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Thread: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

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    The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    I have come to understand the 70 weeks are not continuous and besides the break between the 7 and 62 there is also a break between the 69th and 70th week as indicated by Daniel. Is there a reason why Daniel separate the weeks the way he does?

    Though despite the masses I was always skeptical about translating weeks to weeks of years. So my adjusted understanding of the prophesy does not change the fact that the 70 weeks are 490 DAYS nor these other beliefs.

    70 Weeks = 490 Days

    The 70th week = Feast of Tabernacles

    The term "cut off" did not represent crucifixion

    Note however to prove this out I did not look at history rather had to look into the future. So I tried to come up with a future 490 period, a period in which I knew had to fit between Jewish holidays and end with Tabernacles. However close I could not and came up short the closest would be 489 days between Pentecost and the end of Tabernacles. Very close but not exact AND I was negating the division between 7 and 62 weeks which there was not between these Holidays. I always leaned to the fact that the only 7 week period in scripture was the time between Passover and Pentecost.

    The 7 weeks of the prophesy is no doubt the time between Passover and Pentecost.

    So always maintaining the belief that the 70 weeks was a continuous time with no breaks which did not compute I had to focus on this 7 week period and go from there. The problem I confronted was that adding 62 weeks to the 7 weeks after Passover just came into the middle of a month, a middle of nowhere that I thought it needed. So then the only solution is that the 70 weeks are NOT continuous.

    The 70 weeks are NOT a continuous time frame

    What confirmed my thought was first the 7 weeks between Passover and Pentecost does not include the actual day of Passover. So then is it possible the prophesy then would not include the actual day of Pentecost AND is this the reason for Daniel to state the 69 weeks separated into 7 and 62 weeks. Between the 7 and 62 is the day of Pentecost. This will become important for the total calculation.

    The reason for the 69 weeks divided into 7 and 62 is that the day of Pentecost is between and not counted.

    Ok, so I still had the 69th week landing in the middle of nowhere and far away from Tabernacles So I started to do future date calculations of days between Passover to the end of Tabernacles. The totals were common to 538 days or every few years it was 567 days. Knowing that Passover day was not counted and realizing the Pentecost was to be omitted I subtracted two days to come up with 536 or 565 days. Then the alarm bell rang as there was a biblical time frame which matched for there are 75 days between 565 - 490 days. The 75 days is the time between 1260 the completion of the reign of the second beast and Christ's return on the 1335th day. So now I incorporated the 75 days into the 70 week prophesy.

    Passover ---- 7 weeks ---- Pentecost ---- 62 weeks + 75 days (including one week) ---- End of the Feast of Tabernacles = 565 days (not to include the actual day of Pentecost again hence the division 7/62).

    Now with the prior understanding that the term Messiah being "cut off" does not represent the time of the crucifixion but rather a time in which Christ will be cut off from the inhabitants of the world whereby they will search for these days but will not be able to be found. The door has been shut for them the remainder of these days. God however will confirm his previous Abrahamic Covenant to the promised remnant of Israel for the last week, the FOT.

    Passover ---- 7 weeks ---- Pentecost ---- 62 weeks (Messiah cut off 69th week also the 1260th day) ---- 75 days ---- End of the Feast of Tabernacles = the end of the 70th week also the 1335th day.

    The period between the time Messiah is cut off till Tabernacles is not upon thy people Israel. The remnant of Israel is not found upon the earth as with the completion of the 69th week (1260th day) they have been overcome thru war and killed off by the beast and are now upon Mt. Zion with Christ waiting their return with him (Rev 14.) which will occur on the 1335th day.

    After the period in which the Messiah is cut off up till the last week of Tabernacles is not upon thy people Israel nor part of the 70 weeks. They are no longer upon the earth.

    As for the future year which has a total calculation of 567 (minus 2) between Passover and the following end of Tabernacles are many. However there would only be a couple of possibilities if you took that the church age is a 2000 year period from the year of the death of Christ which in itself is uncertain. The goal here is not to pin point the year in which Christ shall return but to align the understanding of the 70 weeks to future BIBLICAL events thus convincing the reader.


    God Bless.

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Interesting attempt.

    Two things to note.
    The word often translated weeks, simply means 7s. Therefore it can mean 7 days or 7 months or 7 years.
    Related to this of course is the Sabbath day which is the 7th day - which is holy.

    שְׁבֻעָה*** שָׁבֻעַ*** שָׁבוּעַ
    shâbûa‛*** shâbûa‛*** shebû‛âh
    shaw-boo'-ah, shaw-boo'-ah, sheb-oo-aw'
    Properly passive participle of H7650 as a denominative of H7651; literally sevened, that is, a week (specifically of years): - seven, week

    In Dan 9:24 it is šāḇu‘m
    שָׁבֻעִ֨ים

    In Gen 2:1 we have
    H7637
    שְׁבִעִי*** שְׁבִיעִי
    shebı̂y‛ı̂y*** shebi‛ı̂y
    sheb-ee-ee', sheb-ee-ee'
    Ordinal from H7657; seventh: - seventh (time).

    Which is exactly:
    הַשְּׁבִיעִ֔י

    I hope you see the word form is the same base.
    sh b ua in both.
    And for Sabbath it is:
    שַׁבַּ֤ת

    sh b t

    The key verse to look at though is found in Leviticus 25 whihc speaks of the Sabbath of years and the Jubilee.
    Check verse 2, 4 and 8.
    In verse two the period of 7 years is called Sabbath EXACTLY the same as that used elsewhere for a Sabbath of days.
    In verse 4 the same thing. In other there is NO distinguishing in scripture between 7 days and 7 years when it is spoken of as a group of 7.
    In verse 8 the collective is called Sh b t t. So a Sabbath of Sabbaths.

    So there is no issue in scripture for the length of time to be years and not days as the same words are used for both.

    The second point is that we are TOLD there is a split between each block of weeks.
    So we are told the 7 weeks and what happens, the 62 weeks and what happens and the 1 week and what happens.
    The key therefore to understanding it is grasping what we are told occurs in each block of 7 and then seeing how that applies.
    We are told the answer in part in scripture.

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I have come to understand the 70 weeks are not continuous and besides the break between the 7 and 62 there is also a break between the 69th and 70th week as indicated by Daniel. Is there a reason why Daniel separate the weeks the way he does?

    Though despite the masses I was always skeptical about translating weeks to weeks of years. So my adjusted understanding of the prophesy does not change the fact that the 70 weeks are 490 DAYS nor these other beliefs.

    70 Weeks = 490 Days

    The 70th week = Feast of Tabernacles

    The term "cut off" did not represent crucifixion

    Note however to prove this out I did not look at history rather had to look into the future. So I tried to come up with a future 490 period, a period in which I knew had to fit between Jewish holidays and end with Tabernacles. However close I could not and came up short the closest would be 489 days between Pentecost and the end of Tabernacles. Very close but not exact AND I was negating the division between 7 and 62 weeks which there was not between these Holidays. I always leaned to the fact that the only 7 week period in scripture was the time between Passover and Pentecost.

    The 7 weeks of the prophesy is no doubt the time between Passover and Pentecost.

    So always maintaining the belief that the 70 weeks was a continuous time with no breaks which did not compute I had to focus on this 7 week period and go from there. The problem I confronted was that adding 62 weeks to the 7 weeks after Passover just came into the middle of a month, a middle of nowhere that I thought it needed. So then the only solution is that the 70 weeks are NOT continuous.

    The 70 weeks are NOT a continuous time frame

    What confirmed my thought was first the 7 weeks between Passover and Pentecost does not include the actual day of Passover. So then is it possible the prophesy then would not include the actual day of Pentecost AND is this the reason for Daniel to state the 69 weeks separated into 7 and 62 weeks. Between the 7 and 62 is the day of Pentecost. This will become important for the total calculation.

    The reason for the 69 weeks divided into 7 and 62 is that the day of Pentecost is between and not counted.

    Ok, so I still had the 69th week landing in the middle of nowhere and far away from Tabernacles So I started to do future date calculations of days between Passover to the end of Tabernacles. The totals were common to 538 days or every few years it was 567 days. Knowing that Passover day was not counted and realizing the Pentecost was to be omitted I subtracted two days to come up with 536 or 565 days. Then the alarm bell rang as there was a biblical time frame which matched for there are 75 days between 565 - 490 days. The 75 days is the time between 1260 the completion of the reign of the second beast and Christ's return on the 1335th day. So now I incorporated the 75 days into the 70 week prophesy.

    Passover ---- 7 weeks ---- Pentecost ---- 62 weeks + 75 days ---- End of the Feast of Tabernacles = 565 days (not to include the actual day of Pentecost again hence the division 7/62).

    Now with the prior understanding that the term Messiah being "cut off" does not represent the time of the crucifixion but rather a time in which Christ will be cut off from the inhabitants of the world whereby they will search for these days but will not be able to be found. The door has been shut for them the remainder of these days. God however will confirm his previous Abrahamic Covenant to the promised remnant of Israel for the last week, the FOT.

    Passover ---- 7 weeks ---- Pentecost ---- 62 weeks (Messiah cut off 69th week also the 1260th day) ---- 75 days ---- End of the Feast of Tabernacles = the end of the 70th week also the 1335th day.

    The period between the time Messiah is cut off till Tabernacles is not upon thy people Israel. The remnant of Israel is not found upon the earth as with the completion of the 69th week (1260th day) they have been overcome thru war and killed off by the beast and are now upon Mt. Zion with Christ waiting their return with him (Rev 14.) which will occur on the 1335th day.

    After the period in which the Messiah is cut off up till the last week of Tabernacles is not upon thy people Israel nor part of the 70 weeks. They are no longer upon the earth.

    As for the future year which has a total calculation of 567 (minus 2) between Passover and the following end of Pentecost are many. However there would only be a couple of possibilities if you took that the church age is a 2000 year period from the year of the death of Christ which in itself is uncertain. The goal here is not to pin point the year in which Christ shall return but to align the understanding of the 70 weeks to future BIBLICAL events thus convincing the reader.


    God Bless.
    The key to the right understanding of obscure passages in scripture lies in 2 Peter 1:20. "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." The Greek word "private" is mostly translated elsewhere as "one's own". It also means "pertaining to one's self". Now, Daniel twice called a "prophet" by scripture (Matt.24:15; Mk.13:14) and so we must search scripture to get the meaning of "Day" in prophecy. And we do not have to search long. In Numbers 14:34 God's prophecy concerning Israel's unbelief sets forth a "DAY for a YEAR. It reads; "After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise." This confirmed in other prophecy. In Ezekiel the prophet's writing we learn; "And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year" (Ezek.4:6). Isaiah 34:8 also alludes to this; "For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion."

    Thus, your personal beliefs must be set aside and scripture applied to scripture.

    The 70 "sevens" of Daniel are divided into 7, 62 and 1. The context already gives the divisions:
    1. The first division pf 7 "sevens" start with a decree to build the city, and end with the building complete
    2. The second division of 62 "sevens" ends with the death of Messiah - a "consecrated person"
    3. The third division is not problematic. A "gap" is clearly indicated because the ethnicity of the future "prince" is defined by the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome. Thus, at very least there would have been a 40 year gap. But we history on our side to estimate that this third division of 1 "seven" has not yet occurred. It is connected with a Roman prince strengthening a Covenant which contains the daily oblation. And this in turn is connected with the Temple. Since there is no Temple yet, the 70th "seven" is still future.

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The 70 "sevens" of Daniel are divided into 7, 62 and 1. The context already gives the divisions:
    1. The first division pf 7 "sevens" start with a decree to build the city, and end with the building complete
    2. The second division of 62 "sevens" ends with the death of Messiah - a "consecrated person"
    3. The third division is not problematic. A "gap" is clearly indicated because the ethnicity of the future "prince" is defined by the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome. Thus, at very least there would have been a 40 year gap. But we history on our side to estimate that this third division of 1 "seven" has not yet occurred. It is connected with a Roman prince strengthening a Covenant which contains the daily oblation. And this in turn is connected with the Temple. Since there is no Temple yet, the 70th "seven" is still future.
    We differ on understanding the division:
    The first division of sevens is clearly stated as FROM the Word TO an Anointed one. This is NOT about the building work itself, but for the one who will declare the restoration.
    The second division then starts with the building work complete and ends with an Anointed one. This is the Anointed one who is to be cut off AFTER the 62 weeks.
    The third division then starts with one who makes a covenant with many and who stops sacrifice and offerings, and ends with the coming of an Anointed one who desolates the desolator.

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    We differ on understanding the division:
    The first division of sevens is clearly stated as FROM the Word TO an Anointed one. This is NOT about the building work itself, but for the one who will declare the restoration.
    The second division then starts with the building work complete and ends with an Anointed one. This is the Anointed one who is to be cut off AFTER the 62 weeks.
    The third division then starts with one who makes a covenant with many and who stops sacrifice and offerings, and ends with the coming of an Anointed one who desolates the desolator.
    Thanks for your input. I can see your thinking. But I would like to see which verse you used to see, "the one who will declare the restoration". My understanding is that it is very much about the building. The one single thing that made Israel unique among the nations was that God dwelt among them. His House, the Temple is central to this. And the City is central, not only to Israel's sovereignty, but it is the City from which universal rule will go out of when Emmanuel dwells in it. The Wall of the city was crucial to the separation of Israel from the other and profane nations. Added to this all, was not the Temple that the City and Wall would protect, the Temple that would show "greater glory" than Solomon's (Haggai 2:3-9)?

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Can't agree to this for several reason.
    1) It doesn't make rational sense. To say something will be done in X number of weeks does not mean something will be done in X + Y weeks, unless Y = 0.
    2) The separation of 70 weeks into different sections does not imply they are non-consecutive. The idea of a non-continuous 70 Weeks, again, is irrational. Why not just say "in 70 + Weeks something will be done?"
    3) The Church Fathers interpreted this as a continuous period of time. Why try to out-think those who have gone before us? Why come up with modern remedies that elevate us above every other thinker in history?

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    so we must search scripture to get the meaning of "Day" in prophecy. And we do not have to search long. In Numbers 14:34 God's prophecy concerning Israel's unbelief sets forth a "DAY for a YEAR. It reads; "After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise." This confirmed in other prophecy. In Ezekiel the prophet's writing we learn; "And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year" (Ezek.4:6). Isaiah 34:8 also alludes to this; "For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion."
    These prophecies to take a year for a day were specific and spelled out. We are NOT and against all exergies (hate that word) to then apply this to whatever other prophecy we desire. Daniel does not state to do such and it is with GREAT error and disregard to all rules of interpretation that it has been done and accepted.

    The key to the right understanding of obscure passages in scripture lies in 2 Peter 1:20. "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." The Greek word "private" is mostly translated elsewhere as "one's own". It also means "pertaining to one's self". Now, Daniel twice called a "prophet" by scripture (Matt.24:15; Mk.13:14)

    Thus, your personal beliefs must be set aside and scripture applied to scripture.
    You say private interpretation as I am one. The tragedy is that private interpretation has gripped the masses pertaining this prophesy and many others. Prophesy has NOT been coined by the masses my friend.

    The 70 "sevens" of Daniel are divided into 7, 62 and 1. The context already gives the divisions:
    1. The first division pf 7 "sevens" start with a decree to build the city, and end with the building complete
    2. The second division of 62 "sevens" ends with the death of Messiah - a "consecrated person"
    3. The third division is not problematic. A "gap" is clearly indicated because the ethnicity of the future "prince" is defined by the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome. Thus, at very least there would have been a 40 year gap. But we history on our side to estimate that this third division of 1 "seven" has not yet occurred. It is connected with a Roman prince strengthening a Covenant which contains the daily oblation. And this in turn is connected with the Temple. Since there is no Temple yet, the 70th "seven" is still future.
    And the masses cant even all agree on historical events.

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Can't agree to this for several reason.
    1) It doesn't make rational sense. To say something will be done in X number of weeks does not mean something will be done in X + Y weeks, unless Y = 0.

    The idea of a non-continuous 70 Weeks, again, is irrational. Why not just say "in 70 + Weeks something will be done?"
    Would that not be the case if it stated just X "seventy weeks" instead of dividing up into 7/62/1 X+Y+Z? Why not just say 70 and will be done? Much easier.

    3) The Church Fathers interpreted this as a continuous period of time.
    So who or what makes them church fathers? Because they spoke out early on topics, now which seminaries reguard? And I would not all thought of it as a continuous time I am sure there were some which did not. Though the point is moot. Even if they all were in one accord the fact they were closer in time frame than us does not make their understanding correct. Very quickly heresies thereafter entered and became accepted. Satan works quickly.

    Why try to out-think those who have gone before us?
    I want to study to show thyself not themselves approved.

    Following others is how errors can be replicated. Now if I studied and then aligned with the "church fathers" great. However the "church fathers" were all over the board on a variety of issues.

    Why come up with modern remedies that elevate us above every other thinker in history?
    Ok so I am just to accept what everyone thinks? I hope you do not. Do you think every biblical prophesy has been coined? Time can allow for a clearer vision. Example is a computer which now can make searching in seconds were it may have taken a life time to gather the pieces.

    "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased".

    Was not Daniel even told to seal up the vision ie understanding of his book to the time of the end?

    But somehow everyone knew the understanding thousands of years ago?

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    A different view of the 70 weeks

    The vision of the angle Gabriel and the prophecy of the 70 weeks were an answer to Daniels prayer in Daniel 9:4-19. Daniels is praying to God and asking for mercy as he knew that the prophet Jeremiah had prophesied that the captivity would last for 70 years. The law of Moses states that they need to repent and turn back to God but the 70 years was almost up and the Jews were still not repenting. We see in the verses below that Daniel is pleading to God for mercy.

    Daniel 9:17-19
    17 “Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. 18 Give ear, our God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. 19 Lord, listen! Lord, forgive! Lord, hear and act! For your sake, my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name.”

    The prophecy given by the angel Gabriel

    Daniel 9:24-27
    24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

    The 70 years would become 70 weeks of prophecy of foreign control. The Jews would go back and rebuild Jerusalem but not as free people but under foreign control.

    The 70 weeks are 490 years of prophecy.

    The command by the angel Gabriel is to know and understand the prophecy. The decree would trigger the understanding of the time line of the vision. Thus the decree of king Cyrus is the key to know and understand the 70 weeks. The decree of king Cyrus gives us a concrete date and point in time of the 70 weeks.

    Below are the time lines of each set of weeks

    605 B.C. The start of the 70 weeks Daniel and the Jews are taken into captivity. (time goes backwards from the time of Daniel vision)

    587 B.C. Jerusalem is destroyed by Babylon the start of the 7 weeks (runs parallel to some of the 62 weeks)

    170/1 B.C. Onias 3rd is murdered (cut off and has nothing) the second anointed one the last of the Zadokite priesthood which was the start of the 70th week.

    538 B.C. King Cyrus issues a decree to go and rebuild Jerusalem and Joshua (the first anointed one who was to come) goes back to rebuild Jerusalem. This is end of the 7 weeks which was 49 years after 587 B.C. when Jerusalem was destroyed.


    167 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th desecrates the temple way through the 70th week. The abomination that caused desolation.

    164/3 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th dies and the temple sacrifice is reestablished the end of the 70th week. (the end is poured out on him)

    War continued during and until the end of the 70th week

    The purposes of the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24 were fulfilled by the Jews who remained loyal to God and resisted apostasy.

    605 B.C.-171 B.C. 62 weeks or 434 years

    587 B.C.-538 B.C. 7 weeks or 49 years

    170/1 B.C.-164/3 B.C. 70th week or 7 years

    Some versions of the bible use the word Messiah instead of the anointed one but that was a mistake and not the original meaning.

    Below are three main points to show that Jesus wasn't any part of the prophecy of the 70 weeks

    1
    Some people think that the 70 weeks start in 445 BC, but this is 160 years after 605 B.C. when the Jews were taken into captivity. If this was the case then the curse of the covenant would not come into effect on those who did not repent-in 535 B.C. when Jeremiah's 70 years prophecy expired. Instead it would come their grandchildren and great grandchildren which would violate the principal of the Law of Moses that children pay the price for their parents and grandparents sins.

    2
    It says that the anointed one will come after 62 & 7 weeks but he is cut off after 62 weeks. How can the anointed one if it is one person come 49 years after he is cut off? This proves that it is two different people. If it is Jesus how could He come 49 years after he dies?

    3
    Not once in the bible did Jesus or any of the new testament writers ever claim that Jesus fulfilled any parts of the 70 weeks. This would not be missed and if it was Jesus it would prove who Jesus is to the Jews Especially in the book of Matthew. Thus Jesus is not either of the anointed ones in the prophecy of the 70 weeks.

    This time line takes away the possibility of a future 70th week or even a future seven year tribulation.

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Would that not be the case if it stated just X "seventy weeks" instead of dividing up into 7/62/1 X+Y+Z? Why not just say 70 and will be done? Much easier.
    The purpose is not to make something easier, but more rational. The 70 Weeks Prophecy is complex, and I'm not glossing over that. It is indeed separated into 3 parts, 7 weeks, 62 weeks, and the final week. Together they comprise a 70 Week period. Again, it is not rational to say something important is going to happen after 70 Weeks, and then go on to insert more time periods, making the 70 Week wait actually much longer in time.

    It may be complex, but not irrational, to say that a 70 Week consecutive period has 3 parts, with distinctions associated with each part. This is as common as Plays, in which there are 3 Acts. Each Act has its own meaning. And yet the 3 Acts comprise a single Play, not 2 or 3 of them!

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    So who or what makes them church fathers? Because they spoke out early on topics, now which seminaries reguard? And I would not all thought of it as a continuous time I am sure there were some which did not. Though the point is moot. Even if they all were in one accord the fact they were closer in time frame than us does not make their understanding correct. Very quickly heresies thereafter entered and became accepted. Satan works quickly.
    If you read some of the Church Fathers I think you would have to respect them. They think very much like you or me. What makes them special is they began the history of the Church, and suffered consequences for it. And God used them to lay down an important foundation for Church History, even though they weren't perfect. Neither are we perfect, and yet we're supposed to consider one another better than ourselves!

    But you're right. They didn't all see the 70 Weeks as continuous. There were Irenaeus and Hippolytus, and perhaps a few more, who saw the 70th Week as future, involving Antichrist. Most of the Church Fathers, however, saw the 70 Weeks as a continuous period leading to Christ. This was also significant to them in view of the fact the Jewish form of religion would be abandoned by God, as even their temple would be destroyed. This is, I believe, the prophecy of the "abomination of desolation." It was, I believe, the Roman Army's incursion into the holy places of Jerusalem.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    I want to study to show thyself not themselves approved.
    You're not showing yourself approved if you reject all the learning that has gone before you. The Scriptures are not the only witnesses to the truths of God. The historic Church is part of that testimony, although I agree we do need to study the rule by which we measure the truth. And that is the Scriptures.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    Following others is how errors can be replicated. Now if I studied and then aligned with the "church fathers" great. However the "church fathers" were all over the board on a variety of issues.
    Every time you consult a concordance or a lexicon you're benefiting from Christians who have preceded you. To ignore the work of great theologians is silly, in my view. Whether they are right or wrong, they most certainly are going to be an overall benefit. You just need to separate out the good from the bad. That's true of all of us!

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    Ok so I am just to accept what everyone thinks? I hope you do not. Do you think every biblical prophesy has been coined? Time can allow for a clearer vision. Example is a computer which now can make searching in seconds were it may have taken a life time to gather the pieces.

    "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased".

    Was not Daniel even told to seal up the vision ie understanding of his book to the time of the end?

    But somehow everyone knew the understanding thousands of years ago?
    Daniel was told not to focus too much on things that did not concern his own time. God did not reserve the key to understanding the Bible for you to come along or for me to come along. If the Holy Spirit was in operation when the Scriptures were written, then they had to minister to people throughout Church history. Otherwise, God failed to communicate His word to people. And that's not possible. No, the key to keeping balanced in biblical interpretation is not trying to be creative in our interpretations. It is in discerning the truths in those who have gone before.

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Again, it is not rational to say something important is going to happen after 70 Weeks,
    I stated that nothing happens after the 70th week.
    and then go on to insert more time periods, making the 70 Week wait actually much longer in time.
    Yes I inserted days between the 69th week and the 70th. Note many insert unknown years yet to be from Christ's death till his return.

    My insertion is backed by scripture making the time period after the 69th week a total of 75 days 1260th day = the 69th week + 75 days = 1335th day end of 70th week.

    It may be complex, but not irrational, to say that a 70 Week consecutive period has 3 parts,
    This is actually how I last saw it. I even started a thread stating the 70 weeks were continuous but all future.

    But you're right. They didn't all see the 70 Weeks as continuous. There were Irenaeus and Hippolytus, and perhaps a few more, who saw the 70th Week as future, involving Antichrist. Most of the Church Fathers, however, saw the 70 Weeks as a continuous period leading to Christ. This was also significant to them in view of the fact the Jewish form of religion would be abandoned by God, as even their temple would be destroyed. This is, I believe, the prophecy of the "abomination of desolation." It was, I believe, the Roman Army's incursion into the holy places of Jerusalem.
    I think there are three main thoughts. (I might actually have been the only one on #3 as well, who knows?)

    1. That all the 70 weeks were continuous and past which you subscribe.
    2. That all 70 weeks are not continuous with 69 weeks past and one week yet to be. My initial subscription as a new Christian babe many years ago..
    3. All 70 weeks are continuous and future. My latest held belief prior to now.

    After continued study I progressed to #4.

    4. All 70 weeks are future but not continuous.

    You're not showing yourself approved if you reject all the learning that has gone before you. The Scriptures are not the only witnesses to the truths of God. The historic Church is part of that testimony, although I agree we do need to study the rule by which we measure the truth. And that is the Scriptures.

    Every time you consult a concordance or a lexicon you're benefiting from Christians who have preceded you. To ignore the work of great theologians is silly, in my view. Whether they are right or wrong, they most certainly are going to be an overall benefit. You just need to separate out the good from the bad. That's true of all of us!
    As noted above you see I have had different understandings as at times aligning myself with others while continually building approval with scriptures over the years.

    Thanks for your reply.

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Yes I inserted days between the 69th week and the 70th. Note many insert unknown years yet to be from Christ's death till his return.
    Yes, I don't agree with them. I think this prophecy--the prophecy of the 70 Weeks--had to do with the 1st Coming of Christ--not the 2nd Coming! So I can see why some people get confused about this. There were listed 6 things that I believe Christ did, which were to come to pass by the end of the 70th Week. These were things that I believe Christ accomplished at his 1st Coming. And the "abomination of desolation," namely the Roman Army, followed immediately after the 70 Weeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    My insertion is backed by scripture making the time period after the 69th week a total of 75 days 1260th day = the 69th week + 75 days = 1335th day end of 70th week.
    I see. I've viewed the 1290 and 1335 days as a different prophecy, associated with Antiochus 4. So I can see how you want to blend this period of time with the 70 Weeks, right or wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    This is actually how I last saw it. I even started a thread stating the 70 weeks were continuous but all future.
    Well, at least we used to be agree on the *continuous* part!

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    I think there are three main thoughts. (I might actually have been the only one on #3 as well, who knows?)

    1. That all the 70 weeks were continuous and past which you subscribe.
    2. That all 70 weeks are not continuous with 69 weeks past and one week yet to be. My initial subscription as a new Christian babe many years ago..
    3. All 70 weeks are continuous and future. My latest held belief prior to now.

    After continued study I progressed to #4.

    4. All 70 weeks are future but not continuous.
    Yea, I've held to a couple of these at one time or another. I used to hold to the future Week, as you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    As noted above you see I have had different understandings as at times aligning myself with others while continually building approval with scriptures over the years.

    Thanks for your reply.
    Absolutely, I appreciate all views.

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Can't agree to this for several reason.
    1) It doesn't make rational sense. To say something will be done in X number of weeks does not mean something will be done in X + Y weeks, unless Y = 0.
    2) The separation of 70 weeks into different sections does not imply they are non-consecutive. The idea of a non-continuous 70 Weeks, again, is irrational. Why not just say "in 70 + Weeks something will be done?"
    3) The Church Fathers interpreted this as a continuous period of time. Why try to out-think those who have gone before us? Why come up with modern remedies that elevate us above every other thinker in history?
    1. The rationality that men desire is not guaranteed in the Bible. It must be taken into accounted that men's weak intellect will be taxed. So while we desire Newton's Laws to be rational and consistent when we fly aeroplanes, we are dealing with an infinitely greater mind than ours when it comes to scripture. The Triune God, eternity and the deity of the Man Jesus tax us beyond rationale. So do other things. But just because man's rational is offended does not make the matter untrue.
    2. The proof of all prophecy is in the fulfilling. Every prophecy that has been fulfilled to date, was fulfilled literally and accurately. At the end of the 69 seven the Messiah was cut off. If the 70th seven is consecutive we should have had the "Abomination of Desolation" three and a half years later. So that should settle whether God has ignored the time that Israel are in disgrace and under chastisement, or if the 70th seven was fulfilled literally and accurately.
    3. The Church Fathers that you follow MIGHT be wrong. There were those who disagreed. To suggest men to quit thinking because other men have done it for them sounds very suspicious. It is up to every individual to study the matter. Acts 17:11; "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    These prophecies to take a year for a day were specific and spelled out. We are NOT and against all exergies (hate that word) to then apply this to whatever other prophecy we desire. Daniel does not state to do such and it is with GREAT error and disregard to all rules of interpretation that it has been done and accepted.



    You say private interpretation as I am one. The tragedy is that private interpretation has gripped the masses pertaining this prophesy and many others. Prophesy has NOT been coined by the masses my friend.



    And the masses cant even all agree on historical events.
    Daniel was commanded to seal up his prophecy until the end. That is, a correct understanding of it was not always available. But now, at least we have history and (i) the order to rebuild Jerusalem, (ii) the completion of this, and (iii) the death of Messiah are fixed historical dates. Experts may disagree a year this way or that way, but the fact is that from the order to rebuild Jerusalem till the death of Christ is 483 years. To insert any other value to the sevens makes the mathematics absurd. That is what prophecy is all about. Looking forward it might not be clear, but it is HOPE for the faithful. Looking back it is a miracle of accurate prediction.

    And while allegory, or pictures, was/were, and is/are used in prophecy, they depict real events. Not the other way around. There is no literal prophecy that ends in allegory and pictures. Your calculation based on Feasts has no scriptural backing. What is more, will your (Feast) days end in Israel's, and their City's "finished transgression, end of sins, reconciliation for iniquity made, and everlasting righteousness brought in"? This is the reason for the seventy sevens. It has nothing to do with Feasts.

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    Re: The 70 non-continous weeks of Daniel - new information

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Thanks for your input. I can see your thinking. But I would like to see which verse you used to see, "the one who will declare the restoration". My understanding is that it is very much about the building.
    In order to build there is a NEED for restoration. You cannot build if there is no one to do the building.
    Isa 44:28* who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, and he shall fulfill all my purpose’; saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’ and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid.’”
    ...
    Isa 45:13* I have stirred him up in righteousness, and I will make all his ways level; he shall build my city and set my exiles free, not for price or reward,” says the LORD of hosts.

    And of course:
    Ezr 1:1* In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom and also put it in writing:

    What Word was that?
    Dan 9:2* in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.*

    This is your first clue.
    And here is the second:
    Dan 9:25* Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks.

    Notice it is RESTORE and BUILD, not only build. And it is from the Word going forth.

    The one single thing that made Israel unique among the nations was that God dwelt among them. His House, the Temple is central to this. And the City is central, not only to Israel's sovereignty, but it is the City from which universal rule will go out of when Emmanuel dwells in it. The Wall of the city was crucial to the separation of Israel from the other and profane nations. Added to this all, was not the Temple that the City and Wall would protect, the Temple that would show "greater glory" than Solomon's (Haggai 2:3-9)?
    Yes, and?

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