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Thread: the whole nation will be saved

  1. #61
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    Re: the whole nation will be saved

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    You say Tabernacles has been fulfilled. Most believe the last 3 feasts are yet to be fulfilled. So do you believe the Feasts of "Trumpets," "Day of Atonement," have already been fulfilled too?

    I guess I am not seeing what you are seeing on Tabernacles... is it possible for you to explain... I am not seeing it in the chapters you give.
    Sukkot, or the wandering in the wilderness, dwelling in booths; ended when the true tabernacle came; and tabernacled with us.
    When Christ came, the living waters flowed from Jerusalem; the true living waters, the Holy Spirit; that brought all people together and granted access to the true Jerusalem regardless of where they were. The true temple of God, Christ, now provides the living water to all who dwell in Him.



    John 4:2 "Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. "

    John 7:2" Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand. In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive"



    Here is the permanent dwelling now for all who believe; by Christ and His Spirit; showing the fulfillment and end of the wandering, booths, and search for indwelling.

    "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20

    "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. " Matt 28:20

    "for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. " Hebrews 13:5

    "I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever" John 14:16

    "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." John 6:56

    "ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. " II Corinthians 6:16

    "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? " I Corinthians 3:16

    "If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. " I John 4:12

    "For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever. Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth" II John 1:2




    As for the Day of Atonement fulfillment, I also believe it has been fulfilled.

    Salvation has come to all israel, and all of israel's children from every generation since Christ's sacrifice.

    Peter told us this in Acts chapter 2, that it was for 'all the house of Israel' and ' all your children'.

    Jesus fulfilled the day of atonement when He, hanging on the cross said, "IT IS FINISHED".

    If Jesus dying on the cross for the atonement of all the sins of all humans who ever lived, is not the day of atonement being fulfilled, it will never be fulfilled.

    Paul also confirms this, when writing to the people in Rome, stated: "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. " Romans 5:8

    As for Feast of Trumpets, it has the most likelihood of still being a future fulfillment; with all of the prophecies still outstand of the trumpets that sound at Christ's second Advent in Matthew 24:31, I Thessalonians 4:17, I Corinthians 15:23, and Revelation 11:15.

  2. #62
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    Re: the whole nation will be saved

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    I think you are making something up that is divisive; that God is not devisive but all-inclusive in His teaching.

    Genesis 15:5 Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

    Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant"



    Seed is Christ and all those in him, regardless of nationalistic membership or racial ancestry as Galatians and Romans confirms.

    Stars are not divided and segregated into groups; it is all stars across the sky, symbolizing all of those numbered as the results of the covenant.

    The promise to Abraham, at it's basic tenant, was Jesus Christ.
    Not land.
    Not governments.
    Not religions.
    Not kingdoms.

    People spanning all of these, as the sands of the seas, who would benefit from Jesus Christ, indiscrimantently.
    I'm not arguing against unity. One can have unity among nations. That really hasn't been the case in this age. There have been coalitions, but often coalitions against coalitions. Jesus said that would happen in his own time. There would be nations vs. nations, and kingdoms vs. kingdoms. God said this--not me.

    As to the plurality of nations, God said this--not me. If it was important for God, then it's important for me also. I will not degrade what God said by pitting one thing He said against another thing He said. They are *both* true!

  3. #63
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    Re: the whole nation will be saved

    Quote Originally Posted by m'lo goy View Post
    As regards the gospel,
    they (who is "they")?
    are enemies of God for
    your (who is "your")?
    sake.

    But as regards election,
    they
    are beloved
    for the sake of their forefathers.
    For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

    Just as
    you
    were at one time disobedient to God
    but now have received mercy because of
    their
    disobedience,

    so
    they
    too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to
    you
    they
    also may receive mercy.

    For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

    And in this way
    all
    Israel will be saved, as it is written,
    The Deliverer will come from Zion,
    he will banish ungodliness from Jacob
    (Romans 11:28-32, 26)

    From the beginning of chapter 9, Paul is making a clear distinction between the natural seed of Abraham and the Gentiles. The above passage would make no sense (it would be totally illogical) if Paul was speaking only of those who were saved in Christ then, and of those who are now saved in Christ.

    For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
    So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

    Just as
    you
    were at one time disobedient to God
    but now have received mercy because of
    their
    disobedience,

    so
    they
    too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to
    you
    they
    also may receive mercy.

    (Romans 9:15-16; 11: 30-32)

    Given the absolutely clear distinction Paul makes between the natural unbelieving seed of Abraham and the believing Gentiles from chapter 9 onwards, It is totally illogical to read Romans 11:30-31 in any other way but to be referring to the same groups of people:

    "Just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,
    so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may receive mercy.
    (Romans 11:30-31])

    Paul states this is mystery (Rom 11:25).

    Methinks Paul knew that the son who served his father all the years would not enjoy the prodigal son receiving mercy, when the time comes.

    It's a pride thing, I think - because we think we are the prodigal son.

    Actually, it's the unbelieving natural seed of Abraham.
    I fail to see your point? Of course Paul is contrasting unbelieving Israel with the believing Church. So what?

  4. #64
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    Dec 2016
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    Re: the whole nation will be saved

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Sukkot, or the wandering in the wilderness, dwelling in booths; ended when the true tabernacle came; and tabernacled with us.
    When Christ came, the living waters flowed from Jerusalem; the true living waters, the Holy Spirit; that brought all people together and granted access to the true Jerusalem regardless of where they were. The true temple of God, Christ, now provides the living water to all who dwell in Him.


    As for the Day of Atonement fulfillment, I also believe it has been fulfilled.

    Salvation has come to all israel, and all of israel's children from every generation since Christ's sacrifice.

    Peter told us this in Acts chapter 2, that it was for 'all the house of Israel' and ' all your children'.

    Jesus fulfilled the day of atonement when He, hanging on the cross said, "IT IS FINISHED".

    If Jesus dying on the cross for the atonement of all the sins of all humans who ever lived, is not the day of atonement being fulfilled, it will never be fulfilled.

    As for Feast of Trumpets, it has the most likelihood of still being a future fulfillment; with all of the prophecies still outstand of the trumpets that sound at Christ's second Advent in Matthew 24:31, I Thessalonians 4:17, I Corinthians 15:23, and Revelation 11:15.
    I agree with this about the Holy Spirit. I guess to me that was the fulfillment of Pentecost though not Tabernacles. Jesus said his time was not yet for tabernacles Joh 7:8 I believe His time comes in the MK when He is actually here. So you are seeing things spiritual, and I am expecting things physical.

    Thank you for all the scriptures, to me they are talking about the spirit of things and what we have in the Spirit, In John 7:39 He even said he spoke of the spirit which was yet to come. I do see Jesus in all the feasts as you mention and don't think Jesus has to be a sacrifice again, so I know what you mean on Atonement and agree with that. The feasts had other meanings besides a sacrifice. I just see the last 3 as still to be fulfilled and other prophecies being fulfilled with them, so like this:

    I agree with you on Trumpets.

    Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:27) – Many believe this prophetically points to the day of the Second Coming of Jesus when He will return to earth. That will be the Day of Atonement for the Jewish remnant when they "look upon Him whom they have pierced," repent of their sins, and receive Him as their Messiah (Zechariah 12:10 and Romans 11:1-6, 25-36).

    I think the Day of Atonement will be the day Israel is saved and accept their messiah, the day Jesus appears. This is the day Israel will accept the sacrifice of the Lord.

    Tabernacles or Booths (Leviticus 23:34) – This feast day points to the Lord's promise that He will once again “tabernacle” with His people when He returns to reign over all the world (Micah 4:1-7).

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Sukkot, or the wandering in the wilderness, dwelling in booths; ended when the true tabernacle came; and tabernacled with us.
    When Christ came, the living waters flowed from Jerusalem; the true living waters, the Holy Spirit; that brought all people together and granted access to the true Jerusalem regardless of where they were. The true temple of God, Christ, now provides the living water to all who dwell in Him.


    As for the Day of Atonement fulfillment, I also believe it has been fulfilled.

    Salvation has come to all israel, and all of israel's children from every generation since Christ's sacrifice.

    Peter told us this in Acts chapter 2, that it was for 'all the house of Israel' and ' all your children'.

    Jesus fulfilled the day of atonement when He, hanging on the cross said, "IT IS FINISHED".

    If Jesus dying on the cross for the atonement of all the sins of all humans who ever lived, is not the day of atonement being fulfilled, it will never be fulfilled.

    As for Feast of Trumpets, it has the most likelihood of still being a future fulfillment; with all of the prophecies still outstand of the trumpets that sound at Christ's second Advent in Matthew 24:31, I Thessalonians 4:17, I Corinthians 15:23, and Revelation 11:15.
    I agree with this about the Holy Spirit. I guess to me that was the fulfillment of Pentecost though not Tabernacles. Jesus said his time was not yet for tabernacles Joh 7:8 I believe His time comes in the MK when He is actually here. So you are seeing things spiritual, and I am expecting things physical.

    Thank you for all the scriptures, to me they are talking about the spirit of things and what we have in the Spirit, In John 7:39 He even said he spoke of the spirit which was yet to come. I do see Jesus in all the feasts as you mention and don't think Jesus has to be a sacrifice again, so I know what you mean on Atonement and agree with that. The feasts had other meanings besides a sacrifice. I just see the last 3 as still to be fulfilled and other prophecies being fulfilled with them, so like this:

    I agree with you on Trumpets.

    Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:27) – Many believe this prophetically points to the day of the Second Coming of Jesus when He will return to earth. That will be the Day of Atonement for the Jewish remnant when they "look upon Him whom they have pierced," repent of their sins, and receive Him as their Messiah (Zechariah 12:10 and Romans 11:1-6, 25-36).

    I think the Day of Atonement will be the day Israel is saved and accept their messiah, the day Jesus appears. This is the day Israel will accept the sacrifice of the Lord.

    Tabernacles or Booths (Leviticus 23:34) – This feast day points to the Lord's promise that He will once again “tabernacle” with His people when He returns to reign over all the world (Micah 4:1-7).

  5. #65
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    Cool Re: the whole nation will be saved

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Sukkot, or the wandering in the wilderness, dwelling in booths; ended when the true tabernacle came; and tabernacled with us.
    When Christ came, the living waters flowed from Jerusalem; the true living waters, the Holy Spirit; that brought all people together and granted access to the true Jerusalem regardless of where they were. The true temple of God, Christ, now provides the living water to all who dwell in Him.



    John 4:2 "Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. "

    John 7:2" Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand. In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive"



    Here is the permanent dwelling now for all who believe; by Christ and His Spirit; showing the fulfillment and end of the wandering, booths, and search for indwelling.

    "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20

    "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. " Matt 28:20

    "for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. " Hebrews 13:5

    "I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever" John 14:16

    "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." John 6:56

    "ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. " II Corinthians 6:16

    "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? " I Corinthians 3:16

    "If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. " I John 4:12

    "For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever. Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth" II John 1:2




    As for the Day of Atonement fulfillment, I also believe it has been fulfilled.

    Salvation has come to all israel, and all of israel's children from every generation since Christ's sacrifice.

    Peter told us this in Acts chapter 2, that it was for 'all the house of Israel' and ' all your children'.

    Jesus fulfilled the day of atonement when He, hanging on the cross said, "IT IS FINISHED".

    If Jesus dying on the cross for the atonement of all the sins of all humans who ever lived, is not the day of atonement being fulfilled, it will never be fulfilled.

    Paul also confirms this, when writing to the people in Rome, stated: "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. " Romans 5:8

    As for Feast of Trumpets, it has the most likelihood of still being a future fulfillment; with all of the prophecies still outstand of the trumpets that sound at Christ's second Advent in Matthew 24:31, I Thessalonians 4:17, I Corinthians 15:23, and Revelation 11:15.
    You are in your own little world are you not? You think God is going fulfill the feast pictures out of order and that the living water is not literal. Everything must have a spiritual only fulfillment. What are you going to do when a physical tribulation falls upon the world and shatters your little spirit world
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

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