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Thread: Free Everything!

  1. #61
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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    What do you mean by "wealth hording" and "inequality"? There's nothing sinful about being wealthy. And why does it matter if someone is a billionaire or not?
    I don’t get it either. The most basic commandments include “do not covet” and “do not steal.” The moral relativism that justifies the theft of a rich person’s resources in the name of someone’s subjective “fairness” breaks God’s commamdments.




    Thank your government for not allowing bankruptcy. As for the CEO making a 15M bonus, what's wrong with that?



    We definitely need revival for sure.



    It is WAY past time for government to enforce our anti-trust laws. Large corporations are big because of bad government.

    BTW, just to state again, monopoly and ologarchy are not capitalism IMO. Socialism is much closer to corporatism than capitalism. (i.e. a big organization running things rather than competition being encouraged whether that big organization is a company or government the results can be very similar.)[/QUOTE]

    Crud....can’t edit....

    Crud can’t edit
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  2. #62
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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    This is actually a good write up.

    I’ve noticed that many M’s and Z’s operate strictly on emotion or peer pressure. I’m not sure that is pragmatic. My son is a Z, but, being autistic, he doesn’t blur moral lines or consider them in relativist terms. Although he was subjected to liberal indoctrination, he has an uncanny ability to filter it out and rarely comments on it. If you ask him if abortion is murder, he’ll look at you like you just asked him if shooting someone at random in the street is murder. Same with other moral standards that the Bible informs us are universal but neutralized and celebrated by depravity.

    But I don’t know why we are surprised that people who reject God or are agnostic to God have depraved minds.
    Right. I think not enough is made, in the Bible, of the importance of eldership. Young people lack brain development and obviously lack experience. Even if we mature quickly, and have bright intellects, able to early grasp complex ideas, we still sometimes lack the depth to make good decisions. Maybe that's why the young are so subject to emotionalism and peer pressure.

    I have no idea how young Adam and Eve were, but they certainly lacked any depth of experience in the occult! I know that politically it seemed necessary in my own generation (the US) to grant 18 year olds the right to vote, because they were being sent to die in a war that they had not voted to participate in! I remember because I was right in the middle of that. My brother was drafted, and I volunteered (pure stupidity on my part?).

    But in all reality, I remember that I held to hard and fast principles of morality, thinking I should support our president (Nixon), and not follow people like Jane Fonda! Communism was obviously evil, and Democracy more righteous. But I never thought much about Western colonialism and adventurism, and about how far we should go to stop the Commies. And how corrupt is our own Democracy? Is it worthwhile to promote that?

    Generally speaking, we should be able to trust our parents when we are young, assuming they are Christians, because they do have experience. And we should be able to trust our religious leaders, because God endows them with wisdom and honor when they are in the habit of obedience. Young people will be led by emotion and peer pressure if we don't provide an adequate counterbalance to the world's philosophes, promising Shangri-La if we follow them.

    As Christians we show something better than the world's philosophies. And in reality, I think it is Christianity itself that has enabled the world's philosophies in the West to work better. We should use Western liberties to promote Christianity, and not vice versa.

  3. #63
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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    What do you mean by "wealth hording" and "inequality"? There's nothing sinful about being wealthy. And why does it matter if someone is a billionaire or not?
    Let me attempt this again....

    Coveting and theft are against God’s laws. Anyone who believes it’s “fair” to steal from the rich or feel it’s inequality is breaking two of God’s 10 commandments. Plain and simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    As for capitalism, we don't have that today. We have oligarchy and monopoly.
    Solution: term limits for all politicians.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Thank your government for not allowing bankruptcy. As for the CEO making a 15M bonus, what's wrong with that?
    Yeah, who was that who coined that crazy phrase “too big to fail?” It’s also theft to steal my resources to bail these failures out.

    Again, breaking God’s commandments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post

    We definitely need revival for sure.
    Reminds me of judges again. When the consequences of people’s own inequity really imprisons them, they cry out to the Lord. Maybe then?


    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    It is WAY past time for government to enforce our anti-trust laws. Large corporations are big because of bad government.
    Suggested solution: term limits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    BTW, just to state again, monopoly and ologarchy are not capitalism IMO. Socialism is much closer to corporatism than capitalism. (i.e. a big organization running things rather than competition being encouraged whether that big organization is a company or government the results can be very similar.)
    Yes. This is true.

    Great post.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  4. #64
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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Right. I think not enough is made, in the Bible, of the importance of eldership. Young people lack brain development and obviously lack experience. Even if we mature quickly, and have bright intellects, able to early grasp complex ideas, we still sometimes lack the depth to make good decisions. Maybe that's why the young are so subject to emotionalism and peer pressure.
    “If you’re not a liberal at 20, you have no heart.”

    “If your not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”

    Sometimes the best way to teach a young person year old not to step in poop is to put them to work on a chicken farm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    I have no idea how young Adam and Eve were, but they certainly lacked any depth of experience in the occult! I know that politically it seemed necessary in my own generation (the US) to grant 18 year olds the right to vote, because they were being sent to die in a war that they had not voted to participate in! I remember because I was right in the middle of that. My brother was drafted, and I volunteered (pure stupidity on my part?).
    Well, Florida, Washington and a few other states say at 18 you can be sent to war with a SAW in your hands, but you can’t buy a hunting rifle until you’re 21.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    But in all reality, I remember that I held to hard and fast principles of morality, thinking I should support our president (Nixon), and not follow people like Jane Fonda! Communism was obviously evil, and Democracy more righteous. But I never thought much about Western colonialism and adventurism, and about how far we should go to stop the Commies. And how corrupt is our own Democracy? Is it worthwhile to promote that?
    My first vote was for Reagan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Generally speaking, we should be able to trust our parents when we are young, assuming they are Christians, because they do have experience. And we should be able to trust our religious leaders, because God endows them with wisdom and honor when they are in the habit of obedience. Young people will be led by emotion and peer pressure if we don't provide an adequate counterbalance to the world's philosophes, promising Shangri-La if we follow them.
    Actually there is no “should” about it. It’s a Biblical mandate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    As Christians we show something better than the world's philosophies. And in reality, I think it is Christianity itself that has enabled the world's philosophies in the West to work better. We should use Western liberties to promote Christianity, and not vice versa.
    All we need to do is ask the question: “Does that policy break one of the Ten Commandments?” If “yes” than we need to oppose that policy.

    Simple as that.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  5. #65
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    Re: Free Everything!

    Randy, I want to provide few passages on your remark about eldership:

    Leviticus 19:32 “Stand up in the presence of the elderly, and show respect for the aged. Fear your God. I am the LORD.

    1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the prou but gives grace to the humble.”

    Exodus 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

    Matthew 19:19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

    Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. “Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise), “that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.

    Timothy 5:1-3 Never speak harshly to an older man, but appeal to him respectfully as you would to your own father. Talk to younger men as you would to your own brothers. Treat older women as you would your mother, and treat younger women with all purity as you would your own sisters. Take care of any widow who has no one else to care for her.

    Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

    Job 12:12 Wisdom is with the aged, and understanding in length of days.

    Proverbs 13:1 A wise son hears his father’s instruction, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke.

    Proverbs 23:22 Listen to your father who gave you life, and do not despise your mother when she is old.

    1 Timothy 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

    Deuteronomy 27:16 “Cursed is anyone who dishonors their father or mother.” Then all the people shall say, “Amen!”
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  6. #66
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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    What do you mean by "wealth hording" and "inequality"?
    Wealth distribution is being siphoned away from the middle class into a lesser and lesser minority, who are not investing it back into the country except through monopoly. If you don't believe this is a problem, then I suppose that's the end of the conversation. If you agree it's a problem, then how might capitalist ideals solve it?

    BTW, just to state again, monopoly and ologarchy are not capitalism IMO.
    They are being defended by capitalists, so this is really just a mouse-and-cookie situation to me.
    「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
    撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

  7. #67
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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Randy, I want to provide few passages on your remark about eldership:

    Leviticus 19:32 “Stand up in the presence of the elderly, and show respect for the aged. Fear your God. I am the LORD.

    1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the prou but gives grace to the humble.”

    Exodus 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

    Matthew 19:19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

    Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. “Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise), “that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.

    Timothy 5:1-3 Never speak harshly to an older man, but appeal to him respectfully as you would to your own father. Talk to younger men as you would to your own brothers. Treat older women as you would your mother, and treat younger women with all purity as you would your own sisters. Take care of any widow who has no one else to care for her.

    Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

    Job 12:12 Wisdom is with the aged, and understanding in length of days.

    Proverbs 13:1 A wise son hears his father’s instruction, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke.

    Proverbs 23:22 Listen to your father who gave you life, and do not despise your mother when she is old.

    1 Timothy 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

    Deuteronomy 27:16 “Cursed is anyone who dishonors their father or mother.” Then all the people shall say, “Amen!”
    Funny, I just sent a note to my 30 year old daughter, who just recently finally turned her life over completely to the Lord. I told her of when she was a baby I held her in my arms and sang the album from Chuck Girard, "The Name Above All Names." It was an album about prophecy and about being a warrior for God. Little did I know at that time she would grow up in the church, lacking faith, and ultimately joining the military. She suffered some abuses in the military, and now is going through a divorce. A few days ago she called to apologize for all the trouble she's put us through.

    I know it's wise for children to listen to their Christian parents. In this ungodly world and in our godless societies it is hard for young people to respect anything outside of their own judgments. But there is still time.....

  8. #68
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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    Wealth distribution is being siphoned away from the middle class into a lesser and lesser minority, who are not investing it back into the country except through monopoly. If you don't believe this is a problem, then I suppose that's the end of the conversation. If you agree it's a problem, then how might capitalist ideals solve it?
    When you say "wealth distribution is being siphoned away", you don't mean "wealth" itself, right? But rather, the ability for the middle class to obtain wealth? Could you unpack that for me please?

    As for a shrinking middle class being a problem, I do think it is. But I would like to take time to really get into this conversation. Unfortunately, I don't have much time today. I will write more later.

    They are being defended by capitalists, so this is really just a mouse-and-cookie situation to me.
    I don't think we use the same definition for capitalist or capitalism. I am a fan of Hayek and his view of economics. I would argue it is the globalist that are defending large corporations under the guise of "competitiveness". But it is also a way for government to have more control. (IOW, never let a crisis go to waste.) Anyway, this too can be addressed in a biblical way.

    If we let government do what it was ordained by God to do, many of these issues take care of themselves. However, many do not and there's a reason that the Lord leaves them outside of government responsibility.

    Again, this is a long conversation and I would really like to have it. I'll write more in a day or so and "flesh it out" so to speak.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
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  9. #69

    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    Wealth distribution is being siphoned away from the middle class into a lesser and lesser minority, who are not investing it back into the country except through monopoly.
    I don't know what you mean by "siphoned off" and "monopoly." The wealthiest people in the US mostly derive their wealth from involvement in international businesses. They invest their money in a wide range of companies across the US.

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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    Wealth distribution is being siphoned away from the middle class into a lesser and lesser minority, who are not investing it back into the country except through monopoly. If you don't believe this is a problem, then I suppose that's the end of the conversation. If you agree it's a problem, then how might capitalist ideals solve it?
    Do you have any data to back this up ? America has never had a larger group called "middle class" according to most of the data I've seen.

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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    When you say "wealth distribution is being siphoned away", you don't mean "wealth" itself, right?
    Correct, not the literal dollars but the percentage of what's generated.

    I don't think we use the same definition for capitalist or capitalism.
    What is your definition?

    As for a shrinking middle class being a problem, I do think it is. But I would like to take time to really get into this conversation. Unfortunately, I don't have much time today. I will write more later.
    Not a problem, I'll look out for your reply . If you could mainly answer my question, on #50, I'd appreciate that also! Essentially, why is capitalism better at solving social issues? We can have back-and-forth over the morality of hoarding money, but I think this is secondary to my point.
    「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
    撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Radagast View Post
    The wealthiest people in the US mostly derive their wealth from involvement in international businesses.
    Yes, and the question is whether, or to what degree, or through what incentives their financial growth should improve the country as a whole.
    「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
    撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    Essentially, why is capitalism better at solving social issues? We can have back-and-forth over the morality of hoarding money, but I think this is secondary to my point.
    This is from Tucker Carlson. He's already summed up what I would write so please take a look at it. He lays out how our leaders are the problem and how they've went away from what Capitalism really is.

    It's about 15 minutes long but he lays it all out before the big whammy at the end.

    https://video.foxnews.com/v/59854645...#sp=show-clips
    Day by day
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    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

  14. #74
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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    Wealth distribution is being siphoned away from the middle class into a lesser and lesser minority, who are not investing it back into the country except through monopoly. If you don't believe this is a problem, then I suppose that's the end of the conversation. If you agree it's a problem, then how might capitalist ideals solve it?

    The middle class was destroyed by the policies of the Obama administration, but around here it’s coming back.

  15. #75
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    Re: Free Everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    Correct, not the literal dollars but the percentage of what's generated.



    What is your definition?



    Not a problem, I'll look out for your reply . If you could mainly answer my question, on #50, I'd appreciate that also! Essentially, why is capitalism better at solving social issues? We can have back-and-forth over the morality of hoarding money, but I think this is secondary to my point.
    Here is a good article about how much AOC’s ignorant view of capitalism has cost NYC

    The left complains that conservatives are "obsessing" over Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Well, there is a reason for that: Ocasio-Cortez is driving the agenda of today's Democratic Party -- and her economic illiteracy is dangerous.

    Case in point: Last week, Ocasio-Cortez celebrated the tanking of a deal negotiated by her fellow Democrats in which Amazon promised to build a new headquarters in Long Island City, New York, right next to her congressional district. Amazon's departure cost the city between 25,000 and 40,000 new jobs. Forget the tech workers whom Amazon would have employed. Gone are all the unionized construction jobs to build the headquarters, as well as thousands of jobs created by all the small businesses -- restaurants, bodegas, dry cleaners and food carts -- that were preparing to open or expand to serve Amazon employees. They are devastated by Amazon's withdrawal.

    Ocasio-Cortez was not disturbed at all. "We were subsidizing those jobs," she said. "Frankly, if we were willing to give away $3 billion for this deal, we could invest those $3 billion in our district, ourselves, if we wanted to. We could hire out more teachers. We can fix our subways. We can put a lot of people to work for that amount of money if we wanted to."

    MARC THIESSEN: ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ’S ‘GREEN NEW DEAL’ ACCIDENTALLY EXPOSES THE LEFT’S BIG LIE

    No, you can't. Ocasio-Cortez does not seem to realize that New York does not have $3 billion in cash sitting around waiting to be spent on her socialist dreams. The subsidies to Amazon were tax incentives, not cash payouts. It is Amazon's money, which New York agreed to make tax-exempt, so the company would invest it in building its new headquarters, hiring new workers and generating tens of billions in new tax revenue.

    As New York Mayor Bill de Blasio explained, the Amazon deal would have produced "$27 billion in new tax revenue to fuel priorities from transit to affordable housing -- a nine-fold return on the taxes the city and state were prepared to forgo to win the headquarters." Unlike Ocasio-Cortez's imaginary $3 billion slush fund, that is real money that actually could have been used to hire teachers, fix subways and put people to work. With Amazon leaving New York, that $27 billion leaves with it. Genius.

    Ocasio-Cortez does not seem to understand that by helping to drive Amazon away, she did not save New York $3 billion; she cost New York $27 billion. There is a difference between having bad ideas and not grasping basic facts.

    Ocasio-Cortez does not seem to understand that by helping to drive Amazon away, she did not save New York $3 billion; she cost New York $27 billion. There is a difference between having bad ideas and not grasping basic facts. Reasonable people can disagree about whether New York should have offered Amazon $3 billion in tax incentives -- or anything at all -- to build its headquarters in the city. But that is different from not understanding that New York is not writing a $3 billion check to Amazon.

    Sadly, Ocasio-Cortez doesn't learn from her mistakes. She made the same kind of error in December when she tweeted, "$21 TRILLION of Pentagon financial transactions 'could not be traced, documented, or explained.' $21T in Pentagon accounting errors. Medicare for All costs ~$32T. That means 66% of Medicare for All could have been funded already by the Pentagon." But, as Pentagon spokesman Christopher Sherwood told The Post, "DoD hasn't received $21 trillion in (nominal) appropriated funding across the entirety of American history." Once again, Ocasio-Cortez did not grasp that the Pentagon did not have a magic pile of $21 trillion in cash sitting in a vault somewhere.

    Her economic illiteracy matters because she is the principal author of the Green New Deal, which has been endorsed by most of the leading Democratic candidates for president. From this unschooled mind has sprung the most ambitious plan for government intervention in the economy since Vladimir Ilyich Lenin's train pulled into Petrograd's Finland Station.

    If Ocasio-Cortez doesn't understand how tax subsidies work, how can she be trusted to plan the federal takeover of the health-care, energy and transportation sectors of our economy? Think she and her allies have any idea how to, as her now infamous talking points put it, upgrade or replace "every building in America" ... or replace "every combustible-engine vehicle" ... or connect every corner of America with high-speed rail ... or replace all fossil-fuel energy with alternative energy sources -- all in 10 years' time? Apparently, they think we just have to find all the magic pots of cash the government is hiding.

    When this kind of ignorance is driving policymaking in Washington, America is in profound danger. Amazon left New York because Ocasio-Cortez and her fellow democratic socialists created a hostile environment in the city. And if Ocasio-Cortez has her way, Democrats are going to do to the rest of America what they just did to New York.

    - Marc Thiessen

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