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Thread: Strict ID Laws Don't Stop Voters: Evidence from a U.S. Nationwide Panel, 2008-2016

  1. #16
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    Re: Strict ID Laws Don't Stop Voters: Evidence from a U.S. Nationwide Panel, 2008-201

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    Okay, What are you even talking about Keck?
    Sorry, itís outside of your bubble

  2. #17
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    Re: Strict ID Laws Don't Stop Voters: Evidence from a U.S. Nationwide Panel, 2008-201

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    Lol Yep, I also found it truly interesting how they found that it didnít even appear to affect perception, which inclines me to think of it as a sort of political perpetual motion machine.
    I suppose it matches the results though, lol. People don't perceive it having an effect because it actually doesn't. Where's Morpheus when you need him?
    여러분은 주님 안에서 항상 기뻐하십시오. 내가 다시 말합니다. 기뻐하십시오.
    모든 사람을 너그럽게 대하십시오. 주님께서 오실 날이 가까웠습니다. Philippians 4


  3. #18
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    Re: Strict ID Laws Don't Stop Voters: Evidence from a U.S. Nationwide Panel, 2008-201

    Itís a logical fallacy to project voter fraud with a strict ID program to no ID required, as if no ID would be equal or better with no data to support such a projection.

    If fraud occurs with strict ID laws, simply enforce existing fraud laws and prosecute violators enough to offset the risk/reward formula

  4. #19

    Re: Strict ID Laws Don't Stop Voters: Evidence from a U.S. Nationwide Panel, 2008-201

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Itís a logical fallacy to project voter fraud with a strict ID program to no ID required, as if no ID would be equal or better with no data to support such a projection.

    If fraud occurs with strict ID laws, simply enforce existing fraud laws and prosecute violators enough to offset the risk/reward formula
    I'm not really sure of how you are using "project" here,or in what way this study is projecting.What I can say is that there is data from states with id laws and states without them.

    do you believe that we are not enforcing existing fraud laws and prosecuting violators? if so could you put some margins around the scope of this problem and how you arrive at that conclusion?
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  5. #20
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    Re: Strict ID Laws Don't Stop Voters: Evidence from a U.S. Nationwide Panel, 2008-201

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    I'm not really sure of how you are using "project" here,or in what way this study is projecting.What I can say is that there is data from states with id laws and states without them.

    do you believe that we are not enforcing existing fraud laws and prosecuting violators? if so could you put some margins around the scope of this problem and how you arrive at that conclusion?
    I have no idea how fraud in strict voter ID states nullifies the need for strict voter ID.

    Voters who commit fraud get a slap on the wrist. They should receive a mandatory 10 year jail sentence and lose their voting right for life. That will stop it. But that doesn’t work for illegal voters because they’re not supposed to vote in the first place.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  6. #21

    Re: Strict ID Laws Don't Stop Voters: Evidence from a U.S. Nationwide Panel, 2008-201

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    I have no idea how fraud in strict voter ID states nullifies the need for strict voter ID.

    Voters who commit fraud get a slap on the wrist. They should receive a mandatory 10 year jail sentence and lose their voting right for life. That will stop it. But that doesn’t work for illegal voters because they’re not supposed to vote in the first place.
    Well I Probably wouldn’t say nullify, but I would say that when fraud is unaffected by strict voter ID rules it brings the utility of such rules into question. I also think that the fact that the actual deterrent in your own proposal isn’t so much the ID requirement as it is the mandatory 10 year prison sentence. I think if anything the study suggests that it might be more effective to Pick a different fight like lobbying for increased mandatory sentencing for voter fraud (not that I Neccesarily share your certainty on how effective that would be). But hey if we keep getting data like this I’d be happy to let laws with no discernible impact on fraud or turnout be implemented if it helps some of my fellow Americans rest easier, unfortunately it doesn’t even appear to be an effective placebo...so If the study is an accurate reflection of the reality of ID laws then it seems to only have utility for those that have something to gain or maintain from a fight where neither side will benefit or lose anything tangible.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  7. #22
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    Re: Strict ID Laws Don't Stop Voters: Evidence from a U.S. Nationwide Panel, 2008-201

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    Well I Probably wouldnít say nullify, but I would say that when fraud is unaffected by strict voter ID rules it brings the utility of such rules into question. I also think that the fact that the actual deterrent in your own proposal isnít so much the ID requirement as it is the mandatory 10 year prison sentence. I think if anything the study suggests that it might be more effective to Pick a different fight like lobbying for increased mandatory sentencing for voter fraud (not that I Neccesarily share your certainty on how effective that would be). But hey if we keep getting data like this Iíd be happy to let laws with no discernible impact on fraud or turnout be implemented if it helps some of my fellow Americans rest easier, unfortunately it doesnít even appear to be an effective placebo...so If the study is an accurate reflection of the reality of ID laws then it seems to only have utility for those that have something to gain or maintain from a fight where neither side will benefit or lose anything tangible.
    Well since thousands of gun laws donít affect criminals using guns, maybe we should do away with background checks.

  8. #23

    Re: Strict ID Laws Don't Stop Voters: Evidence from a U.S. Nationwide Panel, 2008-201

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Well since thousands of gun laws don’t affect criminals using guns, maybe we should do away with background checks.
    If the thousands of gun laws you are referring to are background check related laws intended to affect criminals using guns, then yes if they have no impact on the targeted issue we should question their utility. One of the main arguments used against implementing new gun laws is that they will have little or no impact on criminal gun activity. It appears that you can understand the concept yet you seem to be positioning yourself against it in the context of voter ID laws...fascinating.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  9. #24

    Re: Strict ID Laws Don't Stop Voters: Evidence from a U.S. Nationwide Panel, 2008-201

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Well since thousands of gun laws don’t affect criminals using guns, maybe we should do away with background checks.
    This may or may not be of interest to you, just read it the other day “dangerous weapons or dangerous people:the temporal associations between gun violence and mental health”
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  10. #25
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    Re: Strict ID Laws Don't Stop Voters: Evidence from a U.S. Nationwide Panel, 2008-201

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    So? Gun laws donít stop them

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