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Thread: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

  1. #16

    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    I'm saying that Ephesians 1-2 is not making the point that we are grafted into Israel (and that this is not the point of Romans 11 either).

    When you had written "I see the church" (I read you to mean, "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Ephesians 1:20-23 "WHEN" (concept)] rather than "the church in the wilderness" Acts 7, or the "assembly" in Acts 19 [tho same Grk word, neither then same group])

    sorry, I cannot edit
    Sounds like you really want to promote your new interpretation, so can you please make a separate thread for it because your getting off topic of mine. I agree with forhisglory that your not making any sense whatsoever

  2. #17

    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    My apologies (I had only wanted to be brief).

    Here's what I've posted in the past, here, just to clarify... and then I will depart out of your thread :

    [quoting my past posts]

    I'm looking for a different quote by George V Wigram... but (in the meantime) in its place, I'll just post this brief portion also by him (note the phrase "God's governmental ways on earth," which is what I believe Roman's 11's "olive tree" represents):

    [quoting Wigram]

    "Gen. 27:29 [Isaac blessing Jacob]. Let peoples ([I]gamnzim[/U], pl.), serve thee and [manners or sorts of ] nations (l'ummim, pl.) bow down to thee: be lord [a mighty man] over thy brethren.

    "Observe, this would not run the source of the division of people back to Shem, Ham and Japhet, so as to make the word to be equivalent to what we call the races of people, in connection with the Noahic earth, who constitute the whole human family. The subdivision here alluded to took place in the family of Isaac, type of the heir of promise, not earlier; and the heads of this subdivision are brought before us in Rom. 9 All God's ways and subdivisions are to be noted."

    [also]

    "f Israel is the goh'y of experience, promise, blessing on the earth; the center of all God's governmental ways on earth; but in saying that, I look at them from outside and as one whole. When they are owned as gammi, my people, their detailed state and associations within is the aspect in which they are considered."
    --George V Wigram

    http://bibletruthpublishers.com/hebr...wigram/la61041

    ____________

    [quoting that other article]

    "[re: Romans 11] In Jesus Christ, if the question be about Christian position, eternal life, or the Church considered in her essential relationship to Christ, there was neither Jew nor Gentile; the thoughts found in this chapter [Romans 11] can THERE have no place. If the question be about the cutting off of an individual for sinful conduct, little matters it whether he be Jew or Gentile; that has nothing to do with it, and on the other hand, there would be no question about grafting in again of the Jews more than of any others, and neither Jews nor others could be grafted in, if God had cut them off in such a manner. And if it were a question about a warning from the Apostle to Christians at Rome, and so to others elsewhere, as being brethren, it would be almost nonsense to say, " And thou, O Gentile, take heed!" Why, thou, O Gentile? Had not Christians, Jews by birth, as much need to take heed? Or could the Spirit of God, in such a warning, have made the distinction, and thus denied the principle of, the Church of God in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile? If the question is about a divine administration upon earth, then God can well make the distinction and develop his ways towards the one and the other; and it is plain that from the commencement of the ninth chapter the Apostle is occupied with and pointedly contrasts the Jews and the Gentiles, presenting us with the administration of the divine ways upon the earth. First declaring his attachment to Israel, he points out an election in the election for the earth, and further, that if God according to his sovereignty had chosen Israel (and such was Israel's boast), He had not renounced His sovereignty; and consequently, He could call the Gentiles if he would. Then he recalls to mind that the prophets had shown that a little remnant only, of Israel, at such an epoch, would be saved, and that a stone of stumbling would be laid in Zion."

    -- Thoughts on Romans 11 and the Responsibility of the Church, Present Testimony: Volume 4 George V. Wigram

    http://bibletruthpublishers.com/thou...lume-4/la85282

    [end quoting; bold and underline mine]

  3. #18
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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    I was one who saw Eze 37 a likely fulfillment of the Persian Restoration. But I've backed down from that position now. Yes, it looks like one of the several prophecies of the Messianic Age, in which Israel is recovered, never to be oppressed again. The language seems to suggest an eschatological fulfillment, rather than something that's already happened in history.

    What threw me off previously was not just that commentators suggested an historic fulfillment, but also that the uniting of Israel and Judah into a single entity actually happened many, many years ago. But that doesn't necessarily mean the prophecy was fulfilled at that time. It may have been a preliminary fulfillment of what will actually be completed at the 2nd Coming of Christ.

  4. #19

    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I was one who saw Eze 37 a likely fulfillment of the Persian Restoration. But I've backed down from that position now. Yes, it looks like one of the several prophecies of the Messianic Age, in which Israel is recovered, never to be oppressed again. The language seems to suggest an eschatological fulfillment, rather than something that's already happened in history.

    What threw me off previously was not just that commentators suggested an historic fulfillment, but also that the uniting of Israel and Judah into a single entity actually happened many, many years ago. But that doesn't necessarily mean the prophecy was fulfilled at that time. It may have been a preliminary fulfillment of what will actually be completed at the 2nd Coming of Christ.

    Personally I try to line my self up with the early church fathers of the first 3 centuries, and what’s interesting is that they interpreted the resurrection literally as the first resurrection , and they said that the Gnostics in their day interpreted the resurrection figuratively as the Persian restoration.
    Since the Gnostics rejected the idea of a resurrection of the body.
    But yea I believe the messianic gathering of Israel from the nations taught through the prophets were not talking about the historic return from Babylon, but the gathering through the preaching of the gospel and at the 2nd coming.
    Ezekiel 37 definitely uses messianic language, hardly any of it was fulfilled historicaly at the Persian restoration. Glad people are agreeing.

  5. #20
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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    In the 36th chapter of Ezekiel, the prophet tells the story of how all the Lord’s people, Christian Israelites, of Judah, Israel and grafted in: are gathered, redeemed and settled into all of the holy Land. However, before then, the story unfolds;
    Isaiah 41:1 - Keep silent before Me you coasts and islands.... Five steps are mentioned here by the prophet; keep silent – When ancient Israel migrated from their captivity in Assyria, they remained hidden until they regained their strength. Then, let them come near – awaken to the true gospel, evangelism from John Wycliffe to Billy Graham, etc.
    Let them speak – proclaim the good news around the world.
    Still to come is ‘Let us meet in the place of judgement’ Isaiah 41:8-9 God will soon call His people back to the Land, where the administration of His commandments and Laws will be restored. Ezekiel 36:27

    Jeremiah 3:8 Israel and Judah divorced from God and sent into captivity for their sins.

    God took Ezekiel in a vision to a valley full of dry bones;
    Ezekiel 37:11 These bones are the whole house of Israel [the 12 tribes] They say: our hope is gone, we are cut off. [from God]
    Ezekiel 37:9-10 The Lord God says: let the winds [Gods spirit] come and breath into the slain [dead to the Gospel] that they might live. They came to life and stood up- a mighty company! [of Christians]
    Ezekiel 37:12-13 I will bring you up from your graves [our present, partial Spiritual condition] and restore you to the Land of Israel.

    Through Isaiah, God gives a message to His people, identifying them as a people who have lost the knowledge of their origin and forgotten their ancestors:
    Isaiah 51:1-2 Listen to Me, all you who know the Law [the common Judeo-Christian Law of our countries] You who seek the Lord [Christian peoples] consider your origin, where you came from- Abraham and Sarah are your parents. I blessed them and now you are their offspring.

    God is looking forward to the day when the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus is completed. His sacrifice of atonement and salvation is made available to all who accept it and acknowledge their Creator.
    Everyone who has the faith of Abraham, is deemed to be his offspring. Galatians 3:26-29 One of the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16

    The great awakening of all the Israelites is symbolically represented as life from the dead, for through the Resurrection of Jesus, God demonstrates His power and will do this; Ezekiel 37:14 I shall put My spirit into you and you will live. [a true Godly life] Thus you will know that I, the Lord has acted and spoken.

    And in Ezekiel 37:26-28 I shall make an everlasting covenant with Israel. My sanctuary will be in their midst, I will be their God and they will be My people.
    The Glory of God will be present in the new Temple, as in ancient times. Ezekiel 43:1-4

    The Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign comes at least 10 years later.

  6. #21

    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    In the 36th chapter of Ezekiel, the prophet tells the story of how all the Lord’s people, Christian Israelites, of Judah, Israel and grafted in: are gathered, redeemed and settled into all of the holy Land. However, before then, the story unfolds;
    Isaiah 41:1 - Keep silent before Me you coasts and islands.... Five steps are mentioned here by the prophet; keep silent – When ancient Israel migrated from their captivity in Assyria, they remained hidden until they regained their strength. Then, let them come near – awaken to the true gospel, evangelism from John Wycliffe to Billy Graham, etc.
    Let them speak – proclaim the good news around the world.
    Still to come is ‘Let us meet in the place of judgement’ Isaiah 41:8-9 God will soon call His people back to the Land, where the administration of His commandments and Laws will be restored. Ezekiel 36:27

    Jeremiah 3:8 Israel and Judah divorced from God and sent into captivity for their sins.

    God took Ezekiel in a vision to a valley full of dry bones;
    Ezekiel 37:11 These bones are the whole house of Israel [the 12 tribes] They say: our hope is gone, we are cut off. [from God]
    Ezekiel 37:9-10 The Lord God says: let the winds [Gods spirit] come and breath into the slain [dead to the Gospel] that they might live. They came to life and stood up- a mighty company! [of Christians]
    Ezekiel 37:12-13 I will bring you up from your graves [our present, partial Spiritual condition] and restore you to the Land of Israel.

    Through Isaiah, God gives a message to His people, identifying them as a people who have lost the knowledge of their origin and forgotten their ancestors:
    Isaiah 51:1-2 Listen to Me, all you who know the Law [the common Judeo-Christian Law of our countries] You who seek the Lord [Christian peoples] consider your origin, where you came from- Abraham and Sarah are your parents. I blessed them and now you are their offspring.

    God is looking forward to the day when the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus is completed. His sacrifice of atonement and salvation is made available to all who accept it and acknowledge their Creator.
    Everyone who has the faith of Abraham, is deemed to be his offspring. Galatians 3:26-29 One of the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16

    The great awakening of all the Israelites is symbolically represented as life from the dead, for through the Resurrection of Jesus, God demonstrates His power and will do this; Ezekiel 37:14 I shall put My spirit into you and you will live. [a true Godly life] Thus you will know that I, the Lord has acted and spoken.

    And in Ezekiel 37:26-28 I shall make an everlasting covenant with Israel. My sanctuary will be in their midst, I will be their God and they will be My people.
    The Glory of God will be present in the new Temple, as in ancient times. Ezekiel 43:1-4

    The Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign comes at least 10 years later.

    So you see the resurrection in chapter 37 as purely symbolic imagery of spiritually coming alive by the gospel from the state of being dead in sin? I have a hard time believing that, because the discription of the resurrection, the rising of the flesh and muscles and bones, showing the power of Yahuwah, was more than just symbolic imagery. It’s prophecing of the literal resurrection of the dead.

    Ezekiel 37:12 says he will open their graves “and bring you into the land of Israel” and in verse 14 “ he will place you in your OWN land”? How do you interpret that?

    The Apostles teach we are pilgrims and strangers in this world , we won’t have our own land just like Abraham. Abraham and his seed were promised the land of Canaan. But Abraham and his seed ( the Church) has not received it yet, we will inherit it in the 1000 year reign.

  7. #22
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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Many commentators say that the dry bones raising to life was simply symbolic imagery of Israel’s return from captivity in Babylon.
    But there’s a few problems I have with that, because the events that happened in the return from Babylonian captivity didn’t fulfill all of Ezekiel 37.
    For starters, only a very small portion of Jews actually returned , most of the others stayed in the nations that they were. The book of Esther shows the Jews were still scattered abroad, the NT also shows that the Jews were still scattered across the world.
    Other reason, the 12 tribes weren’t untited, they didn’t receive a davidic king ( Zerubbabel wasn’t a king), they didn’t receive the Holy Spirit, and they didn’t dwell in safety.
    Wouldn’t it be better to interpret The dry bones raising as the 1st resurrection when the righteous will inherit Jerusalem and the world? Much of Ezekiel 37 was fulfilled in the 1st advent of Christ, but part of it won’t be fulfilled until he returns
    The answer is in verse 11 and 19.
    Ezekiel 37:11 says; "Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts."
    Ezekiel 37:19 reads; "Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand."

    The plain language, especially of verse 11, is that they bones and the sticks are the TOTALITY of Israel - 12 Tribes. Various verses in the New Testament, plus the obvious evidence of the Old Testament, show that the Church is NOT revealed to the prophets of old (Eph.3:5, 9 etc.). Israel is the SUM of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and ALL the "seed" that was every realized from Jacob's loins. From Abraham till Joshua SEVEN generations passed and they did not get the Land they were promised. Of the seventh generation (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and four generations in Egypt - Gen.15:16), ALL the men of war (ca. 600,000 men) fell in the Wilderness and did not gain or inherit the Land. Then, from the deportation by Assyria of the ten northern Tribes, until now, millions of the seed of Jacob, have lived and died in foreign lands. Today, less than half the known Israelites live in Canaan. The "WHOLE HOUSE" of Israel is every single one of the men and women who come from Jacob's loins.

    TWO things are needed to accomplish Ezekiel Chapter 37;
    1. The RESURRECTION of EVERY Israelite who ever lived, including stillborn babies. God knows who they are, even if the mists of time and chastisement of Israel make it impossible for man to know.
    2. A GATHERING of every seed of Jacob from every nation under the sun. This is done AFTER the Great Tribulation. In Matthew 24, from verse 1 to 31, the whole context is Israeli. It starts with the Temple, goes through Israeli experience and Law, with the Sabbath and Jerusalem and Judea prominent, and ends with those gathered from the "four winds". Only Israelites were scattered to the four winds (Jer.49:36; Zech.2:6).

    So it is in Ezekiel 37:9; "Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live." This takes place AFTER the "tribulation of THOSE days" (Matt.24:29) and AFTER the Lord Jesus returns to earth (v.30).

    Thus, as you say, the prophecy of Ezekiel 37 has not yet been fulfilled.

    The Olive Tree, that was so energetically discussed, has almost nothing to do with Ezekiel 37. A "Tree" in Parable is a king and his kingdom (Joshua 9, Daniel 4 and Ezekiel 31). One astute poster showed this (posting #4). The Olive Tree is neither Israel nor the Church, but Christ's Kingdom, or Governmental setup on earth AFTER Israel are restored.

  8. #23
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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Personally I try to line my self up with the early church fathers of the first 3 centuries, and what’s interesting is that they interpreted the resurrection literally as the first resurrection , and they said that the Gnostics in their day interpreted the resurrection figuratively as the Persian restoration.
    Since the Gnostics rejected the idea of a resurrection of the body.
    But yea I believe the messianic gathering of Israel from the nations taught through the prophets were not talking about the historic return from Babylon, but the gathering through the preaching of the gospel and at the 2nd coming.
    Ezekiel 37 definitely uses messianic language, hardly any of it was fulfilled historicaly at the Persian restoration. Glad people are agreeing.
    Yes, I place a lot of stock in the teaching of the Church Fathers also, and I certainly don't want to be in league with the Gnostics. There is much in the Prophets about the Persian Restoration, following the Babylonian Captivity. But I tend to use a few key words to identify the Jewish Hope, or the Messianic Age to Come, or what we call the Millennium. If the Davidic Messiah is mentioned, or if the oppression of Israel is said to be over, never to happen again, then I think we are likely talking about the final restoration of Israel in the Millennial Age.

    Israel never seems to have achieved their promised status as a nation under God, in an eternal marriage to God, since the Babylonian Captivity. In the Persian Restoration they did achieve national restoration, but they were not fully restored spiritually under their Messiah, giving them full political independence. Greek and Roman control left them a servant state, and it could never have been said that they achieved their glorious calling. And certainly, in the NT era the Jewish People in Diaspora could never have been said to achieve their calling.

    I think Jesus said it best. Until he returns the Gentiles will oppress the Jews. Not until this present age is over can it be said that Israel has achieved, as a nation, what God promised Abraham they would become.

  9. #24

    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The answer is in verse 11 and 19.
    Ezekiel 37:11 says; "Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts."
    Ezekiel 37:19 reads; "Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand."

    The plain language, especially of verse 11, is that they bones and the sticks are the TOTALITY of Israel - 12 Tribes. Various verses in the New Testament, plus the obvious evidence of the Old Testament, show that the Church is NOT revealed to the prophets of old (Eph.3:5, 9 etc.). Israel is the SUM of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and ALL the "seed" that was every realized from Jacob's loins. From Abraham till Joshua SEVEN generations passed and they did not get the Land they were promised. Of the seventh generation (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and four generations in Egypt - Gen.15:16), ALL the men of war (ca. 600,000 men) fell in the Wilderness and did not gain or inherit the Land. Then, from the deportation by Assyria of the ten northern Tribes, until now, millions of the seed of Jacob, have lived and died in foreign lands. Today, less than half the known Israelites live in Canaan. The "WHOLE HOUSE" of Israel is every single one of the men and women who come from Jacob's loins.

    TWO things are needed to accomplish Ezekiel Chapter 37;
    1. The RESURRECTION of EVERY Israelite who ever lived, including stillborn babies. God knows who they are, even if the mists of time and chastisement of Israel make it impossible for man to know.
    2. A GATHERING of every seed of Jacob from every nation under the sun. This is done AFTER the Great Tribulation. In Matthew 24, from verse 1 to 31, the whole context is Israeli. It starts with the Temple, goes through Israeli experience and Law, with the Sabbath and Jerusalem and Judea prominent, and ends with those gathered from the "four winds". Only Israelites were scattered to the four winds (Jer.49:36; Zech.2:6).

    So it is in Ezekiel 37:9; "Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live." This takes place AFTER the "tribulation of THOSE days" (Matt.24:29) and AFTER the Lord Jesus returns to earth (v.30).

    Thus, as you say, the prophecy of Ezekiel 37 has not yet been fulfilled.

    The Olive Tree, that was so energetically discussed, has almost nothing to do with Ezekiel 37. A "Tree" in Parable is a king and his kingdom (Joshua 9, Daniel 4 and Ezekiel 31). One astute poster showed this (posting #4). The Olive Tree is neither Israel nor the Church, but Christ's Kingdom, or Governmental setup on earth AFTER Israel are restored.
    Sounds like you believe in universalism for the Jews, interesting because many of the Jews in The 1st century believed the same thing, but Yahuwshuwa rebuked them for that, and said they were sons of the devil not sons of Abraham. The Sons of Abraham are those who share his same faith, for it is written, I have made you a father of many nations.
    So do you believe gentiles receive salvation too?

  10. #25
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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    So you see the resurrection in chapter 37 as purely symbolic imagery of spiritually coming alive by the gospel from the state of being dead in sin? I have a hard time believing that, because the discription of the resurrection, the rising of the flesh and muscles and bones, showing the power of Yahuwah, was more than just symbolic imagery. It’s prophecing of the literal resurrection of the dead.

    Ezekiel 37:12 says he will open their graves “and bring you into the land of Israel” and in verse 14 “ he will place you in your OWN land”? How do you interpret that?

    The Apostles teach we are pilgrims and strangers in this world , we won’t have our own land just like Abraham. Abraham and his seed were promised the land of Canaan. But Abraham and his seed ( the Church) has not received it yet, we will inherit it in the 1000 year reign.
    Yes I do and plain reading of Ezekiel 37 shows a symbolic understanding of it to be more viable.
    If a resurrection is meant, then other scriptures; other Witnesses should confirm it. Where are they? The general resurrection of ALL the dead will occur at the Great White Throne Judgement, after the Millennium.
    The only other instance of people being brought back to life, is when Jesus returns, bringing the souls of those Christians killed by the AC during the final 3 1/2 years of this age. Revelation 20:4

    We Christians are the inheritors of all the holy Land. WE are the Seed of Abraham by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, and God will call us His children in the same place that the ancient Israelites rejected Him. Romans 9:24-26

  11. #26

    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Yes I do and plain reading of Ezekiel 37 shows a symbolic understanding of it to be more viable.
    If a resurrection is meant, then other scriptures; other Witnesses should confirm it. Where are they? The general resurrection of ALL the dead will occur at the Great White Throne Judgement, after the Millennium.
    The only other instance of people being brought back to life, is when Jesus returns, bringing the souls of those Christians killed by the AC during the final 3 1/2 years of this age. Revelation 20:4

    We Christians are the inheritors of all the holy Land. WE are the Seed of Abraham by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, and God will call us His children in the same place that the ancient Israelites rejected Him. Romans 9:24-26
    How is a symbolic reading more viable? I don’t see that? I see a very discriptive picture of the resurrection of the righteous. Did you know the earliest Christians interpreted this passage as the literal resurrection while it was the Gnostics who interpreted it as spiritual and symbolic , since they rejected the idea of a bodily resurrection.
    Sounds like your imposing some of your preconceived doctrines into your interpretation, you say the souls of the righteous will be saved? What about their bodies? Do you believe in a bodily resurrection of the righteous when Christ returns?

    And there are a lot of scripture that backs up Ezekiel 37 being the 1st resurrection when the seed of Abraham will inherit the land of Canaan promised to Abraham.

  12. #27
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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Sounds like you believe in universalism for the Jews, interesting because many of the Jews in The 1st century believed the same thing, but Yahuwshuwa rebuked them for that, and said they were sons of the devil not sons of Abraham. The Sons of Abraham are those who share his same faith, for it is written, I have made you a father of many nations.
    So do you believe gentiles receive salvation too?
    I must admit that you pose a difficult question, and I believe that it comes from your understanding of the scheme of things. But I cannot rightly judge, not being in your skin. "Universalism" means that, "in a philosophical and theological concept of a religion that some ideas have universal application or applicability". But I think that Israel is an EXCLUSIVE people and are to follow and EXCLUSIVE religion. My argument was based on two verses in the which, ONLY the House of Israel is mentioned. This is very specific. And while I mentioned Abraham it was only because the Covenant of Promise, to which Ezekiel Chapter 37 is the accomplishment, was given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, not to anybody else. "Israel" is the new name given to one man, and thus his seed are Israel.

    To Abraham, THREE seeds are promised - (i) A SEED (singular) in Whom all the families of the earth will be blessed, (ii) Seed as sand of the sea-shore, and (iii) Seed as the stars of heaven.
    1. The first is the result of the Holy Spirit's intervention in a virgin. Thus, this Seed is both divine and human
    2. The second is the result of God's intervention in the flesh of two barren women, and they will inherit Canaan. Ezekiel Chapter 37 shows how.
    3. The third is the result of the intervention of the Holy Spirit in the spirit of any man who believes in Christ (Jn.3:6). This "SEED" proceeds from Jesus Who is Seed of Abraham and so they become heirs by association (Gal.3:29). As their birth is "from above" and they are of the "heavenly calling" (Heb.3:1), and as their glory will be "celestial" in resurrection, they will inherit the WHOLE EARTH (Rom.4:13).

    The original posting considered only Seed number 2. And so, by resurrecting and gathering all of the House of Jacob to their Land, God completes His side of the Covenant of Promise, irrespective of Israel's sins. But it is still future to us as we converse.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    How is a symbolic reading more viable? I don’t see that? I see a very discriptive picture of the resurrection of the righteous. Did you know the earliest Christians interpreted this passage as the literal resurrection while it was the Gnostics who interpreted it as spiritual and symbolic , since they rejected the idea of a bodily resurrection.
    Sounds like your imposing some of your preconceived doctrines into your interpretation, you say the souls of the righteous will be saved? What about their bodies? Do you believe in a bodily resurrection of the righteous when Christ returns?

    And there are a lot of scripture that backs up Ezekiel 37 being the 1st resurrection when the seed of Abraham will inherit the land of Canaan promised to Abraham.
    I believe in a bringing back to life of those killed for their faith during the period of 42 months that the 'beast' has world control. Just what Revelation 20:4 tell us.
    Other than them, there will be no people resurrected until every person who has ever lived will stand before the Lord at the Great White Throne Judgement. Thinking that Ezekiel 37 is an actual resurrection conflicts with these plain scriptures.

    We Christians ARE the Seed of Abraham, his descendants by faith. Galatians 3:26-29 You are the one with all the preconceived doctrines!

  14. #29

    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I believe in a bringing back to life of those killed for their faith during the period of 42 months that the 'beast' has world control. Just what Revelation 20:4 tell us.
    Other than them, there will be no people resurrected until every person who has ever lived will stand before the Lord at the Great White Throne Judgement. Thinking that Ezekiel 37 is an actual resurrection conflicts with these plain scriptures.

    We Christians ARE the Seed of Abraham, his descendants by faith. Galatians 3:26-29 You are the one with all the preconceived doctrines!
    It doesn’t conflict at all with scripture, it actually lines up perfectly. I think the problem is that it doesn’t line up with your understanding of scripture, that’s why your forced to spiritualize it and explain it away. Don’t force the Bible to fit your doctrine, instead force your doctrine to fit the Bible

  15. #30

    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I must admit that you pose a difficult question, and I believe that it comes from your understanding of the scheme of things. But I cannot rightly judge, not being in your skin. "Universalism" means that, "in a philosophical and theological concept of a religion that some ideas have universal application or applicability". But I think that Israel is an EXCLUSIVE people and are to follow and EXCLUSIVE religion. My argument was based on two verses in the which, ONLY the House of Israel is mentioned. This is very specific. And while I mentioned Abraham it was only because the Covenant of Promise, to which Ezekiel Chapter 37 is the accomplishment, was given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, not to anybody else. "Israel" is the new name given to one man, and thus his seed are Israel.

    To Abraham, THREE seeds are promised - (i) A SEED (singular) in Whom all the families of the earth will be blessed, (ii) Seed as sand of the sea-shore, and (iii) Seed as the stars of heaven.
    1. The first is the result of the Holy Spirit's intervention in a virgin. Thus, this Seed is both divine and human
    2. The second is the result of God's intervention in the flesh of two barren women, and they will inherit Canaan. Ezekiel Chapter 37 shows how.
    3. The third is the result of the intervention of the Holy Spirit in the spirit of any man who believes in Christ (Jn.3:6). This "SEED" proceeds from Jesus Who is Seed of Abraham and so they become heirs by association (Gal.3:29). As their birth is "from above" and they are of the "heavenly calling" (Heb.3:1), and as their glory will be "celestial" in resurrection, they will inherit the WHOLE EARTH (Rom.4:13).

    The original posting considered only Seed number 2. And so, by resurrecting and gathering all of the House of Jacob to their Land, God completes His side of the Covenant of Promise, irrespective of Israel's sins. But it is still future to us as we converse.
    When I said universalism for Jews I meant do you believe all Jews who ever existed will be saved?

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