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Thread: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

  1. #31
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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    When I said universalism for Jews I meant do you believe all Jews who ever existed will be saved?
    OK. I think the answer to that is; what your definition of "saved"? I'm sure you will agree that there are various meanings attached to this word. For instance, Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God", might be the same as Romans 10:9, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved", and Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." But the "saved" of Matthew 14:30, "But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me", is worlds apart in meaning. So also is 1st Timothy 2:15, "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety", totally different from these but also 1st Peter 3:20, "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." Not only is it different but was not Noah and sons saved FROM water by the Ark - not BY water?

    So I will answer in that just as there are various "salvations" which mean different things, so Romans 11:26, "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob", is a different "salvation". Fortunately, this "salvation" is documented at length by the prophets. For my proof I will refer to one of the last Israeli prophets - Zacharias in Luke 1:67-79. Without a verse by verse exegesis, we can easily see Israel's "salvation" here. This prophecy is directed at "His People" being the Lord God of ISRAEL in verse 68. Christ is the "Horn of salvation" for "us" (Israel) and its king - David (v.69). Israel are to be "saved from their enemies" and "saved from those that hate Israel" (v.71). This "salvation" is the final implementation of the Covenant with Abraham which said; (i) that they would receive Canaan as a everlasting possession, (ii) that God would bless them, (iii) that their enemies would be God's enemies, and (iv) that they would possess the Gates of their enemies. The Covenant of Promise made with Abraham said not a word of eternal life, rebirth, possessing the divine nature, transformation into the image of Christ, entering the Kingdom of Heaven and safety from the Lake of Fire.

    I would thus maintain that Ezekiel 37 is the MEANS of achieving this Covenant after Israel have sinned, broken the Covenants, rejected and murdered their Messiah, been chastised, deported, dispersed among all nations and made a "byword". I would NEVER mean that Israel is "saved" as a Believer is since they (Israel) are ALL concluded, by God, to be in UNBELIEF (Rom.11:32). Ezekiel 37 pertains to Israelites - the "seed" of Israel (Jacob), being restored to their Land in resurrection, by a gathering by the angels, in favor with God, with their sins put away, and with a New Covenant of Law (Jer.31:31-33).

    Since the bulk of Israel languish in the dust, having died in dispersion, and more than half of the living Israelites are not in their Land, and since the Gentiles tread their holy place on Moriah, Ezekiel Chapter 37 is future.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    It doesn’t conflict at all with scripture, it actually lines up perfectly. I think the problem is that it doesn’t line up with your understanding of scripture, that’s why your forced to spiritualize it and explain it away. Don’t force the Bible to fit your doctrine, instead force your doctrine to fit the Bible
    Your reply, which is just a retort about my beliefs, does not answer my question: Where in the Bible is it said that all the dead of Israel will be resurrected? Ezekiel 37 is plainly before Jesus Returns. When and more importantly; why will God bring back those Israelites, who have already been shown to be useless for God's purposes.

  3. #33
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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    The Apostles teach we are pilgrims and strangers in this world , we won’t have our own land just like Abraham. Abraham and his seed were promised the land of Canaan. But Abraham and his seed ( the Church) has not received it yet, we will inherit it in the 1000 year reign.
    We inherit the heavenly promise at his coming ….,


    Heb 11
    3 All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.


    14 For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15 And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return.



    16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.



    This is a post mill expectation according to Revelation..., when the prepared city and tabernacle of God resides with us.



    Heb 12
    22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    It seems pretty clear to me that the second half of Ezekiel 37 is yet to be fulfilled.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    We inherit the heavenly promise at his coming ….,


    Heb 11
    3 All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.


    14 For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15 And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return.



    16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.



    This is a post mill expectation according to Revelation..., when the prepared city and tabernacle of God resides with us.



    Heb 12
    22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
    Agreed that is the our promise and when we will get it

  6. #36
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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Agreed that is the our promise and when we will get it
    Thankyou Marty

    Heb 11:15 And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return.


    Not earthly as in the fallen world, but heavenly on a NHNE.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Your reply, which is just a retort about my beliefs, does not answer my question: Where in the Bible is it said that all the dead of Israel will be resurrected? Ezekiel 37 is plainly before Jesus Returns. When and more importantly; why will God bring back those Israelites, who have already been shown to be useless for God's purposes.
    In His Covenant with Abraham, God promised, with an oath (Heb.6:16-17), that Abraham's seed would get Canaan for "an everlasting possession (Gen.17:8)". Now, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and four further generations NEVER possessed Canaan. Then, from 730 BC and Israel's deportation by Assyria, children were born to the Israelites who did not possess Canaan. This continues till today. Is God a liar that so many SEED of Abraham have not possessed the Land of Canaan? God's Covenant with Abraham was NOT based on "being useful and/or useless for God's purposes". It is based on CIRCUMCISION.

    Then, about 120 years later, Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon deported Judah and Benjamin for 70 years. During those 70 years, children were born to Judeans and Benjaminites. At the end of these 70 years, only 2.5% of these Israelites took up Cyru's offer to return to Canaan. Since then, the SEED of these 97% have been born outside Canaan and have died there. They never possessed this Land. Is God a liar? The Covenant God made with Abraham for this Land did not depend on Israel's behavior. It depends only on circumcision.

    So, you are faced with a simple decision. Abraham, and all his seed via Isaac and Jacob will either be resurrected and returned to this Land, or God is a liar (perish the thought)! And this EXODUS from their GRAVES can only be achieved by RESURRECTION, and their EXODUS from the lands and nations of their dispersion by FREE and COMPELLING transportation. Is God unable to do this? Or is the One Who made 300 billion stars in our Galaxy alone (1 of 100 BILLION known Galaxies), out of nothing, and Who put each one in its place, able to keep His Promises?

    Ezekiel Chapter 37 is so simple. TWO things are required to get every seed of Jacob, "the WHOLE House of Israel" (Ezek.37:11), out of Sheol and into Canaan. The only ones out of the loins of Jacob who are not eligible for this are those who refused circumcision. Any Israelite who refused circumcision is "cut off from his people" - that is, NOT INCLUDED in the Covenant (Gen.17:14). That is why Daniel 12:2 say "many" and not "all".

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    In His Covenant with Abraham, God promised, with an oath (Heb.6:16-17), that Abraham's seed would get Canaan for "an everlasting possession (Gen.17:8)".
    Who exactly is Abrahams Seed, Walls?
    I suggest that you read Galatians 3:16 and then Galatians 3:26-29 and if you still think that the dead Israelites and those living people who call themselves Jews are the sole inheritors of God's Promises, then study these:
    Our Christian heritage; the promises of God:

    Ephesians 1:11-14 In Christ we have been given our share in the heritage, as was decreed in His design …for it was God’s will that we, who were the first to set our hope on Jesus and to praise His glory.
    And, in Christ, you Christians also, once you believed and received the Holy Spirit, the promise of the inheritance that will be ours, when God has redeemed all of His own, to His glory and praise.


    Ephesians 3:6 Through the Gospel, the Gentiles are joint heirs with the Jews, part of the same body, sharers together in the promises made through Jesus.

    Romans 8:16-17 The Spirit of God affirms that we are His children and if children, then also the heirs of God and fellow heirs with Jesus, but we must share His suffering if we are to share His glory.
    Romans 8:19 The Created universe is waiting with eager expectation for God’s sons to be revealed.

    Our greatest heritage as born again Christians is the promise of eternal life. John 3:16,Titus 3:5-7, + But we also inherit the Land promises, Psalms 37:29, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Ezekiel 34:11-31 It is we Christians, from every tribe, race, nation and language, that are the vast multitude seen waving palm branches in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9
    The ones who have passed thru the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal disaster and have earned the white garments by standing firm in our faith. Revelation 7:14

    Note: in Romans 8:19, that God’s children are not yet made known, Jesus will come with His winnowing fork and sift the wheat from the chaff. Matthew 3:12 Those Christians who stood strong in their faith when He comes in fire, Luke 12:49, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, are the wheat that will be gathered into the granary of the holy Land. The chaff of the ungodly peoples will be as ashes under our feet. Isaiah 66:17, Malachi 4:3, 2 Peter 3:7

    Psalms 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the Land and will live there forever.

  9. #39

    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    This will take place in the New Heaven and Earth. First part of that vision Ezekiel is looking at Dry bones, He is looking at things liken to our moon after earth is destroyed. This Earth will not be ever before the Lord.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Who exactly is Abrahams Seed, Walls?
    I suggest that you read Galatians 3:16 and then Galatians 3:26-29 and if you still think that the dead Israelites and those living people who call themselves Jews are the sole inheritors of God's Promises, then study these:
    Our Christian heritage; the promises of God:

    Ephesians 1:11-14 In Christ we have been given our share in the heritage, as was decreed in His design …for it was God’s will that we, who were the first to set our hope on Jesus and to praise His glory.
    And, in Christ, you Christians also, once you believed and received the Holy Spirit, the promise of the inheritance that will be ours, when God has redeemed all of His own, to His glory and praise.


    Ephesians 3:6 Through the Gospel, the Gentiles are joint heirs with the Jews, part of the same body, sharers together in the promises made through Jesus.

    Romans 8:16-17 The Spirit of God affirms that we are His children and if children, then also the heirs of God and fellow heirs with Jesus, but we must share His suffering if we are to share His glory.
    Romans 8:19 The Created universe is waiting with eager expectation for God’s sons to be revealed.

    Our greatest heritage as born again Christians is the promise of eternal life. John 3:16,Titus 3:5-7, + But we also inherit the Land promises, Psalms 37:29, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Ezekiel 34:11-31 It is we Christians, from every tribe, race, nation and language, that are the vast multitude seen waving palm branches in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9
    The ones who have passed thru the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal disaster and have earned the white garments by standing firm in our faith. Revelation 7:14

    Note: in Romans 8:19, that God’s children are not yet made known, Jesus will come with His winnowing fork and sift the wheat from the chaff. Matthew 3:12 Those Christians who stood strong in their faith when He comes in fire, Luke 12:49, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, are the wheat that will be gathered into the granary of the holy Land. The chaff of the ungodly peoples will be as ashes under our feet. Isaiah 66:17, Malachi 4:3, 2 Peter 3:7

    Psalms 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the Land and will live there forever.
    The student of the Bible cannot but note that with Abraham and his seed a Covenant is made. That God confirmed this Covenant with Isaac, and later, Jacob, shows how the seed works. It is the seed that produces people. Normal human copulation produced this seed. Thus, we have a human lineage from Abraham to Christ in the gospel of Matthew, and a human lineage from Adam to Christ in Luke. This makes our Lord Jesus "Seed" of Abraham as Galatians 3:16 tells. The Covenant of Promise regulates who will inherit Canaan, and later, when Abraham had shown remarkable faith in the matter of God's ability to raise the dead, it regulated who would inherit THE WORLD (Rom.4:13). The question now is, since Israel refused the Kingdom of Heaven which was to bring heavenly rule to earth (Matt.6:10), and it is ripped away from them (Matt.21:43), WHO WILL BECOME INHERITORS?

    The problem for us would be immense seeing as our Lord Jesus turned to the Gentiles with the Kingdom of Heaven. How would we make HEIRS out of people who are NOT seed of Abraham? God resolves this magnificently. He allows Christ to go through the whole process of human life, death and resurrection and then adds the whole experience to the Godhead. Thus, our Lord Jesus, once glorified in resurrection, "BECOMES that Spirit that we (Christians or Believers) should receive" (Jn.7:39). But there is another side of this. Our Lord Jesus is the "Last Adam". And just as Adam's bride came forth from inside Adam in order to be "meet", or, "up to his standard", so must the Bride of the Last Adam's also come forth. She must come from INSIDE Him. So in the most simple and straight forward way, the Church has its origin IN Christ, and we, the Church, "... are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones" (Eph.5:30) just as Eve was flesh and bone of Adam.

    And so, because we proceed FROM Christ, and were and are IN Christ, we automatically become eligible for what Christ is eligible for. So the scriptures you offered show how Gentiles, by means of their POSITION IN CHRIST, become Heirs too. You and I do not need copulation to be seed of Abraham. We need to be IN Christ who is an Heir. This is such a refined and all-encompassing way to solve this problem. Thus, Galatians 3:26-29 says;

    26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." This alludes to the rebirth of John 1:12-13. Since this BIRTH is by the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is our Lord Jesus, we possess the attributes of Jesus and can be called "brethren" (Rom.8:29)
    27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." This alludes to the symbolic death of the flesh and the rising in the newness of life (Rom.6:4)
    28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one IN Christ Jesus." The absolute newness of the birth by the Holy Spirit, PLUS the "killing" of the old man of the flesh, SEVER all ties to the past (2nd Cor.5:17). Notice our new position IN Christ.
    29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Our new ORIGIN IN Christ, plus the death of the old SEVERS our Gentile past. We now take up our new position IN Christ and because He is not only AN Heir by birth to Abraham, but THE Heir (Heb.1:2).

    But, as verse 26 says, we are all this BY FAITH. What then of the seed of Abraham who are HEIRS according to Isaac and Jacob's line of the flesh? Galatians CONFIRMS that the Covenant is NOT annulled (Gal.3:17), and because the Law was only 430 years later, the Covenant of Promise does not change just because the Law was broken (Gal.3:18). The Covenant of God's Promise for the Land of Canaan cannot be annulled. So how does Israel, those of Jacob's flesh, get their Promised Land after acting so abominably? The answer is that God gives a Lamb. And this Lamb does not only die for Israel's sin and sins, but the sin and sins of the WHOLE WORLD (Jn.1:29; 1st Jn.2:2). That means that Israel's list of sins is wiped IF GOD SO DECIDES. Christ's death is all encompassing. The proof of this in the resurrection. The wages of sin is DEATH. That means that if one little sin remained, (i) Christ could not be resurrected, and (ii) the rest of men could not be resurrected. But Christ IS resurrected, and by the time of the White Throne all men, both good and evil, are resurrected. So, because of Christ's all-encompassing death, God may judicially have, "... mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth" (Rom.9:18). And this mercy is sen to come to fruition in context of the restoration of Israel in Romans 11:29-32;

    29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." (Israel are called in Abraham and this calling is not rescinded)
    30 "For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:" (Here, we Gentiles received mercy)
    31 "Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy." (Here, Israel, despite unbelief will obtain mercy)
    32 "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." (Here, despite NO FAITH, ALL Israel will obtain mercy)

    Ezekiel Chapter 37 deals with "the whole House of Israel" - those who are seed of Abraham according to the flesh. Galatians 3 deals with the Church - those made seed of Abraham by being IN Christ and their birth by the Holy Spirit.

    It will do us all well to remember AT ALL TIMES; The Covenant of Promise made with Abraham is NOT about salvation from the Lake of Fire and possessing divine life. IT IS A COVENANT ABOUT WHO GETS THE EARTH! Those of Abraham's flesh via Jacob GET CANAAN - a choice corner of the earth where Emmanuel will live. Those of Christ's get to rule the WHOLE EARTH. Israel lose the Kingdom and are ruled by David and the Twelve Apostles - all Christians. But Israel CANNOT lose the Land. It is theirs by Promise.

  11. #41
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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Reese View Post
    This will take place in the New Heaven and Earth. First part of that vision Ezekiel is looking at Dry bones, He is looking at things liken to our moon after earth is destroyed. This Earth will not be ever before the Lord.
    Hi and welcome to the Forum. I hope it profits you much.

    What you probably meant was the "world" is destroyed. The world "world" in the Greek means "the adornment", or, "the orderly arrangement of things". The earth will always remain.

    Psalm 78:69; "And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever."

    Psalm 104:5; "Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever."

    Psalm 119:90; "Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth."

    1st Chronicles 16:30; "Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved."

    Psalm 93:1; "The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved."

    Psalm 96:10; "Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously."

    What is destroyed is the WORKS that adorned the earth. A garment in Parable is one's WORKS (Rev.19:8, etc.) and it is this that will be destroyed. These scriptures speak of this "purging" of the earth.

    Isaiah 51:6; "Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished."

    Psalm 102:25-26; "Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:"

    Hebrews 1:10-12; "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail."

    God bless.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    But Israel CANNOT lose the Land. It is theirs by Promise.
    We Christians ARE the Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16
    Not only that, but the mathematics of genetic inheritance proves that every person alive today has some of Abrahams genes.

    Therefore it is every faithful, born again Christian whom God will 'pour out His Spirit upon', Ezekiel 39:29, as He did with the early Church, Acts 2:18. NOT onto any apostate, godless, LGBT, and Jesus rejecting person.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    We Christians ARE the Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16
    Not only that, but the mathematics of genetic inheritance proves that every person alive today has some of Abrahams genes.

    Therefore it is every faithful, born again Christian whom God will 'pour out His Spirit upon', Ezekiel 39:29, as He did with the early Church, Acts 2:18. NOT onto any apostate, godless, LGBT, and Jesus rejecting person.
    Your appreciation of Galatians 6:14-16 defies the context and the grammar.

    The CONTEXT of Galatians is TWO ANTAGONISTS - (i) The Holy Spirit as the means to sanctification VERSUS (ii) the Law as a means to sanctification. This antagonism is maintained throughout the Book. The IMMEDIATE CONTEXT of Galatians 6:14-16 is again these TWO antagonists. Here it is. Galatians 6:12-16;

    12 "As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
    13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
    14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
    15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
    16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God."


    Verse 12: There are TWO parties, "they" and "you". They are those who "constrain you to have circumcision". The reason? To avoid persecution.
    Verse 13: But, "they" of the circumcision are unable to keep the Law themselves, but want a reason to glory in the flesh (as opposed to the Holy Spirit - see 5:17).
    Verse 14. The OPPOSITE of what "they of the circumcision" want is true. The flesh has no future. It is only good for being nailed to the cross with Jesus (Rom.6:1-5)
    Verse 15. Again the TWO antagonists are pitted against each other; (i) The FLESH with, or without circumcision, and (ii) The New Creature IN Christ (see 2nd Cor.5:17)
    Verse 16. The TWO antagonists are shown again by the CONJUNCTION "and". (i) Those who walk according to "this rule". Which rule? The rule of the New Creature in the previous verse where Law has no place, AND (ii) the Israel of God where Law with circumcision has its place.

    As to your appreciation of Abraham's genes, scripture does no enter into such discussion. It addresses a man of Jacob producing an offspring. This man in turn produces an offspring, and so on. Jacob had four women with which he made his "seed" - the 12 Tribes. Their ethnicity or social standing is moot. It is Jacob's seed that counts as one see in Luke in the Genealogy of Jesus. This genealogy in Luke is played out millions of times and only God knows the "generations". In the genealogy of Luke, or Matthew for that matter, there is no multiplicity of "genetic inheritance". It only matters where the seed comes from. That is what "generation" means - who generated who.

    You are wrong about God pouring His Spirit on Christians only. He poured it on a heathen prophet, Balaam. He poured it on a donkey. He poured it on Israeli men like Samson who had no connection to Christ at all. You will need to go back and settle for yourself the DIFFERENCE between the Holy Spirit "breathed INTO" a disciple of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit poured UPON anybody. Even the Greek words are different "pletho" and "pleroo". One is as water poured INTO a Vessel and one is as a uniform put on the OUTSIDE of something.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Your appreciation of Galatians 6:14-16 defies the context and the grammar.
    The opinion of one who has another agenda to promote.

    Both Jews and Non-Jews Belong Equally to “the Israel of God” Galatians 6:16

    In Galatians 6:16, the apostle Paul concluded his letter to the Galatians with an expression that he didn’t use anywhere else:
    “And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
    Who belongs to this group that Paul refers to as “the Israel of God”? Who is excluded?
    “The Israel of God” must include all who belong to Christ, Jews and non-Jews alike. In Paul’s day, both Jewish and non-Jewish believers were walking according to the rule named in the previous verse: “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation” Galatians 6:15

    If Paul used the expression, “the Israel of God,” to only mean Jewish believers, then the following passages would be untrue:
    [1] “For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him” Romans 10:12
    [2] “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus” Galatians 3:28
    [3] “Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all” Colossians 3:9-11

    If only Jewish believers were “the Israel of God,” but non-Jewish (i.e. Gentile) believers were locked out of this privilege, then there really would be a distinction between Jews and Greeks in Christ. There really would be favoritism and partiality, based on race or ethnicity.

    A similar problem exists when the claim is made that all ethnic Jews are God’s chosen people. There’s no doubt that those who belong to Christ are God’s chosen people, as these passages reveal:
    In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being chosen according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory” Ephesians 1:11-12
    Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do” Colossians 3:12-13
    “But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy” 1 Peter 2:9-10

    Those who teach that all Jews are God’s chosen people sometimes fall back on the idea that God has two chosen peoples (one based on race, and one based on faith). This, however, also makes nonsense of Romans 10:12, Galatians 3:28, and Colossians 3:10-11 (quoted above), for it places Jewish Christians (aka Messianic Jews) into two chosen groups. It says that they are [1] chosen because of faith, and [2] doubly chosen because of race. Meanwhile, according to this view, non-Jewish Christians (aka “Gentile Christians”) are only part of one chosen group. Unlike Jewish Christians, they are only chosen because of faith. They allegedly don’t have the same overlap of blessings that Jewish believers do, because they are not of the Jewish race. This also creates favoritism, partiality, and distinction, contradicting the teachings of Paul. It is promoted mainly by those who like to think they will be ‘raptured to heaven’, while the Jews are tried and tested on earth. This whole idea is unscriptural and can never happen.
    Being a part of the Israel of God is the privilege of all who abide in Christ, because Jesus is true Israel, God’s chosen One.

    God also promised that He would one day make a new covenant with the house of Israel. Jeremiah 31:31-34 This commenced when Paul, in Ephesians 2, declared that the household of God, His holy temple, the one new man of Jews and Gentiles together, was being built on the foundation of the apostles, who were also known as “ministers of the new covenant” 2 Corinthians 3:6

    The Myth of An All Jewish Israel
    There’s an idea prevailing in the Christian Zionist movement today that Israel was, and was always meant to be, exclusively Jewish. This idea is applied to ancient Israel, as if God’s promises made to ancient Israel were for Jews only, then and forever. This idea is also applied to modern Israel, saying that the land belongs only to Jews, etc. However, even in ancient Israel, many non-Jews were joined to Israel.

    Besides the non-Jews who were among Jesus’ ancestors (Matthew 1:1-17), there are numerous other examples. Here are just two:
    And the Egyptians urged the people, that they might send [the children of Israel] out of the land in haste… Then the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides children. A mixed multitude went up with them also…” (Exodus 12:33-38).
    And in every province and city, wherever the king’s command and decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a holiday. Then many of the people of the land became Jews, because fear of the Jews fell upon them” Esther 8:17
    Ever since Jesus was obedient to the point of completing His work on the cross, the Israel of God has everything to do with Him and nothing to do with being outside of Him. People of all nations are included. As Paul taught, no one who is in Christ is any longer “alienated from the commonwealth of Israel.”

    Thomas Schreiner’s Excellent Summary of Galatians 6:16
    Thomas Schreiner offers some excellent thoughts on why Paul’s epistle to the Galatians as a whole mandates that there is no separation between Jewish and non-Jewish (Gentile) believers when Paul speaks of “the Israel of God” (Schreiner is an author and professor at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary):
    The key question in Galatians is whether one must become a Jew and be circumcised to belong to the people of God. Must one receive circumcision to belong to the family of Abraham? The false teachers argued that circumcision and observance of the law were required to be part of Abraham’s family. But Paul has argued throughout the letter that circumcision is unnecessary and that those who put their faith in Christ belong to the family of Abraham. When he speaks of “the Israel of God” at the conclusion of the letter, where he rehearses the major themes of the letter, he is driving home the point that believers in Christ, members of the new creation, are the true Israel.
    Such an interpretation fits with the whole of the letter, for believers in Christ are the true sons of Abraham [Gal. 3:29]. But if they are Abraham’s children and belong to his family, then they belong to the Israel of God. It would be highly confusing to the Galatians, after arguing for the equality of Jew and Gentile in Christ (3:28) and after emphasizing that believers are Abraham’s children, for Paul to argue in the conclusion that only Jews who believe in Jesus belong to the Israel of God. By doing so a wedge would be introduced between Jews and Gentiles at the end of the letter, suggesting that the latter were not part of the true Israel. Such a wedge would play into the hands of his opponents, who would argue that to be part of the true Israel one must be circumcised.
    Instead, Paul confirms one of the major themes of the letter. All believers in Christ are part of the true Israel, part of God’s Israel. This fits with what Paul says elsewhere when he says believers are the true circumcision (Phil 3:3). Since believers in Christ are the true family of Abraham and the true circumcision, they are also part of the true Israel.
    –Thomas Schreiner, Commentary on Galatians, pp. 382 – 383

    Amen. Let’s also not forget that Galatians is where Paul contrasts earthly Jerusalem and the Jerusalem above, saying that one was in bondage and about to be cast out, but the other (“the Jerusalem above”) is free and is the mother of God’s people (Galatians 4:21-31).

    A Question
    Finally, I have a question for those who would insist that Paul was speaking only of Jewish believers when he referred to “the Israel of God.” Paul’s use of this expression implies that there was an Israel during his time that was not of God, which would have been national Israel (as a whole, minus the remnant of believers). It’s often insisted today that modern Israel is a continuation, or a restoration, of national Israel, which was wiped out by the Roman armies in 70 AD. If that (pre-70 AD) Israel was not of God, then why is national Israel today allegedly “God’s chosen people”, “the apple of God’s eye,” a nation that we must bless and support unconditionally, etc.?
    Paul did make a distinction in Galatians 6:16, but it wasn’t between Jewish believers and non-Jewish believers. It was between “the Israel of God,” those who belong to Christ, and the Israel that was not of God, those outside of Christ. The Israel of God today still has everything to do with God’s chosen One, Jesus Christ and His faithful, born again followers.

  15. #45
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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The opinion of one who has another agenda to promote.

    Both Jews and Non-Jews Belong Equally to “the Israel of God” Galatians 6:16

    In Galatians 6:16, the apostle Paul concluded his letter to the Galatians with an expression that he didn’t use anywhere else:
    “And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
    Who belongs to this group that Paul refers to as “the Israel of God”? Who is excluded?
    “The Israel of God” must include all who belong to Christ, Jews and non-Jews alike. In Paul’s day, both Jewish and non-Jewish believers were walking according to the rule named in the previous verse: “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation” Galatians 6:15
    You defy grammar:
    The word "and" is a CONJUNCTION. It joins TWO or more things. Of this word in the Greek the authorities write: "apparently a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force." (Strong's Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.). Thus, your opening statement is already false. You have ASSUMED that the "Israel of God" is the same party as those who keep the "rule of the New Creature". This was the point of my discourse. The word "AND" adds another party. It is CUMULATIVE! "Bread AND butter" - TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! The engine AND the gearbox - TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! "The New Creature AND the Israel of God" - TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

    Next, you defy the inspired record:
    Nowhere in the whole Bible is the Church called "the Israel of God". Nor is the Church EVER called Israel! The Church is one thing - "the GATHERING of the called-out ones", and Israel the sum of the 12 Tribes - NOW SCATTERED! Peter, a BELIEVER addresses UNBELIEVERS in Acts 2:22 as "ye men of Israel". There are NO BELIEVERS IN ISRAEL. God has concluded ALL Israel in UNBELIEF (Rom.11:32). If an Israelite BELIEVES he is made a New Creature and his past is wiped out (2nd Cor.5:17). In the Church are NO Israelites (Gal.3:28; Col.3:11). Your theory annuls scripture - or rather, your theory is annulled by scripture. You, like Nicodemus, set the birth by the FLESH above the birth by the SPIRIT. While scripture DENIES the existence of Jews and Gentiles in the Church, you uphold it. Scripture speaks of those IN Christ as a New Man. You make the New Man Israel OF OLD.

    You set before the young Christian false doctrine in that you make those of Jacob's FLESH, who persecuted the Church, the Church. What was Saul the Pharisee when he killed Christians? - an Israelite! Who persecuted the Church in Jerusalem? Israelites! Who forbade the disciples of Jesus to preach Christ and His gospel? Israelites! Who wanted to kill Paul when he was converted? ISRAELITES! That the Church and Israel are two different parties is written IN BLOOD.

    The commentary you use as reference uses unscriptural terms. Israel REFUSED Christ. Israel murdered Christ. Israel REFUSED Christ's disciples. Israel murdered Christ's disciples. Israel REFUSED the gospel and forbade it. Israel are ALL in unbelief - and this, not by man's decree, BUT BY GOD (Rom.11:26, 32).

    You mingle those born of the flesh with those born of the Holy Spirit. You make Israel believers and believers Israel. You propose a MINGLING of the those of the FLESH and those of the Holy Spirit. But scripture says that they are MORTAL ENEMIES. They are "CONTRARY" (Gal.5:17). In Genesis 34:7 the "sons of Jacob" are Israel. In John 1:12-13 the Church are the "sons of God". One born by the "will of the flesh" with FOUR women, and the other born, "... not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:13).

    Need we to study your source further? If the premise is false the whole argument is false.

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