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Thread: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

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    Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    Few have ever mentioned or perhaps noticed that there is a major divide in the book of Revelation. Here is the divide.

    Rev 10
    09 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
    10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
    11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

    Thus John now is going to retell the prophesy however not to the church but to the rest of the world including Israel. So the book can be divided with the first part given to the church and the latter to the rest of the world. Hence if you take the book to be continuous you come up with erroneous 7 year tribulation ect….Note the details of each part are not exactly the same as the audience is not the same.

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    Re: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Few have ever mentioned or perhaps noticed that there is a major divide in the book of Revelation. Here is the divide.

    Rev 10
    09 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
    10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
    11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

    Thus John now is going to retell the prophesy however not to the church but to the rest of the world including Israel. So the book can be divided with the first part given to the church and the latter to the rest of the world. Hence if you take the book to be continuous you come up with erroneous 7 year tribulation ect….Note the details of each part are not exactly the same as the audience is not the same.
    There's certainly a pause here. However, I tend to see the "little book" as symbolic of the last 3.5 years of the age. The scroll with 7 seals is, on the other hand, a prophecy of the entire NT age, beginning with the Early Church and leading up until the end of the age. The Devil is in the details!

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    Re: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Few have ever mentioned or perhaps noticed that there is a major divide in the book of Revelation. Here is the divide.

    Rev 10
    09 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
    10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
    11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

    Thus John now is going to retell the prophesy however not to the church but to the rest of the world including Israel. So the book can be divided with the first part given to the church and the latter to the rest of the world. Hence if you take the book to be continuous you come up with erroneous 7 year tribulation ect….Note the details of each part are not exactly the same as the audience is not the same.
    If you notice in the very last chapter of revelation Jesus states that the message is still to the 7 churches

  4. #4

    Re: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    ross3421: Can we maybe talk about this Chapter a little. What do you think about verse 7 being all the mystery being understood at this point of time. I love Chapter 10. Also the return of John or maybe He never left Earth.

    7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

  5. #5

    Re: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    I think what this here is saying. God sent a Angel from Heaven. Many times God speaks out of a cloud so this person hears Gods voice. The rainbow is around the throne so understands just about all these things written. The face looks like the star in spirit and liken to one in flesh. the feet of fire where he talks or steps it kinda burns the heart maybe upset people they would think the person a heretic maybe. Foot on the sea, are people. foot on Earth the person is flesh and blood also. Person reveals the thunders.


    10 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: 2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
    3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

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    Re: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by David Reese View Post
    ross3421: Can we maybe talk about this Chapter a little. What do you think about verse 7 being all the mystery being understood at this point of time.

    7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
    So the mystery of God pertains to the prophets. And after the seventh angel sounds we see the servants are to get a reward. So the reward must be for them to understand the mystery.

    15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
    16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
    17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
    18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    Do we see this in scripture?

    Joel 2
    27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
    28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
    29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

    Thus thru the second outpouring of the Spirit towards this time to Israel they will understand.

    I love Chapter 10. Also the return of John or maybe He never left Earth.

    Not sure your thought here?

  7. #7

    Re: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    So the mystery of God pertains to the prophets. And after the seventh angel sounds we see the servants are to get a reward. So the reward must be for them to understand the mystery.

    15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
    16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
    17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
    18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    Do we see this in scripture?

    Joel 2
    27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
    28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
    29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

    Thus thru the second outpouring of the Spirit towards this time to Israel they will understand.




    Not sure your thought here?
    It will be cool to see John and that Christ may have kept him that many years and didn't die. Whats also cool in Chapter 10 it speaks of the end of time no more but yet to happen. Do you see in the sevens, vial, trumpet, seal the end of earth in that order.

  8. #8

    Re: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    This person speaks of all Gods creation and all the planets in the cosmos and men on them. Do you understand that sea are refereed as also the cosmos and water that can also be in the heaven and on earth. Most would think only Earth and man here but no where else. When time stops so will Earth. The book the person speaks of so will John have the same message. Generally when understanding from God is given you be so happy but when ya chew it up it becomes so sad. What you think.


    6
    And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

    7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
    8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
    9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

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    Re: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Few have ever mentioned or perhaps noticed that there is a major divide in the book of Revelation. Here is the divide.

    Rev 10
    09 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
    10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
    11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

    Thus John now is going to retell the prophesy however not to the church but to the rest of the world including Israel. So the book can be divided with the first part given to the church and the latter to the rest of the world. Hence if you take the book to be continuous you come up with erroneous 7 year tribulation ect….Note the details of each part are not exactly the same as the audience is not the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Few have ever mentioned or perhaps noticed that there is a major divide in the book of Revelation. Here is the divide.

    Rev 10
    09 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
    10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

    11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

    Thus John now is going to retell the prophesy however not to the church but to the rest of the world including Israel. So the book can be divided with the first part given to the church and the latter to the rest of the world. Hence if you take the book to be continuous you come up with erroneous 7 year tribulation ect….Note the details of each part are not exactly the same as the audience is not the same.
    Rev 10:5-7

    "And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the earth lifted his hand to the heaven,
    and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created the heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there should no longer be time.

    But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he will begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets."


    Daniel 12:7-10 :

    "And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was on the waters of the river, when he held up his right and his left hand to Heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half. And when they have made an end of scattering the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

    And I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, O my lord, what shall be the end of these things?

    And He said, Go, Daniel! For the words are closed up and sealed until the end-time.

    Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried. But the wicked shall do wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand."


    I believe Revelation 10 is a parenthesis inserted to amplify the meaning of what is coming, and to give us more understanding of what the passage to follow refers to. Here's why:

    1. The very next chapter opens by talking about the measuring of the temple, while the passage in Daniel mentions the "abomination of Desolation":

    "Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there,
    but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months."
    (Rev 11:1-2)

    "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the desolating abomination set up, a thousand two hundred and ninety days shall occur.
    Blessed is he who waits and comes to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
    But you go on to the end,for you shall rest and stand in your lot at the end of the days
    ." [/I](Daniel 12:11-13).

    The passage in Daniel opened by mentioning, among other things, the resurrection of the dead in the last days:

    "And at that time Michael shall stand up, the great ruler who stands for the sons of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation; until that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
    And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
    And those who are wise shall shine as the brightness of the sky; and those who turn many to righteousness shall shine as the stars forever and ever.
    But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, even to the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." (Daniel 12:1-4)

    2. CONSIDER:

    We need to bear in mind that when the books of the N.T were written, they contained no chapter and verse divisions - these were added later (thank the Lord) for clarity.

    Revelation 10 being a parenthesis between the 6th and 7th trumpets, I actually think that Revelation 11:1-14 should be part of Revelation 10.

    Why?

    Because the 6th trumpet is the 2nd "woe":

    Rev 9:12-13 begins the 2nd "woe" with the 6th trumpet, and the 2nd "woe" ends immediately after the resurrection of "the two witnesses" (Rev 11: 12-14).

    The 3rd and final "woe" is the 7th and final trumpet - and we understand from other prophecy that the 7th trumpet is the great and awesome Day of the LORD.

    Bearing this in mind, consider that in Rev 10:11, John is told:

    "You must again prophesy about many peoples and nations and languages and kings." (Rev 10:11).

    [B]This is still during the parenthesis coming between the 6th and 7th trumpet, and still during the 2nd "woe".

    The measuring of the temple and the prophecy period of "the two witnesses" is therefore also during the 2nd "woe" period.

    (It makes me wonder if one of the "two witnesses" is perhaps the apostle John!). Maybe he never died, maybe like Elijah, he was taken into heaven?

    Anyway, speculation aside, Revelation 9:13 to 10:13 are talking about events taking place during the 2nd "woe", and cannot be a division of Revelation into two parts, because

    A) Revelation 10:1 to 11: 14 are a build up to the 7th and final trumpet,,

    B) what we read from Rev 10:1 to Rev 11:13 is a parenthesis which is at the very least alluding to Daniel chapter 12 (but actually I believe Rev 10:1 to 11:13 is not merely alluding to Daniel chapter 12, but supplementing and completing the picture given to Daniel).

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    Re: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by David Reese View Post
    It will be cool to see John and that Christ may have kept him that many years and didn't die

    Who are you saying is John?? Not understanding your thought. Please explain

  11. #11

    Re: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    Only two real possibility, One John passed and went into Heaven and returns in spirit either born of flesh again or in spirit. Other He never died.

  12. #12

    Re: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    The first Thunder.


    Revelation 16:12 King James Version (KJV)

    12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

    This is the beginning of the End. You will here that thunder. Moreover the dead sea will then be cleaned out.

  13. #13

    Re: Understanding the main divison and the term "saints" in Revelation

    This is the order. Thunders are the vials 6,5,4,3,2,1. Jesus the Christ gives us terms in 3,s. Vials, trumpets and seals in this order. The count down starts. More info. The first shall be last and the last shall be first. The white horse is Christ the first and the white horse last. The sevens are the sabbath the end of time. Most things are cause by stars and planets in our solar system. Now you can understand these things that will come to past shortly. You study in this manner and the truth will set you free and will open your eyes as the blinders are now removed.

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