Beast was Rome, but the Little Horn they were expecting never came. This is why the Statue goes from the Legs of Iron to the Feet and toes of iron and clay, but there is a 2000 year gap in these events !! The Church Age was inserted. Ezekiel told us Israel would be as Dead Men's Bones until the time of the nd and then God would breath life back into them, albeit to start with they will still be in UNBELIEF, then the Jews turn to their Messiah after the Rapture of the Church. The Church is Christ Jesus' bride, Israel is God's bride.

    The Kingdom will be offered again. ALL ISRAEL will be saved, bit not every Jew, but Israel as a Nation is preserved because in Zechariah 13:8-9 we see 1/3 of all the Jews repent and 2/3 perish. Of Course the Jews rejected Jesus, they chose Barabbas over Jesus. The EXPRESS IMAGE OF God, was rejected all because Israel was blinded.

  2. #152
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Give 'em a few years. The media will have us all chanting her name.
    You see the parallel I hope. Scary.

  3. #153
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    LOL, OK....................I bring substance, you are still chatting about someones Hebrew understanding's of Words. I am very capable of understanding the root words, I am a grown boy, I don't need help in the study of Etymology brother.
    The entire premise your refusal to hear what a non Christian has to offer is logical fallacy.

    The Holy Spirit isn’t going to teach you all the depths in Hebrew and idioms. “shema” means more than “hear.” “shalom” means more than “peace” etc.

    Myself and other Christians also have The Holy Spirit, many here have Theological degrees or have studied Christian theology and appreciate Fenris. I am going to defend that.

    Some of us have also studied under Christians who were once Orthodox Jews and bring a different flavor to our faith and perspective yet reformed doctrine remains unshaken. That brings understanding and richness to our lives and our faith.

  4. #154
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Yeshua is a Aramaic short form of Yehoshua, and a popular name in the first century - and indeed, there was a Yehoshua in the TeNaKh.

    It still means what it means, and that is not lost on me, especially in light of how God changes names of ordinary people who serve God:

    Abram to Abraham.
    Sari to Sarah
    Jacob to Israel
    Simon to Kefa

    and on we go.

    God is a poet of extravagant beauty

  5. #155
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Why would I find it odd? I already said we have a reason for tragedies happening on this day.
    If all that is true, maybe it’s just me, but that seems awful coincidental to be a coincidence.

    Both Temples, plus.... - on the same anniversary date ? I did not know any of this.

    There’s more than meets the eye here...
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Read my post above.............What did Gabriel tell Joseph and Mary to call Jesus in Hebrew ? Yeshua {Salvation} now in almost every place where we see the Hebrew suffix meaning "my," thy," or "his used with Yeshua it this takes on the PERSONHOOD of Yeshua/Jesus {Thy, My or His SALVATION}..................Boom.
    The LXX transliterates Yehoshua (Joshua) as Iesous (Jesus in English)

    Yehoshua means “God is salvation.”

    Yeshua is a contraction of Yehoshua, and was a popular name during that period.

    Yes, it still means “God saves” so it appropriate but not unique.

    Here’s something you might to ponder. “Barabbas” is Greek for “bar Abba,” or “Son of the Father.”

    Ironically screaming for “bar Abba” to be released could have applied to both of them.

    In Acts 13, Luke says Elymas was known as “bar Jesus.” In hebrew that would be “son of (my) salvation.”

    I put (my) in parenthesis because you insist it’s implied whenever “salvation” is invoked in the TaNaKh.

    That doesn’t work.

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I am telling you it is Apollyon {Destroyer of Israel} AKA Abaddon. He is the Angel of the Bottomless Pit. Demons are Fallen Angels. Satan is an Angel and a BEAST over Israel, the Mediterranean Sea Region {7 Headed Beast} but he is over every region in the world, remember, in Luke 4 he offered Jesus ALL THE Kingdoms of the World. The Seven Heads and 10 Horns is just showing the "GOVERNMENT STRUCTURE" that has BEASTED over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region. Satan is over this whole wide world, the CODE NAME for that is "Babylon". It was Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, the WOUND will be healed by the Anti-Christ when he Conquers Jerusalem/Mediterranean Sea Region again. There was no Israel for night 2000 years, God saw her as Dead Men's Bones, the Church came forth, we had the Holy Spirit, the Gates of Hell could not prevail over us thus we WOUNDED the Beast, Rome went from a Beast to a kitty cat who eventually carried the water for Christendom, thus THE BEAST was Wounded !! The Little Horn who arises out of Greece, then comes to power in the E.U. and is an Assyrian {Turk}, will Conquer Jerusalem/Mediterranean Sea Region and thus the Beast ARISES again, or is HEALED from the Mortal Wound that sidelined it.

    Put this all together and who is Apollyon ? Well look at this verse here for starters. {Ephesians 6:12}

    Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Apollyon is the Demon from the Bottomless Pit that kills the Two-witnesses, he is released at the First Woe. He was assigned to the Mediterranean Sea Region as a "Principality in High Places" like Ephesians 6:12 describes, thus he was OF THE SEVEN but is an 8th, because he was a Demon assigned to the Region, he was over Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia {He was the Prince of Persia that withstood Michael for 21 days}, over Greece, and Rome and once the Church Age was inserted and Israel dispersed he was placed into the Bottomless Pit.........Thus he WAS {over the 7}........he IS NOT {he's in the pit as we speak} YET IS because he will be released, he will be over the Mediterranean Sea Region once again thus the 7 Heads and 10 Horns with NO CROWNS, is Apollyon the Destroyer !!

    An Angel {Star} falls and releases the Demons in the Bottomless Pit, Apollyon is over the Bottomless Pit, he is a Demon, al Demons are Angels. He is not a Physical Being thus he has no CROWNS via the Earth, and he is never over Satan, thus he has NO CROWNS in the Spirit World.

    No man dies and returns brother, man lives ONCE and then the Judgment. A4E is dead and will be in hell at the Second Resurrection, I am pretty sure he will be in hell. The Little Horn will be a man {was a man born in Greece IMHO} born in Greece. Men are not born twice.

    Think about it.....I have been given his about a year ago.
    I'm not sure you're aware of your contradictions? Satan is the head of all the fallen angels and a Beast in his own right. Apollyon, on the other hand, is not. He is described merely as an angel - I'm not disputing his power and who he will overcome. Just wanted to correct that Apollyon/Abaddon is NOT A BEAST as you previously asserted. You keep shifting from Apollyon to Satan as the one who was and is not and will be again without explaining why? Seems to me you are just throwing pebbles in the dark - the one that hits a target is the right one. But you're wrong because neither of your choices fit.

    The Beast that was is no more and will be again is the Antichrist (Rev 13, little horn of Dan 7). It is not Apollyon or Satan! This is easy to understand; the beast has to have physically appeared BEFORE to fulfil the claim that he has been or "was" and will once again appear physically. Only the Antichrist fulfils this. Although Satan has orchestrated every conceivable sin and abomination since Adam, he has, however, remained in spirit form and has NEVER done anything on record as a physical being.

    The Beast/Antichrist is a personality empowered by Satan. When scripture says he was and will come again, it's not saying that the first manifestation (A4E) will yet rise again as the man who died 2500 years ago. I don't know anyone that denies that A4E was the antitype of the future A/C? We are told in Rev 13:2 that "the dragon [Satan] gives power and great authority to the A/C.

    You are the only one in the whole wide world who claim to know where the Antichrist will come from. I have never come across any scholars with such bullish claim. But whether you are right or wrong is not for me to say. But I can at least point out your little error; you said the A/C will arise from Greece, come to power in the EU and that he's an Assyrian Turk. Not sure whether you realise this doesn't make sense?

    1. If he actually comes from Greece, then he doesn't need to "come to power in the EU" since Greece is in the EU.
    2. A "Turk" is a citizen of Turkey, a country that is not in the EU.
    3. I hope you can work out your mistake?

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Yes is was bad I read Josephus book on it.

    but when the Jews turned back to god they were reastableshed in the past and that hasn’t happened yet even though they now have the city why don’t you think they have the temple again?
    Because we're still not getting along as we should I suppose.

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I don't mind listening to you friendo, but when I sense someone trying to undermine my Christian Message on a "CHRISTIAN MESSAGE BOARD" I am going to push back.
    I don't know what a "friendo" is. I'm not here to undermine anything. I've already said that I don't expect anyone to agree with me. I just want people to understand that other viewpoints are possible. That Jews aren't "blind" but that their viewpoint is perfectly consistent with the bible also.


    I wouldn't come on a Jewish/Judaism Board and try to undermine your message, nor demand you guys believe in Jesus, I would just keep my chats to the Old Testament, and speak about the Maschiac/Messiah.
    Yeah, sure, whatever.
    But we are on a Christian Message Board brother. It has not just happened this once, it's every time I have ever replied to you I get the vibe you are here to undermine or sow confusion amongst the brothers, and the Holy Spirit shows me these things in my spirit.
    Well, if the holy spirit is talking to you, I mean who can argue with that?

    What does Yeshua {Jesus} really mean ? It means Salvation in essence. So anytime I see Salvation used with the Hebrew suffix meaning "my," thy," or "his I see it as saying Jesus.

    Y E S H U A
    IN THE TANAKH
    (The Name of JESUS in the Old Testament)

    Arthur E. Glass

    In dealing with my Jewish brethren for the past many years in Canada, the United States, Argentina and Uruguay. I had one great difficulty, and it was this: My Jewish people would always fling at me this challenging question, "If Jesus is our Messiah, and the whole Old Testament is about Him, how come His name is never mentioned in It even once?"
    Um, that's hardly the only issue. The Jewish objection goes way deeper than "why Isn't Jesus's name in the bible?"

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    If all that is true, maybe it’s just me, but that seems awful coincidental to be a coincidence.

    Both Temples, plus.... - on the same anniversary date ? I did not know any of this.

    There’s more than meets the eye here...
    I already said it's not a coincidence. I've already explained why the day has ill fortune.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Do you not get {Well I know you don't, you don't look at this from the Christian perspective} that the Kingdom was offered unto the Jews by Jesus and they Rejected it ?

    Matt. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

    39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    Which is Jesus quoting Psalm 118:26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

    So Jesus offered the Kingdom to Israel and they rejected it. Thus this is why 70 AD is like unto Zechariah 14 !! This is why the Fourth Beast was Rome, but the Little Horn they were expecting never came. This is why the Statue goes from the Legs of Iron to the Feet and toes of iron and clay, but there is a 2000 year gap in these events !! The Church Age was inserted. Ezekiel told us Israel would be as Dead Men's Bones until the time of the nd and then God would breath life back into them, albeit to start with they will still be in UNBELIEF, then the Jews turn to their Messiah after the Rapture of the Church. The Church is Christ Jesus' bride, Israel is God's bride.

    The Kingdom will be offered again. ALL ISRAEL will be saved, bit not every Jew, but Israel as a Nation is preserved because in Zechariah 13:8-9 we see 1/3 of all the Jews repent and 2/3 perish. Of Course the Jews rejected Jesus, they chose Barabbas over Jesus. The EXPRESS IMAGE OF God, was rejected all because Israel was blinded.
    I don't even know what you're trying to say here. Have a great day and God bless!

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I'm not sure you're aware of your contradictions? Satan is the head of all the fallen angels and a Beast in his own right. Apollyon, on the other hand, is not. He is described merely as an angel - I'm not disputing his power and who he will overcome. Just wanted to correct that Apollyon/Abaddon is NOT A BEAST as you previously asserted. You keep shifting from Apollyon to Satan as the one who was and is not and will be again without explaining why? Seems to me you are just throwing pebbles in the dark - the one that hits a target is the right one. But you're wrong because neither of your choices fit.

    The Beast that was is no more and will be again is the Antichrist (Rev 13, little horn of Dan 7). It is not Apollyon or Satan! This is easy to understand; the beast has to have physically appeared BEFORE to fulfil the claim that he has been or "was" and will once again appear physically. Only the Antichrist fulfils this. Although Satan has orchestrated every conceivable sin and abomination since Adam, he has, however, remained in spirit form and has NEVER done anything on record as a physical being.
    So one has 7 Crowns, one has 10 Crowns and one has NO CROWNS mentioned and you think they are nor not three different entries? I have followed this to its logical conclusion brother. I can show you my so called "footnotes" I guess.

    In Rev. 9 a Star {Angel} falls from Heaven and opens the Bottomless Pit. The Locust {Demons} go forth on earth and they are led by the King of the Bottomless Pit Abaddon or Apollyon, he is the Angel of Sheol so to speak or of death, where men will die. He is called the Destroyer in the Greek.

    In Rev. 11 we see that the Beast that ASCENDS out of the Bottomless Pit KILLS the Two-witnesses, and we know that the Anti-Christ is a man that comes forth at the First Seal, he's not a Demon who comes forth at the 1st Woe !!

    Rev. 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    Then in Rev. 17 we are told the Beast that Ascends out of the Bottomless Pit is the one who WAS......IS NOT......YET IS.

    Rev. 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    Who is the only one mentioned by name in all three passages ? Abollyon, the Demon King Released from the Bottomless Pit, his Kingdom is Sheol or Death. He was over the Mediterranean Region before the 1st Woe, but how do we know this for sure ? The bible tells us. HE WAS OF THE 7 and is an 8th !!

    11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    So Apollon is of the 7. That means before he was placed in the Bottomless Pit he was over the Mediterranean Sea Region. and after he gets out he will be over the Anti-Christ.

    I go by the scriptures, I don't just guess brother. Thus he is called a Beast with NO CROWNS in Rev. 17 because his Kingdom is not a part of the Mediterranean Sea Region, his Kingdom is the Bottomless Pit. But he was assigned the Mediterranean Sea Region until he was locked in the Bottomless Pit. So he is described as a Beast in Rev. 17, the Beast that came out of the Pit, Satan is in Heaven, men do not die and get reborn !! It can only be Apollyon !! Satan assigns Demons t cities/regions/states/countries all the time.

    Rev. 12 is about Satan, thus the 7 Crowns on 7 Heads SIGNIFIES who he is.

    Rev. 13 is about the Anti-Christ, thus the 10 Crowns on the Horns {Kings} that give hm his power, SIGNIFYING who he is.

    Rev. 17 tells us of a Demon Power placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region, Satan assigns these Demons of course, so he has the "CROWNS", Apollyon has NO CROWNS !! Thus this SIGNIFIES Apollyon as the Demon Entity that was OVER THE SIX {Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome}, who was then placed in the Pit, who was then released at the 1st Woe, and is placed over the Region once again, he thus is the Demon who has be charged by Satan to bring a World Government to Power from the Mediterranean Sea Region. He is Apollyon, the King over the Bottomless Pit or Sheol.

    Why would Satan be the one that IS NOT ? He's not locked in a pit and never has been. Now a fews years back, before I was given the Apollyon angle I might have been like you are on this subject. I never thought he was the Anti-Christ, men are judged ONCE. I never knew the Apollyon angle until 2 or 3 years ago, But I have been consistent, probably as long as I have been on here. Not knowing and then being given something is what we call revelation, God gives us knew understandings every day, if we are listening. But I have been on to Apollyon for 2 or 3 years, nothing has changed at all brother. maybe you are confusing me with someone else.

    P.S. Men do not go to the Pit and return.

    The Beast/Antichrist is a personality empowered by Satan. When scripture says he was and will come again, it's not saying that the first manifestation (A4E) will yet rise again as the man who died 2500 years ago. I don't know anyone that denies that A4E was the antitype of the future A/C? We are told in Rev 13:2 that "the dragon [Satan] gives power and great authority to the A/C.
    AE4 is a TYPE as is Jason a TYPE of the False Prophet, that is because Satan is always trying to accomplish the same thing. No man arises brother, people say that because hey can't figure out Rev. 17, but I was given Rev. 17. So I understand the confusion, I didn't know it for 25 plus years myself. So I have been there brother.

    You are the only one in the whole wide world who claim to know where the Antichrist will come from. I have never come across any scholars with such bullish claim. But whether you are right or wrong is not for me to say. But I can at least point out your little error; you said the A/C will arise from Greece, come to power in the EU and that he's an Assyrian Turk. Not sure whether you realise this doesn't make sense?

    1. If he actually comes from Greece, then he doesn't need to "come to power in the EU" since Greece is in the EU.
    2. A "Turk" is a citizen of Turkey, a country that is not in the EU.
    3. I hope you can work out your mistake?
    Sure he does, he has to have 10 Confederates {some say 10 Means FULLNESS, and thus it could mean 20-25 countries WHO KNOWS} and thus I stick with the 10 Kings who are described as Horns/powers, who give their power unto him. So he has to come to power in the E.U.

    He is an Assyrian by heritage, but if he's born in Greece, and comes to power in the E.U., he's still an Assyrian right ?

    Say we had a prophecy from 200 years ago in 1819 that stated in three different places that 1.) He would be a Mexican 2.) He would be born in one of Four States under a Heberals control 3.) And that he would come to power in a Beast [know to be the USA]. How would we figure this out ?

    Well if the only one of the Four States/Districts that was in America was Texas, and we knew the BEAST was the USA by Default, then we would understand, a Guy of Mexican Heritage, would come to power in the USA and he would have to be born in Texas.

    The Scriptures demand that this be true, because I understand the passages, its my calling.

    Now what boosts this understanding ? The Daniel 11 scriptures goes the extra mile to detail every King of the North vs. King of the South throughout history, then we are given the Anti-Christ TYPE in Antiochus and if we research we are also given the TYPE of the False Prophet in Jason. Then in verses 36-45 we are told about this King of the North and his Conquests in Detail. And we know he arises out of the Fourth Beast via Daniel 7............It all fits. He comes to power in the E.U. Power Structure, of course. {Fourth Beast}.

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Your beliefs are not in alignment with the actual history of the era.
    Trouble is, the New Testament *is* much of the history of the era. And the NT Scriptures clearly indicate Israel was in a bad state at the time Jesus appeared. I would cite all of the places where the Prophets indicate Israel had fallen into a "down cycle." For example, Israel was in a "down cycle" right before the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities.

    My point is that the Jewish People and the leadership among Jewish parties were generally bad people in the era in which the early Church formed. They therefore persecuted the Christians.

    The Church was no different. At certain periods in history Christians persecuted the Jews, and were in a "bad cycle." There have always been cases of "bad Jews" or "bad Christians," but I'm talking about "down cycles" in which the majority of either Jews or Christians did not behave in an exemplary way. The NT Scriptures portray the time in which Jesus came as a time of external conformity to the Law and internal hypocrisy. Despite paying tithes, for example, the heart within was full of murderous thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    Yes. Well, it makes a big difference that Christianity is no longer a Jewish sect.
    I suppose Messianic Jews would debate that, but overall you're correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    I don't think they disliked him. They just didn't think he was the messiah. You're conflating rejection of his message with dislike of him as a person.
    Of course I do. Rejection of his message is synonymous with rejection of him as a person. I would argue that he was his message.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    I don't think any of this is true. Jesus's ideas and ideals aligned very closely with the Pharisees.
    That is the strangest thing. Yes, Jesus called for 100% conformity with the Law, which is also what the Pharisees called for. And yet the Pharisees absolutely hated him, because they perceived that he saw himself as a judge over them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    None of this has anything to do with what I said. If Jesus did create a new Jewish sect, then he was going to come into conflict with the other sects. That's life in first century Judea.
    Yes, I'm describing life in the 1st century Judea. The Jewish sects, and the Jews overall, were in a bad state. That's why John the Baptist had so many go to him to be baptized, because there was an admission of this bad state of affairs. Initially Jesus had a big following among the Jewish People. But once the teaching got too demanding, they turned on him like wolves. Their "baptism" obviously didn't take!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    That's not the thinking you used above. I provided a counterexample so now you've changed the criteria. Please don't do that.
    I have no idea what you're talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    I don't think Christians "returned intolerance". They were always intolerant. It comes across in the NT very plainly. Now, as I've said, all the Jewish sects in first century Judea were fairly intolerant of others, so I don't expect the early Jewish-Christians to be any different.
    You're here conflating the idea of "intolerance" in dogma with "intolerance" in behavior. Most religions have a set of doctrines, and are not synchretistic. They do not exist unless there are rules that distinguish them as a religion from others.

    This is not "behavioral intolerance," in which people are dragged before an Inquisition in a Christian country and tortured until they repent! Judaism and Christianity do have "intolerant" dogmas, ie they specify a certain amount of doctrinal conformity in order to be considered a true Jew or a true Christian.

    But this doesn't mean either Judaism or Christianity is compelled to persecute those of other religions. That would be behavioral intolerance. As you say, if there is an encroachment by a heretical cult to penetrate the main body of a religion, then it is not persecution to discharge from within the body the heretical cult. Nor would it be out of place to utilize courts in a religious country to impose law and order upon cults that are seditious.

    On the other hand, to advocate open persecution of groups that otherwise are orderly and not disruptive is behavioral intolerance and constitutes bad behavior for any religion. Peoples of the different religions behave this way at various times in their history when they are in a "down cycle."

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    Listen, I do not see our differences as fundamental. We have so much common ground. The bible. Ethical monotheism. The end game of the world united under God's rule. We want some of the very same things. We should strive for more cooperation and mutual respect and understanding. Maybe we can start it right here.
    Good people separate themselves from bad behavior, persecutions, and behavioral intolerance. Christianity is *not* a religion that practices, at all times, that kind of intolerance. Jesus advocated for love of one's enemies. That is, even if we are making war against another country, it is never to be out of hatred for their soul. We are to hope for the best for all. And I should think Judaism has similar teachings?

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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    So one has 7 Crowns, one has 10 Crowns and one has NO CROWNS mentioned and you think they are nor not three different entries? I have followed this to its logical conclusion brother. I can show you my so called "footnotes" I guess.

    In Rev. 9 a Star {Angel} falls from Heaven and opens the Bottomless Pit. The Locust {Demons} go forth on earth and they are led by the King of the Bottomless Pit Abaddon or Apollyon, he is the Angel of Sheol so to speak or of death, where men will die. He is called the Destroyer in the Greek.

    In Rev. 11 we see that the Beast that ASCENDS out of the Bottomless Pit KILLS the Two-witnesses, and we know that the Anti-Christ is a man that comes forth at the First Seal, he's not a Demon who comes forth at the 1st Woe !!

    Rev. 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    Then in Rev. 17 we are told the Beast that Ascends out of the Bottomless Pit is the one who WAS......IS NOT......YET IS.

    Rev. 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    Who is the only one mentioned by name in all three passages ? Abollyon, the Demon King Released from the Bottomless Pit, his Kingdom is Sheol or Death. He was over the Mediterranean Region before the 1st Woe, but how do we know this for sure ? The bible tells us. HE WAS OF THE 7 and is an 8th !!

    11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    So Apollon is of the 7. That means before he was placed in the Bottomless Pit he was over the Mediterranean Sea Region. and after he gets out he will be over the Anti-Christ.

    I go by the scriptures, I don't just guess brother. Thus he is called a Beast with NO CROWNS in Rev. 17 because his Kingdom is not a part of the Mediterranean Sea Region, his Kingdom is the Bottomless Pit. But he was assigned the Mediterranean Sea Region until he was locked in the Bottomless Pit. So he is described as a Beast in Rev. 17, the Beast that came out of the Pit, Satan is in Heaven, men do not die and get reborn !! It can only be Apollyon !! Satan assigns Demons t cities/regions/states/countries all the time.

    Rev. 12 is about Satan, thus the 7 Crowns on 7 Heads SIGNIFIES who he is.

    Rev. 13 is about the Anti-Christ, thus the 10 Crowns on the Horns {Kings} that give hm his power, SIGNIFYING who he is.

    Rev. 17 tells us of a Demon Power placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region, Satan assigns these Demons of course, so he has the "CROWNS", Apollyon has NO CROWNS !! Thus this SIGNIFIES Apollyon as the Demon Entity that was OVER THE SIX {Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome}, who was then placed in the Pit, who was then released at the 1st Woe, and is placed over the Region once again, he thus is the Demon who has be charged by Satan to bring a World Government to Power from the Mediterranean Sea Region. He is Apollyon, the King over the Bottomless Pit or Sheol.

    Why would Satan be the one that IS NOT ? He's not locked in a pit and never has been. Now a fews years back, before I was given the Apollyon angle I might have been like you are on this subject. I never thought he was the Anti-Christ, men are judged ONCE. I never knew the Apollyon angle until 2 or 3 years ago, But I have been consistent, probably as long as I have been on here. Not knowing and then being given something is what we call revelation, God gives us knew understandings every day, if we are listening. But I have been on to Apollyon for 2 or 3 years, nothing has changed at all brother. maybe you are confusing me with someone else.

    P.S. Men do not go to the Pit and return.
    I concede that you are right. Apollyon is the beast that was and is not. Thanks for clarifying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Sure he does, he has to have 10 Confederates {some say 10 Means FULLNESS, and thus it could mean 20-25 countries WHO KNOWS} and thus I stick with the 10 Kings who are described as Horns/powers, who give their power unto him. So he has to come to power in the E.U.

    He is an Assyrian by heritage, but if he's born in Greece, and comes to power in the E.U., he's still an Assyrian right ?

    Say we had a prophecy from 200 years ago in 1819 that stated in three different places that 1.) He would be a Mexican 2.) He would be born in one of Four States under a Heberals control 3.) And that he would come to power in a Beast [know to be the USA]. How would we figure this out ?

    Well if the only one of the Four States/Districts that was in America was Texas, and we knew the BEAST was the USA by Default, then we would understand, a Guy of Mexican Heritage, would come to power in the USA and he would have to be born in Texas.

    The Scriptures demand that this be true, because I understand the passages, its my calling.

    Now what boosts this understanding ? The Daniel 11 scriptures goes the extra mile to detail every King of the North vs. King of the South throughout history, then we are given the Anti-Christ TYPE in Antiochus and if we research we are also given the TYPE of the False Prophet in Jason. Then in verses 36-45 we are told about this King of the North and his Conquests in Detail. And we know he arises out of the Fourth Beast via Daniel 7............It all fits. He comes to power in the E.U. Power Structure, of course. {Fourth Beast}.
    On the origin of the Antichrist and where he will come from, your exegesis is more conjecture than scripturally factual. Furthermore, there is nothing in Dan 11 that pertains to the future Antichrist.

  14. #164
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Trouble is, the New Testament *is* much of the history of the era.
    No, my friend. It is not. Everyone here acts like the NT is some impartial source of facts. It's a holy book, written by people who believed a certain thing and wanted other people to believe that thing too. That calls into question everything within. Mind you, the same is true of my own bible. Or any holy book.


    My point is that the Jewish People and the leadership among Jewish parties were generally bad people in the era in which the early Church formed. They therefore persecuted the Christians.
    Again, only according to your book, which also makes the case that "gentiles have replaced Israel". So saying that the Jews were bad is not just a random observation, but the whole raison detre of the books in question. Again, this makes them partial.

    The Church was no different. At certain periods in history Christians persecuted the Jews, and were in a "bad cycle." There have always been cases of "bad Jews" or "bad Christians," but I'm talking about "down cycles" in which the majority of either Jews or Christians did not behave in an exemplary way.
    Ehhh it really doesn't matter what the majority believed. It's what the people in power believed.

    I suppose Messianic Jews would debate that, but overall you're correct.
    SDAs and JWs and Mormons also insist that they're Christian, although nobody here seems to believe that.



    Of course I do. Rejection of his message is synonymous with rejection of him as a person. I would argue that he was his message.
    That's not true. I reject your message but think you're a stand-up guy. Compartmentalizing is possible.



    That is the strangest thing. Yes, Jesus called for 100% conformity with the Law, which is also what the Pharisees called for. And yet the Pharisees absolutely hated him, because they perceived that he saw himself as a judge over them.
    I don't think the Pharisees hated him at all. Yes, I know that's what your book says. But it's also reflecting tensions of a later era. The Sadducees would have hated him, as they were the entrenched power in Jerusalem who would have been overthrown. But the NT hardly dwells on them at all. Strange, that.



    Yes, I'm describing life in the 1st century Judea. The Jewish sects, and the Jews overall, were in a bad state.
    You're ignoring my point. Jesus was rejected by other sects in the same way they rejected each other. You make it sound like he was unique in this regard.
    You're here conflating the idea of "intolerance" in dogma with "intolerance" in behavior. Most religions have a set of doctrines, and are not synchretistic. They do not exist unless there are rules that distinguish them as a religion from others.

    This is not "behavioral intolerance," in which people are dragged before an Inquisition in a Christian country and tortured until they repent! Judaism and Christianity do have "intolerant" dogmas, ie they specify a certain amount of doctrinal conformity in order to be considered a true Jew or a true Christian.

    But this doesn't mean either Judaism or Christianity is compelled to persecute those of other religions.
    Judaism didn't persecute Christians. They were in conflict with other sects of Judaism. When Christianity became a separate, gentile majority religion, it ceased to be of importance to Jews.


    On the other hand, to advocate open persecution of groups that otherwise are orderly and not disruptive is behavioral intolerance and constitutes bad behavior for any religion. Peoples of the different religions behave this way at various times in their history when they are in a "down cycle."
    You've invented this phenomena of "up and down cycles" in this very post it seems.


    Good people separate themselves from bad behavior, persecutions, and behavioral intolerance. Christianity is *not* a religion that practices, at all times, that kind of intolerance. Jesus advocated for love of one's enemies. That is, even if we are making war against another country, it is never to be out of hatred for their soul. We are to hope for the best for all. And I should think Judaism has similar teachings?
    Judaism does not advocate that we love our enemies. We are required to treat them fairly however. Having said that, some consider the IDF the most moral army in the world. Colonel Richard Kemp, former commander of the British forces in Afghanistan: "The IDF did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare."

  15. #165
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    Re: The Day of the Lord: the actual meaning of the word YOWM

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    You see the parallel I hope. Scary.
    I see the extreme Left of the Democrat Party so scary that I wonder who you can leave out of the mob? It's like an infection spreading throughout American society, robbing us of hope and making us willing to put our trust in people unworthy of our trust.

    I do see that nations can begin well, though weak, and progress to a point of strength, only to relapse into weakness and apostasy. Remember that God waited with the Canaanites until they became so despicably wicked that there was no hope--not even for their children.

    Sin spreads in a society, once it is left unchecked. It acquires its own momentum, and doesn't stop until it destroys all resistance to its compulsions and obsessions. The Jews had the fulness of their wickedness arrive in the days of Christ. Christian nations in Europe have also had their days of extreme wickedness.

    This is not to condemn all Jews, nor to condemn all Christians. This is just a warning to hold back the forces of unbridled carnality as long as possible. Otherwise, all hell will break loose. And judgment will have to fall, just as on Sodom and Gomorrah, or as in the Flood.

    I hope you see my parallel?

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